Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

srai · Post by **srai** » 04 Nov 2017 03:32

^^^
Even Israelis aren't allowed to replace the radars on their US planes with their own. There are quite a bit of restrictions on what they can do to their US platforms.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 04 Nov 2017 03:42

Some of those restrictions also have to do with the fact that they are being fully or partially funded by the US taxpayer. If Israel was buying those F-16's with its own money it would have more flexibility of integrating with the existing F-16 supply chain as is the case with most other systems. They would do it out of their own pocket and on their time.

Playing devil's advocate, how does israel work it out? It heavily relies on US for platforms like F16, F15, & F35, but it does make radars and weapons

A lot of Israel's domestic weapons are integrated on their F-16 and F-15s and will be on the F-35. On the former they have found ways of doing this affordability by integrating their own products, processors and other mission systems to make integration and upgrades easier. Some of them are actually part of the overall F-16 global chain and are exported (Singapore for example).

LINK

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 04 Nov 2017 17:55

SAAW glide bomb tested thrice successfully at Chandipur to 70+km! Great news.What is the weight though? Aircraft that can carry it?

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 04 Nov 2017 18:02

kurup‏ @kurup89 21h21 hours ago
More
Nirbhay test scheduled between 7 to 9 Nov 17

Anyone heard anything about this?

kurup · Post by **kurup** » 04 Nov 2017 18:38

Nirbhay test b/w 7 to 9

kurup · Post by **kurup** » 04 Nov 2017 19:08

Firing from Naval Ships on 06 Nov

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 05 Nov 2017 08:10

http://alert5.com/2017/11/05/india-read ... this-week/

Indian scientists and engineers are busying preparing for the upcoming test of the indigenous Nirbhay cruise missile this week.

nirbhay
Photo: DRDO

The launch window is from Nov. 7-9. For this test, the Nirbhay will be switched to a turbojet engine instead of the usual turbofan.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 05 Nov 2017 09:15

What is being tested on the west coast .Ship launched nirbhay? I think for nirbhay an indigenous turbojet is better short term answer while we develop turbofans

Ashokk · Post by **Ashokk** » 05 Nov 2017 15:13

India's homegrown Nirbhay cruise missile ready for fifth trial
By Hemant Kumar Rout

BHUBANESWAR: After two consecutive failures, the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is gearing up for a fresh experimental trial of India’s first home-grown subsonic cruise missile Nirbhay with a hope that the weapon system this time will not let them down.

Hectic preparations are underway at the Integrated Test Range (ITR) off Odisha coast as the missile has been scheduled for the test next week. It will be fifth launch of the missile in the last five years.

“The launch window has been set for November 7 to 9. Final checks of the missile sub-systems are on and hopefully the missile will be ready for test in next two days. A team of experts are monitoring the launch preparations. We are planning for the launch on Tuesday,” said an official associated with the project.

Once powered by a turbofan engine, Nirbhay will be tested using a turbojet engine for the first time. DRDO scientists are expecting a success this time as wing deployment and navigation software problems, detected during the pre-launch check-ups in May which led to its postponement, seem to have been rectified.

Of four tests so far, three have been failed as the missile had achieved partial success during the second test in 2014. The first test flight conducted on March 12, 2013, was an utter failure as the missile crashed only after 20 minutes of flight and its remnants fell in an orchard in Jagatsinghpur district, about 150 km from the launch site.

Nirbhay’s last trial conducted on December 21, 2016, was aborted midway as the missile changed its course. The missile project was mired in controversy after ‘The Express’ raised doubts on its outcome prior to third and fourth trials since it was pushed for test with faults in the flight control and navigation software.

The six-metre long two-stage missile can strike a target 1,000 km away. With a diameter of 0.52 metres and wing span of 2.7 metres, it weighs around 1,500 kg and can carry warheads up to 200 kg. Comparable with America’s Tomahawk missile as far as the stealth capability, it can cruise at a speed of Mach 0.8.

Nirbhay blasts off like a rocket and unlike a missile it turns into a vehicle akin an aircraft. Flying at tree-top level it can deceive enemy radars making it difficult to be detected. Designed by Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE) and launched in 2004, the project is on an 18-month extension which expires in June 2018.

sum · Post by **sum** » 05 Nov 2017 16:21

Whats the significance of this "sudden" engine change?

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 05 Nov 2017 17:17

sum wrote:Whats the significance of this "sudden" engine change?

Is it an Indian engine or imported, that will define the significance of the change. We don't know the origin as yet.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 05 Nov 2017 17:49

Who cares as long as it hits the target! After all EVERY indian aircraft flies with a firang engine...

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 05 Nov 2017 20:08

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqT0BvqpHy8&html5=1

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 05 Nov 2017 20:12

More info from Livefist
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/03 ... vs-up.html

d_berwal · Post by **d_berwal** » 05 Nov 2017 20:54

sum wrote:Whats the significance of this "sudden" engine change?

this is the significance http://www.poeirjets.com

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 05 Nov 2017 22:22

shiv wrote:More info from Livefist
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/03 ... vs-up.html

This engine was displayed (I think) at Aero Indian 2011 as the "Laghu Shakti" engine. It features a blisk - I have a photo somewhere. Will post tomorrow.

krishna_krishna · Post by **krishna_krishna** » 06 Nov 2017 03:17

shiv wrote:
shiv wrote:More info from Livefist
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/03 ... vs-up.html
This engine was displayed (I think) at Aero Indian 2011 as the "Laghu Shakti" engine. It features a blisk - I have a photo somewhere. Will post tomorrow.

I am confused HK Rout mentions it will be designed TURBOJET, however the article from Livefist states MANIK TURBOFAN. So does that mean we have now two distinct designs :

1) TURBBOJET = Laghu shakti
2) TURBOFAN = Manik ???

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 06 Nov 2017 04:05

Not guesswork:
1. They have run out of the Russian turbofan engines
2. Manik = Laghu Shakti is a turbofan

Guesswork:
1. They are going to continue tests with HAL's PTAE-7 Turbojets (that power the lakshya).

krishna_krishna · Post by **krishna_krishna** » 06 Nov 2017 04:54

Indranil wrote:Not guesswork:
1. They have run out of the Russian turbofan engines
2. Manik = Laghu Shakti is a turbofan

Guesswork:
1. They are going to continue tests with HAL's PTAE-7 Turbojets (that power the lakshya).

Thanks for the information, however still not make sense if we have turbofan ready why not test it. May be turbofan is not proven yet and lakshya engine is, hence would be tested with turbofan when maal is ready. For now since project is of much deserved critical importance, they are going with whatever they have in hand right now, performance wise turbofan would be improvement only over current version atleast we have uber critical wea. ready for all the three services

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Nov 2017 10:18

KK, Turbofan is not ready. Hence the turbojet to proof the missile.

They had a success oriented program and did not import extra engines. The many test failures brought them to this stage.

Hope Manik comes through.

But GTRE track record not too much to depend on.
Manic depression.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Nov 2017 10:19

Parrikar wanted successful flight or else shut down.
Hence this turbojet powered flight.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Nov 2017 10:21

Should have done early flights with turbojet and then switched to turbofans.
ADE is not good at derisking.
Nor DRDO reviwers or above who sit on those panels.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 06 Nov 2017 10:40

kurup wrote:Firing from Naval Ships on 06 Nov

Any update on this and what is it, Nirbhay fired from Ship?, Brahmos fired from IN ship or submarine, Sm-39 fired from INS Kalavari?

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 06 Nov 2017 10:41

195 KM is too low for Nirbhay and BrahMos no?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 06 Nov 2017 10:49

Nirbhay in Anti ship mode flying in loops or Brahmos in sea skimming mode?

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 06 Nov 2017 10:58

Too early in the day to be testing Nirbhay for anti ship for such a short range. BrahMos may be in lo-lo-lo.

Chinmay · Post by **Chinmay** » 06 Nov 2017 11:07

Sub-launched Exocets or Klubs?

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 06 Nov 2017 11:47

shiv wrote:More info from Livefist
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/03 ... vs-up.html

From this. MoD's response to query by Parliamentary committee on defense.

“The existing Fan & Compressor Test Facility at Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) has inadequate capacity and has become obsolete. To carry out testing of Fan & Compressor for existing and future generation gas turbine engine programmes of GTRE, it is essential to have a dedicated Fan & Compressor test facility at GTRE. GTRE is working out the budgetary cost of this facility to be established ‘on turnkey basis’ with an objective to initiate EPC approval by end of Oct 2016.”

“The design improvement and validation of aero engine components and modules through testing is a continuous activity to enhance and demonstrate engine performance and reliability. At present, only limited aerodynamic and structural testing can be conducted within the country. Hence, the required component testing facilities at an estimated cost of Rs.1330 crore are planned to be established by DRDO at Rajanakunte, Bengaluru for development of Ghatak engine and all future generation aero engines.”

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 06 Nov 2017 11:57

I have not seen any news on Stand-off Anti-tank Guided Missile (SANT), which is mentioned in the list as ongoing project in Parliamentary report on defense. Any idea on this, anyone..?

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 06 Nov 2017 12:03

Its Nirbhay onlee.

@ANI

Test of Nirbhay missile (India's first home-grown, long range, subsonic cruise missile) will be next week: DRDO Chairman S Christopher
8:29 AM - 5 Nov 2017

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 06 Nov 2017 12:44

Sjha posted a few days back that the eng for Nirbhay to be tested is Indian and it will be tested in Oct. It seems this is the same test we are going to see now.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 06 Nov 2017 21:37

Let's hope it is successful this time round.The contrast between the BMos and Nirbhay programmes is v.painful.
The BMos "mantra" for success as spelt out by Dr.Pillai is something that our project heads should emulate.

Ashokk · Post by **Ashokk** » 06 Nov 2017 23:28

Philip wrote:Let's hope it is successful this time round.The contrast between the BMos and Nirbhay programmes is v.painful.
The BMos "mantra" for success as spelt out by Dr.Pillai is something that our project heads should emulate.

Brahmos is based on a proven design (3M55), with Nirbhay we are starting from a scratch so it is expected that we will face challenges which will need to be overcome with sheer grit. Even with the 3M55, the development started in 1981 and the first test was held in 1997. Having said that, at least from the news reports it seems that there are things which could have been better managed with the Nirbhay.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 06 Nov 2017 23:58

With regards to SAAW, there were reports (idrw) about its high accuracy. Similar quotes were also there for high accuracy for glide bombs (Garuda/Garuthama). What is the applicability of these learnings to our fighter based nuclear delivery? I understand that nuclear weapons being area weapons(esp the high yield ones) dont require high accuracy. However, high accuracy would reduce yield requirements, and obviate the need for multiple strikes

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Nov 2017 00:55

Such low-velocity bombs can get shot down with SAM. Not good idea.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 07 Nov 2017 02:36

ArjunPandit wrote:With regards to SAAW, there were reports (idrw) about its high accuracy. Similar quotes were also there for high accuracy for glide bombs (Garuda/Garuthama). What is the applicability of these learnings to our fighter based nuclear delivery? I understand that nuclear weapons being area weapons(esp the high yield ones) dont require high accuracy. However, high accuracy would reduce yield requirements, and obviate the need for multiple strikes

Fixed structures or slow moving clustered formations.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 07 Nov 2017 03:02

Cybaru wrote: Fixed structures or slow moving clustered formations.

Not very clear sir

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 07 Nov 2017 05:03

ramana wrote:Such low-velocity bombs can get shot down with SAM. Not good idea.

They've advantages too in that respect. An unpowered bomb dropped 'over-the-shoulder' is very difficult to intercept. Best they can do is go after the aircraft on it's egress. A 'powered' missile, despite some obvious advantages, will be bigger and have heat-signature. This does make it slightly easier to track and destroy. This role is better fulfilled by a cruise missile which combines the missile and aircraft into one with added stealth.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 07 Nov 2017 05:12

Philip wrote:Let's hope it is successful this time round.The contrast between the BMos and Nirbhay programmes is v.painful.
The BMos "mantra" for success as spelt out by Dr.Pillai is something that our project heads should emulate.

Just saying that Oniks on which the Brahmos is largely based on took close to 20 years to develop. And these are Russia's official numbers. Sanctioned in 83 and operationalized around 2003.

We need to get permission to change the lettering from Russian to English on the Brahmos. The technology for critical parts was never on the table, and therefore never given.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 07 Nov 2017 05:21

I hope we've more input in Brahmos NG, which with a smaller diameter engine could be a game-changer. We could learn something in the process for future Astra.