Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 Feb 2018 20:49

hnair wrote: Adorable little wheels on that tractor.

There is something really odd about those small wheels. The wheel bay is as big as the wheelbay for the large wheel. In some other image I recall seeing what looked like hydraulic actuators of some sort that could (possibly) cause the entire platform to be raised - allowing far greater up and down "play" for the small wheels giving them some rough road capability. A "drive by wire" capability using wheel position sensors to raise and lower individual wheels and slow speed (say 2 kmph) could allow movement through some fairly rough roads. I don't know if such a thing exists at all.

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 17 Feb 2018 21:14

The mid section looks like is from the rail mobile wagon, and the wheel bogies have been replaced with hydraulic systems for road, maybe can be used for transferring between rail and road without cranes.

Those wheels are using soft tread, even if we stick to COTS a hard tread is preferred.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 18 Feb 2018 00:33

This is not a TEL.

Our road mobile trailers are derived from COTS modular ODC carriers. each of those wheels are pneumatically suspended and steerable, so that the entire platform can shift if required. There having small wheels is a virtue.

These platforms are modular, i.e. you can attach them end to end or side to side and so on. In the case of AGni 3 trailer, they are three parts. Two platforms are connected through a bridge and forms the bed for the missile. The prime mover forms the third part.

What you see in this old video, is that the front platform and the prime mover replaced by a self propelled platform. You can see that it has one extra line of wheels in the front. This system is not cross-country or even cross-road transport. It is like the APU on 155mm howitzer. It just helps in limited mobility. In some ways, it is a different kind of capabilities. For example, in confined spaces the whole thing can shift laterally or rotate 360 degrees in a very precise manner. Obviously this is very difficult using a prime mover-trailer system.

Hakeem, you are right: this video is from the time Agni 3 was made part of the RD parade. As you might remember, when it rolled down Rajpath, you saw the regular prime mover trailer set up.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 18 Feb 2018 06:25

Its a crude build by DRDO, using a railway wagon chasis with small road wheels
Those wheels are high tech. Germany makes similar wheels which rotate about in several axes providing very good stabilization
In its current form, this is only good for bringing out the missile out of a bunker or shed

Indias defence labs do come up with very cute finishes, like this scary looking cabin on front

See this video of the 2010 R day parade when this was displayed. Start watching at 1:40 or so

https://youtu.be/CVARtNhVbEk

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Feb 2018 07:38

there are plenty of oversized cargo moving around on NHs. like very large diameter chemical reaction vessels or pipes and very long windmill blades.

typical trusty old Nammakal transport . the blades are very long, longer than Agni5 I think.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 18 Feb 2018 10:27

Singha sir, those trailers for Agni are very high tech. The trailer has very stringent requirements on vibration etc.

Gagan Sir, this one is actually made by a private sector company, a leading one at that. They have more than 80% market share of ODC movers in India. In fact, they export. The following picture shows the hydraulic arms that swivel a pair of wheels.

And they are like this world wide.

And that is not a railway chassis. It is just one girder on each side for rigidity.

One would be surprised to how much mobility these things provide. For example, you can make out that the Arjun carrier did not dirty like that by moving on pucca roads.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 18 Feb 2018 11:37

Indranil ji,
No sir for me please!
Those American and Roosi missile carriers look so functional. They are now refined versions, but must have started out looking like this.

L Ram · Post by **L Ram** » 18 Feb 2018 11:43

Singha wrote:there are plenty of oversized cargo moving around on NHs. like very large diameter chemical reaction vessels or pipes and very long windmill blades.

typical trusty old Nammakal transport . the blades are very long, longer than Agni5 I think.

I have worked with Enercon and Suzlon. they are into wind mill business. typical wind mill blade length or latest model wind mill is 24 Meter for Enercon E48 model 26.5 Meter E53 Model and for Suzlon it is 28 Meter. we have Transported them from Daman and Vapi in Gujrat to the remotest hilly villages in Western ghats.

Agni missiles are shorter in length when compared to wind mill blades. so it should not be a problem in moving them in remote areas.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 18 Feb 2018 12:05

LRam ji
Those Roosi MZKT TELs with those big huge wheels are fully off road capable and can do like 40-60 kmph, while securely lugging a big huge missile

https://youtu.be/JzB7ksdFNXo

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 18 Feb 2018 17:13

L Ram wrote: Agni missiles are shorter in length when compared to wind mill blades. so it should not be a problem in moving them in remote areas.

Wouldn't the missiles be a lot more sensitive though, with much more protection required while transporting?

prasannasimha · Post by **prasannasimha** » 18 Feb 2018 17:55

The real issue is the weight - an Agni will weigh much more than a windmill blade isn't it? F=ma will rule

L Ram · Post by **L Ram** » 18 Feb 2018 19:51

Bart S wrote:
L Ram wrote: Agni missiles are shorter in length when compared to wind mill blades. so it should not be a problem in moving them in remote areas.
Wouldn't the missiles be a lot more sensitive though, with much more protection required while transporting?

wind mill blade is made with FRP and in aerofoil shape. blades are more sensitive. even a small scratch can effect the power output. i think missiles are more rugged and easy to transport compared to wind mill blades. Coming to weight wind mill machine it self weighs 45 tons(excluding blades)and we have transported the same through remote villages. one such site is Vanivilassagara hills near Chitradurga. see the actual project photo to get an idea of the terrain we have moved the wind mill machines and blades.
https://www.tripadvisor.in/LocationPhot ... ataka.html

I think there should not be any problem weight wise also for transportation of Agni missiles

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 18 Feb 2018 20:53

^^^

There is a mix up of the self propelled fully articulated trailer that Gagan posted with an all terrain Transporter Erector Launcher, the former can maneuver in confined spaces like tunnels, and can be towed by the truck tractor over longer distances. In both cases I believe no external cranes are involved.

OT question, what are the plans for Offshore wind turbines?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 18 Feb 2018 23:44

Coming Soon On Livefist

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/964870065744240640 --> A status check on India’s Akash missile project, including new details on the Akash NG & Akash-2, foreign interest in the weapon system and more.

Jits · Post by **Jits** » 19 Feb 2018 17:03

L Ram wrote:
Bart S wrote:
Wouldn't the missiles be a lot more sensitive though, with much more protection required while transporting?
wind mill blade is made with FRP and in aerofoil shape. blades are more sensitive. even a small scratch can effect the power output. i think missiles are more rugged and easy to transport compared to wind mill blades. Coming to weight wind mill machine it self weighs 45 tons(excluding blades)and we have transported the same through remote villages. one such site is Vanivilassagara hills near Chitradurga. see the actual project photo to get an idea of the terrain we have moved the wind mill machines and blades.
https://www.tripadvisor.in/LocationPhot ... ataka.html

I think there should not be any problem weight wise also for transportation of Agni missiles

It's not the questions of being able to transport to remote regions, of-course agni missiles can be transported even with this TEL, but they have to move undetected from not only eyes above the sky but also from human intelligence assets of enemy. If such strategic missiles are detected during war-time they could become vulnerable to first strike. Their survivability on the ground is as important as their performance in the air.

Prithwiraj · Post by **Prithwiraj** » 19 Feb 2018 17:43

Why underground silos are not an option

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 19 Feb 2018 18:39

Prithwiraj wrote:Why underground silos are not an option

Pretty hard for us to protect from preemptive strike. Perhaps the only country where it is feasible is Russia where they can be located deep in Siberia well out of reach of any manned attack or precision standoff weapons. Even Russia has moved away to more agile platforms though.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Feb 2018 22:58

Prithwiraj wrote:Why underground silos are not an option

With satellite imaging and GPS guidance those are fixed targets and can be destroyed.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 20 Feb 2018 05:25

We have 2 mountain chains along our two coastlines, western and eastern ghats, plus horizontal ranges in central India.Then there are the Himalayan ranges in the north and n-east too.Enough opportunities to conceal mobile ICBMs.

L Ram · Post by **L Ram** » 20 Feb 2018 10:33

Jits wrote:It's not the questions of being able to transport to remote regions, of-course agni missiles can be transported even with this TEL, but they have to move undetected from not only eyes above the sky but also from human intelligence assets of enemy. If such strategic missiles are detected during war-time they could become vulnerable to first strike. Their survivability on the ground is as important as their performance in the air.

My point is that these TEL's can be concealed as Automobile carriers, just like the Agni's on railway wagons. We have enough roads passing through dense forests.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Feb 2018 11:16

Agony 2 tested
https://twitter.com/timesofindia/status ... 2994673664

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 20 Feb 2018 12:31

Now Agni II launches are being treated like Prithvi launches here.

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 20 Feb 2018 12:52

shiv wrote:Agony 2 tested
https://twitter.com/timesofindia/status ... 2994673664

Looks like obfuscation.. NOTAM was for 1500KM..

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 20 Feb 2018 12:56

Aditya_V wrote:Now Agni II launches are being treated like Prithvi launches here.

Wonderful

It is routine test. When 10 K WALA is tested. We will have lungi dance.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 20 Feb 2018 13:03

Not too long ago the Iranians showed us a pic of a massive UG cavern filled with BMs on their tracked launchers. With our long experience at tunneling for dams,railways,etc., it isn't beyond speculation that we may have some similar locations spread out across the country which can withstand a first strike even if located. Remember the Sov. N-sub base in the Crimea which was under a mountain became a tourist attraction and was on TopGear? It had two entrances,a gently curved canal for subs,could accommodate heaps and had two entrances. I amsure that the Russians will put it to good use now that they've reabsorbed the Crimea. WE could even have several dummy launchers to deceive the enemy.The Serbs did a great job of deceiving NATO aircraft with dummy tanks,etc.They used to place fires beneath the dummies so that they would register on the neat sensors of the aircraft too. In the entire Balkans War the damage to Serb armour was minimal.NATO according to one western report I posted aeons ago,said that they hit "everything".cars,buses,tractors,railway trains, carts,even hearses,you name it ,except Serb armour!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Feb 2018 00:52

Philip All that looks impressive to those who don't have precision strike capability.

Even a good conventional payload will block the tunnel entrance.

Meantime money is wasted on digging caverns.

Better get more missiles.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 22 Feb 2018 01:28

https://twitter.com/sjha1618/status/966376589670912005 ---> Meanwhile, according to DRDO, the Indian Air Force may be interested in acquiring some forty Nirbhay cruise missiles.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Feb 2018 01:39

Interesting detalis of Prithvi launch.

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/ ... ssion=true

sum · Post by **sum** » 22 Feb 2018 08:47

Whats the special requirement for a night trial?

Also has the SFC ever testfired from anywhere except ITR? Is it assumed that in actual combat, it would be fired from ITR since there has never been any testing from any non DRDO location?

prasannasimha · Post by **prasannasimha** » 22 Feb 2018 09:38

All these launches and more so Agni 2 are I feel a reason to raise NOTAM's as silent warnings to lizard. Indian ships around Maldives and missiles coming as they want to steer through Malacca straits. Silent message. I don't need to launch from ITR to cover IOR

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Feb 2018 14:14

sum wrote:Whats the special requirement for a night trial?

Also has the SFC ever testfired from anywhere except ITR? Is it assumed that in actual combat, it would be fired from ITR since there has never been any testing from any non DRDO location?

With night launch the missile will think it is being launched from Kalam Island even if it is phyrred from somewhere else, guaranteeing success.

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 22 Feb 2018 15:05

sum wrote:Whats the special requirement for a night trial?

Also has the SFC ever testfired from anywhere except ITR? Is it assumed that in actual combat, it would be fired from ITR since there has never been any testing from any non DRDO location?

That's precisely why we are making longer and longer range ICBMs. Because then we can fire anywhere in the world from ITR itself. Why go anywhere else when we will have Agni VI, hya ji..? That has always been the estretijic pilan all along by evil SDREs....

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 22 Feb 2018 17:40

^not really.
this is to test the night vision goggles on the missile

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Feb 2018 18:05

prasannasimha wrote:All these launches and more so Agni 2 are I feel a reason to raise NOTAM's as silent warnings to lizard. Indian ships around Maldives and missiles coming as they want to steer through Malacca straits. Silent message. I don't need to launch from ITR to cover IOR

Actually these NOTAMs attract spy ships/subs and discourage others. There is one story of an Indian Foxtrot sitting right in a designated NOTAM area of a friendly neighbour and going through a hairy experience ("Foxtrots of the Indian Navy" by Commodore Franklin)

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 22 Feb 2018 19:17

^shiv any way by which you can share the hairy experience mentioned?

this one?
https://www.deccanchronicle.com/150725/ ... -submarine

prasannasimha · Post by **prasannasimha** » 22 Feb 2018 19:17

^^ of course but they also send a message that we are here

kurup · Post by **kurup** » 22 Feb 2018 19:19

Sea to Sea Missile test on 23/24 ...... range 350 km ..... most probably Dhanush

https://twitter.com/kurup89/status/966133600851673090

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Feb 2018 20:03

AdityaM wrote:^shiv any way by which you can share the hairy experience mentioned?

this one?
https://www.deccanchronicle.com/150725/ ... -submarine

I think this was an encounter with a US nuclear sub - the sub finally sped away at such speed that it could only have been a US nuclear sub.

I can't remember the other NOTAM incident details - need to look it up. I don't think it was the same one - but I may be confusing the details. That is a very good book worth reading. I recommend everyone to buy a copy.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 22 Feb 2018 20:32

kurup wrote:Sea to Sea Missile test on 23/24 ...... range 350 km ..... most probably Dhanush

https://twitter.com/kurup89/status/966133600851673090

Alternatively, pontoon launch or Brahmos-A launch would also be offshore.

prasannasimha · Post by **prasannasimha** » 22 Feb 2018 21:06

^^^ better than screeching global times article isn't it.