Bharat Rakshak Forum Announcement

Hello Everyone,

A warm welcome back to the Bharat Rakshak Forum.

Important Notice: Due to a corruption in the BR forum database we regret to announce that data records relating to some of our registered users have been lost. We estimate approx. 500 user details are deleted.

To ease the process of recreating the user IDs we request members that have previously posted on the BR forums to recognise and identify their posts, once the posts are identified please contact the BRF moderator team by emailing BRF Mod Team with your post details.

The mod team will be able to update your username, email etc. so that the user history can be maintained.

Unfortunately for members that have never posted or have had all their posts deleted i.e. users that have 0 posts, we will be unable to recreate your account hence we request that you re-register again.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused and thank you for your understanding.

Regards,
Seetal

Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34006
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby shiv » 30 Nov 2017 18:52

If the Brahmos seeker does not seek a specific ship from a group - it's still not bad. The missile is deadly and a salvo of 3-4 missiles should be used to take out half a naval flotilla and send what's left impotent and heading home.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 48147
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 30 Nov 2017 20:37

shiv wrote:
srai wrote:^^^
AShM are programmed to go for the biggest signature -- largest ship -- if they have multiple targets to chose from.

Any reliable source for this information? I cannot recall having read or heard this anywhere. In fact this would make spoofing easier by enhancing the signature of smaller ships - whatever this "signature" is supposed to be.

The idea that it will simply go and hit the largest visible ship makes it a fairly dumb missile. I am not at all sure that this is true.



Early Styx missiles radar fuze would select the largest signature in a convoy.
The Israelis introduced chaff rockets to confuse the seeker. Essentially a burst of tin foil to saturate the sensor.


Indian improvements to Styx were to go after the first detected big signature.

I got this from Norman Palomar book on World navies. The chapter on anti-ship missiles was written by a retired IN captain settled in Washington DC. He had worked on improving the Styx guidance packages. And said the Russian also adopted some of the improvements.

Vips
BRFite
Posts: 263
Joined: 14 Apr 2017 18:23

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Vips » 30 Nov 2017 21:26

In Love With Rocket Science: The Story of Tessy Thomas, India’s Missile Woman.

She could have been an IAS officer; she even wrote the exam. But an interview with the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) happened. She got through and was asked to join immediately. Today, she is hailed as the ‘Missile Woman of India’ and ‘Agniputri ‘(one born of fire) after the deadly projectiles she has helped develop.

The first woman to head an Indian missile project, Tessy Thomas has decisively broken the glass ceiling to make her mark in a traditionally male bastion. Having stood out ever since she joined the DRDO in 1988, she has played a pivotal role in India’s missile development programme, particularly in the making of its long-range nuclear-capable ballistic missile, the Agni-V.

orn in Kerala’s beautiful Allapuzha district to an IFS officer father and homemaker mother, Tessy’s first introduction to the amazing world of missiles came in her childhood, thanks to the Thumba rocket launching station that was not far from the area where her family lived. This exposure sparked her imagination and a passion for scientific research that would only grow stronger with time.

Carefully nurtured by her mother, Tessy’s interest in solid state physics took shape during her school days. After completing her engineering from Thrissur college, Tessy (named after Mother Teresa) chose to do what she had always dreamt of doing — pursue research in the field of missile technology.

At the age of 20, she joined Pune’s Institute of Armament Technology to pursue a masters degree in guided missile technology. It was there the budding scientist met her future husband, Saroj Kumar Patel, now a commodore in the Indian Navy.

Tessy followed this up with an MBA in Operations Management and a PhD in Missile Guidance before joining DRDO in 1988. Here, she worked under her revered role model, APJ Abdul Kalam, who placed her in the Agni missile programme. And there has been no looking back for her ever since.

Unwaveringly focused and extremely hardworking, Tessy was soon blazing a trail in DRDO’s weapons programme. And in a little more than two decades, she had reached a career milestone that would go on to be one of the most cherished moments of her life — the successful launch of the Agni-V missile from Odisha’s Wheeler Island in 2012.

An expert on solid propellant systems, Tessy’s contributions were crucial in developing the Agni-V’s multiple targetable re-entry vehicle. This was what helped the intercontinental ballistic missile withstand tremendous velocity and temperature of 3,000 degrees Celsius on re-entering the atmosphere.

Not that the journey to Agni-V’s thundering success was an easy one. At every step, Tess was greeted by failures and disappointments but she took it as an opportunity to rethink, rework and improve the current model.

For instance, in July 2006, a missile failed to meet desired parameters and the team had to face a lot of criticism. But stoic and steely-nerved Tessy took it as a challenge, working 12 to 16 hours a day, even on weekends. Unsurprisingly, within just ten months, the faults were efficiently ironed out to turn the failure into another success.

ll this while Tessy tried her best to walk the tight-rope as a homemaker and a defence scientist. Immensely dedicated to her work, she never hesitated to make sacrifices on the home front, at times even leaving her unwell son Tejas behind for a missile launch.

In a glowing tribute in 2008, The Indian Woman Scientist’s Association said,We feel Tessy Thomas serves as a role model and an inspiration for women scientists to achieve their dreams and have their feet planted in both worlds successfully.”

In several interviews, she has thanked her parents, in-laws, husband and son for their unconditional support and encouragement, be it in her inter-religious marriage or her missile research. And yes, her son Tejas shares his name with India’s first homegrown Light Combat Aircraft (also developed by DRDO). Actually, its an anagram of his mother and father’s names!

Today, Tessy is one of India’s leading experts in ballistic missiles. The recipient of Doctor of Science (Honoris Causa) from five different Universities, this brilliant woman is also a fellow of various professional institutes — Indian National Academy of Engineering (INAE), Institution of Engineers-India (IEI), Tata Administrative Service (TAS).

Tessy has also received several prestigious awards — including the DRDO Scientist of the year in 2008, DRDO Performance Excellence Award for 2011 and 2012, India Today Women of the year in 2009, Lal Bahadur Shastri National Award for Excellence in Public Administration in 2012, CNN-IBN Indian of the Year 2012, Sir Mokshagundam Visvesvaraya Award in 2016 and Outstanding Woman Achiever Award by Women in Science and Engineering (WISE).

Recently, after NITI Aayog’s tweet about Tessy’s speech at Global Entrepreneurship Summit (GES 2017) went viral, Mahindra Group Chairman Anand Mahindra said, “Tessy deserves to be more famous Tessy deserves to be more famous than the biggest Bollywood star. A poster of Tessy in every Indian school will wreck stereotypes and create enormous career aspirations for girls.”

We completely agree.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 14628
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 30 Nov 2017 21:34

Zynda wrote:Karan, does Astra posses Home on Jam capability?


It might but it has not been publicly mentioned.
Given DRDL is also working on NGARM, I dont see why they wouldn't be able to implement it for Astra. AMRAAM has a HOJ capability mentioned.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 48147
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 30 Nov 2017 22:29

Nice bio but has inconsistencies due to the writer/editor not proof checking.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 48147
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 30 Nov 2017 22:32

DRDO tries to get the best of the best features all in one.
This leads to long development times and not much accolades as all those features are advertised so much that realization is not appreciated.

For example all those brochure features are not available even if good money (gold) is paid due to many arms exports limitations.
But detractors/chatterrati talk as if its all available in the market.

prasannasimha
Forum Moderator
Posts: 522
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 00:22

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby prasannasimha » 01 Dec 2017 08:47

http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/ ... 714491.amp


BHUBANESWAR: Months after the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) raised doubts on the quality of Surface-to-Air Missile Akash, Indian Air Force (IAF) successfully test-fired two rounds of the missile from a defence base off the Odisha coast on Wednesday. The missiles were fired against electronic targets.
Defence sources said, the complete Akash missile system including targets were operated by IAF personnel exploiting the overall capabilities of the system in different envelops. The missiles were fired from the launching complex-III of the Integrated Test Range (ITR) at Chandipur-on-sea.

“All the mission objectives have been met and the missile system had performed as expected. The entire flight of both the missiles was captured by electro-optical tracking systems. The flight path was smooth while its ceiling and speed were perfect,” said a defence official.This was third successful test of the indigenously developed missile in the last two days. On Tuesday, a similar trial was conducted from the same test facility. While the hat-trick trials have demonstrated the missile’s capabilities, IAF is planning more tests on Thursday.

Defence sources said, two squadrons of Akash missile system developed by DRDO have been inducted into IAF and the system was in continuous production and induction.Akash is India’s first indigenously designed, developed and produced air defence system capable of engaging aerial threats up to a distance of 30 km. The multi target, multi-directional, all weather air-defence system consisting of surveillance and tracking radars, control centres and ground support systems mounted on high mobility vehicles is designed to enable integration with other air defence command and control networks through secured communication links.

The missile, which has a launch weight of 720 kg, a length of 5.8 metres and a diameter of 35 cm, can carry a pay load of 50 kg. It can fly at supersonic speed of around 2.5 Mach and can reach an altitude of 18 kms. The missile can be fired from both tracked and wheeled platforms.The missile is crucial for India’s air defence programme as it can be used to counter enemy aircrafts and air-to-surface missiles.

srai
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3687
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby srai » 01 Dec 2017 17:01

^^^
How about the MR-SAM? Will it also undergo as many "proofing" firings as the Akash? Although, these sound more like regular firing exercies but the article makes it sound a bit different.

John
BRFite
Posts: 1539
Joined: 03 Feb 2001 12:31

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby John » 01 Dec 2017 17:53

srai wrote:^^^
How about the MR-SAM? Will it also undergo as many "proofing" firings as the Akash? Although, these sound more like regular firing exercies but the article makes it sound a bit different.

Cannot comment on MR SAM because it has not been inducted but LR SAM was recently test fired from INS Kochi and has been tested quite extensively and frequently.

tsarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2176
Joined: 08 May 2006 13:44
Location: mumbai

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby tsarkar » 01 Dec 2017 19:36

Lots of LRSAM & Shtil user testing has happened - refer Navy Day 2017 official video for both being fired on multiple occasions https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GqVIqgdeNCQ

Chandipur has its set of defence reporters, there are none at Pigeon or Trak Islands where these missiles are tested.
Last edited by tsarkar on 01 Dec 2017 19:45, edited 1 time in total.

uddu
BRFite
Posts: 1738
Joined: 15 Aug 2004 17:09

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby uddu » 01 Dec 2017 19:36

IAF test is mentioned as third one. One such test is by the Army successfully test firing 5 such missiles. Which is the second one?
Army carries out five successful tests of Akash missiles
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/indi ... 00842.html

As part of the tests, five Akash missiles while simulating different situations destroyed five different targets successfully and met the parameters for which they were being tested. The missiles have been equipped with new seekers, sources said.

All the sophisticated radars, control centres, launchers and missiles have been prepared and operated by Army teams with military precision.

Notable among the operations is the launching of missile by a young woman Air Defence officer for the first time in the country.

The flight trials are conducted at ITR Chandipur. Defence minister has expressed happiness for the synergy among Army, DRDO and PSUs in demonstrating excellent performance of inducted Akash system.

JTull
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2042
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby JTull » 01 Dec 2017 20:14

New seeker?

Thakur_B
BRFite
Posts: 992
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Thakur_B » 02 Dec 2017 18:57

New Seeker? DDM ?

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34006
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby shiv » 02 Dec 2017 19:29

Er sorry but
New Seekers 1972

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 14628
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 03 Dec 2017 12:16

Akash with seeker, per multiple news reports.

sudhan
BRFite
Posts: 739
Joined: 01 Jul 2009 17:53
Location: Timbuktoo..

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby sudhan » 03 Dec 2017 12:25

Karan M wrote:Akash with seeker, per multiple news reports.


That was supposed to be partof the 'NG' upgrade, no?

Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7528
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Pratyush » 03 Dec 2017 12:59

As part of my google feed the akash with improved seekers is called Akash S 1.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 14628
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 03 Dec 2017 13:10

Akash NG is an entirely new missile and I suspect an entirely new radar program with it - probably lighter and smaller, because the seeker equipped Akash would not need a Rajendra sized FCR to guide it all the way to the target. I hope DRDO exhibits some hard nosed business sense for once and makes it equal in range to the MRSAM (though its very unlikely). I see no reason for us to keep providing IAI payments in perpetuity for their seeker and radar combination. Anyhow I guess the Akash NG will be 40-50 km slant range solid motor (not ramjet) propelled missile system with a new AESA radar on a compact vehicle platform, with there being EO sight + guidance option and missile having an active seeker (and if DRDO pulls it off, a multi-spectral seeker)

ashishvikas
BRFite
Posts: 200
Joined: 17 Oct 2016 14:18

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ashishvikas » 03 Dec 2017 14:48

The new missile named Akash-S1 was tested successfully five times in Odisha, last week.

http://m.indiatoday.in/lite/story/make- ... 02047.html

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 21899
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby SSridhar » 03 Dec 2017 15:45

AFAIK, Akash-1S is a technology demonstrator for Akash-NG, especially for the RF seeker. It is no new missile.

The Akash-NG will enable Akash to have the ability to engage up to 10 targets simultaneously at ranges of 50 km.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 14628
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 03 Dec 2017 15:55

Its not a TD - looks like a technology enhancement.

From my earlier notes:
Karan M wrote: Indian Missile and Munitions Programs, as of 2017

SAMs:
• SRSAM: Deal with MBDA for codevelopment yet to be signed, likely stalled given QRSAM progress; reports note range is now 20 km with negotiations concluded with MBDA, only GOI clearance awaited. Trishul development complete but system wont be inducted.
• LRSAM/MRSAM with Israel: LRSAM versions in induction, range likely 90 km (rather than originally expected 70km). Motor, missile components, C3I & TELs from India for LRSAM/MRSAM. LRSAM is for Navy and is on order as is MRSAM for IAF, which wants 9 squadrons with 2 fire units each. Radars will likely be imported with some subsystems (eg TX/RX modules) license made in India & complete set up and calibration done at BEL. IA has also been cleared to ordered five regiments, IA Akash regiments have upto 6 firing units (3 times IAF size). MRSAM IA regiments are stated to have 40 firing units (8 per regiment).
• Akash: MK1 development complete, in production (8 Sq for AF, two regiments for Army); 8 squadron order pending on price negotiation with BEL.
Akash NG in development, active seekers, 50km range with 10 targets engage. MK1S program in development, technology insertion for Akash Mk1 program with active seekers.
• New SAM: New design, with range of 150km. Status unknown.
• QRSAM: New Astra/Trishul/LRSAM technology derived missile with all new configuration (AESA FCR/SR on Trucks for mobility). 30km range, multi-target handling, fire on short stop, track while move. Meant for IA needs but derivative likely for Navy as SRSAM.


srai
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3687
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby srai » 03 Dec 2017 20:35

^^^

IA MRSAM requirements bit high? 5 Regiments with 40 firing units. This would be double of the IAF requirements who has the overall air defense responsibility.

deejay
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3628
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby deejay » 03 Dec 2017 20:52

IAF has the overall Air Defence Responsibility?

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5887
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Indranil » 03 Dec 2017 23:30

This Akash 1S program was finished at double speed. India has truly turned the corner in missiles. How many kinds of missiles have we developed in the last 5 years.

I wish they quickly grant this jingo's wish: a WVR AAM please.

nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5896
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby nachiket » 03 Dec 2017 23:40

Indranil wrote:This Akash 1S program was finished at double speed. India has truly turned the corner in missiles. How many kinds of missiles have we developed in the last 5 years.

I wish they quickly grant this jingo's wish: a WVR AAM please.

I guess the challenge there would be the seeker as well. We have several missile prgrams using RF seekers. Akash 1S and NG, Astra (it uses the R-77 seeker but they are working on an indigenous one), NGARM etc. The only missile using an IIR seeker is Nag I guess. I do not know how adaptable the seeker would be to be used in an AAM and the last news regarding the Nag test had mentioned a medium-wave IR seeker which I found confusing. Aside from that the DRDO should have a high confidence in their ability to design the missile itself by now.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 14628
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 03 Dec 2017 23:44

Nachiket, the last Astra tests were conducted with the indigenous seeker.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 14628
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 03 Dec 2017 23:49

srai wrote:^^^

IA MRSAM requirements bit high? 5 Regiments with 40 firing units. This would be double of the IAF requirements who has the overall air defense responsibility.


$2.53 Billion deal.

The IA has multiple pivot corps now IBGs which need AD cover. It is also clearly mentioned as protecting against Ballistic Missiles. This is particularly relevant against PRC & Pak both, former for 2nd Arty type raids and latter for Nasr.

4 regiments of Akash + 5 regiments of Barak which is mentioned as having an anti-ballistic missile role as well.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 243987.cms

Then there is the QRSAM to replace the older Russian SAMs. I think only thing left are the guns which are being upgraded but which need to be eventually replaced.

ArjunPandit
BRFite
Posts: 658
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ArjunPandit » 04 Dec 2017 00:03

Indranil wrote:This Akash 1S program was finished at double speed. India has truly turned the corner in missiles. How many kinds of missiles have we developed in the last 5 years.

I wish they quickly grant this jingo's wish: a WVR AAM please.

From heart wrenching days of some US senator's comments about prithvi missile to Agni falling in Bay of Bengal to grainy videos of Agni 1, 2, 3, 4 soaring through skies. And now a desi seeker, and nirbhay missile with desi engine and now desi seekers, Brahmos armed su-30. That sums our missile journey.
Eagerly waiting for hypersonic missiles and india part of that treaty.

morem
BRFite
Posts: 107
Joined: 26 Jul 2009 15:52

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby morem » 04 Dec 2017 00:37

ArjunPandit wrote:
Indranil wrote:This Akash 1S program was finished at double speed. India has truly turned the corner in missiles. How many kinds of missiles have we developed in the last 5 years.

I wish they quickly grant this jingo's wish: a WVR AAM please.

From heart wrenching days of some US senator's comments about prithvi missile to Agni falling in Bay of Bengal to grainy videos of Agni 1, 2, 3, 4 soaring through skies. And now a desi seeker, and nirbhay missile with desi engine and now desi seekers, Brahmos armed su-30. That sums our missile journey.
Eagerly waiting for hypersonic missiles and india part of that treaty.


+1

sums it up beautifully. We have come a long way

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 14628
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 04 Dec 2017 01:25

I am waiting for SAAW, PGM, NGARM, Astra equipped Su-30s to be a standard.
Expecting QRSAM, SRSAM to be in IA, IAF, IN service.
Watching Akash 1S, Akash NG trials as proud service members announce induction.
Hoping for Phase - 2 BMD to pass complex test cases and enter service protecting our country.
Seeing Nag, Prospina, MPATGM inducted in the thousands, or even tens of thousands.
Looking for Nirbhay variants, more Brahmos variants all to enter service in the thousands.
Followed by more SSMs for IA, IAF...

A long list!

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5887
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Indranil » 04 Dec 2017 02:11

And then the exotic list:

SFDR based Astra, LFRJ based LRCM.

kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2130
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby kit » 04 Dec 2017 02:32

srai wrote:^^^

IA MRSAM requirements bit high? 5 Regiments with 40 firing units. This would be double of the IAF requirements who has the overall air defense responsibility.


the IA would use them to shield the moving armoured formations , more numbers for redundancy

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4163
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Rakesh » 04 Dec 2017 05:46

Karan M: Is there not a canister version of the Akash SAM coming in as well? Is that Akash NG?

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5887
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Indranil » 04 Dec 2017 08:26

Yes.

Gyan
BRFite
Posts: 913
Joined: 26 Aug 2016 19:14

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Gyan » 04 Dec 2017 09:11

Indranil wrote:This Akash 1S program was finished at double speed. India has truly turned the corner in missiles. How many kinds of missiles have we developed in the last 5 years.

I wish they quickly grant this jingo's wish: a WVR AAM please.


Actually Astra was supposed to cheap enough to be used as WVR also, though DRDO Calls it CCM. An IR WVR will be nice but it is not a show stopper if adequate number of Astra are ordered. And yes, off bore sight angle is important but lot of things are just brochure bashing.

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4163
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Rakesh » 04 Dec 2017 09:37

Thanks Indranil.

srin
BRFite
Posts: 1400
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:13

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby srin » 04 Dec 2017 11:09

nachiket wrote:
Indranil wrote:This Akash 1S program was finished at double speed. India has truly turned the corner in missiles. How many kinds of missiles have we developed in the last 5 years.

I wish they quickly grant this jingo's wish: a WVR AAM please.

I guess the challenge there would be the seeker as well. We have several missile prgrams using RF seekers. Akash 1S and NG, Astra (it uses the R-77 seeker but they are working on an indigenous one), NGARM etc. The only missile using an IIR seeker is Nag I guess. I do not know how adaptable the seeker would be to be used in an AAM and the last news regarding the Nag test had mentioned a medium-wave IR seeker which I found confusing. Aside from that the DRDO should have a high confidence in their ability to design the missile itself by now.


I think there was one PDV missile ABM test where IIR seeker was used for homing.

srai
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3687
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby srai » 04 Dec 2017 11:53

Karan M wrote:I am waiting for SAAW, PGM, NGARM, Astra equipped Su-30s to be a standard.
Expecting QRSAM, SRSAM to be in IA, IAF, IN service.
Watching Akash 1S, Akash NG trials as proud service members announce induction.
Hoping for Phase - 2 BMD to pass complex test cases and enter service protecting our country.
Seeing Nag, Prospina, MPATGM inducted in the thousands, or even tens of thousands.
Looking for Nirbhay variants, more Brahmos variants all to enter service in the thousands.
Followed by more SSMs for IA, IAF...

A long list!


Last imports?
  • LR-SAM -> S-400
  • MANPAD -> Mistral?
  • BVR AAM -> MICA, Derby, Meteor

CCM category remains to do:
  • CCM -> Python-5, ASRAAM, Mistral

Anything else? By 2030, India looks to be pretty self-sufficient in PGM and missiles. One design dimension restriction would be for aerial delivery weapons, some of them would need to fit inside weapon bays of AMCA, AURA and FGFA.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17856
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Philip » 04 Dec 2017 15:05

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7342&p=2234733#p2234733

Cancellation of Spike ATGM Deal:
Indigenisation over Force Modernisation
Arjun Subramanian P

Centre for Air Power Studies | @CAPS_India | Centre for Air Power Studies
90/17
The ministry of defence has surprisingly
cancelled the deal to procure over 8000 Spike
Anti-Tank Guided Missiles and has instead
tasked the Defence Research and Development
Organisation (DRDO) to design a man-portable
ATGM1 with a range of 2.5 to 4 km within the
next three to four years.2 The move is seen as an
effort to boost indigenous design and
development of weapon systems. However, it is a
massive setback to army modernisation
programme and would delay the induction of the
critical system by several years.
This is not the first time an ATGM tender
was cancelled as it has happened a couple of
times in the last decade with the scrapping of the
Milan missile procurement over its range and
other factors.3 The current arsenal of the army
has the second generation Milan and Konkurs
ATGM variants which have become obsolete.
Even after counting the current arsenal there is
still a massive shortage of 40000 missiles.4 This
has left a serious gap in the army’s anti-armour
capability while Pakistan is well equipped with
Chinese and US ATGM missiles and is also
operating the Ukrainian T-80 and Chinese T-85
tanks.5

The Spike ATGM was to be produced in
India in collaboration with the Bharat Dynamics
Limited (BDL) via transfer of technology. The
Israeli company had also entered into a joint
venture with the Kalyani Group for local
production of the missile. The Spike comes in
four variants – Spike-MR, Spike-LR, Spike ER, and
Spike NLOS, of which India negotiated a deal for
the Spike MR variant. The chosen variant is a
Man Portable system with a range of 2.5 km and
equipped with a tandem HEAT warhead6 capable
of top attack mode.
Although, the DRDO has expressed
confidence in its ability to design and develop a
similar MPATGM within the given timeframe, it is
to be noted that the organisation had in the past
expressed confidence in several other projects
which are still nowhere near fruition. The case of
the anti-tank missile Nag itself is proof of this
with several decades of delay and it has still not
satisfied the army. Contrary to DRDO’s claim of
successful completion of the development trials
this year, the army says that the tests have only
proven it to be partially successful and more
trials are needed.7 This throws a question mark
on DRDO’s promise to deliver an advanced
missile in the given time frame.

The DRDO developed Nag ATGM system
has a range of four kilometres, but it is not manportable
as it is heavier and is carried in a
tracked BMP. It is also said that the range of the
system gets reduced to 2.5 km in the extreme hot
conditions of the plains in the western sector as
the un-cooled LWIR sensor suffers from high
background clutter.8 The Spike system too uses
an uncooled LWIR,9 but since the max range of
the MR variant is just 2.5 km, it doesn’t affect its
standard range and further it is also manportable.
A man-portable system has advantages
over a tracked vehicle carrying the ATGMs. It has
less signature which protects the launcher from
attracting enemy fire, and is also easy to
maintain and operate and has lower
maintenance cost. However, a DRDO document
points out that its Research Centre Imarat (RCI)
has realised a 384x288 MWIR sensor and that
work is on for developing a 640x512 MWIR
FPA.10 If this capability is mature enough, then it
could solve the clutter problem in the - to be
developed MPATGM.

The army intends to equip all its 382
infantry battalions and 44 mechanised infantry
units with third generation anti-tank missiles.11
Since the indigenous route would certainly
create delay in meeting the massive requirement
of the army, there is a high chance that the
government might announce a deal to buy a
reduced number of Spike missiles during the
Israeli Prime Minister’s visit to India in the next
two months. There might also be an
announcement to jointly develop the next
generation of ATGM much on the lines of the US
offer that came with the Javelin deal.
The primary problem in trying to infuse
foreign technology into local industries via the
procurement route is the reluctance of the
foreign OEMs to part with their classified
technology which they developed at very high
cost. Moreover, trying to infuse complex
technology via ToT into local companies – which
have little or no prior experience in the area –
will be futile. The presence of a vibrant domain
specific ecosystem of MSMEs would make way
for better absorption and assimilation of cutting
edge technology. Hence, initial focus needs to be
on boosting innovation capital (physical,
knowledge and human capital) to build an
ecosystem of MSMEs that will build capacity to
easily assimilate and improve any foreign
technology brought via the procurement route.
A real push towards indigenisation should
come from fast tracking policy implementation
by way of reducing bureaucratic procedural
delays to enable MSMEs to develop capacity. The
DPP in its current form presents excellent ways
to boost indigenisation in defence production by

MSMEs via majority government investment in
R&D and prototype development. But, the key to
success is implementing the processes without
bureaucratic delays which otherwise might kill
the spirit of the local industries particularly the MSMEs.
MSMEs.

Kersi
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 28
Joined: 31 May 2017 12:25

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Kersi » 04 Dec 2017 18:18

We SEEM to be achieving self sufficiency in almost all types of missiles. Yes a few hurdles and hiccups can always crop up but I am sure we i.e DRDO etc can overcome them. I have one reservation. In 2019 we get elections. If a "new" government comes and decides on imports, for obvious reasons, what do we do ? Option is the present govt places order, with good advance, on DPSUs and private companies.


Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: A Nandy, Rakesh, ritesh and 31 guests