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Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby nash » 22 Nov 2017 17:17

shiv wrote:
sudhan wrote:Time to deploy Lungis!

Don't know about lungis but..
https://twitter.com/bennedose/status/933258088508833792
Current plans include sending C-130 300 km ahead of Brahmos carrying Sukhoi to drop diapers for those who will be browning their pants.


For eastern border may be but for western not required as it will camouflaged by uniform :lol: :lol:

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby sarang » 22 Nov 2017 17:25

congratulations to all scientists and technicians of HAL and BrahMos.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Indrajit » 22 Nov 2017 18:16

Kersi wrote:
Karthik S wrote:Order 40 more B'Mos capable MKIs (along with few blackjacks), Indo pacific will indeed mean Indo pacific. :lol:


With 40 more SU 30 MKIs and say 20 TU 160s, all with Brahmos, the Arabian Sea can be renamed Indian Ocean - Extension


:)
Bay of Dwarka would be great.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby shiv » 22 Nov 2017 18:21

OT. Saraswati Sagara

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Sid » 22 Nov 2017 18:26


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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Aditya_V » 22 Nov 2017 18:43

Nice, nose cap blasted off before the Main motors fire.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Vips » 22 Nov 2017 18:55

Guru's how far would the air launched Brahmos (from SU30 MKI) be a game changer with respect to the massive logistical advantage that China has on our Borders. In case of a war would the air launched Brahmos if used in big numbers be able to to even the playing field?

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby arun » 22 Nov 2017 19:01

Karthik S wrote:Image

Official MoD statement from LF handle.


Another Ministry of Defence Press Release on todays Air Launched Brahmos test flight.

All talk of salute to MTCR range cap of 290 KM stands junked. This Press Release describes Air Launched version as having "ranges more than 400 kms".


Successful firing of Brahmos Air Launched Missile from Su-30 MKI Aircraft

Today, IAF has successfully fired the BrahMos air version anti shipping missile from its frontline Su-30 MKI fighter aircraft off the Eastern Coast. The launch from the aircraft was smooth and the missile followed the desired trajectory before directly hitting the ship target. The missile was fired by the test crew comprising Wg Cdr Prashant Nair and Wg Cdr KP Kiran Kumar. The chase aircraft was flown by Sqn Ldr Angad Pratap and Gp Capt Badrish N Athreya.

The air launched BrahMos missile is a 2.5 ton supersonic air to surface cruise missile with ranges of more than 400 kms. The IAF is the first Air Force in the world to have successfully fired an air launched 2.8 Mach surface attack missile of this category. The integration on the aircraft was very complex involving mechanical, electrical and software modifications on aircraft. The IAF was totally involved in the activity from its inception. The software development of the aircraft was undertaken by the IAF engineers while the HAL carried out mechanical and electrical modifications on aircraft. One of the major challenges overcome by scientists of RCI, DRDO in the missile development was optimization of Transfer Alignment of the inertial sensors of the missile.

The rich experience of the IAF flight test crew ensured that the integration was smooth. The dedicated and synergetic efforts of the IAF, DRDO, BAPL and HAL have proven the capability of the nation to undertake such complex integrations on its own.

The firing could be successfully undertaken with dedicated support from Indian Navy by way of ensuring availability of the target and a large number of monitoring ships to ensure range safety clearance.

The BrahMos missile provides Indian Air Force a much desired capability to strike from large stand-off ranges on any target be in sea or land with pinpoint accuracy by day or night and in all weather conditions. The capability of the missile coupled with the superlative performance of the Su-30 aircraft gives the IAF a strategic reach and allows it to dominate the ocean and the battle fields.



From Press Release of our MoD via the Press Information Bureau (PIB):

Clicky

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby UlanBatori » 22 Nov 2017 19:03

Many years ago, the French gave a course at the EyeEyeTee on mijjile development, including the precursor of the EXOCET, and something called "STATLTEX" which was a high-speed cruise missile. I cannot find any trace of that now, but I found this: Air-Sol Moyenne Portee Avec De Fuel Liquide Champagne
Mach 3 air-launched cruisemissile, (sorry.. I see the difference) liquid fuel rocket + ramjet. BRAHMOS is solid fuel rocket+ramjet.
Frogistan also advertises this vaporvare missile "Perseus"
Mach 5 cruise missile.

Question pls: What is the basis for the claim that BRAHMOS is the fastest cruise missile? IOW, what can Pakistan buy to counter this horrendous SDRE mijjile threatening peaceful terrorists, hain?

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby srin » 22 Nov 2017 19:10

Some thoughts:
Like IAF maintains Jaguar IM, we need maritime Sukhois - many squadrons of them. Imperative to have fresh orders for Sukhois.

For terrestrial use, this is a perfect cold-start weapon.

We need this like yesterday. While I don't know the exact number, I'd imagine that the orders for air-launched Brahmos is going to dwarf the ship launched and land launched ones. We need to make more and quickly.

Would love to see Brahmos-M developed really quickly. Might be lighter and shorter ranged or lighter warhead, but our Migs and LCAs can also carry it.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby brar_w » 22 Nov 2017 19:25

UlanBatori wrote:Mach 3 air-launched cruisemissile, (sorry.. I see the difference) liquid fuel rocket + ramjet. BRAHMOS is solid fuel rocket+ramjet.


I believe with the ASMP-A, the French have shifted to a Solid fuel rocket + Liquid-fueled Ramjet as well. Besides design and weight, the main difference b/w the two (ASMP and Brahmos) is that the ASMP does not have a conventional variant.

https://missilethreat.csis.org/missile/asmp/
Last edited by brar_w on 22 Nov 2017 19:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby sudhan » 22 Nov 2017 19:27

Some observations from the video (I felt the video on Replublic website was of better quality)

1. There was a small puff of smoke when the missile was released (pyro bolts?)
2. The aircraft barely had a wiggle after the separation (FBW tweaked for these Sukhois?)
3. The missile hauls musharaff after solid booster ignition.. The chase pilot has trouble keeping it in the middle of the frame..

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 22 Nov 2017 19:32

Finally.

The BrahMos missile provides Indian Air Force a much desired capability to strike from large stand-off ranges on any target be in sea or land with pinpoint accuracy by day or night and in all weather conditions.


Note the land bit.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Gagan » 22 Nov 2017 20:40

Many Many Many Moons ago in the Mil Scenario Dhaga I had posted the below:
The Su-30 MKI, lead said, "Launching now, ETA 4 mins"
The two planes released the massive missile each carried in their underbelly. The missiles fell silently for a second, then two rocket motors fired from the nose cap, and separated the nose cap from the front of the missile.

The dark arabian sea lit up as the massive ramjets ignited, the missiles leaping forward like uncontrollable horses

*** The Brahmos is a 3 ton missile that travels at close to Mach 3. Three tons of steel impacting on its target at three times the speed of sound will annihilate! The dastardly Indians had put in a 280 pound high explosive munition in the nose tip...***

Congratulations BRAHMOS LTD, DRDO, and IAF !

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Rakesh » 22 Nov 2017 21:02

Congratulations to the IAF, DRDO. Excellent job.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Cain Marko » 22 Nov 2017 21:09

brar_w wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:Mach 3 air-launched cruisemissile, (sorry.. I see the difference) liquid fuel rocket + ramjet. BRAHMOS is solid fuel rocket+ramjet.


I believe with the ASMP-A, the French have shifted to a Solid fuel rocket + Liquid-fueled Ramjet as well. Besides design and weight, the main difference b/w the two (ASMP and Brahmos) is that the ASMP does not have a conventional variant.

https://missilethreat.csis.org/missile/asmp/

The big question of course is that how comes the asmpa is so much lighter? Less range?

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby disha » 22 Nov 2017 21:17

Air launched Brahmos successfully tested. Congratulations.

Lets get back to Dhoti-Shiver mode!

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby brar_w » 22 Nov 2017 21:22

The big question of course is that how comes the asmpa is so much lighter? Less range?


The missile is purpose built to fly 500 km (A variant and optimized trajectory ) when launched from a fighter so there is likely some design optimization as well. It could also be more using more efficient propulsion or lighter materials. There are likely also significant savings from seeker and guidance given it is a strategic missile and need not be tuned for each and every target the Brahmos is designed to go after.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 22 Nov 2017 21:34

disha wrote:Air launched Brahmos successfully tested. Congratulations.

Lets get back to Dhoti-Shiver mode!


:lol: :lol: :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Singha » 22 Nov 2017 22:03

details on the asmp are very very sketchy, including its flight profile and speed and why it was never developed into a anti-IADS weapon.

perhaps the reality is a lot less soothing than the brochure.

frenchies do have some background in ramjets from early days, incl the redoubtable Nord Griffon :D

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby JayS » 22 Nov 2017 22:09

sarang wrote:congratulations to all scientists and technicians of HAL and BrahMos.


Lets not forget IAF too.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karthik S » 22 Nov 2017 22:11

Ornob is showing today's BrahMos video to pakis and asking why we shouldn't use this to burst HS. :lol:

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby shiv » 22 Nov 2017 22:24

Brahmos promised an land mijjile. They delivered

They promised sea launched. They delivered

They promised air launched. They delivered.

I am expecting that they will give us both hypersonic and mini Brahmos in due course. Private companies have to make money. No free land. Can't keep drivers and gardeners on payroll forever

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby nash » 22 Nov 2017 22:55

Karthik S wrote:Ornob is showing today's BrahMos video to pakis and asking why we shouldn't use this to burst HS. :lol:


yes saw that. as hilarious as it gets, loved the face expression of pakis .. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Austin » 22 Nov 2017 22:57

Vishnu Som‏Verified account @VishnuNDTV
5h5 hours ago

Fascinating new detail on today's successful BrahMos test-fire off a Su-30MKI:
1. Missile has a range of MORE THAN 400 kms.
2. The missile had a direct hit on its target which was a ship.
3. The missile can strike land and sea-targets with pinpoint accuracy

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby vasu raya » 22 Nov 2017 23:06

Finally they made it, Congragulations to all those involved! with this test maybe HAL redeemed itself a bit after the adverse reports on its production quality from almost a decade back
Last edited by vasu raya on 22 Nov 2017 23:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Austin » 22 Nov 2017 23:06

NDTV's Defence Editor On Why BrahMos Test Today Is Such A Big Deal

https://www.ndtv.com/blog/ndtvs-defence ... al-1778813

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Austin » 22 Nov 2017 23:07

Why the two booster one very short and one long once the missile is dropped , The first short booster is a mystery

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby shiv » 22 Nov 2017 23:13

Austin wrote:Why the two booster one very short and one long once the missile is dropped , The first short booster is a mystery

The 1st one blew off the cap

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Austin » 22 Nov 2017 23:56

shiv wrote:
Austin wrote:Why the two booster one very short and one long once the missile is dropped , The first short booster is a mystery

The 1st one blew off the cap


Makes sense.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ArjunPandit » 23 Nov 2017 00:03

Austin wrote:NDTV's Defence Editor On Why BrahMos Test Today Is Such A Big Deal

https://www.ndtv.com/blog/ndtvs-defence ... al-1778813

Nothing that hasnt been discussed already on this forum itself.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Aditya G » 23 Nov 2017 00:58

shiv wrote:Brahmos promised an land mijjile. They delivered

They promised sea launched. They delivered

They promised air launched. They delivered.

I am expecting that they will give us both hypersonic and mini Brahmos in due course. Private companies have to make money. No free land. Can't keep drivers and gardeners on payroll forever


They also promised submarine launched - and delivered. Except there is no submarine around to fire it.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Kartik » 23 Nov 2017 01:17

F**k yeah!! Now that is one heck of a macho fighter! Just look at the length of that thing between its intakes!

Image

Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Rakesh » 23 Nov 2017 01:27

Wow, that thing is HUGE. Kudos to the team. Fantastic Job. And great shots.

SB 200 is the exact same Rambha that was used, for doing a dummy launch last year.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ArjunPandit » 23 Nov 2017 01:31

1. What kind of ship would be used as a target, 2.5 ton of projectile with mach 2 (at least) would be like vajra. Guessing it would be static for the first test
2. The ET report says over 200 missiles will be on order
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/iaf-first-in-world-to-fire-brahmos-missile-from-air/articleshow/61757675.cms
The proposal for fitting the Su-30MKIs was approved by the Cabinet Committee on Security in October 2012, with the decision that the IAF will get over 200 air-launched versions of the BrahMos missiles.

Assuming 20-30 will go for testing in practice or testing over a long horizon. The number seems to be of premium targets. Remind me how many ships are in PLA :twisted: ?

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Rakesh » 23 Nov 2017 01:45

The PLAN's capital ships - aircraft carriers, destroyers - now are all on notice. Link up with the P-8Is and you have a formidable combination.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ArjunPandit » 23 Nov 2017 03:28

Karthik S wrote:Ornob is showing today's BrahMos video to pakis and asking why we shouldn't use this to burst HS. :lol:

Hafiz saeed should have been bursted using ground bursted after a few days using GL Brahmos or pinaka salvo, else we should have flattened the ISPR/ISI HQ to send a message indian lives are not cheap anywhere.
IMHO, it was a kammandu attack on innocent civilians or unequipped police. What we did then is a different story, why we dont do it now is even sadder. What better than to commemorate Tukaram Omble and Hemant Karkare's martyrdom's 9th anniversary to have this closed by 10th anniv. Afterall HS must be awaiting his 72

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Indranil » 23 Nov 2017 06:09

Red letter day. Lungi deployed. Next stop Brahmos NG.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby SSridhar » 23 Nov 2017 07:05

Here is a history of this great moment of BrahMos-A (culled from various sources):

The air-launched version (BrahMos-A) which was expected to be tested by end-2014, could be done only in c. 2017 (November, 22, 2017). Its launcher hads been ground tested but a wrangle with Russia on redesigning (strengthening the underbelly and some other design changes to the fuselage) had held up the test. In December, 2012, ahead of Russian President Putin’s visit, India and Russia inked a deal for the air-launched BrahMos with the expectation that the first such missile would be tested before June, 2013. Apart from one Su-30 MKI in Russia, two Su-30MKI of the IAF were to be modified by the HAL at its Nashik facility where they will also be integrated with the aerial launcher developed by BATL, Thiruvananthapuram. The Russians quoted USD 250 M which was not acceptable to India and so DRDO decided to do the project entirely on its own (BrahMos Chief in AeroIndia 2017 lecture) to strengthen the Su-30 MKI's fuselage to take on the launcher from which the missile, with a take-off mass of 2,500 kg, would be gravity-dropped. On October 18, 2012, the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) cleared the Rs. 6000 Crore proposal by the IAF to acquire 200 air-launched BrahMos missiles. Fabricated using high strength aluminium, the 6-metre-long airborne launcher — the largest in the world — weighs 350 kg. This was the first time that India built any launcher at all, leave alone building the world’s heaviest launcher. The undercarriage of the Su-30MKI was strengthened to take the extra weight. The missile weight was brought down from 2.9 tonnes to 2.4 tonnes. In November 2012, Defence sources said that the missile would be qualified against targets at sea and on land in a staggered fashion before the end of 2013. After successful integration of the launcher with the aircraft, a dummy missile would be flown, to test the release mechanism of the launcher. This will be followed by a few test-flights of the ‘electronic missile,’ meant to check the electronic circuits and the cockpit-controlled release mechanism. Firing of live missile against designated targets will take place towards the end of 2014.

In February 2014, the BrahMos Chief, Dr. Sivathanu Pillai said that the missile itself and the launchers were ready for the Su-30 MKI. He said, “"The missile has been cleared for flight after simulation tests. Work is now underway in the Hindustan Aeronautics facility at Nasik to strengthen the Sukhoi fuselage to ensure the fighter can carry the heavy missile. After integration, we plan to test the missile from the fighter in December," An official said, “It will take another three months to perfect the Sukhoi's software and mission computer for the BrahMos missiles”. In October 2014, BrahMos Chief Dr. Sudhir Mishra said that a dummy missile would be air-dropped from a Su-30 MKI early 2015 and the actual missile would be fired in March, 2015. The BrahMos Aerospace CEO Sudhir Mishra said in mid-September, 2015 that the air-launch tests will commence from November, 2015. In November 2015, the HAL Chairman Suvarna Raju sounded very positive of imminent tests. According to an October 2015 report, the first test, a dead weight one, of the BrahMos integrated Sukhoi was likely to take place soon. The second test would be by firing a dummy missile while the third and fourth stages of testing would be with actual missile, but without the 200 kg warhead to validate the guidance system and accuracy. Two Sukhois would be used for the tests which would be completed in 2016. In end May 2016, The Hindu, quoting BrahMos sources said that the missile would be fired from a Su-30 MkI in the coming weeks.

Finally, it was on June 25, 2016 that the first Su-30 MKI flew with the 2.5 Tonne BrahMos strapped to its centerline, for 45 minutes at HAL, Nashik. The first separation test was successfully achieved on August 31, 2016. T. Suvarna Raju, CMD of Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd, said that they plan to fly and drop a real missile against a target around October or November, 2016 after another 15-20 flights to evaluate the performance of the missile-ready fighter. During Aero-India 2017, Dr. Sudhir Mishra, BrahMos Chief, said that the test would be carried out in the ‘next few months’. HAL has modified two Sukhois for test purposes without any help at all from the Sukhoi manufacturers. In October 2016, news emerged that BrahMos-A was being tweaked to give it an ability to hit aircraft carriers and a test against a derelict warship would be conducted in the Bay of Bengal sometime in December, 2016. This will be at an angle of 65 degrees while the Phase-2 tests in c. 2017 would aim to achieve 90 degree attack on an aircraft carrier with a new radar-seeker to help it acquire and lock-on to a moving target.

In June 2017, it was announced that after six sets of carriage separation trials, a live firing of BrahMos-A from a Su-30 MKI would be carried out in July, 2017. Finally, BrahMos-A was tested successfully on Nov, 22, 2017 when Ministry of Defence (MoD) made the following announcement: “BrahMos, the world’s fastest supersonic cruise missile, created history on 22nd November, 2017 after it was successfully flight tested first time from the Indian Air Foce’s front line fighter aircraft Sukhoi-30 MKI against a sea-based target in the Bay of Bengal. The missile was gravity dropped from the Su-30 from fuselage, and the two-stage missile’s engine fired up and straightaway propelled towards the intended target at sea in the Bay of Bengal.” Other sources indicated that the target, a ship, was at a range of 280 Kms. and it was a direct hit. During AeroIndia 2017 (February 2017), The BrahMos Chief said that BrahMos weapon system has been tested so far 55 times with a success rate of above 99%.

BrahMos-A has a length of 8550 mm and can be launched at any height between 500m and 9000m. It falls freely for 100-150m before firing. It has a cruise phase altitude of up to 14000m and a terminal phase altitude of 5-15 m. A Brahmos air launch is a relatively straightforward affair. Before take-off, the target coordinates are fed into the missile. When the Su-30MKI reaches the designated launch point, probably just short of the border to maximise range, the pilot releases the Brahmos. The missile drops clear of the aircraft before its booster ignites; then, powered by a ramjet, it quickly accelerates to more than twice the speed of sound providing little reaction time to enemy air defence fighters and missiles. Guided by navigation satellites, its inertial navigation system takes it precisely to its target. Integrating the Brahmos with the Su-30MKI encountered several technical challenges. IIT Mumbai assisted with studies in "computational fluid dynamics" to ascertain that the giant missile did not create disruptive airflow that would destabilise the fighter or starve its two engines of air. The IAF has placed an order for more than 40 missiles to equip the two squadrons. For the IAF, the suitable platforms for Brahmos are the Su-30MKI and for the navy Russian Il-38SD ASW aircraft and, in a few years' time, the Boeing P-8I Poseidon ASW aircraft. The IAF is planning to deploy it on the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) being developed with Russia, after reducing the weight of the missile to below 2 tonnes. Eventually, only 42 Su-30 MkI fighters would be fitted with BrahMos-A missiles. Besides BrahMos-A, the IAF also has two squadrons (80 missiles per squadron) of surface-launched BrahMos Block-II Land Attack missiles in order to take out enemy communication towers, radars, runways etc. BrahMos release on May 27, 2016 said that recently IAF had tested these missiles successfully.

On Air Force Day, October 5, 2017, the IAF Chief B.S.Dhanoa said that BrahMos-A would be test-fired before December, 2017. The successful conclusion of zero-CEP Brahmos-A would be a lethal anti-maritime weapon around the A&N island chain.The Radar, Seeker & Propulsion technologies of BrahMos-A come from Russia. The radar is a mono-pulse X-band Imaging Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) unlike TERCOM (Terrain Contour Matching) radars used in slow-flying (sub-sonic) cruise missiles. It uses this special radar which gets its updates from the GPS/Russian GLONASS and flies across many way-points (where the flight changes its path instead of the traditional trajectory which can be monitored) to evade enemy radars. Because of this peculiarity, and the super-sonic speed, BrahMos is impossible to be intercepted. The BrahMos seeker – seeker SGH – is made by the Russian company, Granit Joint Stock Company. It has the capability for accurate terminal guidance, where the seeker takes over from the GPS supported radar to hit the target. DRDO has recently developed an indigenous seeker which involves numerous domestic companies especially Data Pattern and ECIL. The BrahMos propulsion involves two-stage motor, of which the booster is the first stage and the ramjet engine being the other one. In order to reduce the weight of the BrahMos-A by 500kg as compared with the navy and army version of BrahMos, the booster size has been reduced with the ramjet engine remaining the same weight. This has been done since BrahMos-A fired from the Su-30MKI will already be at an altitude and will have an initial velocity that do not require much boost to enter the cruise phase powered by the ramjet engine. The challenge, however, will be in the miniaturisation of BrahMos-A so that three missiles – BrahMos NG – instead of the present single missile on the Su-30MKI can be loaded. This will require a new ramjet engine, work on which is underway with Russia.

Indranil
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Indranil » 23 Nov 2017 09:50

I was just thinking. This is the first time, that cap has flown at such high speeds.


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