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Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

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Singha
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Singha » 03 Jan 2018 08:12

i was just giving info on what the PLAN has done...a combined hot and cold launch chassis. permits good flexibility in design choices albeit the hot launch ones need to be thinner to permit ring shaped exhaust.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 03 Jan 2018 09:22


Mukesh.Kumar
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Mukesh.Kumar » 03 Jan 2018 14:44

X-post from Indian Air Force Thread

VKumar wrote:News flash. Rafale Rafael confirms India cancels USD 500 m deal.


VKumar- Not the aircraft deal but the deal for SPIKE seems to have been spiked. This would belong better in Missiles thread.

Jerusalem Post

Apologies if posted earlier

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby srai » 03 Jan 2018 14:50

Mukesh.Kumar wrote:X-post from Indian Air Force Thread

VKumar wrote:News flash. Rafale Rafael confirms India cancels USD 500 m deal.


VKumar- Not the aircraft deal but the deal for SPIKE seems to have been spiked. This would belong better in Missiles thread.

Jerusalem Post

Apologies if posted earlier

One should read the comments of that article ...

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby JayS » 03 Jan 2018 17:17

Mukesh.Kumar wrote:X-post from Indian Air Force Thread

VKumar wrote:News flash. Rafale Rafael confirms India cancels USD 500 m deal.


VKumar- Not the aircraft deal but the deal for SPIKE seems to have been spiked. This would belong better in Missiles thread.

Jerusalem Post

Apologies if posted earlier


This is old news. And it says Rafael denied having knowledge of any such decision from India. Where exactly it says "Rafael confirms India cancels USD 500 m deal"..??

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Mukesh.Kumar » 03 Jan 2018 17:40

JayS wrote:
Mukesh.Kumar wrote:X-post from Indian Air Force Thread



VKumar- Not the aircraft deal but the deal for SPIKE seems to have been spiked. This would belong better in Missiles thread.

Jerusalem Post

Apologies if posted earlier


This is old news. And it says Rafael denied having knowledge of any such decision from India. Where exactly it says "Rafael confirms India cancels USD 500 m deal"..??


That's the funny thing. Today when i did a Google search to see if it was about the MRCA it showed news was 1 hr old, but the time stamp on comments were from 20th Nov. Now I am more confused than before. Wonder how/ why?

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Austin » 03 Jan 2018 18:08

Saurav Jha
‏ @SJha1618
13m13 minutes ago

Putting all speculation to rest, Rafael confirms that it has received a notification from India's Ministry of Defence to the effect that the $500 million Spike ATGM deal stands cancelled.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby suryag » 04 Jan 2018 15:08

Writetake says DRDO confirmed Nirbhay would be supersonic, no details available and in light of that it is confusing, given Nirbhay was supposed to be this subsonic loitering cruise missile that would be a fraction of the cost of Big Brother Brahmos

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 04 Jan 2018 15:17

He probably saw the DRDO calendar which has a typo that Nirbhay is supersonic cruise missile...:D

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby sudhan » 04 Jan 2018 17:30

Maybe its supposed to have a 'Sizzler'esque supersonic end game sprint..?

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 04 Jan 2018 19:16

Sudhan, like I suspected it was all the calendar typo. I noticed it and grinned thinking of who will draw attention or fall for the obvious typo.. and here we go. To his credit AKM says he was kidding and not being serious.

https://twitter.com/writetake/status/948834490188578816

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 04 Jan 2018 19:37

Image

A quick primer on the HSLD bombs.

http://www.delhidefencereview.com/2017/ ... firepower/

Note, these are Indian PGM kits - not Griffin on HSLD.

Winged versions of these bombs are also in trials - basically the 100 km Garuthma & then there is the similar ranged 100 km SAAW (lightweight Smart Anti Airfield Weapon). Others are NGARM & of course, the Astra.

So with these bunch, the AF will have a huge improvement in striking power.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 04 Jan 2018 19:39

The next set of upgrades from DRDO should focus on seekers - basically EO/IIR seekers and MMW ones for fire and forget ops.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby srai » 04 Jan 2018 20:36

Any reason why some of the tests were from legacy platforms like MiG-27 and Mi-35? They won't be around much longer.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 04 Jan 2018 20:47

DRDO takes whatever platforms are available from the AF & what the AF designates as likely carriers + what works easiest. MiG-27 Upg MC and nav attack software with ballistic computation was all done in-house by DARE, so I suspect they chose it for the quickest implementation.

Mi-35 is IAFs premier attack chopper with a full mission suite. IMHO, AF thought it was better suited for SANT than an ALH WSI.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Rakesh » 05 Jan 2018 07:37

https://twitter.com/sjha1618/status/946946810857242624 ---> India has made significant progress in missile seeker technology. It can now put together both RF and IIR seekers quite easily. However, RF power sources continue to be imported as do focal plane arrays. This has to change.India also has to move on to AESA seekers in a major way.

https://twitter.com/sjha1618/status/946947625034555392 ---> It is also imperative that India create foundries for gallium nitride, silicon carbide and mercury telluride. The Rs 3000 crore proposal for a GaN foundry at IISc, Bengaluru is just sitting there without actually being approved. This has to change.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby John » 05 Jan 2018 09:10

suryag wrote:Writetake says DRDO confirmed Nirbhay would be supersonic, no details available and in light of that it is confusing, given Nirbhay was supposed to be this subsonic loitering cruise missile that would be a fraction of the cost of Big Brother Brahmos

I wouldn’t say fraction of cost Nirbhay is currently projected at around 10 crores each, where as Brahmos that are being inducted is around 20 crores. It is a mistake for it to be supersonic it needs to have an additional terminal stage which it doesn’t have.
Last edited by John on 05 Jan 2018 09:18, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Thakur_B » 05 Jan 2018 09:17

Karan M wrote:The next set of upgrades from DRDO should focus on seekers - basically EO/IIR seekers and MMW ones for fire and forget ops.


Rather, they should make a leap to a dual mode seeker like stunner missile, but with aesa modules. The aesa modules will see no more than a few minutes of operation and thus don't require much cooling. Even if cooling is required, the spent gases from fpa seeker can also be used.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby abhik » 05 Jan 2018 09:34

A question for the gurus wrt to RF seekers, how does software defined radars/seekers compare with AESA? Are all software defined seekers also A/PESA?

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby arun » 05 Jan 2018 10:43

X Posted from the “Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016” thread.

abhik wrote:Isro's plan: A rocket that can be made in 3 days
As per this ISRO is developing a 100t launcher which will cost "1/10 of original manufacturing cost of PSLV", payload of 500-700kg and will be ready to launch by end of 2018 or early 2019. Was there reports of this earlier or did ISRO just pull a rabbit out of the hat?


abhik wrote:TNIE: ISRO’s baby rocket to carry small satellites, likely to take off in 2019
Some new info (I hope)
> All Solid Stages
> 20-25m height
> The name Small Satellite Launch Vehicle (SSLV) is probably going to stick


Comes across as an ISRO version of the Japan Aerospace eXploration Agency (JAXA) Epsilon Launch Vehicle {ELV Clicky} which is set for next launch on Jan 17 {E-3 Launch Clicky} and rumoured to be a wolf in sheep’s clothing as some believe it is the template for a Japanese ICBM { The Next-Generation Rockets That Japan Could Use To Protect Itself}.

So with that it in mind, is the SSLV also a wolf in sheep’s clothing and a template for an Indian ICBM?

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 06 Jan 2018 02:14

suryag wrote:Writetake says DRDO confirmed Nirbhay would be supersonic, no details available and in light of that it is confusing, given Nirbhay was supposed to be this subsonic loitering cruise missile that would be a fraction of the cost of Big Brother Brahmos



The aerodynamic shape of Nirbhay doesn't look supersonic. Maybe in dive mode.
That loitering and multiple waypoints navigations, the range, and the numerous warheads all point to a specific mission for it.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 06 Jan 2018 02:18

Thakur_B wrote:
Karan M wrote:The next set of upgrades from DRDO should focus on seekers - basically EO/IIR seekers and MMW ones for fire and forget ops.


Rather, they should make a leap to a dual mode seeker like stunner missile, but with aesa modules. The aesa modules will see no more than a few minutes of operation and thus don't require much cooling. Even if cooling is required, the spent gases from fpa seeker can also be used.


I agree. With countermeasures, that is more and more a necessity. Having said that, let DRDO get their range of ASMs/PGMs with basic seekers in service & then we can hope for the next advanced bunch. They are making significant strides, so I wouldn't be surprised if your aims are on their roadmap, its just that right now, I hope they get their standard designs into service ASAP.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 06 Jan 2018 02:18

ramana wrote:
suryag wrote:Writetake says DRDO confirmed Nirbhay would be supersonic, no details available and in light of that it is confusing, given Nirbhay was supposed to be this subsonic loitering cruise missile that would be a fraction of the cost of Big Brother Brahmos



The aerodynamic shape of Nirbhay doesn't look supersonic. Maybe in dive mode.
That loitering and multiple waypoints navigations, the range, and the numerous warheads all point to a specific mission for it.


It all started as a joke based on a typo from a DRDO calendar outsourced to some PR agency.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 06 Jan 2018 02:19

John wrote:
suryag wrote:Writetake says DRDO confirmed Nirbhay would be supersonic, no details available and in light of that it is confusing, given Nirbhay was supposed to be this subsonic loitering cruise missile that would be a fraction of the cost of Big Brother Brahmos

I wouldn’t say fraction of cost Nirbhay is currently projected at around 10 crores each, where as Brahmos that are being inducted is around 20 crores. It is a mistake for it to be supersonic it needs to have an additional terminal stage which it doesn’t have.


Where did you see Nirbhay cost estimates at? Any link?

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby John » 06 Jan 2018 02:30

Has lot of DDM in it, like quoting missile cost and comparing that with current budget :roll: But it is only one with some solid figures for Nirbhay, 100 crores for development so far and 10 crores per missile.

http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/ ... 52210.html

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 06 Jan 2018 03:01

Thanks John. Seems to be initial days, I guess a lot will depend on cost of engine & seeker - those are the 2 new pieces for Nirbhay. Given we are averaging huge costs for even basic PGMs, 10 crores going to Indian industry will be worth it. But significant price reductions can help drive bigger purchases.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby shiv » 06 Jan 2018 04:41

I'm guessing that someone in some PR agency thinks supersonic means "Hawa mein udta hai" (Flies in air)

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Singha » 06 Jan 2018 06:18

Nirbhay2 should have a klub type supersonic dart for well defended targets like ships. With its big range will permit long range shots outside of typical radar coverage from ships

That will be our next gen domestic asm

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ks_sachin » 06 Jan 2018 06:43

ramana wrote:
suryag wrote:Writetake says DRDO confirmed Nirbhay would be supersonic, no details available and in light of that it is confusing, given Nirbhay was supposed to be this subsonic loitering cruise missile that would be a fraction of the cost of Big Brother Brahmos



The aerodynamic shape of Nirbhay doesn't look supersonic. Maybe in dive mode.
That loitering and multiple waypoints navigations, the range, and the numerous warheads all point to a specific mission for it.


Ramana Sir not sure about this loitering bit. Isnt it either a cruise missile or some kind of explosive laden uav which can loiter and take out targets of opportunity?
I cannot get my head around loitering cruise missile...

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Rakesh » 06 Jan 2018 06:47

ks_sachin wrote:I cannot get my head around loitering cruise missile...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loitering_munition

From the Youtube Video below ---> Patience is a virtue. A product of Israel, The Delilah missile can loiter around the target area and wait until the right moment to attack.


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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby shiv » 06 Jan 2018 07:20

Supersonic means massive energy push to drive the missile beyond the sound barrier. That uses up a lot of fuel and that energy is not going to come from a microturbo/small jet engine. That aside a low level cruise missile is flying close to earth where the air is most dense - the worst altitude for supersonic flight in terms of energy demand.

That is a silly booboo on that calendar. I would ask @writetake to re-check. This could be in the genre of Pakistan officer picture on Indian calendar and Paki planes used for Indian publicity poster. Idiots with some knowledge of photoshop being employed by ad agencies.

Sachin a cruise missile flying a zig-zag meandering course or simply circling around is "loitering" - and this could be either to spoof defences or to wait for some signal such as an emitting radar. Or for rahukaalam to pass...

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby shiv » 06 Jan 2018 07:22

John wrote:Has lot of DDM in it, like quoting missile cost and comparing that with current budget :roll: But it is only one with some solid figures for Nirbhay, 100 crores for development so far and 10 crores per missile.

http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/ ... 52210.html

We do this all the time on BRF. A huge percentage of all discussions about weapons is cost estimates. We could give the CAG a run for its money" pun intended.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ks_sachin » 06 Jan 2018 09:03

shiv wrote:
Sachin a cruise missile flying a zig-zag meandering course or simply circling around is "loitering" - and this could be either to spoof defences or to wait for some signal such as an emitting radar. Or for rahukaalam to pass...


Shiv Saar,
loitering for me i something that is launched with no defined target and as and when something comes up.......
cruise missile for me is something that goes to a predetermined target - whether in a zig zag manner or straight or ever decreasing circles!!

Any example of a cruise missile that loiters?

maybe I am being old fashioned but my understanding of loitering is more towards the dictionary meaning....

Thought I had read a post by you sometime ago wherein you take about this..

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby prasannasimha » 06 Jan 2018 09:33

^ There was a video/animation showing Nirbhays loitering capability. The depiction showed it is able to circle an area of interest for some time and hit the required target on command . How that command can be given was not mentioned.


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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Austin » 06 Jan 2018 09:45

Loitering capability would need a two way data link so that any targets of opportunity can be feed in real time and reacted to , Loitering is good for intel gathering over an area or post damage assesment more than offensive mission as there would be a limited amount of time a missile would loiter till it runs out of fuel or battery.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 06 Jan 2018 09:52

Think Ghauri launchers. It will kill them where ever they hide like Sudarshana chakra in Bhagavatam.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Neela » 06 Jan 2018 13:02

shiv wrote:We do this all the time on BRF. A huge percentage of all discussions about weapons is cost estimates. We could give the CAG a run for its money" pun intended.


I find cost estimates, development costs, unit costs etc very informative.
Developers / Production agencies will need to factor in R&D, component imports , manufacturing,logistics & labour in pricing their product.
On the other side, the forces have their budgets. Price/unit + maintenance/support has a direct bearing on the ordered numbers.

There was recent article where Brahmos corp indigenized production of special steel used in body of missile leading to some 30% saving in cost of the missile. This is a huge development and as the price drops, it gives the forces the opportunity to order more.
And end of the day, you want to fight a war using the cheapest yet most effective options.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby brar_w » 06 Jan 2018 18:48

ks_sachin wrote:
loitering for me i something that is launched with no defined target and as and when something comes up.......
cruise missile for me is something that goes to a predetermined target - whether in a zig zag manner or straight or ever decreasing circles!!


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5098&p=2242978#p2242978

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Prem Kumar » 06 Jan 2018 19:52

We have the greatest arsenal of loitering munitions. Our love-jihadis, who wander around looking for potential targets.


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