Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

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Kakarat
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Kakarat » 30 Apr 2018 12:51

jaysimha wrote:Ministry of Defence 27-April, 2018 18:49 IST
DAC Approves Capital Acquisition Proposals Worth Rs 3,687 Crore



Can you please add the link to the news while you post them

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Kakarat » 30 Apr 2018 12:55

Austin wrote:
pankajs wrote:https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/brahmos-missile-will-breach-mach-7-barrier-in-next-decade-top-official/story-wLlhLD8pAFYzR9tYrdnZhO.html
Brahmos missile will breach mach 7 barrier in next decade: Official [Wire feed it seems]


From Mach 2.8 to Mach 3.5 a gain of 0.7 M is the speed of subsonic Harpoon and Uran class of missile .... so it like gaining a speed of subsonic missile in flight.

Mach 5 would be most promising short term gain with brahmos as it would be closer to Hypersonic speed using the current ramjet engine quite a significant achievement as none of operational deployment Ramjet engine ever did a Mach 5


There was a interview in which the DRDO chief said that HEMRL is developing a special solid fuel for BrahMos

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby dinesha » 30 Apr 2018 13:55

GTRE successfully tested Small Turbo Fan Engine STFE at Leh for high altitude performance using a mobile test bed. The engine will power UAVs and Nirbhay CM.

Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby jaysimha » 30 Apr 2018 14:09

Kakarat wrote:
jaysimha wrote:Ministry of Defence 27-April, 2018 18:49 IST
DAC Approves Capital Acquisition Proposals Worth Rs 3,687 Crore



Can you please add the link to the news while you post them


http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease. ... lid=178984

Sorry,,,,,, next time onwards it will be duly posted

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby jaysimha » 30 Apr 2018 14:32

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/pmreleases.aspx?mincode=33

This link will give all the updates of Min. of defence which can be boomarked.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Thakur_B » 30 Apr 2018 19:48

Kakarat wrote:
Austin wrote:
From Mach 2.8 to Mach 3.5 a gain of 0.7 M is the speed of subsonic Harpoon and Uran class of missile .... so it like gaining a speed of subsonic missile in flight.

Mach 5 would be most promising short term gain with brahmos as it would be closer to Hypersonic speed using the current ramjet engine quite a significant achievement as none of operational deployment Ramjet engine ever did a Mach 5


There was a interview in which the DRDO chief said that HEMRL is developing a special solid fuel for BrahMos


There were a few Russian sources which spoke of colloidal solution fuel with powdered aluminum suspended in hydrocarbons giving the propellant extremely high energy density. I think a similar approach is being followed here.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby sudeepj » 30 Apr 2018 22:12

Brahmos directors have made these claims, but the proof of the pudding is in eating it. I'll believe these claims when they actually fly it. Otherwise the next gen of Brahmos is always, just a few years away.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Kartik » 03 May 2018 02:43



"Akash, we've inducted the Akash..Exercise GaganShakti..the Akash maintained..inducted for the first time in the exercise..100% serviceability. hats off to the support given by BEL to us."

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Indranil » 03 May 2018 03:07

dinesha wrote:GTRE successfully tested Small Turbo Fan Engine STFE at Leh for high altitude performance using a mobile test bed. The engine will power UAVs and Nirbhay CM.

Image

Very pretty looking flame. Does anybody know the bypass ratio of Manik? I can see why they are confident of going to 7 kN.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby kit » 04 May 2018 03:40

Question:
Would an Indian system based on the S 400 be viable?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KM-SAM
A complete battery consists of up to six 8-cell transporter erector launchers (TELs), a passive electronically scanned array (PESA) X-band multi-function phased array 3D radar (based on the one from the Russian S-400), and a fire command vehicle. Radar operates in the X band, it rotates at a rate of 40 rpm and covers up to 80 degrees in elevation.

The KM-SAM is the middle-tier of South Korea's three-tier aerial and missile defense system. Though it was developed in Russia by the Almaz Design Bureau with assistance from Samsung Thales, LIG Nex1, and Doosan DST, localization and industrialization were done in South Korea enough to consider it an indigenous system. The Cheongung (Iron Hawk) can intercept targets up to an altitude of 15 km (49,000 ft) at a range of 40 km (25 mi). It is to replace upgraded MIM-23 Hawk batteries in South Korea and be made available for export. Almaz-Antey continued with the program after prototypes were transferred and have created a distinctly Russian version called the Vityaz missile system.

The Republic of Korea Air Force revealed in mid-2015 that the KM-SAM would soon enter mass production and begin delivery to the Air Force that September, replacing the Hawk missile that had been in Korean service since 1964, which the United States military retired in 2002. The system can intercept up to six targets simultaneously, and the missiles have anti-electronic warfare capabilities to keep functioning despite jamming
The Cheolmae 4-H L-SAM was to be an upper tier interceptor designed to take down ballistic missiles. It was to offer capabilities similar to that of the American Terminal High Altitude Area Defense missile with a range of 150 km (93 mi) and ceiling of 200,000 ft (61 km). Performance levels were to be twice as superior to the Patriot and Cheolmae II missiles, and was expected to be based on the Russian S-400 technology

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby John » 04 May 2018 05:16

^ Kit what are you trying to imply? On paper Mr-sam is superior to KM-SAM or 9m96e. But S-400 has other missiles like 40n6 which have no domestic equivalent.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Singha » 04 May 2018 20:20

Kmsam is like our akash1

We should ioc the akash2 , build a akash3 and comvine them into a s300 type system

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby pankajs » 05 May 2018 10:21

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ne ... 776393.ece
Army to get ‘enhanced’ Akash missiles

Global tender for surface-to-air missiles cancelled
The Akash surface-to-air missile defence system is once again in the news with the Army looking to order another batch, despite having previously discarded the idea in favour of Israel’s quick-reaction surface-to-air missiles (QR-SAMs).

Confirming that a new order is in the works, a Defence Ministry official said the missiles would be “greatly enhanced” to perform to their fullest capability.

Capabilities

“Akash can fly at supersonic speeds, ranging from Mach 2.8 to 3.5, and engage aerial targets up to a range of 30 km. The kill probability of the missile is 88 per cent and can be increased to 98.5 per cent by launching a second missile after five seconds of launching the first. These features will enhance the system,” said the official. The indigenous missile was officially inducted into the Indian Army in 2015. Though the Army initially planned to add additional Akash batteries, repeat instances of the system not meeting operational requirements as it failed mobility tests, led the Army to announce in 2016 that it would not order any more batteries.

Ministry order

The decision dealt a body blow to state-owned Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), which designed and is developing the missile. However, last year, the Defence Ministry cancelled a global tender for surface-to-air missile system in favour of the Akash missile system.

Russia’s Rosonboronexport, Israel’s Rafael Advanced Defence Systems and Swedish Saab were competing for the tender, with decisions weighing in favour of Israel’s QR-SAMs.

At the same time, the ministry also allocated $2.8 billion for the procurement of two regiments of the Akash missile systems for the Indian Army. A regiment has 240/288 launchers and 625/750 missiles.

Developed under the integrated guided-missile development programme (IGMDP), which also involved the development of the Nag, Agni and Trishul missiles, as well as the Prithvi ballistic missile, the Akash missile has an indigenous content of 96 per cent.

Last year, Akash was tested successfully with an indigenous seeker for the first time. This has given us the confidence to make any type of surface-to-air missile,” said a DRDO official, pointing out that it is the first indigenous weapon system developed by the DRDO to get production orders worth more than ₹25,000 crore.

As of now, 8/8 squadrons of Akash missile systems have been delivered and inducted into the IAF. “All Akash systems are independently operated by the IAF and the Army,” the official said.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Kersi » 05 May 2018 13:04

pankajs wrote:https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/army-to-get-enhanced-akash-missiles/article23776393.ece
Army to get ‘enhanced’ Akash missiles


As of now, 8/8 squadrons of Akash missile systems have been delivered and inducted into the IAF. “All Akash systems are independently operated by the IAF and the Army,” the official said.


Where are the eight squadrons of Akash SAM ?? I know of about 3-4 locations

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby SiddharthS » 05 May 2018 17:22

Developing domestic product(S-3/400 equivalent) in this environment would either be improbable or result in delays given the limited amount of funds we have, most of which gets spent on buying foreign equipments. Every penny spent on buying foreign equipment is taken away from the R&D funds of the domestic project.

One of the reasons Akash succeeded was bacause of the refusal of GOI to buy foreign SAM in favor of Akash, which gave funds by way of order to DRDO to develop its next iteration. Had we chosen Israeli or Russian SAM in favor of Akash we would have still been developing Akash without the slightest chance of it being inducted in the near future. we're going to see the same evolution of Nag if we do not buy Spike.

Iterative development is the key here, where you assume that the first and second iteration at best will be mediocre, from third iteration onwards you get the equivalent of the foreign equipment and from then on the next iterations will be competing with the foreign equipment. The mistake of not ordering equipment in its first iteration because of its mediocrity and then opting for imported equipment results in the paucity of funds for the development of second and third iteration.

Doomsday Russian influencers will tell you about the need for India to buy S-400 to deter China or the minnow, when in reality the only thing we should be putting our money into is DRDO. Put all those billions into developing XRSAM, order the mediocre first iteration in numbers, and use that money to develop the next iterations.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ShauryaT » 05 May 2018 21:48

Singha wrote:Kmsam is like our akash1

We should ioc the akash2 , build a akash3 and comvine them into a s300 type system
Why are we not investing into an Astra based SAM for Mid Range capabilities?

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby John » 05 May 2018 22:16

ShauryaT wrote:
Singha wrote:Kmsam is like our akash1

We should ioc the akash2 , build a akash3 and comvine them into a s300 type system
Why are we not investing into an Astra based SAM for Mid Range capabilities?


Astra will be more along the lines of srsam but currently Akash fills that role. Mr-sam already addresses medium to long range need.

Considering most countries don't really deploy a XRSAM I really don't see the need of purchasing S-400 just to address that gap and pitiful amount we purchase won't be enough to fully deter operation of enemy AEW platforms.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby kit » 05 May 2018 22:20

SiddharthS wrote:Developing domestic product(S-3/400 equivalent) in this environment would either be improbable or result in delays given the limited amount of funds we have,


Not really, R&D / DRDO will get sufficient funds to pursue new weapons development.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby John » 06 May 2018 03:14

kit wrote:
SiddharthS wrote:Developing domestic product(S-3/400 equivalent) in this environment would either be improbable or result in delays given the limited amount of funds we have,


Not really, R&D / DRDO will get sufficient funds to pursue new weapons development.

I don't follow the discussion what part S-400 needs to be developed with exception of XR SAM they are all there as part of layered air defense system with various systems. Instead ofone system being jack of all trades like S-400.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby A Sharma » 06 May 2018 06:50

L&T Defence to Produce Quad Launcher for BRAHMOS Missiles

L&T Defence, the defence arm of Larsen & Toubro (L&T) and one of the leading industry partners of BrahMos Aerospace Pvt. Ltd. (BAPL), has successfully completed the design and prototype realisation of the ‘Quadruple Canisterised Inclined Launcher’ (QCIL or Quad Launcher) for BRAHMOS missiles and after rigorous trials, has handed over the prototype Quad Launcher to BAPL, at an event today.

The Quad Launcher is designed for launching BRAHMOS supersonic cruise missiles in an inclined configuration on-board Indian Naval ships. The launcher provides superior firepower as compared to the twin canister, deck mounted launchers and has a capability to support and launch four missiles in a single or salvo mode. The new Quad Launcher is suitable for warships which have space constraints to accommodate a Vertical Launch Module.

Mr. Jayant Patil, Whole-time Director (Defence) and Member of L&T Board, handed over QCIL prototype to Dr. Sudhir Mishra, Director General (BrahMos) DRDO and CEO & MD, BrahMos Aerospace, at an event held at L&T Defence’ Strategic Systems Complex near Pune. The production units of the QCIL will be ready for deployment on Indian Naval Ships in next 18 months.

Speaking on the occasion, Mr. Jayant Patil said, “We have been associated with the development of BRAHMOS missile programme since 2000, when as part of the composite team led by DRDO, we engaged with the Russian Federation and embarked on this vast project. As proven partners of all variants of Naval missile launchers for BRAHMOS, we took up the design of the unique Quad Launcher and realised the prototype in 18 months. The Launcher underwent rigorous testing, including by the NPOM specialists, prior to receiving of production clearance. L&T will now take up the bulk production of the Quad Launchers.”

While receiving the new launcher, Dr. Sudhir Mishra said, “BrahMos has taken an exemplary lead in the Indian Government’s ‘Make-In-India’ drive. In fact, BrahMos Aerospace practices ‘Design-In-India’ – the next level of ‘Make-In-India’, which has resulted in the establishment of a consortium of over 200 industries involved in the design, development, testing and production of various systems and sub-systems for the universal BRAHMOS missile and its various ground / air / sea based systems.”

“The BrahMos concept of ‘Mind-to-Market’ has led to technology development along with skilled manpower creation and a huge business, thus leading to in-country wealth generation,” Dr. Mishra remarked while adding that, “Our major partner L&T is an ideal example of ‘Design-In-India’ and ‘Make-In-India’ today.”

As a leading industry partner of BrahMos Aerospace, L&T has been closely involved in the design, development and production of the Launchers & Fire Control Systems for naval platforms as well as development and production of key aero-structural sections of the formidable BRAHMOS Weapon System.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby John » 06 May 2018 07:58

About time, inclined launchers should allow us to phase out Styx missiles and eventually Uran missiles and replace them with 8 Brahmos.
Last edited by John on 06 May 2018 08:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Pratyush » 06 May 2018 07:59

Will be a great development of ships of Delhi and project 16a. As well as missile boats. Plus the Kora class.

Very exciting development.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Singha » 06 May 2018 10:20

so finally - we are falling into keeping heavy ASMs in quad packs inclined amidships like china and most western ships do?

we should do this for all ships and free up the entire foredeck for SAMs and nirbhays(if needed).

also our ships need to get wider to 20 meters to permit two helicopter hangers but with a huge VLS mag in between
Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby kit » 06 May 2018 12:08

John wrote:
kit wrote:
Not really, R&D / DRDO will get sufficient funds to pursue new weapons development.

I don't follow the discussion what part S-400 needs to be developed with exception of XR SAM they are all there as part of layered air defense system with various systems. Instead ofone system being jack of all trades like S-400.


3 or 4 layered systems may not work efficiently if they are not put together to work effectively , so now India needs to put its PADs Akash MRSAMs all together !!!

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Neela » 06 May 2018 12:57

Excerpt from an Whatsapp investment group I am part of.
Company is LMW. Their ATC division is a high margin biz which could be hived off.
Another data point here is Def Min Sri.N.Sitharam identifying Coimbatore as defence manufacturing corridor.
LMW is already a established player with UAC,HAL, ISRO,TAL, Dassault,Fokker as its customers.
Game Changer-2
SMALL TURBO FAN ENGINE … for Mass production
Recently DRDO has transferred technology to build Small turbo fan engine to LMW ATC division
http://www.bharatdefencekavach.com/news/Defence%20Expo%202012/drdo-celebrates-make-inindia-spirit-in-defexpo-2018/64759.html

The Small Turbo Fan Engine will be mainly used in “Nirbhay” which is a sub sonic cruise missile just as
USA Tomahawk and Pakistan Babur. Another usage of this engine will be in UAV
The Small Turbo Fan is a miniature 4.25 kN engine – designated MANIK – from DRDO’s Gas Turbine
Research Establishment which is now transferred to LMW ATC as per latest announcement.
The Nirbhay has a strike range of up to 1,000 km. It can travel at a cruise speed of Mach 0.7 and an
altitude as low as 100 m. It is a lethal combat machine which works on terrain hugging profile and that
makes its detection delayed by radars. Nirbhay is more of a clever weapon, as it can not only wait in air
for the right time to strike, it can also carry about 24 difference types of payloads
See below image to understand terrain hugging technology

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby John » 06 May 2018 16:47

kit wrote:
John wrote:I don't follow the discussion what part S-400 needs to be developed with exception of XR SAM they are all there as part of layered air defense system with various systems. Instead ofone system being jack of all trades like S-400.


3 or 4 layered systems may not work efficiently if they are not put together to work effectively , so now India needs to put its PADs Akash MRSAMs all together !!!


Even if it's single system you still need to integrate it with existing radars. Also there is simply not enough money to purchase S-400 to provide comprehensive air defense even Russia had to rely on Buk to fill the gap. Even MRSAM can provide short range air defense but price is reason why Akash is used to fill that gap.



so finally - we are falling into keeping heavy ASMs in quad packs inclined amidships like china and most western ships do?



It is for smaller vessels that do not have adequate space for VLS mount like next generation missile corvette and also existing vessels like Delhi.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Vips » 06 May 2018 21:26

BrahMos to attain 76% localisation in six months.

BrahMos, the world's fastest supersonic cruise missile, will be achieving 75 per cent localisation in the next six months from the current 65 per cent domestic components that goes into its production, a top BrahMos Aerospace official has said.

"As of today 65 per cent of the value (in BrahMos) is created in India. We started with a very low 10-12 per cent indigenisation and today we have reached 65 per cent. In another six months, we would be close to 75 per cent," BrahMos Aerospace managing director and CEO Sudhir Mishra said at the handing over ceremony of the prototype Quad launcher manufactured by L&T Defence, the defence arm of Larsen & Toubro (L&T) here over the weekend.

"Last March, we flight tested the indigenously made seeker, and booster also would be shortly tested in about two months. We would be reaching to a localization of about 85 per cent in this," he said.

The Quad launcher is designed for supersonic cruise missiles in an inclined configuration on-board our navy ships. The launcher provides superior firepower as compared to the twin cannister, deck mounted launchers and has the capability to support and launch four missiles in a single or salvo mode.

The new Quad launcher is suitable for warships which have space constraints to accommodate a vertical launch module.

"With this smart launcher, eight missiles (four on the right and four on the left side of the ship) can be launched simultaneously. Though we are yet to get the order from the navy we have started work. We have invested in technology, knowledge and future business. We are just waiting for the order," Mishra said.

He said the Quad launcher can go not only to INS Delhi class of ships but to any ship in the world where it can position the quads launcher with a bit of tweaking in the mechanism.

"With some tweaking here and there, tomorrow when we export BrahMos, which we wish happens soon, we would be integrating the launcher on foreign vessels also also," he added.

"We have been associated with the development of BrahMos programme since 2000, when as part of the composite team led by the DRDO, we engaged with the Russia and embarked on this vast project. As proven partners of all variants of naval missile launchers for BrahMos, we took up the design of the unique Quad Launcher and realised the prototype in 18 months. The Launcher underwent rigorous testing prior to receiving of production clearance. L&T Board said.

As a leading industry partner of BrahMos Aerospace, L&T has been closely involved in the design, development and production of the launchers and fire control systems for naval platforms as well as development and production of key aero-structural sections of the formidable BrahMos Weapon System.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Philip » 07 May 2018 13:27

It is the IAF that has made acquiring the S-400 a top priority,according to last official reports on the same.The manner in which Israel is trying desperately to stop even S-300 missiles sold to Syria and Iran shows how lethal these missiles are. Until we are able to design,develop and produce our equiv. ABM/SAM system,it allows a window of opportunity to both China and Pak,a strategic weakness in our defences. This has to be plugged asap.

The BMos quad launcher is excellent news,but what we require asap is the series production of the smaller BMos-NG,which will allow our 400t missile craft to be equipped with it,with a same speed and 300km range,but perhaps a slightly smaller warhead. This again will be a multi-platform missile ,greatly enhancing the striking power of even our med. sized aircraft like MIG-29s/29Ks,Rafales and able to be launched form std. sized torpedo tubes.
accelerated development of BMos-H is also of paramount importance given the huge thrust by the Chins for their own H-missile.

It will be interesting to see whether the first P-15s (Delhis) will accommodate 2 or 4 BMos quad packs. I think that there is enough space forward on either side of the SAN-7 and MBU launchers for 2 quad packs,but they may have to face dead ahead instead of outwards. In the pic of an L&T inclined launcher under dev.,the high angle of the launcher may indicate that it could be fitted either way.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby JayS » 07 May 2018 17:58

Neela wrote:Excerpt from an Whatsapp investment group I am part of.
Company is LMW. Their ATC division is a high margin biz which could be hived off.
Another data point here is Def Min Sri.N.Sitharam identifying Coimbatore as defence manufacturing corridor.
LMW is already a established player with UAC,HAL, ISRO,TAL, Dassault,Fokker as its customers.
Game Changer-2
SMALL TURBO FAN ENGINE … for Mass production
Recently DRDO has transferred technology to build Small turbo fan engine to LMW ATC division
http://www.bharatdefencekavach.com/news/Defence%20Expo%202012/drdo-celebrates-make-inindia-spirit-in-defexpo-2018/64759.html

The Small Turbo Fan Engine will be mainly used in “Nirbhay” which is a sub sonic cruise missile just as
USA Tomahawk and Pakistan Babur. Another usage of this engine will be in UAV
The Small Turbo Fan is a miniature 4.25 kN engine – designated MANIK – from DRDO’s Gas Turbine
Research Establishment which is now transferred to LMW ATC as per latest announcement.
The Nirbhay has a strike range of up to 1,000 km. It can travel at a cruise speed of Mach 0.7 and an
altitude as low as 100 m. It is a lethal combat machine which works on terrain hugging profile and that
makes its detection delayed by radars. Nirbhay is more of a clever weapon, as it can not only wait in air
for the right time to strike, it can also carry about 24 difference types of payloads
See below image to understand terrain hugging technology


Even Bharat Forge got ToT for STFE. Looks like multiple entities got component level ToT.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Neela » 07 May 2018 18:20

JayS wrote:Even Bharat Forge got ToT for STFE. Looks like multiple entities got component level ToT.


JayS Sir,
I can forward the document if you would like. LMW is a Tier I supplier for HAL - so they do have tidbits on other a/c too.

Please let me know by DM.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby John » 11 May 2018 20:16

Philip wrote:It is the IAF that has made acquiring the S-400 a top priority,according to last official reports on the same.The manner in which Israel is trying desperately to stop even S-300 missiles sold to Syria and Iran shows how lethal these missiles are. Until we are able to design,develop and produce our equiv. ABM/SAM system,it allows a window of opportunity to both China and Pak,a strategic weakness in our defences. This has to be plugged asap.
.

For starters Israel is trying to stop Yakhont and Ballistic missile shipment not S-300, it has been mainly US which raised concerns about S-300. By the time S-400 come online domestic ABM should be available and currently there is simply not enough money to use S-400 to provide complete ABM coverage.

Also as i said with exception of XRSAM which even western nations do not operate, all pieces of S-400 can already be addressed by domestic equivalent. In fact i would say MR-SAM is superior to S-400 equivalent. IMO with budget constraint, US embargo and S-400s going MIA in recent strikes by US i am pretty the deal is all but dead.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby habal » 11 May 2018 21:30

S-400 is not the name of one missile or missile system. It is the brain behind an integrated missile defence system which contains short range, medium range, long range and xtra long range missile systems. So unless all missile systems are in place S-400 makes no sense, where S-400 is capable is that it can use software algorithms to discern decoys from loaded warheads in a swarm attack. This is my understanding now, is it correct ?

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby John » 11 May 2018 23:10

habal wrote:S-400 is not the name of one missile or missile system. It is the brain behind an integrated missile defence system which contains short range, medium range, long range and xtra long range missile systems. So unless all missile systems are in place S-400 makes no sense, where S-400 is capable is that it can use software algorithms to discern decoys from loaded warheads in a swarm attack. This is my understanding now, is it correct ?

With 5 systems and around 500 missiles at over 5+ billion there is simply not enough money to buy everything S-400 offers and provide adequate coverage. I am all for S-400 if we stuck to original requirements of 12 systems but Russia hit us with cost escalation

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 12 May 2018 00:27

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habal wrote:S-400 is not the name of one missile or missile system. It is the brain behind an integrated missile defence system which contains short range, medium range, long range and xtra long range missile systems. So unless all missile systems are in place S-400 makes no sense, where S-400 is capable is that it can use software algorithms to discern decoys from loaded warheads in a swarm attack. This is my understanding now, is it correct ?


S-400 is a missile system. You are mixing it up with something like Aegis's C3I.

S-400 comes with radars, C3I, missiles - everything all together. You can choose additional options to add like anti-stealth detector radars.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby SiddharthS » 12 May 2018 04:26

kit wrote:
SiddharthS wrote:Developing domestic product(S-3/400 equivalent) in this environment would either be improbable or result in delays given the limited amount of funds we have,


Not really, R&D / DRDO will get sufficient funds to pursue new weapons development.


Not if we did the unthinkable: buying the S-400. If anyone thinks that we can spend billions of dollars on an imported system and simultaneously develop the domestic alternative, then prepare to be underwhelmed. We just do not have that kind of money. Nobody does.

If there is 'X' amount of funds given for developing or procuring a system -like SAM, fifth gen aircraft, AESA radar; then 100% of that money must be spent on development or procurement of domestic system. There must not be any leakages.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Singha » 12 May 2018 07:59

The s300 400 500 is nothing special in terms of missiles

We need to ioc maitri and ak630 mki as point defence combo
We need to ioc akash mk2 and buy more mk1
Mrsam is already indented
We need to deploy pad aad in numbers
We need to develop the planned ad1 and ad2 as thaad

And a large domestic c3i network to tie these into adges already there i think...will not be as smooth looking initially as imports but being sw driven it can be improved using domestic efforts

Just money and push is needed not imports

They may have good radars we can offer to buy some radars and work on desi analogues in parallel

I figure the s400 is a bribe to appease russia to keep the good stuff flowing on some fronts like ssn . They have been losing all major import deals for ten years now in india. It was chosen as the most effective return on bribe vs more mig29k or t90 lol

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Austin » 12 May 2018 08:21

XLRSAM is a requirement from IAF and we’ll document in mod to report to parliament , The IAF chief in a recent interview posted in iaf dhaga said the same.

They are buying more Sam squadron to compensate for the lower fighter squadron iaf has and wants , time tested strategy since 60s

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Cain Marko » 12 May 2018 12:55

^ +1.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby dinesha » 12 May 2018 13:42

20 Yrs After Pokhran-II Nuclear Tests, India Begins Inducting Agni-5 ICBM With 5,000 Km Range
https://www.indiatimes.com/news/india/2 ... 45219.html

-Rajat Pandit Updated: May 12, 2018

India has kicked off the process to induct its first intercontinental ballistic missile Agni-V into the Strategic Forces Command (SFC), 20 years after the country conducted the five Pokhran-II underground nuclear tests under 'Operation Shakti'.

Defence sources on Friday said "several systems and subsystems" associated with the over 5,000-km-range missile, which brings the whole of China as well as parts of Europe and Africa under its strike range, "are being handed over" to the new Agni-V unit raised under the SFC.

"The second pre-induction trial of Agni-V is slated to take place soon (the first one was on January 18 this year, after four developmental trials since April 2012). If successful like the earlier tests, the Agni-V unit with its missiles can be shifted to a strategic base," said a source
.

While some Sukhoi-30MKI, Mirage-2000 and Jaguar fighters have also been jury-rigged to make them capable of delivering nuclear bombs, the third leg of the "nuclear triad" is represented only by the solitary nuclear ballistic missile submarine (SSBN) INS Arihant as of now.

While the "weak" underwater leg is a continuing concern because SSBNs are considered the most secure and effective platforms for retaliatory nuclear strikes, especially for a country like India that has a declared "no first-use (NFU)" policy, sources say the SFC and the PM-led Nuclear Command Authority (NCA) have taken "big strides" since they were created in January, 2003.

There is, of course, the longstanding controversy over whether India actually achieved its "declared yields" in the 1998 Pokhran-II nuclear detonations, which included a 15 kiloton fission device, a 45 kiloton thermonuclear device (hydrogen bomb) and three sub-kiloton devices.

Some experts have even called for junking the NFU policy because India is faced with two nuclear-armed hostile neighbours.

But such debates apart, sources say a lot of work has been carried out to establish underground nuclear command posts, command and control centres as well as strategic missile bases at different locations.

"Redundancies, alternative chains of command, targeting strategies for retaliation and operating procedures for 'launch on attack', among other things, have been ensured," said another source.


"Till SSBNs with nuclear missiles over 3,500-km range are inducted, the Agni missiles and nuclear glide bombs delivered by fighters will remain the mainstay of India's deterrence posture," he added.

Operational deployment of the over 50-tonne Agni-V, which will take about a year, will add some much-needed teeth to the deterrence posture against China. Agni-V, which carries a 1.5-tonne nuclear warhead, is more deadly than the earlier Agni variants because it's a canister-launch missile to ensure swift transportation and firing. "It reduces the response time as well as ensures higher reliability with less maintenance," said the source.

Before the test in January, the three-stage Agni-V underwent four "developmental trials", with "open configuration" tests in April 2012 and September 2013. Then, it was test-fired from hermetically sealed canisters mounted on transport-cum-tilting launcher trucks in January, 2015 and December, 2016.


India kicks off process to induct its first inter-continental ballistic missile, Agni-V
https://www.indiatvnews.com/news/india- ... i-v-441891

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Singha » 13 May 2018 15:59

while people here have been enthusiastic about the new gen tiny missiles packed dozens to a box that are supposed to defend static targets like camps and airbases from missiles, LGBs and gliding bombs, this article from 2014 casts doubt on the effectiveness of the iron dome which is the most well known of such systems
https://thebulletin.org/evidence-shows- ... orking7318

if this be true, the truck mounted meaty guns of the Phalanx C-RAM, oerlikon sky shield, Pantsyr, AK360 is the right tool at the right price point for this thankless job.

perhaps the truth is already known to our military planners, hence the lack of noises about imports of such a missile system or calls to develop one domestically?

the revolution as they say, is not always in change for the sake of change....


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