Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

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kurup
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby kurup » 15 Jul 2018 11:11

300+km range missile test scheduled for 16/17 July ,

https://twitter.com/kurup89/status/1017773406782013440

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby SSridhar » 15 Jul 2018 13:08

sum wrote:In case junta has not watched the RSTV programme on Agni 5, pls do on YouTube.


Link

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby nrshah » 15 Jul 2018 18:20

I don't understand why they keep saying out deterrence and interest of 6K kms only.

This is just short to medium term. Once we cross 5 TN USD of economic size, I am sure we will build new adversaries in West including Euro and USA. We need to prepare out self for them as well. Will we start developing them then it are we expecting the west will allow India raise unabated while they are shrink...

We need to develop missile that can cover any Inch of this earth... That will our deterrence...

Deterrence is not country specific, it is for all countries that has nukes

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby pankajs » 16 Jul 2018 10:59

What is the need to beat drum on a world conquering missile? Let's us perfect the current one and deploy it in sufficient quantity for the immediate future deterrence.

The comments on the current target range too must be take as position for "short to medium" term. There is nothing sacrosanct about a position not even our declared nuclear policy of NFU. It will continue to evolve as needed. This need not even be stated.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Kakarat » 16 Jul 2018 11:25

https://twitter.com/writetake/status/10 ... 1866183681

Life extension test of world class supersonic cruise #missile #BrahMos conducted successffully from a defence base off #Odisha coast amidst inclement weather proving it one of the best all-weather weapon systems.


Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby jaysimha » 16 Jul 2018 15:31

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DTG 111001Z/JUL 18
FROM NAVAREA VIII CO-ORDINATOR TO NAVAREA VIII – 487
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
INDIA EAST COAST – OFF BALASORE (.) CHARTS 31 351 352 INT 71 (.)
EXPERIMENTAL FLIGHT TRIAL SCHEDULED FROM ITR ON 16, 17 JUL 18 FROM 0430-0630 AND 0930-1130 UTC
IN DANGER ZONE BOUNDED BY
21-22.59N 086-56.31E,
21-21.98N 086-55.86E,
21-19.15N 086-54.49E,
21-07.57N 086-50.5E,
20-37.98N 087-13.96E,
18-58.14N 088-40.26E,
19-19.14N 089-06.24E,
20-58.15N 087-39.59E,
21-24.97N 087-12.66E,
21-23.32N 086-59.81E

2. CANCEL THIS MSG 171230 UTC JUL 18

http://www.hydrobharat.gov.in/downloads ... _force.pdf

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby pankajs » 16 Jul 2018 17:19

Manu Pubby @manupubby

On today's Brahmos test - precision strike missile followed designated trajectory. Test took place in sea-state 7 with waves as high as 9 meters, demonstrating all weather capability.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Kakarat » 16 Jul 2018 17:21

https://twitter.com/DefenceMinIndia/sta ... 2920952832

BRAHMOS, the supersonic cruise missile was successfully tested from Integrated Test Range at Balasore, Odisha at 1017 hrs today. The test was under extreme weather conditions with sea-state 7 (waves as high as 9 m). Smt @nsitharaman congratulates @DRDO_India & Team Brahmos. 1/2

The missile was tested as part of the service life extension program for the Indian Army. This successful @DRDO_India trial validates the extension and reinforces the all-weather capabilities of the BRAHMOS missile.
2/2

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby sum » 16 Jul 2018 19:19

Any news on Nirbhay which seems in cold storage again?

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 16 Jul 2018 22:33

I don't get the sea state information being given for a land based launch of IA version of the Brahmos?

I understand they did life extension of the vehicle.

Earlier DRDO used to refrain from missile tests in heavy rain and testing season was limited from November to May before the onset of monsoon.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Indranil » 16 Jul 2018 23:31

The test was out at sea. Please see Kurup's message on the NAVAREA. If it was sea skimming than there are implications of the sea state. And a sea state of 7 means that there were very strong winds and rain. This is as "all-weather" as it gets.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby dkhare » 17 Jul 2018 01:25

John wrote:
“S-400’s recent performance in Syria showed how effective it can be in the desert and on various types of landscapes, which led to a queue of countries with similar weather conditions namely the Persian Gulf states that wish to acquire it,” says the expert.


What exactly did Russia S-400 do Syria other being deployed and having some pics taken of it? So far it has never done anything in combat, Syrian S-300 and Pantsyr have failed to shoot down any missiles to date either.


I too have been wondering about the same thing. I heard the US DoD press briefing after the second strike on Syria where they stated not a single missile was shot down. The S-400 was in place and manned by Russians during the second strike.

Either:
1. The Russians tried and could not shoot down a single incoming missile threat. Were they jammed? Did missiles malfunction? If these included Tomahawks, then why could they not shoot even a single sub-sonic missile down? Not a good advertisement of the S-400's capabilities.
2. The Russians did shoot down a few missiles but did not acknowledge it and kept it secret?! Imagine the propaganda value of that - so very unlikely.
3. There was an agreement between the Allies and the Russians that none of the bases or areas of Russian interests were going to be hit and thus the Russians did not engage incoming threats. However, it would be strange for the Russians to trust the Americans when their men were under threat of attack.

It is widely speculated that the earlier S-200 or S-300 system being operated by the Syrians was compromised by the Israelis and that is why they can strike targets within Syria with impunity even before the arrival of the F-35s.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Indranil » 17 Jul 2018 04:47

That is a very tough benchmark you are setting for any air defense system. ​The world has to figure out new physics to detect cruise missiles flying at tree top levels. Doesn't matter if it is a desi system, Russian system or Western system. Wonder why the US didn't send in fighter jets instead?

S-400s are one of the deadliest AAD out there. I have not known a single person who is in the know and argues otherwise.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby wig » 17 Jul 2018 09:47

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... 21802.html

BrahMos with ‘Make in India’ sub-system fired
The test launch comes close on the heels of two trials in May in which the major sub-systems manufactured indigenously under the ‘Make in India’ campaign were tested

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Philip » 17 Jul 2018 10:19

9m high waves during hhe test.Perfect result.Great show!

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby jaysimha » 17 Jul 2018 14:51

http://pib.nic.in/PressReleaseIframePag ... ID=1538748
Successful Test Firing of Brahmos to Validate Service Life Extension

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby John » 17 Jul 2018 16:55

Indranil wrote:That is a very tough benchmark you are setting for any air defense system. ​The world has to figure out new physics to detect cruise missiles flying at tree top levels. Doesn't matter if it is a desi system, Russian system or Western system. Wonder why the US didn't send in fighter jets instead?

S-400s are one of the deadliest AAD out there. I have not known a single person who is in the know and argues otherwise.

No one is arguing S-400 is effective but we seem point to any shrewd of data to show its great system on earth, the piece basically said S-400 in Syria showed it's deadly effectiveness. It seems like every rational is being made purchase even though currently paying S-400 per system than China or Turkey and all data points to little to no domestic firm involvement in the deal and no TOT.

So not really improving our own R&D capabilities in ABM or Air Defense for 6+ billion that will be spent, unlike the Chinese I doubt MOD would allow any attempts to study or reverse engineer without Russians blessing.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby dkhare » 17 Jul 2018 22:08

John wrote:
Indranil wrote:That is a very tough benchmark you are setting for any air defense system. ​The world has to figure out new physics to detect cruise missiles flying at tree top levels. Doesn't matter if it is a desi system, Russian system or Western system. Wonder why the US didn't send in fighter jets instead?

S-400s are one of the deadliest AAD out there. I have not known a single person who is in the know and argues otherwise.

No one is arguing S-400 is effective but we seem point to any shrewd of data to show its great system on earth, the piece basically said S-400 in Syria showed it's deadly effectiveness. It seems like every rational is being made purchase even though currently paying S-400 per system than China or Turkey and all data points to little to no domestic firm involvement in the deal and no TOT.

So not really improving our own R&D capabilities in ABM or Air Defense for 6+ billion that will be spent, unlike the Chinese I doubt MOD would allow any attempts to study or reverse engineer without Russians blessing.


Indranil, first I don't claim to be in the know and nor am I advocating against the S-400. I get your point of needing to figure out how to shoot down missiles flying at tree top levels. We first saw the Tomahawks in 1991 during GW1 and it still is a problem...

I am just wondering why did we not hear anything about its use in real combat conditions against threats that it is advertised to take down. I remember seeing some blurry videos of Syrian air defence missile launches in response too but don't know if they were part of the S-400 or not. We too anticipate swarms of Chinese & Pakistani cruise missiles being launched in the first wave against our Air Force and Army bases and other strategic targets. Isn't it one of the reasons to purchase it so that we can defend against them? I know S-400 also has some longer range missiles to shoot down targets at longer ranges too providing layered air defense. Makes one wonder...

If it worked, the Russians would not let go of the opportunity to use it for own propaganda purposes. It would help sell a lot more of them...
If it didn't work, we need to be worried as to the reasons why.
If it wasn't allowed to engage, then that's geo-political situation where based on some negotiation, they allowed missiles to rain down on targets.

John, even if we negotiate & pay for transfer of technology, we may not get it just like the T-90 related items that never came through...

We have to stand on our own - must pump more resources into our own R&D...

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Indranil » 18 Jul 2018 00:46

See, I don't think that I have clear my stand about where I stand on money being spent on desi RnD. On the AAD I am happy that the money is flowing. Probably not enough, but steadily enough. And you are seeing the layers come up, both for radars and the missiles. First, the MRSAM system (radars and missiles have been operationalized). The QRSAM missile is being tested. Radar system for that range exists. And finally, the XRSAM system is currently in design (we have the building blocks for both the missiles and the radars). The last piece is going to have the command control such that all these systems work in an integrated manner. This will be our S-400 equivalent. But, we need 10 years to test everything and get it operationalized.

Till then, we have to have a stop gap using imports. Of all the importable systems, S-400 is one of the most capable, least expensive and least strings attached. Even DRDO supports this acquisition.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 18 Jul 2018 00:48

DRDO is neck deep into radars and missile programs. They have so much on their plate already.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby John » 18 Jul 2018 01:16

Indranil wrote:
Till then, we have to have a stop gap using imports. Of all the importable systems, S-400 is one of the most capable, least expensive and least strings attached. Even DRDO supports this acquisition.


Least expensive for what purpose? MR SAM is far cheaper alternative for mid to long range SAM and Cruise missile defense. Only role that it cannot provide is Extra long range and intercepting Mid and Long range Ballistic missiles.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Singha » 18 Jul 2018 09:53

imo its better to invest in more radars + fighters + awacs than big IADS. more agility and versatile and less vulnerable to some sudden new weapon or countermeasure or swarming.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Cain Marko » 18 Jul 2018 11:06

^ in the long term, yes this is true. But in the near haul, they seemed to have prioritized a solution in the s400 to do a bit of each and provide redundancy vs bms too. Minimal Point defense, and early warning coupled with area defense against enemy targets. Even low end fighters in numbers along with aew and radars will cost quite a bit. Not to me ton the time taken for orders to materialize. They went with the low hanging fruit.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Chinmay » 23 Jul 2018 13:02

NASAMS for India?

Is this DDM? I've never heard of the IAF being remotely interested in NASAMS, given that the IAF already operates Spyder and Akash, and will soon operate S-400

Edit: Fixed broken link
Last edited by Chinmay on 23 Jul 2018 16:05, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 23 Jul 2018 13:41

Wasteful political purchase, an unfortunate necessity to appease the great khan, given the Barak-8 blows NASAMs out of the water, and the SpyDer is equivalent, and the Akash Mk1 is far cheaper.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 23 Jul 2018 13:47

Singha wrote:imo its better to invest in more radars + fighters + awacs than big IADS. more agility and versatile and less vulnerable to some sudden new weapon or countermeasure or swarming.


Yes in principle, but here no fighters are in the pipeline so the IAF is desparate for the S-400. Pappuji is doing his best to ensure no new Rafales either.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ArjunPandit » 23 Jul 2018 14:15

Chinmay wrote:NASAMS for India?

Is this DDM? I've never heard of the IAF being remotely interested in NASAMS, given that the IAF already operates Spyder and Akash, and will soon operate S-400

link broken!

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Chinmay » 23 Jul 2018 16:05

ArjunPandit wrote:
Chinmay wrote:NASAMS for India?

Is this DDM? I've never heard of the IAF being remotely interested in NASAMS, given that the IAF already operates Spyder and Akash, and will soon operate S-400

link broken!


Fixed

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby kit » 23 Jul 2018 18:01

dkhare wrote:
John wrote:What exactly did Russia S-400 do Syria other being deployed and having some pics taken of it? So far it has never done anything in combat, Syrian S-300 and Pantsyr have failed to shoot down any missiles to date either.


I too have been wondering about the same thing. I heard the US DoD press briefing after the second strike on Syria where they stated not a single missile was shot down. The S-400 was in place and manned by Russians during the second strike.

Either:
1. The Russians tried and could not shoot down a single incoming missile threat. Were they jammed? Did missiles malfunction? If these included Tomahawks, then why could they not shoot even a single sub-sonic missile down? Not a good advertisement of the S-400's capabilities.
2. The Russians did shoot down a few missiles but did not acknowledge it and kept it secret?! Imagine the propaganda value of that - so very unlikely.
3. There was an agreement between the Allies and the Russians that none of the bases or areas of Russian interests were going to be hit and thus the Russians did not engage incoming threats. However, it would be strange for the Russians to trust the Americans when their men were under threat of attack.

It is widely speculated that the earlier S-200 or S-300 system being operated by the Syrians was compromised by the Israelis and that is why they can strike targets within Syria with impunity even before the arrival of the F-35s.


According to Russian sources they were able to accurately track and ? Target every missile but they did not "engage"

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby kit » 23 Jul 2018 18:04

Russians did come under fire..apparently they were mercenaries .. and quite a few were killed with zero losses to western commandos .. it was a direct conflict between them

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Trikaal » 23 Jul 2018 18:11

Chinmay wrote:NASAMS for India?

Is this DDM? I've never heard of the IAF being remotely interested in NASAMS, given that the IAF already operates Spyder and Akash, and will soon operate S-400

Edit: Fixed broken link

Dafaq? Why are we buying this? Is there too much tax collection by GST? If pleasing Uncle Khan is so important, then buy EMALS and make Navy happy. Or buy more Predators or Apaches or Naval Helis or even Poseidon P-8Is. All these would actually serve us better than buying this system.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Arun.prabhu » 23 Jul 2018 20:59

You’re confusing two separate incidents. One is when Trump ordered missile strikes against Syrian targets, where the Russians did not engage the missiles, and the other is where Russian mercenaries tried to force a crossing and the Americans had enough advance intelligence to prep their long range bombers and commit mayhem. They absolutely plastered the Russians who were making the assault.

kit wrote:Russians did come under fire..apparently they were mercenaries .. and quite a few were killed with zero losses to western commandos .. it was a direct conflict between them

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby abhik » 24 Jul 2018 08:36

NASAMS news from last year (which i thought was fake news/lifafa) :evil:
Delhi may soon get US aerial defence formula against missile threats

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby barath_s » 29 Jul 2018 14:35

The 2+2 meet with the US has been delayed/canceled in light of Iran/CAATSA related issues; multiple deals including the 24 S-60 helicopters have been kept pending on that meet. Is NASAMS-2 also another incentive for that meeting ? Will it progress before or after that meet ?

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 181833.cms

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby John » 29 Jul 2018 17:50

abhik wrote:NASAMS news from last year (which i thought was fake news/lifafa) :evil:
Delhi may soon get US aerial defence formula against missile threats

NASAMS seems to be taking QRSAM place? Not sure why it's needed when there is MR-SAM, atleast for latter it offers a cheaper and more mobile alternative.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Austin » 29 Jul 2018 21:37

Looks like we have serious issue when it comes to procurement and duplicating things , if indiginous Akash , Akash-NG under works and Spyder cant do the same job more effectively as NASAMS or even better then our procurement system is seriously flawed.

All NASAMS does is convert an A2A missile to G2A , We might well spend $1 billion or less and convert Astra or Astra-NG for the same role. An A2A missile is always less optimised to do a G2A role.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby nam » 29 Jul 2018 22:01

So we are getting AIM-120..wonder which version it will be.

If the deal goes through, I presume this is the "blood money" for the S-400 buy.
It could also mean F-16/F-18 are not coming. Else we could have got Aim-120 along with them.

And we get to play the AIM-120 with our ECM... wonder who has AIM-120 in our neighborhood :D

Aim-120, Mica, R27/77, Meteor, Derby ER, Astra.. ..A real deterrent.. :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Pratyush » 29 Jul 2018 22:33

Oh boy the mod turns every purchase into a circus. We have completed astra. With little effort it can be turned into a short range SAM. But we are going to buy an American system.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Rishi_Tri » 29 Jul 2018 22:41

nam wrote:So we are getting AIM-120..wonder which version it will be.

If the deal goes through, I presume this is the "blood money" for the S-400 buy.
It could also mean F-16/F-18 are not coming. Else we could have got Aim-120 along with them.

And we get to play the AIM-120 with our ECM... wonder who has AIM-120 in our neighborhood :D

Aim-120, Mica, R27/77, Meteor, Derby ER, Astra.. ..A real deterrent.. :rotfl:


I can almost hear the ground crew saying.. "Abe AIM kyon laya.. Ispe sirf Derby lagti hai.. chalo lagate hain ... dekhte hain kya hota hai .. shayad chal jaye .. " :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby nam » 29 Jul 2018 22:52

Pratyush wrote:Oh boy the mod turns every purchase into a circus. We have completed astra. With little effort it can be turned into a short range SAM. But we are going to buy an American system.


It would have a mess, if we were buying a Russian SRSAM. A SRSAM with Aim-120 is worth it.

Remember the most important adversary to IAF.. is Aim-120 on PAF F-16s.

We should have got this long time back.


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