Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

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kit
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby kit » 23 Sep 2018 21:24

Mukesh.Kumar wrote:
Karan M wrote:
And where will we source that DU from?


From neighbourhood chaiwala?


for one thing use of depleted uranium rounds is extremely irresponsible., its irradiating a large part of land inhospitable for centuries.

granted it is far dense than a tungsten round but its a definite no in a humanitarian sense

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Yugandhar » 23 Sep 2018 21:35

Depleted Uranium is not radioactive as even natural uranium. It is 'depleted' of the radioactive isotope and is a byproduct of the uranium enrichment process . It is still a health hazard as uranium is a heavy metal. All heavy metals are toxic.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Picklu » 23 Sep 2018 21:57

kit wrote:
Mukesh.Kumar wrote:
From neighbourhood chaiwala?


for one thing use of depleted uranium rounds is extremely irresponsible., its irradiating a large part of land inhospitable for centuries.

granted it is far dense than a tungsten round but its a definite no in a humanitarian sense


Actually tungsten is denser (19.3 vs 19.1 of DU).

But, DU has a few magical properties - self sharpening and catching fire on collision - that makes it a better penetrator.

However, being a heavy metal, it is highly toxic and extremely health hazard for the same magical properties above for even the own troops.
Last edited by Picklu on 23 Sep 2018 22:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby prasannasimha » 23 Sep 2018 22:05

Depleted uranium is also very dense.With proper coating it has been used in armour of the Abrams tank ! However it would be pretty heavy missile for a manportable missile system.
We ised to be shiwn equivalent weight of a one Tola gold bar. This is still heavier !!

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby AdityaM » 23 Sep 2018 22:52

Hemant Kumar Rout:

#BREAKING First night #BMD test in salvo mode, the hot standby interceptor #missile capable of destroying enemy weapon system at high altitude of above 100 km flight tested against a target missile fired from a warship off #Odisha coast. Data is being analysed. @NewIndianXpress

https://twitter.com/hemant_tnie/status/ ... 02016?s=21

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Trikaal » 24 Sep 2018 00:39

Do we care about Depleted Uranium's toxicity? For one, it will only be used on Paki land. Secondly, with so many nuclear plants coming up, it might be a good way to dispose off some waste. As for humanity, who will blame us? US and UK used it in Middle-East with impunity.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Picklu » 24 Sep 2018 00:48

Trikaal wrote:Do we care about Depleted Uranium's toxicity? For one, it will only be used on Paki land. Secondly, with so many nuclear plants coming up, it might be a good way to dispose off some waste. As for humanity, who will blame us? US and UK used it in Middle-East with impunity.


In peace time, it would be our logistical guys handling these within our border. That would be 99% of the time.

Check the health issues and other hazards suffered by US and UK tank and logistics folks. Lot of links available on the net on this topics.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby nam » 24 Sep 2018 00:58

How does one use DU in a ATGM? ATGM are chemical weapons. They don't have sabots.DU is used as pentrator/armor.

You would have a build a rocket powered DU penetrator. Then it does not become "Guided Missile". It will be LOS, like a standard sabot round.

The latest tungsten sabot are now giving closer to DU performance.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Vips » 24 Sep 2018 08:59

India Successfully Conducts First Night Trial Of Indigenous Interceptor Missile.

As the nation slept on Sunday night, India successfully conducted its first night trial of its indigenously developed Ballistic Missile Defence (BMD) from a defence facility off the Odisha coast. The test is considered to be a major milestone in developing a two-layer Ballistic Missile Defence system.

With the successful testing of the anti-ballistic missile system, India has become the 4th nation in the world to have a robust BMD system after US, Russia and Israel.

According to defence sources, the hot standby interceptor missile Prithvi Defence Vehicle (PDV) which is capable of destroying enemy weapon systems at high altitudes of above 100 km, was flight tested against a target missile fired from a warship anchored in the Bay of Bengal.

"Both the PDV interceptor and the target missile were successfully engaged," Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) sources said.

The made-in-India anti-ballistic missile Prithvi Defence Vehicle was blasted off from the launching complex of Abdul Kalam Island a few minutes after the target, a modified Prithvi ballistic missile, was launched from the warship.

The radar-based system detected and tracked the ballistic missile and the computer network, with help from the data received by the radars, predicted the trajectory of the incoming ballistic missile and provided requisite command to fire the PDV interceptor missile.

The target was set up in the Bay of Bengal to simulate a hostile ballistic missile approaching from more than 2,000 km away. The test of the next generation state-of-the-art interceptor missile Prithvi Defence Vehicle developed by DRDO was aimed at engaging target in the exo-atmosphere region.

The DRDO has been focusing on high altitude interceptor missiles because if an incoming missile is intercepted at an high altitude, the debris would not fall on the ground and there would be no collateral damage.

The Prithvi Defence Vehicle (PDV) has been tested twice before, with the first test on April 27, 2014 and the second test on February 11, 2017, however, Sunday's test was the first one conducted at night.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ks_sachin » 24 Sep 2018 09:26

nam wrote:How does one use DU in a ATGM? ATGM are chemical weapons. They don't have sabots.DU is used as pentrator/armor.

You would have a build a rocket powered DU penetrator. Then it does not become "Guided Missile". It will be LOS, like a standard sabot round.

The latest tungsten sabot are now giving closer to DU performance.


ATGM are chemical weapons? Nam care to expound on that?

Cheers

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby prasannasimha » 24 Sep 2018 10:03

He must be meaning explosive and not kinetic weapons

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 24 Sep 2018 10:07

Sachin he means shaped charge in ATGM. Not kinetic round.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby SaiK » 24 Sep 2018 11:11

The DRDO has been focusing on high altitude interceptor missiles because if an incoming missile is intercepted at an high altitude, the debris would not fall on the ground and there would be no collateral damage.


within our threat theater profile, we could really consider a collateral damage falling on the enemy zone.

[early detection, the better --> Go near(ly) MAD or really-short NFU :) ]

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby dinesha » 24 Sep 2018 11:50


Maiden night trial of Ballistic Missile Defence a success
http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/ ... 76351.html
After the target missile was fired in an automated operation, the radar-based system detected and tracked the ballistic missile. The computer network with the help of data received from radars predicted the trajectory of the incoming ballistic missile and provided requisite command to fire the interceptor missile. Both the PDV interceptor and the two-stage target missile equipped with motors have been specially developed for the BMD mission. The target has been developed for mimicking a hostile ballistic missile approaching from more than 2000 km away.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby nits » 24 Sep 2018 13:42

From tech perspective; does it matter night or day time for missile defence ?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ks_sachin » 24 Sep 2018 13:55

nits wrote:From tech perspective; does it matter night or day time for missile defence ?

It was to test for night blindness!!!

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ArjunPandit » 24 Sep 2018 14:49

^^why night blindness? the missile launch will be enough to lighten us up like the birbal could cook a khichdi with akber badshah's light

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby nam » 24 Sep 2018 15:32

It was probably a test of the infrared sensor. May be it was a new design, it is easier to test in the colder night skies. It negates any effects of sun for the initial tests.

once it matures, there will be day trials.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ks_sachin » 24 Sep 2018 15:54

ArjunPandit wrote:^^why night blindness? the missile launch will be enough to lighten us up like the birbal could cook a khichdi with akber badshah's light

Arjun think like your namesake. Launch is after the fact and only after the doctor diagnoses that there is no night blindness i.e we were able to detect!!!

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ArjunPandit » 25 Sep 2018 10:53

nits wrote:From tech perspective; does it matter night or day time for missile defence ?

read it in one of the article, that backdrop of sun may pose difficulties in identification

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby nits » 25 Sep 2018 15:00

hmm; enemy may fire during Night, Day, cloudy, Rainy at time of his choosing; so we may need testing in all this conditions

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ArjunPandit » 25 Sep 2018 18:34

nits wrote:hmm; enemy may fire during Night, Day, cloudy, Rainy at time of his choosing; so we may need testing in all this conditions

Just curious if Pakistan has done any night test of their Uber cool missiles

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby sudhan » 25 Sep 2018 20:29

ArjunPandit wrote:Just curious if Pakistan has done any night test of their Uber cool missiles

How can you then showcase pak workmanship?? The gorgeous green camo body paint and pointy nose with rich red gloss..

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby disha » 26 Sep 2018 00:00

ArjunPandit wrote:Just curious if Pakistan has done any night test of their Uber cool missiles


They will do it any time soon. They are still searching the wick to light the rocket tail in the night time.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby A Sharma » 26 Sep 2018 19:04

Successful Flight Test of Astra BVR Air-to-Air Missile

Astra, the indigenously developed Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile (BVRAAM), was successfully test fired by the Indian Air Force from Su-30 aircraft, today from Air Force Station, Kalaikunda. The missile successfully engaged a manoeuvring target with high precision meeting the mission objectives. In the series of trials held to date, Astra has been launched in the complete Su-30 flight envelope. The flight test assumes significance as it was part of the series of final pre-induction trials. Astra is the best in class weapon system and has undergone more than twenty developmental trials.

Raksha Mantri Smt Nirmala Sitharaman lauded the efforts of Indian Air Force, DRDO and associated team members involved in the mission and said India has attained a high level of capability in the indigenous design and development of advanced weapon systems.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 26 Sep 2018 19:19

OK. This is part of the Astra missiles being assembled from production batch.

The flight test assumes significance as it was part of the series of final pre-induction trials. Astra is the best in class weapon system and has undergone more than twenty developmental trials.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Kakarat » 26 Sep 2018 20:01

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1044935451197493249

BREAKING: India tests Astra beyond visual range air-to-air missile from Su-30 MKI against a manoeuvering target. This was part of a series of final pre-induction trials.


Image
Image
Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby nash » 26 Sep 2018 21:03

we have 120KM warning on 25 September, as per this:

https://twitter.com/kurup89/status/1043391581489836033

and 450 km warning from today till friday:

https://twitter.com/kurup89/status/1043392434145619968

this Astra test fits into which warning.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby sudhan » 26 Sep 2018 21:17

The Astra should be the one corresponding to the 120 km NOTAM.

The other one should be Brahmos or some interceptor test..

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Kakarat » 26 Sep 2018 21:21

NOTAM is issued for area of action so the 120km or 450km doesnt matter

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ArjunPandit » 26 Sep 2018 21:36

1. What would be the maneovring target? Banshee?
2. 23 tests don't remember that many tests being done

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby VKumar » 26 Sep 2018 22:04

Should test whether Astra can intercept a Brahmos

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Trikaal » 26 Sep 2018 22:06

^I doubt they would ever publicize that even if it can. It would be like shooting urself in the foot.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby disha » 27 Sep 2018 01:45

VKumar wrote:Should test whether Astra can intercept a Brahmos


Intercepting a supersonic cruise missile is very very very difficult. Only a small window of opportunity exists where the BVR (or WVR) missile boxes the incoming missile in head-on and can calculate its trajectory and narrow down the boxes into the right kill box. Any deviation even by a second will result in a miss by half a kilometer (or 0.5 seconds deviation will be 250 mtrs away!).

nash wrote:we have 120KM warning on 25 September, as per this:

https://twitter.com/kurup89/status/1043391581489836033

and 450 km warning from today till friday:

https://twitter.com/kurup89/status/1043392434145619968

this Astra test fits into which warning.


Second could be for air launched Brahmos.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 27 Sep 2018 02:36

Yes it was a Banshee target. Asked Rout to find out which configuration of Banshee.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Ravi Karumanchiri » 27 Sep 2018 04:44

disha wrote:
VKumar wrote:Should test whether Astra can intercept a Brahmos


Intercepting a supersonic cruise missile is very very very difficult. Only a small window of opportunity exists where the BVR (or WVR) missile boxes the incoming missile in head-on and can calculate its trajectory and narrow down the boxes into the right kill box. Any deviation even by a second will result in a miss by half a kilometer (or 0.5 seconds deviation will be 250 mtrs away!).

<snip>



This gives me an idea. Rather than having a missile-versus-missile seeking a kinetic intercept of the target missile head-on; how about an anti-missile missile that engages the target missile in a tail-chase mode; except that instead of intercepting kinetically/explosively, the chasing missile fires a gun at the target missile flying in front of it. The kind of gun I'm thinking of, would be akin to the "Metal Storm" system, depicted below. Given the weight of the warhead of current such missiles, there is likely the possibility to load-out with upwards of 200 rounds...




Imagine such a missile fired into an opposing force of fighter aircraft! One missile could attack multiple aerial targets, including planes, missiles, perhaps even glide munitions. I don't really see any obstacles to feasibility; though neither have I seen such a system fielded. Rakshaks, correct me if I'm wrong.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Prem Kumar » 27 Sep 2018 09:30

Interesting concept. I think the ack-ack guns do the shrapnel thing, but they aren't guided. So perhaps a missile that tracks a target and at X distance, fires the shrapnel might make for an interesting combo of (smart + dumb). Don't know about the feasibility of incorporating the power pack inside a missile though. An AAM is a compact thing. SAMs are larger.

We can also reverse the scenario. We can think of a metal-storm system as a CIWS for aircraft. Today, aircrafts (unlike tanks) don't have an Active Protection System. They depend on violent maneuvers, decoys, chaffs & flares. Perhaps a system like this can be installed in an aircraft. If a missile that's tracked by an aircraft (easier for radar guided missiles), gets close enough, a storm of shrapnel can be aimed at the missile.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 27 Sep 2018 09:52

The Astra that was test fired was it from that new facility inaugurated by Jaitley?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Rakesh » 27 Sep 2018 10:11

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1044964248818876416 ---> Bharat Dynamics Limited's Astra Manufacturing Facility in its Bhanur unit near Sangrareddy is the one that'll produce the Astra en masse. Presently, a limited series production run of some 50 units is being executed by BDL.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ks_sachin » 27 Sep 2018 10:13

How long does it take from raw materials to the finished missile i wonder?


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