Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

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ramana
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 27 Sep 2018 10:20

Sadly sjha blocks me!

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Yagnasri » 27 Sep 2018 10:23

What did you do? :lol:

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby disha » 27 Sep 2018 10:31

Prem Kumar wrote:Interesting concept. I think the ack-ack guns do the shrapnel thing, but they aren't guided. So perhaps a missile that tracks a target and at X distance, fires the shrapnel might make for an interesting combo of (smart + dumb). Don't know about the feasibility of incorporating the power pack inside a missile though. An AAM is a compact thing. SAMs are larger.


It is like putting a guided rocket booster on to a M-61 Vulcan gun to make it fly supersonic.

Problem is what happens after 200 rounds? Will not the gun fall onto somebody's head? For supersonic cruise missiles like Brahmos, there is almost no counter option! One only hope will be to create a wall of lead on its path a few seconds before impact.

Or invent lasers that can shoot them down.


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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 27 Sep 2018 13:25

This the key piece of information I was looking for, if confirmed this is double of initial estimates.

All five squadrons, with two firing units each, will come in , will come in 54-60 months


Read more at:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... aign=cppst

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Kersi » 27 Sep 2018 14:35

What would be the area covered / sanitised by each squadron ? What are the likely locations ? I would say they could be around Delhi, Mumbai, Visakhapatnam, Tawang / Tezpur and Jodhpur.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Rakesh » 27 Sep 2018 17:35

Kersi, you have been warned many times to not do this. Each time you asked for this, you were told not to do this. But now this is getting out of hand. You have been banned for 7 days. Please think about what you are doing for the next one week.

Asking questions like the above, endangers all who visit this forum. And forum members in India stand the greatest risk. More importantly, these are not questions the average citizen or NRIs need to know. At the end of the day, we are all jingos who love our country and I feel you do to. But your actions are now proving otherwise.

I am hoping you learn your lesson. But if you do not, we will have to permanently ban you.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Avinandan » 27 Sep 2018 19:12

Rakesh wrote:Kersi, you have been warned many times to not do this. Each time you asked for this, you were told not to do this. But now this is getting out of hand. You have been banned for 7 days. Please think about what you are doing for the next one week.

Asking questions like the above, endangers all who visit this forum. And forum members in India stand the greatest risk. More importantly, these are not questions the average citizen or NRIs need to know. At the end of the day, we are all jingos who love our country and I feel you do to. But your actions are now proving otherwise.

I am hoping you learn your lesson. But if you do not, we will have to permanently ban you.


Rakesh,
Wanted to PM you on this, but looks like I am not authorized. Please delete my post if this poses risk.
There are many such blogs/articles(like the below one) where people have put their views regarding this question.
It is just a good read.
http://bengalraider.blogspot.com/2016/10/raising-shield-implications-of-s400-in.html

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 27 Sep 2018 19:30

Yagnasri wrote:What did you do? :lol:



I don't know. This happens often. Much bigger folks have blocked me.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Kanson » 27 Sep 2018 21:33

Ravi Karumanchiri wrote:
This gives me an idea. Rather than having a missile-versus-missile seeking a kinetic intercept of the target missile head-on; how about an anti-missile missile that engages the target missile in a tail-chase mode; except that instead of intercepting kinetically/explosively, the chasing missile fires a gun at the target missile flying in front of it. The kind of gun I'm thinking of, would be akin to the "Metal Storm" system, depicted below. Given the weight of the warhead of current such missiles, there is likely the possibility to load-out with upwards of 200 rounds...

[youtube]7phIBd4L0xw[/youtube


>>that instead of intercepting kinetically/explosively, the chasing missile fires a gun at the target missile flying in front of it.

In other words, it is known as Directional warhead.

>>The kind of gun I'm thinking of, would be akin to the "Metal Storm" system, depicted below.

DRDO developed multi-EFP based Directional warhead for their interceptor missiles, similar to the above concept.
Such concept is already put to use in other areas too, FYI.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Kanson » 27 Sep 2018 21:45

nits wrote:From tech perspective; does it matter night or day time for missile defence ?


Let me ask a question. You burst crackers& diwali rockets during night or daytime? What is the difference? If i can borrow 'Sidhu-ism', night test is like wearing bikini, in the name of concealing, you end up revealing more. :rotfl:

Prithvi missiles were also tested during night time.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Kanson » 27 Sep 2018 21:56

pankajs wrote:[I am always befuddled when Indian in all sincerity want all their missiles to be nuke tipped without understanding the context. So, in the past we've had seen the talk of nuke tipped Akash and Brahmos.

At least folks need to leave some for the pure conventional role. Folks think anointing a missile for dual role grant's India flexibility but it really does not. There is no fun in having all missiles nuke tipped even if it were possible. Agni series and its SLBM cousins are all that needs to be nuke tipped. If one needs a shorter version, create one and call it Agni-0 but one doesn't want a nuke tipped missile placed right along the border to be effective.


I see in this line of discussion many tall figures of this forum too have subscribed to this view.

So in this i'm deeply befuddled if not squarely to see officials who are/ were holding responsible position make statements that all Agni missiles can carry conventional warhead, even the latest Agni missile. And stumbled to see SFC that is supposed wage N war w Agni missiles echoes the same.

So, what you guys are missing?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Kanson » 27 Sep 2018 21:59

ramana wrote:
Yagnasri wrote:What did you do? :lol:

I don't know. This happens often. Much bigger folks have blocked me.

:D you must be a cult figure then. :wink:

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby pankajs » 27 Sep 2018 22:05

Kanson wrote:
pankajs wrote:[I am always befuddled when Indian in all sincerity want all their missiles to be nuke tipped without understanding the context. So, in the past we've had seen the talk of nuke tipped Akash and Brahmos.

At least folks need to leave some for the pure conventional role. Folks think anointing a missile for dual role grant's India flexibility but it really does not. There is no fun in having all missiles nuke tipped even if it were possible. Agni series and its SLBM cousins are all that needs to be nuke tipped. If one needs a shorter version, create one and call it Agni-0 but one doesn't want a nuke tipped missile placed right along the border to be effective.


I see in this line of discussion many tall figures of this forum too have subscribed to this view.

So in this i'm deeply befuddled if not squarely to see officials who are/ were holding responsible position make statements that all Agni missiles can carry conventional warhead, even the latest Agni missile. And stumbled to see SFC that is supposed wage N war w Agni missiles echoes the same.

So, what you guys are missing?

I would be very interested to read more on SFC's view on the matter. They are after all the folks controlling the arsenal. Would welcome any link.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 27 Sep 2018 22:28

Kanson, Not really. They see the .brf in my handle and block.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 27 Sep 2018 22:29

kanson, The Astra has a directional warhead and these very pages have cross section pictures of that.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Indranil » 28 Sep 2018 00:45

ramana wrote:Kanson, Not really. They see the .brf in my handle and block.

I don't know about the others, but SJha is not against BRF. He is a member here and in contact with many here.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Prem » 28 Sep 2018 01:03

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -next-week?
Russia Is Said to Plan Air-Defense Deal With India Next Week

he threat of U.S. sanctions against buyers of Russian weapons -- imposed most recently on China -- won’t affect the deal, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss plans that aren’t yet public. The contract covers 10 batteries, worth a total of $6.2 billion, Russia’s RBC newspaper reported earlier this year.A separate deal to supply four frigates to India, may also be signed during Putin’s visit on Oct. 4-5, the official said.“India is not risking anything with this deal,” says Igor Korotchenko, head of the Moscow-based Centre for Analysis of World Arms Trade. “The U.S. won’t impose sanctions on them because they don’t want the Indians to refuse to purchase American weapons in the future.”
The S-400 missile system has been in service since 2007 and is a popular Russian export weapon. It can shoot down aircraft and missiles at a range of 400 kilometers (about 250 miles).

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby SaiK » 28 Sep 2018 04:30

Whatever is the status of our hypersonic?

https://amp.businessinsider.com/russia- ... les-2018-9

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ritesh » 28 Sep 2018 05:35

Kanson wrote:
ramana wrote:I don't know. This happens often. Much bigger folks have blocked me.

:D you must be a cult figure then. :wink:

That guy is short fuse. Had a small argument on Maha CM trying to attract Grippen assembly line 2-3 yrs back and not able to handle rational tu tu mein mein, just blocked me as well. Lol so much for being ddm.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby SaiK » 28 Sep 2018 10:01

https://swarajyamag.com/insta/iaf-maste ... of-nations
“The test was perfect in all respects. Five more tests will follow to validate that the missile is ready to be inducted into the armed forces,” the official informed.

Astra, a 3.8-metre-long single-stage, smokeless, solid fuel propelled missile can intercept fast moving aerial targets at a supersonic speed of Mach 1.2 to 1.4 and can strike up to a range of 20 km in a tail-chase and up to 80 km in head-on mode.It is one of the smallest missiles developed by DRDO, both in size and weight.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Ravi Karumanchiri » 30 Sep 2018 00:40

Kanson wrote:
Ravi Karumanchiri wrote:
This gives me an idea. Rather than having a missile-versus-missile seeking a kinetic intercept of the target missile head-on; how about an anti-missile missile that engages the target missile in a tail-chase mode; except that instead of intercepting kinetically/explosively, the chasing missile fires a gun at the target missile flying in front of it. The kind of gun I'm thinking of, would be akin to the "Metal Storm" system, depicted below. Given the weight of the warhead of current such missiles, there is likely the possibility to load-out with upwards of 200 rounds...

[youtube]7phIBd4L0xw[/youtube


>>that instead of intercepting kinetically/explosively, the chasing missile fires a gun at the target missile flying in front of it.

In other words, it is known as Directional warhead.

>>The kind of gun I'm thinking of, would be akin to the "Metal Storm" system, depicted below.

DRDO developed multi-EFP based Directional warhead for their interceptor missiles, similar to the above concept.
Such concept is already put to use in other areas too, FYI.



No, I’m sorry, you’ve misunderstood me, then.

I am familiar with directional warheads, and understand these are designed for missile interceptions at oblique angles; where the entire “directional warhead” explodes at the same time, sending a cloud of projectiles towards the target (one shot, one kill). This is not what I had in mind.

Rather, I can envision, let’s say a “Brahmos Platform” or a “Nirbhay Platform” lacking it’s traditional warhead (having a seeker up-front), but armed with one or more of the “ammo tube” cum gun-barrels, all with solid-state electronic firing controls, as are envisioned by the “Metal Storm” weapon system shown “up” a few posts in this thread. Instead of trying to “intercept” the target BM (for Brahmos), or CM (for Nirbhay) at an oblique angle; the attack vector is from the rear, which would provide more than a passing shot. The “Metal Storm Brahmos or Nirbhay” would fire – I dunno, three-round bursts, let’s just say, perhaps from three different barrels, firing simultaneously (so the platform is not deflected, if the barrels are mounted off-centre). Target still flying? Three more rounds. Target still flying? Three more rounds. Target DESTROYED!

Next bogie? Any bogie? (Then ATTACK.) No bogy? No instructions? Fuel low? (No? Then LOITER) Low fuel “YES”, THEN Fly high and self-destruct (so no friendlies on the ground get hit in the head with a “Vulcan canon” or sum such).

CRITICALLY: These weapons, rather than attacking incoming BMs and CMs from oblique angles during a momentary passing, are designed to rather attack incoming weapons from their rearward aspect during inbound flight, providing multiple “shots” over a longer vector (not a passing intercept, as with a directional warhead). This permits more than one shot/attack on the same or other inbound target BMs and CMs. These weapons “chase down” incoming bogies, from behind. Just imagine an SU30-Mki firing such a “Brahmos platform” “Metal Storm” variant toward an opposing flight of enemy planes. The weapon would attack frontally, take a burst of shots (or more), then spin 180 degrees and chase the others from behind.

It should fire tungsten projectiles, so maybe 200 rounds is a lot; OR better yet, combine another advanced technology, as in the ‘AHEAD’ AA ammo that goes into those Oerlikon guns (and maybe the Rafale?), and produce a truly unparalleled weapon – a hyper-sonic, hyper-capable missile system designed to destroy other missile systems.


NB: Somewhere way back in this thread, I had mused on the possibility of a Brahmos variant with an exotic warhead, designed to “strafe” a long stretch of highway with flechettes. Such a variant could be used to prevent looted nukes from escaping into the wild. It would be a terrible weapon, with lots of unfortunate collateral damage. But, if it ever happened that TTP or whoever over-ran a paknuke site, and were attempting to exfiltrate nuclear weapons, it would be far better to use such an exotic, non-nuclear warhead, where the present alternative is…….. escalatory (I’ll leave it at that).

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby AdityaM » 30 Sep 2018 05:08

So this is what multiple MIRV warheads looks like in real

https://mobile.twitter.com/sandeepunnit ... 2810419200

Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 30 Sep 2018 05:14

Thats Soviet design.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby AdityaM » 30 Sep 2018 05:22

Yes. But till now I had only seen graphic depictions of what multiple warheads configuration looked like.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Y I Patel » 30 Sep 2018 05:23

The finesse India seems to have employed in the S-400 purchase is to integrate the missiles with the Indian/Israeli radars of the layered Indian Air Defense Network. This addresses the American concern of Russians being able to access Indian installations as part of maintenance support and use those opportunities to spy on American equipment. The other point of access would be training, which presumably can be taken care of by sending Indian personnel to train in Russia.

Another big argument in favor of such a deal is that few if any other countries would have the ability to pull of this level of integration of Russian missiles with non-Russian radar and communication equipment, thus limiting the ability of this being a precedent that Russians can employ with other countries interested in the system.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Anant » 30 Sep 2018 07:12

Here's the American version.

https://goo.gl/images/K9yeva

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Kakkaji » 02 Oct 2018 00:31

Does this mean that the SPIKE has been spiked?

MPATGM: Man Portable Anti-Tank Guided Missile production facility opened at Bharat Dynamics Ltd

After successfully flight testing for the second time the indigenously developed Man Portable Anti-Tank Guided Missile (MPATGM), production facility for manufacturing these missiles has been inaugurated at Bharat Dynamics Ltd (BDL) unit at Bhanur last weekend.

The MPATGM is a third-generation anti-tank guided missile (ATGM), which has been under development by DRDO in partnership with Indian defense contractor VEM Technologies Ltd. since 2015. The missile is fitted with a high-explosive anti-tank (HEAT) warhead and has a maximum engagement range of about 2.5 Kms. Eight static tests of rocket motor have been conducted to achieve consistent ballistic performance last year.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Indranil » 02 Oct 2018 01:38

I am guessing. But this unit is not just for DRDO MPATGM, but the entire gamut of man portable ATGMs that BDL manufactures.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby JayS » 02 Oct 2018 13:01

Thread cleaned up. Plz no more discussion of sjha and twitter.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Pratyush » 02 Oct 2018 13:48

Indranil wrote:I am guessing. But this unit is not just for DRDO MPATGM, but the entire gamut of man portable ATGMs that BDL manufactures.


If your guess is accurate. Then this solves one of the most significant problems faced by DRDO.

DRDO strength is working with sme players to come up with rapid design and prototype. It is the scaling up that is a huge problem.

With this, the design and prototyping is done by SME partner who may not have th ability to scale up into a production house and the production will be taken care off by DPSU.

A win-win if ever there is one.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Austin » 02 Oct 2018 17:10

ramana wrote:Thats Soviet design.


Ramana , you are right , its a old Soviet R-29RMU1 SLBM with the conical RV , The picture was just recently declassified as all this class of Missile is now out of service. Post R29RMU1 , 2 more variants were developed R-29RMU2 Sineva 2006 and more recently R-29RMU2.1 Liner 2014

The upgrade R29RMU2/Liner SLBM carries a more modern RV and was presented by its designer in 2015 , The picture is below , Dubbed as high speed hypersonic manouvering warhead

Image

The Design Document from the Chief Designer states the following qualities of the RV

In the design documentation the product is called "High-speed maneuvering combat unit". Composition: instrument, aggregate and combat compartments; aerodynamic shields. The development is intended for equipping strategic missile complexes of land and sea basing and defeating strategic enemy facilities in the face of counteraction to the echeloned missile defense system.

Advantages of the high-speed maneuvering block are: effective overcoming of the low-altitude flight level of the missile defense system by implementing an unpredictable spatial maneuver with high transverse overloads; The defeat of all types of ground targets, including highly protected, in the face of enemy opposition.


The development of the maneuvering unit is based on the solution of a number of scientific and technical problems associated with the choice of the aerodynamic shape of the unit, with the creation of controls, materials, a control system, special software and methodological support, the formation of a flight task, and analysis of flight tests.


https://i-korotchenko.livejournal.com/1 ... tml?page=2

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Austin » 02 Oct 2018 17:14

The interesting part of the RV desin is the mention of Unpredictable Spatial Maneuver with high traverse overload aka Lateral G Forces.

To me the design appears of advanced variant of Hypersonic BGRV , The slightly tilted nose generates a higher lift while the RV enters at hypersonic speed and boost glides giving it a longer Cross Range and the Gas Dynamic Manouvering control system ( for Unpredictable Spatial Manoeuver at low altitudes ) as seen from the tail end of design is for post re-entry manouvering while it boost glides to the target

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby kurup » 02 Oct 2018 18:26


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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby SaiK » 03 Oct 2018 05:09

error hint: if you use google earth/map, significant zoom (say δz = is the zoom altitude diff between two zoom points that retains same scale), it maintains same scale reference. calculate your errors.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby prasannasimha » 04 Oct 2018 00:06

Final development test of Agni 5 this month according to some reports

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby SaiK » 04 Oct 2018 08:56

ASTRA Missile getting ready to be inducted in service next year: another successful test
A series of flight trials of Astra Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile (BVR-AAM) was conducted by Indian Air Force during Sept 26 to Oct 3, at Integrated Test Range (ITR), Balasore as part of final development trials of the missile.

https://www.financialexpress.com/defenc ... t/1336126/

Image
ASTRA Missile getting ready to be inducted in service next year (File)

A series of flight trials of Astra Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile (BVR-AAM) was conducted by Indian Air Force during Sept 26 to Oct 3, at Integrated Test Range (ITR), Balasore as part of final development trials of the missile.

The trials were a combination of complex tests for engagement of pilotless target in different modes of manoeuvring, off-boresight, medium and long ranges. The missiles were telemetered for evaluation of online performance of all sub-systems especially the datalink, RF seeker and proximity fuse for end-game performance.

Astra has been tested six times under different launch conditions and ranges as part of the final development trial. The missile has engaged targets and all the mission objectives have been met.


With Indian Air Force’s ( IAF) active participation, Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has developed the missile and integrated the weapon on Su-30 and other air platforms.

Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), Nasik has been instrumental in the modification of a number of Su-30 aircrafts for Astra weapon integration and support during trials.

Just last month the indigenously built missile was successfully test-fired by the IAF from Su-30 aircraft, at Air Force Station, Kalaikunda. It was successfully engaged a manoeuvring target with high precision meeting the mission objectives.

All the sub-systems including the indigenous RF Seeker performed accurately, meeting all the mission parameters and objectives. Two missiles were also launched in the combat configuration with warhead and the targets were neutralized.

More than 50 private and public sector industries are involved in the development and production of different sub-systems of the missile. The missile is expected to be inducted into IAF in 2019.


Looking forward to integrating Astra with Tejas Mk1a/2.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Trikaal » 04 Oct 2018 11:50

http://idrw.org/indian-air-force-wants- ... om-russia/

Is this a good idea? What does Airforce need S-400s for? They just have to protect Airbases which can be done with lesser range air defence systems. I am not against procuring more S-400s but shouldn't we consolidate all such systems under a joint strategic command rather than stand alone grouos with different forces?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby tsarkar » 04 Oct 2018 12:00

https://www.financialexpress.com/defenc ... t/1336126/

The trials were a combination of complex tests for engagement of pilotless target in different modes of manoeuvring, off-boresight, medium and long ranges. The missiles were telemetered for evaluation of online performance of all sub-systems especially the datalink, RF seeker and proximity fuse for end-game performance...All the sub-systems including the indigenous RF Seeker performed accurately, meeting all the mission parameters and objectives. Two missiles were also launched in the combat configuration with warhead and the targets were neutralized.


The off boresight mode is what I had referred to in the Armoured thread, where the missile is launched at a different angle and guided by datalink either from launch aircraft or another aircraft.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... es.svg.png

https://www.livefistdefence.com/2009/07 ... t-tes.html

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-7 ... 2f3361fd43

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby pankajs » 04 Oct 2018 12:43

Trikaal wrote:http://idrw.org/indian-air-force-wants-to-buy-second-lot-of-s-400-missile-systems-from-russia/

Is this a good idea? What does Airforce need S-400s for? They just have to protect Airbases which can be done with lesser range air defence systems. I am not against procuring more S-400s but shouldn't we consolidate all such systems under a joint strategic command rather than stand alone grouos with different forces?

This is not about defending the Airbase but about defending the Airspace for which it is also responsible.

With an umbrella like S400 the Airforce doesn't have to be every where especially with a fighter deficit.


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