Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

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SaiK
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby SaiK » 27 Nov 2018 22:09

MPATGM : conflicting range data - is it 4km or 2km max?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby brar_w » 27 Nov 2018 22:43

Singha wrote:well intelligent swarm or not, a few well placed 76mm airburst rounds or SAM warheads will blow them out of the sky. all the better if they shoal together like fishes. so attacking well defended targets may not be so hot, perhaps confusing radar may be, but MALD and manned SEAD platforms have the power and sensors 1000x better than 6 inch drones!

if the target is weak might as well drop a bomb or missile on it, than try elaborate swarm tactics


Drone swarm by its very nature needs to be intelligent and synchronous and with the ability to coordinate as I mentioned. Calling anything else a swarm is not a very accurate use of the term especially when a collection of flying aircraft or UAVs is labeled as a swarm. Regarding how swarming with micro-drones can help in mission success there is stuff out there that you can read. Moreover, swarming tactics aren't limited to small drones either. Lets avoid doing that here before the mods delete posts.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Indranil » 28 Nov 2018 02:35

SaiK wrote:MPATGM : conflicting range data - is it 4km or 2km max?

2.5

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 28 Nov 2018 06:14

SaiK wrote:MPATGM : conflicting range data - is it 4km or 2km max?



LINK


2.5 Km. and will be comparable to SPIKE and Javelin.
Since the MPATGM program was sanctioned in January 2015, the DRDO has consistently offered that the system is worth waiting for. The program’s scope includes design and development of a third generation ATGM with a launch tube (LT) and launcher and command launch unit (CLU), demonstration of the system performance through ground testing and flight testing.


So quite quick development. Already design trials are over. Two more this month.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Rakesh » 28 Nov 2018 06:20

Can we do VSHORAD system as well, just like the MPATGM development?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 28 Nov 2018 06:24

Probably build on this.
The IIR seeker is the key.

I don't know how fast this one flies.
That would be the hurdle.
But then HEMRL can design a different grain to give it higher acceleration.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 28 Nov 2018 06:24

This one can take out helicopters am sure.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby SaiK » 29 Nov 2018 20:31

Sweden’s Saab Weighs Legal Route To Protest Indian VSHORADS Defeat

https://www.livefistdefence.com/2018/11 ... efeat.html

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 29 Nov 2018 23:44

SaiK wrote:Sweden’s Saab Weighs Legal Route To Protest Indian VSHORADS Defeat

https://www.livefistdefence.com/2018/11 ... efeat.html


What is this nonsense?
The buyer chooses what he wants to buy.
The seller cant go to court. This is not a works program for arms merchants.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Rakesh » 30 Nov 2018 01:33

ramana wrote:What is this nonsense?
The buyer chooses what he wants to buy.
The seller cant go to court. This is not a works program for arms merchants.

Sweden’s Saab Weighs Legal Route To Protest Indian VSHORADS Defeat
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2018/11 ... efeat.html

....Sweden’s Saab indicated today that it would contemplate knocking on the doors of Indian courts to protest, an option available to it as part of the country’s defence procurement procedure.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 30 Nov 2018 02:13

That is why I said we need to reform MoD along side the Army. I even had a few posts and didn't get anything from our warriors.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Rakesh » 30 Nov 2018 02:20

ramana wrote:That is why I said we need to reform MoD along side the Army. I even had a few posts and didn't get anything from our warriors.

I need to know if such a provision actually exists in the MoD's procurement policy.

If true, why would you give a vendor an opportunity to do such a thing? What is going in the MoD? :roll:

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 30 Nov 2018 10:47

Rakesh wrote:
ramana wrote:What is this nonsense?
The buyer chooses what he wants to buy.
The seller cant go to court. This is not a works program for arms merchants.

Sweden’s Saab Weighs Legal Route To Protest Indian VSHORADS Defeat
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2018/11 ... efeat.html

....Sweden’s Saab indicated today that it would contemplate knocking on the doors of Indian courts to protest, an option available to it as part of the country’s defence procurement procedure.


I truly and fervently wish SAAB goes through with this. I have my reasons... :wink:

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby darshhan » 30 Nov 2018 17:12

Karan M wrote:
I truly and fervently wish SAAB goes through with this. I have my reasons... :wink:


But only if it leads to complete junking of the vshorads import plan altogether. There is absolutely no point in enabling others to rob yourself. Also with QRSAM program making progress, there will be less utility of VSHORADs as capabilities of both programs will overlap.

If DRDO can come up with its own version of manpad, then even better.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby John » 30 Nov 2018 18:52

darshhan wrote:
Karan M wrote:
I truly and fervently wish SAAB goes through with this. I have my reasons... :wink:


But only if it leads to complete junking of the vshorads import plan altogether. There is absolutely no point in enabling others to rob yourself. Also with QRSAM program making progress, there will be less utility of VSHORADs as capabilities of both programs will overlap.

If DRDO can come up with its own version of manpad, then even better.

QRSAM and VSHORAD do not overlap in any way, former is short range missile 10+ times heavier than MANPAD (you can actually argue QRSAM overlaps with Barak-8 which is short-medium range missile). While i support indigenous effort, developing another manpad is another decade worth of a effort at the very least there is immediate need now. To be honest we should have purchased Mistral, we already inducting them for LCH IIRC and IMO we should launch co development program with MBDA to develop point defense system using modified Mistral (mounted on vehicles and ships).

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby souravB » 30 Nov 2018 19:38

SANT missile tested
The missile is guided by an Infra-red Imaging Seeker (IIR) operating in the Lock on Before Launch mode.

Sources said the missile was tested for its Infra-red Imaging Seeker with a far greater resolution than what has been tested earlier, as per the demand of the users. A higher version seeker, with a much higher focal plane array as compared to the original plan, has been tested.

according to twitter reports the mizzile has a range of 15-20km and test fired from a Mi-35.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Aditya_V » 30 Nov 2018 20:05

The article mentions active radar seeker and IIR seeker. Is this DDMites or is this going to be a dual seeker missile. US has a similar project

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Singha » 30 Nov 2018 20:21

probably two variants like hellfire has.

strangely javelin is IIR while hellfire has no IIR version.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 30 Nov 2018 22:23

The journalist who wrote that should be given a padma award like his peers for being able to submit copy while smoking something so strong.
Because that article is a confused mess.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Kartik » 01 Dec 2018 01:52

From AW&ST

Image

SANT on a Mi-35

BENGALURU—India’s national defense agency has successfully tested a new Stand-off Anti-Tank (SANT) missile meant to bolster the military’s multi-platform launch capability.

The missile was tested Nov. 29 at the Pokhran field firing range in the Jaisalmer district in the western state of Rajasthan. It was developed by Research Center Imarat (RCI), the premier laboratory of India’s Defense and Research Development Organization (DRDO), in association with the Indian Air Force (IAF).

“All the mission objectives were met. A dummy target was destroyed and the missile was successfully flight tested for different ranges, including the maximum range capability in [the] Pokhran field firing range,” a senior Indian defense official said.

The missile is believed to be a further development of DRDO’s HeliNa, (Helicopter-launched Nag) missile, which has a range up to 8 km (5 mi.).

The SANT missile will have a range of 15-20 km (9-12 mi.). It is equipped with a new, nose-mounted active radar seeker to help keep the launch platform at a safe distance from the target area.

The missile has a multi-platform capability and can be launched from attack helicopters and high-altitude/long-endurance drones. It also can be integrated with strike aircraft to provide high-precision, guided, tactical air-to-ground capabilities to carry out anti-armor missions. This would enable it to take out main battle tanks and armored personnel vehicles.


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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 01 Dec 2018 05:54

Bye Bye MANPADS on M113. Pakistan Armoured regiments please say hello to spiritual SANT maharaj who will enlighten you. :lol:

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Rakesh » 01 Dec 2018 06:22

:lol: Good One!

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Pratyush » 01 Dec 2018 10:04

Karan M wrote:Bye Bye MANPADS on M113. Pakistan Armoured regiments please say hello to spiritual SANT maharaj who will enlighten you. :lol:


:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :twisted:

This should also be able to deal with any potential Chinese shorad gifts for tspa. A forward looking development if there was one.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Prem » 01 Dec 2018 10:22

What kind of test is this ?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Pratyush » 01 Dec 2018 11:00

Prem wrote:What kind of test is this ?



Seems to be a training exercise for strela.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Singha » 01 Dec 2018 14:00

so SANT is now the indian brimstone. the british tornados use them in large multi-round packs. we need to integrate that on our fighters too and test
Rustom2 may be able to take a few if and when it enters the ring.

Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby kit » 01 Dec 2018 16:05

Karan M wrote:
Rakesh wrote:Sweden’s Saab Weighs Legal Route To Protest Indian VSHORADS Defeat
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2018/11 ... efeat.html



I truly and fervently wish SAAB goes through with this. I have my reasons... :wink:


:mrgreen: :((

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Lisa » 01 Dec 2018 16:29

Rakesh wrote:Sweden’s Saab Weighs Legal Route To Protest Indian VSHORADS Defeat
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2018/11 ... efeat.html



Is the same Saab that sold Erieye and RBS 70's to pukistan!

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 01 Dec 2018 17:28

Lisa wrote:
Rakesh wrote:Sweden’s Saab Weighs Legal Route To Protest Indian VSHORADS Defeat
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2018/11 ... efeat.html



Is the same Saab that sold Erieye and RBS 70's to pukistan!


Tinkle Tinkle bell in temple
SAAB please file a case against MOD!

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Aditya_V » 01 Dec 2018 19:10

Singha wrote:so SANT is now the indian brimstone. the british tornados use them in large multi-round packs. we need to integrate that on our fighters too and test
Rustom2 may be able to take a few if and when it enters the ring.

Image

Or someday in the near future, exploiting gaps in Paki radar coverage, a sudden explosion in UJC meeting in POK, some Hafiz Sayed and sons, Masud Azhar etc die.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby nam » 01 Dec 2018 19:22

What is the point of knocking off puppets? There will be a new one within a week.

Hit the real puppet master and their toys.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby nam » 01 Dec 2018 19:30

I wonder if SANT can be made to have dual pulse motor to increase it's range further. Provided we have the sensor loop in place.

Hope we invest some money in to targeting radar for LCH, even if it means importing some. It would be nice to have some for the 150-200 that will be inducted.

Progress of Helina & Sant might explain the silence around importing ATGM for Rudra & LCH.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Pratyush » 01 Dec 2018 21:24

nam wrote:I wonder if SANT can be made to have dual pulse motor to increase it's range further. Provided we have the sensor loop in place.

Hope we invest some money in to targeting radar for LCH, even if it means importing some. It would be nice to have some for the 150-200 that will be inducted.

Progress of Helina & Sant might explain the silence around importing ATGM for Rudra & LCH.


Better yet, use the seeker to build Indian equivelant of maverick missile.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 01 Dec 2018 22:20

I am more interesting in knowing how they will detect and designate the target from 15-20km. What's the solution in place there.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby krishna_krishna » 01 Dec 2018 23:51

Karan M wrote:I am more interesting in knowing how they will detect and designate the target from 15-20km. What's the solution in place there.


"The missile is guided by an Infra-red Imaging Seeker (IIR) operating in the Lock on Before Launch mode. It is one of the most advanced anti-tank weapons in the world.

Sources said the missile was tested for its Infra-red Imaging Seeker with a far greater resolution than what has been tested earlier, as per the demand of the users. A higher version seeker, with a much higher focal plane array as compared to the original plan, has been tested."

From here :

http://defencenews.in/article/Upgraded- ... ted-581813

It also has nose mounted active radar seeker. I believe M-35 went upgrade under project 24 using mission computers from IAI (Isreael aircraft industries):

The Mission 24 upgrade package as sold to the Indian Air Force is built around a 1553B digital databus. The heart of the upgrade is a single mission computer developed with IAI MLM; it is a derivative of the model used in the US Air Force T-38 upgrade program, in which IAI is the principal subcontractor.

Mission 24 utilizes Tamam's proven helicopter multi-mission optronic stabilized payload HMOSP, which weighs around 30 kg (66 lbs). It is a turret ball mounted derivative of the combat proven IAI Tamam night targeting system installed in the US marine corps AH-1W super cobra and Israeli DF/AF Cobra attack helicopters FoV (between 2.4 deg and 29.2 deg on the FLIR).

The HMOSP can incorporate two types of FLIR: a scanning array 4 x 480 Cadmium-mercury-telluride detectors, operating in the low-wavelength band, and a 320x 240- element indium-antimony focal plane array functioning at the middle wavelengths. Monochrome or color CCD TV cameras are included, together with a laser rangefinder, designator and pointer, plus a built in auto-tracking unit that uses centroid and edge-tracking techniques.

The HMOSP has been integrated with the Shturm-V ATGM SLOC guidance system through an IR goniometer and interface unit designed by IAI Tamam engineers, which has fully replaced the original old and bulky Raduga-F sighting/ATGM optical tracking system. The unit weighs more than 200 kg (440 lb). The Raduga-F 's role for targeting and tracking both the target and missile was taken over by HMOSP, with guidance commands being produced and transmitted to the missiles through the existing equipment.
(Source = BRF webpage on Mi-35 upgrade program)
Last edited by krishna_krishna on 02 Dec 2018 00:06, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby nam » 01 Dec 2018 23:52

Karan M wrote:I am more interesting in knowing how they will detect and designate the target from 15-20km. What's the solution in place there.


Wouldn't you be able to use the regular optics on Mi-35 to zoom on to a object at 20KM, if you are flying high enough? It probably provides a sort of grid location and the same might be feed in to SANT.

Once it knows a nearby location to fly to, it might then be similar to how Brahmos scanner is able to find the target to hit. Probably matching from radar imaging bank.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby nam » 01 Dec 2018 23:59

Here is how brimstone does it:

https://www.army-technology.com/projects/brimstone/

Brimstone is equipped with a small, robust millimetric wave radar seeker operating at 94GHz, providing the capability to operate in all weather conditions, day and night. The seeker operates in low visibility and contaminated battlefield conditions, and is not susceptible to battlefield obscurants such as smoke, dust, flares and chaff.

The high-millimetric band seeker provides a high-resolution radar return image of the target, while the frequency gives a small beamwidth and therefore, very high angular resolution and reduces unwanted clutter for the given antenna size, which is limited by the diameter of the missile.

The millimetre wave radar enables wideband operation, facilitating the use of very sophisticated electronic countermeasures. Millimetric radar attenuates more rapidly than conventional centemetric radar in rain, sleet and fog, but its advantage is high penetration, in comparison to infrared sensor systems when countermeasures are employed.

Brimstone’s seeker incorporates a terrain avoidance capability, allowing it to cruise at a fixed height above ground.

A digital autopilot provides mid-course guidance and uses a high-accuracy digital inertial measurement system for high-precision navigation to locate targets at long range and in off-boresight operations.

The highly advanced guidance system on the launcher’s fire control unit and missile uses the target coordinates, course, speed, distance to target, missile trajectory data and data from other sensors to direct the controls and produce the optimum flight path to the target.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ashishvikas » 06 Dec 2018 22:59

'The Made in India weapon system called the Man Portable Anti Tank Guide Missile (MP-ATGM) is progressing very fast and is going to go for its second trial soon. The Army is now planning to go for the indigenous system over the Spike missile,' top government sources told MyNation.

https://www.mynation.com/amp/news/army- ... ssion=true

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby nash » 07 Dec 2018 20:47

Was it posted before in this thread, very informative:

https://salute.co.in/military-modernisa ... air-force/

The Future
We are in the development stage of the Pralay—a guided short-range (400 km) tactical ballistic missile for battlefield use developed by DRDO. Also developed for the IAF are the precision guided munitions (PGMs) Garuthmaa and Garudaa. An air launched anti tank missile has been developed called SANT (Stand off Anti Tank) which will have multi-platform launch capability and can be launched from attack helicopters. Other weapons developed are the SAAW (Smart Anti Airfield Weapon), Dhruv Astra an anti surface missile and a new generation anti radiation missile—the Rudram-1. We also have the Rudram-2 and Rudram-3 missiles which are variants of the Rudram-1 with different functions for ground attack.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Gyan » 07 Dec 2018 23:12

Can some one explain difference between SANT, Dhruvastra & Helina?

For Rudra 1,2,3 My guess is ARM, IR guided & MMW guided using similar weapon platforms


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