LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

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Indranil
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by Indranil »

Over the next few months you will see 800 ltr DTs on the midboard pylons. This will clear the inboard pylons to carry 2 1000 lb bombs in tandem (already cleared). The centerline has already been cleared for single unguided 1000lb bomb and 725 ltr DT on centerline pylon. The midboard has already been cleared for guided and unguided bombs of all shapes and size. Astra is slated for integration soon after FOC.

The only things that are remaining from my wishlist:
1. Parallel carriage pylons for SDBs for centerline, inboard and midboard pylons
2. Brimstone equivalents of SAAW
3. Parallel carriage of 2 AAMs on outboard pylon
4. Parallel carriage of 2 or more BVRAAMs on internal pylons.

I know that 3 is in the works. This is a serious warfighting weapon.
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by Prasad »

Brimstone equivalent of SAAW? What?
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by Indranil »

I think between SAAW and Helina we have all the parts of Brimstone.
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by Prasad »

Getting further OT But SAAW is a lightweight bomb no? Do we know what its guidance is?

Just expanding the Helina and maybe making it dual-guidance with IIR perhaps will be a brimstone equivalent.
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by Indranil »

I have seen SAAW proposals with transparent noses. The things that one can draw from SAAW is the ability to guide the munition from standoff distances of 60 - 100 kms to a range where terminal guidance can take over. The terminal guidance can come from Helina and CLGM/SAMHO (For Brimstones in opertaion they found laser guidance to be most effective). The onboard rocket motor can be fired to gain maximum kinetic energy just before impact. This could be the booster motor from Helina. The warhead obviously will be the same from Nag/Helina. Other things that can be borrowed from the SAAW project are its pylons. The four SAAW arrangement is likely to be less draggy than the 3 parallel Brimstones pylon.
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by la.khan »

Mukesh.Kumar wrote:
KBDagha wrote:Excellent Video about Tejas! Great to hear directly from Sq. 45 pilots about its superior capabilities.
https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video. ... 5747621%2F&
Hope springs eternal. Now only if we can get more inducted fast, we are going to see a change in mindsets. Once the IAF's homeboys fall in love, LCA will hopefully soar.
I am willing to stick my neck out and make a prediction: once 120+ Tejas aircraft are inducted, the IAF will ask for an additional 20-40 Tejas aircraft, as they are at that point. Warts, flaws and all. On what basis do I say this? After operating 120+ Tejas jets, the IAF will love the way Tejas handles, low maintenance, tweaks that can be applied to the software, falling squadron numbers etc all work towards IAF asking HAL/MoD/GoI for more of the same.

Please hold me to this regardless of the time it takes to induct 120 Tejas aircraft and whichever way that SE (F16/Gripen/whatever) circus goes.
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by deejay »

I don't see Tejas orders stopping anything below 200 (different versions of LCA included). This is just for IAF. The other thing that I am hoping for is HAL adopting Tejas and developing Tejas like they did for Dhruv. Over the next 10 years.

Export market and orders from friendly countries of LCA MkE (Export) is also a strong possibility. Again, HAL will have to step up and handle the export market with kid glove. A world class customer support for spares and maintenance, 24x7x365. That should get at least another 100 Tejas to the assembly line.
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by Marten »

deejay wrote:I don't see Tejas orders stopping anything below 200 (different versions of LCA included). This is just for IAF. The other thing that I am hoping for is HAL adopting Tejas and developing Tejas like they did for Dhruv. Over the next 10 years.

Export market and orders from friendly countries of LCA MkE (Export) is also a strong possibility. Again, HAL will have to step up and handle the export market with kid glove. A world class customer support for spares and maintenance, 24x7x365. That should get at least another 100 Tejas to the assembly line.
Sir, if this comes true, I shall buy you a pitcher of the finest beer brewed in Bangalore! *non-transferable and one time-use coupon. :D
(This is very much unlike Admiral's daawa of distributing sweets to all of us).
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by jamwal »

Not that I am very optimistic on this, but why only him ?
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by Kakarat »

India’s Tejas Set For Fresh Missile Fight - Livefist
Reports suggest the ADA and LCA test teams are not fully satisfied with the Python-5 integration. Sources indicated flutter issues slowing progress on the missile’s integration and testing. These, and other, issues are believed to have stalled the Python-5’s path at the carriage trials stage, with no test firing conducted yet. The LCA is, however, making progress on the Python-5’s sister weapon, the beyond visual range Derby.
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by Marten »

jamwal wrote:Not that I am very optimistic on this, but why only him ?
Insider view vs. Old Airport road view. :lol:
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by Khalsa »

la.khan wrote:
Mukesh.Kumar wrote:
Hope springs eternal. Now only if we can get more inducted fast, we are going to see a change in mindsets. Once the IAF's homeboys fall in love, LCA will hopefully soar.
I am willing to stick my neck out and make a prediction: once 120+ Tejas aircraft are inducted, the IAF will ask for an additional 20-40 Tejas aircraft, as they are at that point. Warts, flaws and all. On what basis do I say this? After operating 120+ Tejas jets, the IAF will love the way Tejas handles, low maintenance, tweaks that can be applied to the software, falling squadron numbers etc all work towards IAF asking HAL/MoD/GoI for more of the same.

Please hold me to this regardless of the time it takes to induct 120 Tejas aircraft and whichever way that SE (F16/Gripen/whatever) circus goes.
Awesome Video.
Kudos to this squadron and the men of IAF.
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by ramana »

Indranil wrote:I think between SAAW and Helina we have all the parts of Brimstone.
I agree. The USP of the Brimstone is the shaped charge warhead with follow through unitary warhead. The shaped charge breaks the barrier and the unitary warhead defeats the bunker.
So at a minimum if a SAAW version has a shaped charge and a unitary warhead it would replicate the functions of the Brimstone.
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by ramana »

Kakarat wrote:India’s Tejas Set For Fresh Missile Fight - Livefist
Reports suggest the ADA and LCA test teams are not fully satisfied with the Python-5 integration. Sources indicated flutter issues slowing progress on the missile’s integration and testing. These, and other, issues are believed to have stalled the Python-5’s path at the carriage trials stage, with no test firing conducted yet. The LCA is, however, making progress on the Python-5’s sister weapon, the beyond visual range Derby.

Recall in late March 2016, there were some Python 5 firing trials scheduled and called off due to wing vibration issues.
Even though the wing was redesigned for the Russian AAM/CCM R-73 and the Python 5 weighs less than that, looks like the geometry is different leading to aerodynamic loads.

This could have caused the flutter problems.

Indranil, Can the Python be carried only at the outermost pylons?

Can it be carried in other pylons?
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by Dileep »

Marten wrote:
deejay wrote:I don't see Tejas orders stopping anything below 200 (different versions of LCA included). This is just for IAF. The other thing that I am hoping for is HAL adopting Tejas and developing Tejas like they did for Dhruv. Over the next 10 years.

Export market and orders from friendly countries of LCA MkE (Export) is also a strong possibility. Again, HAL will have to step up and handle the export market with kid glove. A world class customer support for spares and maintenance, 24x7x365. That should get at least another 100 Tejas to the assembly line.
Sir, if this comes true, I shall buy you a pitcher of the finest beer brewed in Bangalore! *non-transferable and one time-use coupon. :D
(This is very much unlike Admiral's daawa of distributing sweets to all of us).
Why don't we all LCA fans have a BRF meet to celebrate then? I can easily take the hyperloop from Kochi in the afternoon, and return by night onlee. Or.. if I am too drunk, can take a driverless podcar to the grandkid's apartment at Mairappanahalli.
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by suryag »

I have lined up one blue label for our next meet in blr
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by Bala Vignesh »

Dileep wrote:Mairappanahalli.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
On a serious note, hope springs eternal, Dileep Chetta!! And what else do we have, if not hope??
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by jamwal »

Is Python missile fluttering or the wing ?

Aroor articles indicates that the problem is with missiles control surfaces. But this is what the competitor MBDA is saying.
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by Rakesh »

Marten wrote:(This is very much unlike Admiral's daawa of distributing sweets to all of us).
:rotfl: :lol:
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by Avtar Singh »

I will happily take an 18hr round trip flight to join said party... and buy all the drinks.

Great video; external fit and finish looks great. Instrumentation also looks fantastic....
Please move to a side stick, especially for future aircraft, more comfortable and frees up space in the cockpit.

Someone please explain why India is looking for a foreign single engine fighter?
Heavens sake cancel that nonsense and put pedal to the metal in producing this aeroplane.

Every IAF officer should have a corporal carrying ones torch!!
I suppose, since it was a Wg Cdr making the video, one can expect such formalities.
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/sjha1618/status/910415613373300736

Tejas Banao, Desh Bachao - This should be our slogan :)
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by Rakesh »

Just read Saurav Jha's latest tweets on the Tejas. Read it all!!!

https://twitter.com/SJha1618
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by Austin »

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/911050751757053952

In this video, IAF pilots from the operational 45 sqdrn are all praise for the Tejas. Hear it from the horse's mouth

https://m.facebook.com/plugins/video.ph ... 5747621%2F&
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by suryag »

wonderful cockpit, am in love with it, and going by what IR ji says w.r.t hardpoints it can replace those katara rust bucket migs which our brave and talented pilots fly day in and day out
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by Austin »

Checking out these videos coming out lately looks like the knives are in the open with DRDO/ADA supporting the Tejas and would want to see the Single Engine program get cancelled and opt for more of Tejas versus MOD/IAF who would want to import another 100-200 single engine fighter.
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by Marten »

Austin wrote:Checking out these videos coming out lately looks like the knives are in the open with DRDO/ADA supporting the Tejas and would want to see the Single Engine program get cancelled and opt for more of Tejas versus MOD/IAF who would want to import another 100-200 single engine fighter.
DRDO/ADA Supporting Tejas
versus IAF
Please.

The video is BY THE IAF! Not by ADA/HAL.
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by JayS »

Austin wrote:Checking out these videos coming out lately looks like the knives are in the open with DRDO/ADA supporting the Tejas and would want to see the Single Engine program get cancelled and opt for more of Tejas versus MOD/IAF who would want to import another 100-200 single engine fighter.
That channel has many videos including on MiG21, C17, Akbar and so on. I guess ADA/DRDO is lending support for them too, haan ji?
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by jamwal »

The video is by that channel, not IAF or HAL.
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by SaiK »

A mach 4 missile should have higher launch speed(or faster ramp-up - exact details?)/thrust while on the rail (fraction of second before release after pilot presses the button). So there is a momentary hold to build the thrust before it let go of the hard point rail. It must sheer any connection/data feeds etc pre-launch. moi thinking there is a huge difference in the way r73 and python work here. We are talking two different thrust profile.

no?
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by Indranil »

No. Incorrect. A Mach 4 capable missile can be launched from 0 airspeed.
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by Manish_Sharma »

Kakarat wrote:India’s Tejas Set For Fresh Missile Fight - Livefist
The LCA is, however, making progress on the Python-5’s sister weapon, the beyond visual range Derby.
Python does have lots of fins vs Derby:

Image
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by fanne »

Current lcas are 2032 or 2052?
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by Indranil »

Modified 2032.
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by ashishvikas »

Anything happening for MK1-A ? any chaiwala news ?
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by ramana »

Manish_Sharma wrote:
Python does have lots of fins vs Derby:



LCA wing was redesigned for R-73 AAM.

R-73 weighs 105 kg
Python 5 weighs 103.5 kg
ASRAAM weighs 88 kg.

Only this is its possible that Python control surfaces are getting the vibration as its close to the R-73 weight.

We need to look at Python vs R 73 control surfaces.

Image

One thing I don't get is LCA so marginally designed that slightest variant throws it off?
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by SaiK »

Indranil wrote:No. Incorrect. A Mach 4 capable missile can be launched from 0 airspeed.
like, say, perfectly fit for internal weapon's bay release? I know it is at ZERO just before launch and so would be r73 or any missile. But there is some difference in the launch characteristics /variables here, and hence my question.

Okay, let me reword: scenario - it is not ZERO. and it is not left the rails yet, and we have \delta t window to study. Is this the same time for r73 or any missile or there is some difference in python?

BTW, I am asking from layman's POV onree
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by pralay »

Marten wrote:
Austin wrote:Checking out these videos coming out lately looks like the knives are in the open with DRDO/ADA supporting the Tejas and would want to see the Single Engine program get cancelled and opt for more of Tejas versus MOD/IAF who would want to import another 100-200 single engine fighter.
DRDO/ADA Supporting Tejas
versus IAF
Please.
The video is BY THE IAF! Not by ADA/HAL.
Marten ji, the word knives is synnonym of daggers. 45th Sqd. The Flying Daggers.
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by vina »

ramana wrote:One thing I don't get is LCA so marginally designed that slightest variant throws it off?
It is a missile issue, not a plane issue . My guess is that some of the primary vibration modes of the Python V are setting off a flutter at certain flight profiles. My guess is basically missile structural response mode issues.

JMT etc and the usual disclaimers.
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by Gyan »

Making mountain out of mole hill of minor vibrations at particular speed may have more to do with dalal lobby of R73 vs ASRAAM vs Python 5 competing with each other rather than LCA. It would be more than Billion dollar order
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Post by Philip »

Python vs ASRAAM.One would prefer commonality,ASRAAM.The weight issue is also crucial to the LCA.Derby used by the IN's SHs earlier,but the CAG reported that the AAM didn't meet specs reg. range in tests. For the umpteenth time,can anyone ascertain whether the KLCA has passed its gun firing trials as yet? Crucial for dogfights.
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