LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 08 Jan 2018 01:56

Remarkable aircraft. IAF would do well to make use of it in large numbers.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Jan 2018 02:51

A conformal option can come up freeing up those two massive slots for lightweight brahmos integration.

1200 liters would equal to 800 odd kgs per tank, + empty tank weight

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 08 Jan 2018 03:13

https://twitter.com/sjha1618/status/950029992112439296 ---> Others are realizing that building the HAL Tejas in large numbers is the only realistic option to rebuild and/or enhance squadron strength and grow the domestic aerospace industry. It is also an admission that the single-engine tender will not really take off.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Jan 2018 05:41

someone posted a new video of flying daggers squad view of LCA v=NRcDmtmWQVE

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 08 Jan 2018 09:28

That is a non-licensed copy of ADA's original video from last year. IAF's video contains excerpts from this video.

viveksonkhla · Post by **viveksonkhla** » 08 Jan 2018 09:29

#TejasUpdate #7 | SP5 from the 2nd production facility of #HAL (erstwhile Kiran hangar) is ready to kiss the skies. It has completed HSTT & 1st flight likely this week. SP7 finishes contract flying and awaits a letter from #IAF HQ for customer flying.
https://twitter.com/writetake/status/950212930255044608

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 08 Jan 2018 09:31

If SEF falls through, will we see an additional line of Tejas? HAL will do itself a huge favor by bringing an additional line

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Jan 2018 10:13

If SEF? SEF must fail. And Mk2 realised

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 08 Jan 2018 10:30

120 MK 1As coming off the lines smoothly will be the best ad. for more of the same.A MK-1 with an ELTA 2052 AESA radar,plus an assortment of PGMs and Astra will be quite enough to build in large qty. like the MIG-21s.The design and contours of MK-2 , perhaps with stealth features, could come later after the 1A has proven itself.

The SEF must gently fade away into the sunset unless the GOI really opens its purse strings, plans for a 1000 strong fleet with 50+ frontline sqds.,with approx 400 of these being in the light category.It can then induct around 120 or so SEFs with around 300 LCAs to boot.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Jan 2018 10:49

I don't remember having read any cancellation of 99 GE F414-INs6.

srai · Post by **srai** » 08 Jan 2018 11:56

ArjunPandit wrote:If SEF falls through, will we see an additional line of Tejas? HAL will do itself a huge favor by bringing an additional line

SEF won't fall through anytime soon. These mega-import projects have a long-life of their own. MMRCA was a 15-year saga before it was cancelled and 36 units were bought instead to pacify all parties involved.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 08 Jan 2018 15:39

SaiK wrote:I don't remember having read any cancellation of 99 GE F414-INs6.

Has the contract even been inked ?

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 08 Jan 2018 16:18

SaiK wrote:I don't remember having read any cancellation of 99 GE F414-INs6.

Thakur_B wrote:Has the contract even been inked ?

No publicly disclosure has been made so far by GE in either its press releases or its public filings of any contract for 99 GE F414s with the MOD or HAL.

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 08 Jan 2018 17:09

SaiK wrote:A conformal option can come up freeing up those two massive slots for lightweight brahmos integration.

1200 liters would equal to 800 odd kgs per tank, + empty tank weight

1200ltr jet fuel ~ 1000kg in fuel itself. Then some weight in empty tank and pylon. Comes out to be almost equal to ~1100-1150kg.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 08 Jan 2018 18:32

SaiK wrote:
1200 liters would equal to 800 odd kgs per tank, + empty tank weight

Sai ji, kerosene has a density of .78, 1200 litres is almost 940 kgs. Plus empty weight of tank would be 120 kgs or more, then weight of pylon, and then some margin for turbulence/drag induced forces.

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 08 Jan 2018 19:08

Indranil wrote:IIRC the heaviest that it has shown is 3.5 tons. It is true that there was runway to spare.

Do you remember the 4 ton config?

I have 4T figure hanging in my mind. Let me try to find out. We once had discussion on LCA payload. May be its not at Leh.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 08 Jan 2018 19:18

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/sjha1618/status/950029992112439296 ---> Others are realizing that building the HAL Tejas in large numbers is the only realistic option to rebuild and/or enhance squadron strength and grow the domestic aerospace industry. It is also an admission that the single-engine tender will not really take off.

BRF - always ahead of the curve.

shettyp · Post by **shettyp** » 08 Jan 2018 22:21

I have had this wishing thinking for a while that a possible solution is that Navy buys (given that's what they have decided) one of F18 or Rafale for both the carriers, as the new planes come in move all the Mig 29k to IAF and the IAF cancels the SEF and goes full blown on ramping up the LCA versions which can be progressive. Before everyone jumps on me for the wishful thinking with the technicalities of why this is not possible, this is just an out of box thought for the entire logjam right now between IAF and Navy.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Jan 2018 22:37

Vivek K Could be others read BRF and write?

The PV 5 flying would be a big boost to LCA production as that qualifies the 1/2 line.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 09 Jan 2018 00:44

viveksonkhla wrote:#TejasUpdate #7 | SP5 from the 2nd production facility of #HAL (erstwhile Kiran hangar) is ready to kiss the skies. It has completed HSTT & 1st flight likely this week. SP7 finishes contract flying and awaits a letter from #IAF HQ for customer flying.
https://twitter.com/writetake/status/950212930255044608

Great! So the issue that delayed its first flight has been licked!

And with SP7 about to be handed over, the squadron strength will be 6 SPs and 1 Tejas trainer, PV6.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 09 Jan 2018 05:00

JayS wrote:
Indranil wrote:IIRC the heaviest that it has shown is 3.5 tons. It is true that there was runway to spare.

Do you remember the 4 ton config?
I have 4T figure hanging in my mind. Let me try to find out. We once had discussion on LCA payload. May be its not at Leh.

We had the discussion that the payload at sea level cannot be limited to 3.5 tons as LCA has already demonstrably flown with 4 Tons of payload. Also for an aircraft taking off from Leh in in summer with 3.0-3.5 tons of payload cannot be limited to 4.0 tons in the plains.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 09 Jan 2018 06:55

A while back there was news that LCA Navy would be made both CATOBAR and STOBAR capable. Has there been any further news to confirm this ?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 Jan 2018 10:17

^thanks for correcting.. i took petrol weights!

that is a beautiful pic.. well the tweets are different. so, let me repost:

#TejasUpdate #8
The first Customer Acceptance Flight of #Tejas SP-7 is over with No 45 Sqn #FlyingDaggers Co Grp Capt Madhav Rangachari taking the bird out on its official sortie. Couple of more flights and SP-7 will be part of the Sqn soon.
@akananth | #IAF | #LCA | #Bangalore
https://twitter.com/writetake/status/950587566482321409

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 09 Jan 2018 11:40

ramana wrote:Vivek K Could be others read BRF and write?

The PV 5 flying would be a big boost to LCA production as that qualifies the 1/2 line.

Quite possible. That is why we need to project a more swadeshi line to boost national defense and economic security.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 09 Jan 2018 12:03

SaiK wrote:^thanks for correcting.. i took petrol weights!

that is a beautiful pic.. well the tweets are different. so, let me repost:

#TejasUpdate #8
The first Customer Acceptance Flight of #Tejas SP-7 is over with No 45 Sqn #FlyingDaggers Co Grp Capt Madhav Rangachari taking the bird out on its official sortie. Couple of more flights and SP-7 will be part of the Sqn soon.
@akananth | #IAF | #LCA | #Bangalore
https://twitter.com/writetake/status/950587566482321409

Indranil / Jay

In the above picture is that part of the fuselage between the spine and middle of the wing that contributes to the higher transonic drag and what is sought to be mitigated by the plug in Mk2?

disha · Post by **disha** » 09 Jan 2018 12:03

SaiK wrote:
<pic deleted>

Is it the photo of SP7 and if it is, do I see a change in the way the canopy is shaped?

Tejas is a very beautiful bird. And the way it swoops down reminds me of sting rays.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 09 Jan 2018 13:29

Sachin sahab,

No. That is the fairing to make the wing body interface smooth. It reduces drag and RCS. Since you had shown a propensity to learn more aerodynamics, here are four pointers: read about interference drag, friction drag, wave drag and smooth wing body interface.

Disha, that’s an old image.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 09 Jan 2018 13:31

There was some great zaika in the chai today. AMCA and Mk2 has been sanctioned. Hopefully funds will also start to flow in soon.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 09 Jan 2018 13:37

Whooooa!! That's great news bro!! Thanks for sharing... Congrats everyone who all waited with baited breath...

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 09 Jan 2018 13:37

Indranil wrote:There was some great zaika in the chai today. AMCA and Mk2 has been sanctioned. Hopefully funds will also start to flow in soon.

Any link or Official news

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 09 Jan 2018 13:41

Indranil wrote:There was some great zaika in the chai today. AMCA and Mk2 has been sanctioned. Hopefully funds will also start to flow in soon.

I have been saying for a while that LCA flight is just taking off and there are big positives ahead

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 09 Jan 2018 13:56

Although the breeze slightly lifted my lungi off the ground. But it will be fully deployed only when funds are released.

Good signs though.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 09 Jan 2018 14:01

I still dont see as many Tejas taking off as i would expect given the flogging that the first batch of SU-30Ks got or may be they are out practicing at other locations. Meanwhile, had one question in general about trainers and their place in the squadrons. We have/had MOFTUs where MiG pilots would fly trainers and then goto operational squadrons, havent heard of JOFTUs, essentially, what am looking for is do trainers become part of operational squadrons like M2K squadrons or they become some OFTUs and what would this be in the case of Tejas. I hope the first squadron is flogging their birds so that entire logistics and maintenance requirement and corresponding impact on the supply chain is worked out while they are in BLR

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 09 Jan 2018 14:11

Indranil wrote:Sachin sahab,

No. That is the fairing to make the wing body interface smooth. It reduces drag and RCS. Since you had shown a propensity to learn more aerodynamics, here are four pointers: read about interference drag, friction drag, wave drag and smooth wing body interface.

Disha, that’s an old image.

Thanks Indranil,

Are we talking about the same thing? I am talking about the area where the upper part of the wing meets the fuselage and then continues to the spine. I am especially interested in the area behind the canopy and forward of the intake in front of the tail. To my rather ageing eyes could the bleeding be smoother?

Indulge me. I am reading up on all that you are point me at..

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 09 Jan 2018 14:15

Akshay Kapoor wrote:
Indranil wrote:There was some great zaika in the chai today. AMCA and Mk2 has been sanctioned. Hopefully funds will also start to flow in soon.
I have been saying for a while that LCA flight is just taking off and there are big positives ahead

Now the icing on the cake will be someone officially burying that stupid SEF thingy!!

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 09 Jan 2018 14:22

suryag wrote:I still dont see as many Tejas taking off as i would expect given the flogging that the first batch of SU-30Ks got or may be they are out practicing at other locations. Meanwhile, had one question in general about trainers and their place in the squadrons. We have/had MOFTUs where MiG pilots would fly trainers and then goto operational squadrons, havent heard of JOFTUs, essentially, what am looking for is do trainers become part of operational squadrons like M2K squadrons or they become some OFTUs and what would this be in the case of Tejas. I hope the first squadron is flogging their birds so that entire logistics and maintenance requirement and corresponding impact on the supply chain is worked out while they are in BLR

In MOFTU Mig pilots mostly flew single seat fighters. Trainers are used on sortie profiles which require a "Dual" flight with instructor or examiner. MOFTU may have had more trainers but not all were trainers.

Trainers are also part of operational Sqns

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 09 Jan 2018 14:30

deejay sir,
I presume MOFTU is still operational. Once the Mig are out will that be mothballed or do you see that morphing into some thing else. Also Wiki chacha says MOFTU imparted Stage 3 trng on the Mig 21's. What about the other Migs or other fighter aircraft?

kancha · Post by **kancha** » 09 Jan 2018 14:44

ArjunPandit wrote:
On a serious note I was thinking of learning basic physics of a fighter jet ...any recommendations for basic physics from Jay, want to start with some basic and preferably with numericals

'Flight Without Formulae' by AC Kermode is a masterpiece. Written before WW2, it remains one of the best books to understand basic aerodynamics. I read it before I took up aeromodelling exactly one decade ago.
But as the name suggests, it is without numericals .. so I'm not quite sure whether it will meet your needs.
A quick google search shows pdf versions available for download. May have a look

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 09 Jan 2018 14:56

ks_sachin wrote:deejay sir,
I presume MOFTU is still operational. Once the Mig are out will that be mothballed or do you see that morphing into some thing else. Also Wiki chacha says MOFTU imparted Stage 3 trng on the Mig 21's. What about the other Migs or other fighter aircraft?

Not updated on the MOFTU status Sir.

Training is part of every Sqn duties.

At MOFTU, syllabus flying in CAP etc role are completed. I do not have more details to write with authority on this.

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 09 Jan 2018 15:05

ks_sachin wrote:
Indranil wrote:Sachin sahab,

No. That is the fairing to make the wing body interface smooth. It reduces drag and RCS. Since you had shown a propensity to learn more aerodynamics, here are four pointers: read about interference drag, friction drag, wave drag and smooth wing body interface.

Disha, that’s an old image.
Thanks Indranil,

Are we talking about the same thing? I am talking about the area where the upper part of the wing meets the fuselage and then continues to the spine. I am especially interested in the area behind the canopy and forward of the intake in front of the tail. To my rather ageing eyes could the bleeding be smoother?

Indulge me. I am reading up on all that you are point me at..

IR is referring to exactly that area. Its the fuselage-wing blending. Well, I also do not like the blending on LCA all that much. It could be much better. But this one is LSP. SPs have much better build quality and are somewhat easier on eyes. I expect MK2 to have much better blending in general, similar to Rafale or Gripen.

The transonic drag part you mentioned, which will be taken care of by the plug, is near the canopy. The proposed plug is going to be placed between the back of the canopy and the start of the wing. Read following paper to see where the discontinuity lies in the area curve (original link on NAL server seems dead).

http://studyres.com/doc/22195794/influe ... g-of-a-gen...