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LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Dileep
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Dileep » 25 Aug 2017 18:05

Hm... a few days ago, my chaiwala friend had in fact told me that there maybe takers for his cup-2 and mango chais after all. I thought that was wishfool thinking onlee...

So, if you are not simply guessing....

Dileep
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Dileep » 25 Aug 2017 18:07

<poof!>
Last edited by Dileep on 26 Aug 2017 06:13, edited 1 time in total.

negi
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby negi » 25 Aug 2017 19:38

UB my knowledges of the changes being done under the current GOI also is on same page as you ; lot of long pending projects have been dissolved and Tejas is now being tracked at PMO level or so I have heard , now I am a cynical idiot and having seen projects fail despite daily tracking I am not sure if all this will matter but the 'intent' seems to be there so that is a positive change .

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Gyan » 25 Aug 2017 19:44

Tracking is one more level of bureaucracy unless accompanied by massive funds & quick decision making.

SaiK
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby SaiK » 26 Aug 2017 02:46

Gyan wrote:Tracking is one more level of bureaucracy unless accompanied by massive funds & quick decision making.

It depends on the project status firstly. how did we charter, how did we progress and what is current that can come to a logical conclusion.

No one is perfect, but all can follow a process. Without metrics, one can't optimize. This is not about politics, but products and services.
If GoI is going to cancel LCA for other single engine fighters, then it is a sad state of affairs that GoI is taken by firangites.

A well-defined process should not be viewed as bureaucratic.

Manish_Sharma
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Manish_Sharma » 26 Aug 2017 03:35

[quote="Dileep"]OMG!! This is my five thousandth post on beeyaareff.

Congratulations!

To commemorate, can we have another Spy story from you? :)
Last edited by Manish_Sharma on 26 Aug 2017 05:13, edited 1 time in total.

Karan M
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Karan M » 26 Aug 2017 03:39

As predicted by yours truly.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... s?from=mdr

MOD should say yes, if the IAF commits to another 83 LCAs & the LCA Mk2. ;)

nachiket
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby nachiket » 26 Aug 2017 03:45

Considering how much the original 36 Rafales cost, we also need to put out an RFP for a tree that grows $$$.

Karan M
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Karan M » 26 Aug 2017 03:47

Come sir, first it has to be a RFI, then a RFP. After that the tree will be cancelled because it was single vendor.

Karan M
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Karan M » 26 Aug 2017 03:48

Having said that, there really is no point in having only a 36 Rafale force. Another 36 make ample sense.

Manish_Sharma
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Manish_Sharma » 26 Aug 2017 04:24

Karan M wrote:As predicted by yours truly.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... s?from=mdr

MOD should say yes, if the IAF commits to another 83 LCAs & the LCA Mk2. ;)


Please please tweet to PMO. And also email as feedback on "Mann ki baat". He mentioned Tejas in ID speech specifically. You never know arrow might hit Bullseye.

Karan M
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Karan M » 26 Aug 2017 04:30

I dont have a twitter account, but i will email. Any ids suggested? (Please use at instead of @ to avoid spam)

Manish_Sharma
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Manish_Sharma » 26 Aug 2017 04:37

Karan M wrote:I dont have a twitter account, but i will email. Any ids suggested? (Please use at instead of @ to avoid spam)


Here:

http://bit.ly/2wccKta

Cosmo_R
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Cosmo_R » 26 Aug 2017 04:39

Another 36 Rafale for ~$8.5 billion +, then another 36 for $8.5 billion ++ and pretty soon it will add up to some serious money :) . If the IAF has its way on this, forget the LCA, AMCA, FGFA. We will be importing les tournevis too. This is the MIF vs MII.

Karan M
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Karan M » 26 Aug 2017 04:39

Thanks Manish!

Must watch.

From the Cockpit of LCA Tejas : An Interview with Gp Capt Suneet Krishna

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dc0x4HJbZ8

Cy, IAF claims second batch will be at 60% of price of first 36 units.

ramana
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby ramana » 26 Aug 2017 05:09

Dileep, While we congratulats you for your 5K post, a lungi dance GIF is not appropriate fir LCA thread. Its more apt for GDF.
Please delete the GIF.

Thanks,
Ramana
------

Dileep Thank you so much.

Ramana

ramana
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby ramana » 26 Aug 2017 05:10

IN, Please tone down your welcome Bhasha. No plans for tiers of members. Quite repugnant idea in a democracy.

Thakur_B
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Thakur_B » 26 Aug 2017 06:57

Chinmay wrote:^ +108. Members who have served in the armed forces should have separate tags of some sort as should people who arent service members but have extensive domain knowledge.


They did it on DFI. The post quality from the majority of them was abysmal.

UlanBatori
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby UlanBatori » 26 Aug 2017 07:11

The Rafale also has a faster turnaround time, capable of undertaking five sorties in a day. The existing fighters in the IAF combat fleet, in contrast, can do only three sorties at the most.

In ur dreams. In Syria they have done about 3 sorties in 3 years. OTOH the Russians in their old Su-24s have done more than that.

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Gagan » 26 Aug 2017 07:36

If the next batch of 36 Rafales are at 60% cost, then the cost will be 4.8-5.0 Billion dollars, $135 million per plane

Karan M
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Karan M » 26 Aug 2017 07:52

With weapons and spares, mind. LCC not platform costs. But wrong thread.

shiv
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby shiv » 26 Aug 2017 08:06

ramana wrote:IN, Please tone down your welcome Bhasha. No plans for tiers of members. Quite repugnant idea in a democracy.

This forum is democratic? :rotfl: When were the forum leaders last elected? When is the next election?

Indranil
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Indranil » 26 Aug 2017 08:38

UlanBatori wrote:
The Rafale also has a faster turnaround time, capable of undertaking five sorties in a day. The existing fighters in the IAF combat fleet, in contrast, can do only three sorties at the most.

In ur dreams. In Syria they have done about 3 sorties in 3 years. OTOH the Russians in their old Su-24s have done more than that.

What did you just make me do? Read a Rajat Pandit article. ARGGGGHHHH !!!!

Look at his misrepresentations:
The twin-engine Rafale, in turn, has a much longer combat range from 780-km to 1,650-km depending on the mission, and can carry a 9.3-tonne weapon load.

So, he presents the best ferry range: obviously with 2 AAMS and three large tanks AND the highest payload together. :roll:

On the other hand,
While IAF is also backing the long-delayed indigenous Tejas light combat aircraft, the single-engine fighter with a limited 400-km range and 2.5-tonne weapon load can be used primarily for "air defence" to take on incoming enemy jets.

He underplays both the range and the payload of the Tejas. Tejas's current payload capacity is north of 3.8 Tons. Its range has never been established. But, we know that it flew unrefueled from Bangalore to Gwalior (1300 km+). I don't need to tell you more.

Further,
With 14 India-specific requirements, including the capability for "cold start" from high-altitude regions, the Rafale can simultaneously perform both air defence and ground attack missions.

Bhai, the whole of LCA is India specific. For example Rafale, did not start when it first went to Leh after a cold soak. It had to be modified. LCA never had that problem! LCA demonstrated its swing role capability infront of everybody at Ironfist. It shot an AAM and delivered an LGB within seconds! But, hey Viva-le-France (with a fake accent).


I seldom get the urge to use chaste language, but this guy gets them flowing effortlessly.

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Indranil » 26 Aug 2017 08:40

shiv wrote:
ramana wrote:IN, Please tone down your welcome Bhasha. No plans for tiers of members. Quite repugnant idea in a democracy.

This forum is democratic? :rotfl: When were the forum leaders last elected? When is the next election?

Hakeem, the country is. Let the moderators do their job. This belittling and condescension of moderators on every thread is neither called for, nor helpful.

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby putnanja » 26 Aug 2017 09:54

Dileep wrote:Hm... a few days ago, my chaiwala friend had in fact told me that there maybe takers for his cup-2 and mango chais after all. I thought that was wishfool thinking onlee...

So, if you are not simply guessing....


LCA-MKII & AMCA?

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby arvin » 26 Aug 2017 09:58

Karan M wrote:As predicted by yours truly.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... s?from=mdr

MOD should say yes, if the IAF commits to another 83 LCAs & the LCA Mk2. ;)


Article is by Rajat pandit. No reason to believe it unless official release. I think Tejas is coming up nicely hence these selective 'leaks'. Feel Rafales affair with IAF is over.
Hence this 60% discount offer.

Dileep
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Dileep » 26 Aug 2017 13:40

I take the Rafale article as third data point :)

putnanja, "is there another kind?".

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby ashishvikas » 26 Aug 2017 14:15

Dileep wrote:I take the Rafale article as third data point :)

putnanja, "is there another kind?".


Sir, Your whisper are difficult to understand. Please be little more louder/Clear.

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Gyan » 26 Aug 2017 14:29

I don't think that another 36 Rafales are going to be ordered anytime soon. But this is just a start of 3 to 5 year Campaign of Brain washing and View Modulation so that as and when Rs 40,000 crores are wasted then everyone will say Wah Janab!

Foreign Arms Manufactures are not only sellers but also connected with Intelligence and Geopolitical manipulations. Do you think that they will ever let Indians develop Militarily Industrial complex easily? Let me give you an example. Another high decibel campaign was run for AJT with use of words like "Flying Coffins" but now you never hear it. Has the number of aircraft crashing decreased? or Mig-21 stopped flying?

Has IAF taken any step to develop follow on to Hawk? Should we not plan 20 year ahead?

abhik
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby abhik » 26 Aug 2017 16:12

^^^
It still makes more sense to double down on Rafale than that other mega boondoggle that is the FGFA.

Gagan
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Gagan » 26 Aug 2017 18:02

Gyan wrote:I don't think that another 36 Rafales are going to be ordered anytime soon. But this is just a start of 3 to 5 year Campaign of Brain washing and View Modulation so that as and when Rs 40,000 crores are wasted then everyone will say Wah Janab!

Completely on the dot !
This is EXACTLY what it is

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Bhaskar_T » 26 Aug 2017 18:24

Folks - This is LCA Dhaaga. With so much activity on thread, I thought either SP5 flew or new date for FOC arrived. Is it possible to move Rafale discussion to Rafale Dhaaga?

Manish_Sharma
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Manish_Sharma » 26 Aug 2017 20:30

No stealth-ftealth for me. I want a bomb truck TejasM (Mota) , powered by f136 :



Just a little correction in shape of wings and canopy (exactly as Tejas Mk 1) . 18 pylons with multiple racks dropping Garuthma, Spice and Sudarshan bombs raining on haji peer pass , skardu & northern Dharamsala. :twisted:


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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby fanne » 26 Aug 2017 20:43

As much I think Russian stuff of late is not upto scratch, FGFA is at least a generation ahead of Rafael. We may buy another 36 but that should not be at the cost of either LCA, AMCA or FGFA.

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby fanne » 26 Aug 2017 20:57

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dc0x4HJbZ8

From the link above (in words of a LCA test pilot)
LCA is contemporary, and since it is our design, it will remain cutting edge till the end. E.g. If indeed it gets 2052, it will be the first IAF plane to sport a AESA radar. It may also then have the best A-A long range missile in IAF and the best EW suite.
It's small size and thus range will continue to be it's major drawback, but then it will be more than sufficient to fulfill the light weight role/category. We should go for it, some 200-300 in numbers (including its many Avatars - Mark2, mark 3, stretched, dual engine, ground support, TVC, stealth optomised etc etc.)

Gagan
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Gagan » 26 Aug 2017 21:40

Dual engine avatar should be the next one they should do.
Make it a DPSA ground attack / maritime strike version for Jaguar replacement

YashG
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby YashG » 27 Aug 2017 07:22

fanne wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dc0x4HJbZ8

From the link above (in words of a LCA test pilot)
LCA is contemporary, and since it is our design, it will remain cutting edge till the end. E.g. If indeed it gets 2052, it will be the first IAF plane to sport a AESA radar. It may also then have the best A-A long range missile in IAF and the best EW suite.
It's small size and thus range will continue to be it's major drawback, but then it will be more than sufficient to fulfill the light weight role/category. We should go for it, some 200-300 in numbers (including its many Avatars - Mark2, mark 3, stretched, dual engine, ground support, TVC, stealth optomised etc etc.)


Yes very much. Continue avionics upgradation and if possible, engine upgrades coupled with stealth optimisation shud keep lca going along for a long time. Infact i dream about lca being the fighter of choice for small countries, with smaller geographical areas - a global air defence fighter that is low cost, cheap to operate. It could be a world beater in terms of exports too.
Last edited by YashG on 27 Aug 2017 10:27, edited 1 time in total.

ramana
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby ramana » 27 Aug 2017 09:39

Indranil wrote:
shiv wrote:This forum is democratic? :rotfl: When were the forum leaders last elected? When is the next election?

Hakeem, the country is. Let the moderators do their job. This belittling and condescension of moderators on every thread is neither called for, nor helpful.

Thanks Indranil. Thats what I ment.

Cain Marko
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Cain Marko » 27 Aug 2017 09:56

Gagan wrote:Dual engine avatar should be the next one they should do.
Make it a DPSA ground attack / maritime strike version for Jaguar replacement

But it can be far more than just dpsa. Even with the current 8.5 ton engines and the empty weight increasing to the std. 10-11 tons, you will have an absolutely powerful a2a bird.

Gagan
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Gagan » 27 Aug 2017 09:57

Yes, absolutely.
LCA is a Mirage 2000 beater
That bird can be a Rafale beater
It can be the answer to the INs carrier fighter woes too!


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