Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

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Khalsa
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Khalsa » 08 Feb 2020 16:47

tsarkar wrote:
Khalsa wrote:^^^^A normal road accident. Nothing else.

Karma is a great equaliser given the way he denigrated Indian Pilots/Engineers wherever an accidental air crash happened in India.


I think even Allah had enough of his foolish childish antics. Hardly becoming that expected of an army officer of the rank of a division or a corps etc.
Most officers I have been at that rank and age are so chilled out that I could not believe this stuff this man was coming up with.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby chola » 08 Feb 2020 19:05

The AESA radar for the Block 3 Blunder:

https://mobile.twitter.com/RupprechtDeino/status/1225917323569135616


@Rupprecht_A
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AFAIK the first image of the KLJ-7A variant with the additional cheek arrays with the yellow cover removed ... anyone want to count the elements?
For comparison an older image with the yellow cover attached.

Image

Image




Someone in the thread estimated 1200 elements.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby nam » 09 Feb 2020 04:26

JF17 doesn't have the power required to carry a 1200 TRM AESA. If a KLJ AESA is choosen, then it is probably a variant of actual radar will be used.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby chola » 09 Feb 2020 20:48

nam wrote:JF17 doesn't have the power required to carry a 1200 TRM AESA. If a KLJ AESA is choosen, then it is probably a variant of actual radar will be used.


There is a possibility of an engine change in the Block 3 with an uprated WS-13 variant called the IPE (posted in chini mil thread.) The penultimate Blunder block is supposed to be powered by the WS-19 slated for the porkis' AZM 5th Gen (FC-31.)

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby nam » 09 Feb 2020 21:53

chola wrote:
nam wrote:JF17 doesn't have the power required to carry a 1200 TRM AESA. If a KLJ AESA is choosen, then it is probably a variant of actual radar will be used.


There is a possibility of an engine change in the Block 3 with an uprated WS-13 variant called the IPE (posted in chini mil thread.) The penultimate Blunder block is supposed to be powered by the WS-19 slated for the porkis' AZM 5th Gen (FC-31.)


I think i read somewhere that PAF has decided to stick with the Russian engine. They know, they cannot depend on a unproven engine on a SE fighter, which will become the backbone of their fleet.

The WS13 is listed at 90KN, that is 6KN more than the F404 on LCA MK1! It will still not have enough power for a 1200 TRM radar. If it is claimed to be the "air cooled" version, then it indicates two things: lack of power, that's why air cooled and if 1200 TRM is true, then excess TRM to maintain higher failure rates, compared to a liquid cooled version.

Once our AESA FCR, SFDR, XRSAM, MWF starts rolling, Chinese wouldn't be able to provide the tech equivalence, as they will need to sell their top line kit to allow Pak to compete with us.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby chola » 09 Feb 2020 22:31

^^^ Nam ji, the Pakis went for the RD-93 over the WS-13 for Block 2. (Block 1 was before WS-13 was ready.) Block 3 with AESA and other requirements might force their hand. The IPE is an uprated version so it might be close to the 100 kN of F414. The weakness of chini engines is reliability/longevity. Any uptick in thrust would result in a shorter even less reliable life.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby tsarkar » 10 Feb 2020 13:04

Mounting that radar on JF-17 would me like mounting an AWACS radar on a Maruti 800 :rotfl:

Power, cooling, weight, solved by Djinn technology.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby kit » 10 Feb 2020 16:59

nam wrote:
chola wrote:
There is a possibility of an engine change in the Block 3 with an uprated WS-13 variant called the IPE (posted in chini mil thread.) The penultimate Blunder block is supposed to be powered by the WS-19 slated for the porkis' AZM 5th Gen (FC-31.)


I think i read somewhere that PAF has decided to stick with the Russian engine. They know, they cannot depend on a unproven engine on a SE fighter, which will become the backbone of their fleet.

The WS13 is listed at 90KN, that is 6KN more than the F404 on LCA MK1! It will still not have enough power for a 1200 TRM radar. If it is claimed to be the "air cooled" version, then it indicates two things: lack of power, that's why air cooled and if 1200 TRM is true, then excess TRM to maintain higher failure rates, compared to a liquid cooled version.

Once our AESA FCR, SFDR, XRSAM, MWF starts rolling, Chinese wouldn't be able to provide the tech equivalence, as they will need to sell their top line kit to allow Pak to compete with us.


The top of line US or China equipment with PAF will run the risk of exposure of it's capabilities to either country

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby ArjunPandit » 10 Feb 2020 17:41

The other side of it would be that least china would still prefer to fight India through pakis rather than directly. It's a low cost option for them to get their equipment battle hardened. They might put their military advisors like russia had mig honchos in korean war. Not sure if chinese would have honchos or ponchos but it still makes sense for them to scare India and make us keep looking west rather than east. US may not be able to provide eqpmt but can always provide funding in the name of humanitarian devices and under table dealings. Not top of line but still can give considerable war fighting like M109. Keeping pakis alive is in the interest until India acts and renders those causes useless..

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Kartik » 13 Feb 2020 00:19

PAF to receive first 12 JF-17B combat trainers in near future

Deliveries of the first 12 of 26 twin-seat JF-17B Thunder multirole combat aircraft on order for the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) are expected to commence "in the near future", PAF officials have told Jane's .

Eight of these aircraft were built at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) in Kamra, while the remaining four were constructed by the Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group (CAIG) in China, where the aircraft type is known as the FC-1 Xiaolong.

The aircraft, several of which are equipped with aerial refuelling probes, had been rolled out at PAC Kamra in late December 2019 during a ceremony that was also attended by the PAF's Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Mujahid Anwar Khan. Delivery of the remaining JF-17Bs is expected to be completed by 2021.

Speaking to Jane's on 20 January, ACM Khan explained that the JF-17Bs will help to streamline the PAF's training process for the Thunder. "The JF-17 pilots are currently being posted to Lockheed Martin F-16, Chengdu F-7PG or Dassault Mirage IIIEA ROSE aircraft before converting to the JF-17," he said. "But they will start going straight to a JF-17 OCU [operational conversion unit] after completing their advanced jet training." ACM Khan added that this "will ensure that pilots transitioning to the Sino-Pakistani jet are a lot younger than they are now".

The JF-17B prototype made its first flight in China in April 2017.

Meanwhile, the PAF revealed that after a lengthy evaluation the air-cooled Nanjing Research Institute of Electronics Technology (NRIET) KLJ-7A active electronically scanned-array (AESA) radar has been selected for the Block III variant of the JF-17/ FC-1 Xiaolong, the first prototype of which made its maiden flight on 17 December from CAIG's production facility at Chengdu-Huangtianba. PAC Kamra's newly appointed chairman, Air Marshal Syed Noman Ali, said a second Block III prototype will assist in May with the test and evaluation process.


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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby chola » 13 Feb 2020 00:40

kit wrote:
The top of line US or China equipment with PAF will run the risk of exposure of it's capabilities to either country


Sleeping with a well-worn hooker is always risky.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby nam » 13 Feb 2020 01:15

I strongly support, Pak getting top of the line kit from China.

It is all due to Chinese nuke support to Pak, that today we have nuke "capable" SLBM. Otherwise we will still at PNE level. Not to mention Aim120 supply by the US is cause why our pilots are trained in dealing with the most capable BVR in the world.

God bless them, so that they provide more weapons to Pak to contain us.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Kartik » 14 Feb 2020 04:04

Some more details on the KLJ-7A AESA that has been selected to equip the JF-17 Block 3 fighters of the PAF

link

According to a recent report by aviation journalist Alan Warnes, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) selected the KLJ-7A active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar for the JF-17 Block-III.[1] The Block-III is the newest variant of the PAF’s mainstay fighters, of which it operates over 120 aircraft in multiple variants.

Developed by the Nanjing Research Institute of Electronics Technology (NRIET), the KLJ-7A was revealed in 2016 as a potential option for the JF-17. NRIET was competing against the Leihua Electronic Technology Research Institute (LETRI), which was offering its LKF601E air-cooled AESA radar.

Though the KLJ-7A was available in multiple versions, one with a fixed-array, another with a mechanically steered panel, and a form with side-mounted panels.[2] However, Warnes’ noted that the PAF opted for an air-cooled version of the KLJ-7A, potentially indicating the existence of a fourth variant.[3]

In 2016, NRIET reportedly said that the KLJ-7A offers a maximum range of 170 km against a target with a radar cross-section (RCS) of 5m2.[4] NRIET added that the KLJ-7A uses over 1,000 transmit/receive modules (TRM), and is capable of tracking 15 targets and simultaneously engaging four.[5] It also has over 11 modes for operation, including synthetic aperture radar (SAR).[6]


..

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Nikhil T » 14 Feb 2020 06:13

Pak terms US move to sell air defence weapons to India “disturbing”

https://www.dawn.com/news/1534239/pakis ... disturbing :twisted:


Pakistan on Thursday termed United States’ decision to sell integrated air-defence weapons system to India as “disturbing”, saying it would further destabilise the already volatile region.

At her weekly news briefing in Islamabad on Thursday, Foreign Office Spokesperson Aisha Farooqui said the sale of such sophisticated weapons to India would disturb the strategic balance in South Asia with security implications for Pakistan and the region.

She said defence relations between the US and India were contributing to the destabilisation of peace and security in South Asia.



Khud ki aukaad nahin, poori duniya ki khabar hai

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby chetonzz » 14 Feb 2020 10:25

third napaki tiyarra bites the dust in 2020...pilot is safe to crash another next month

socha bata du :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

https://nation.com.pk/12-Feb-2020/paf-aircraft-crashes-in-takht-bhai

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby nam » 14 Feb 2020 14:48

Pak terms US move to sell air defence weapons to India “disturbing”


Nothing hits Pak's goat more than we buying US kit. Their sense of superiority is all driven by US kit.

This is one of the reason, I want us to buy 1 sqd of F35, as silver bullet solution. Just to watch Pak go haywire..

Paks are really fearful, US will sell F35 to India..

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Manish_P » 14 Feb 2020 17:02

:lol: Good idea

Why the F35, just buy 1 squadron of the F21 (F21 > F16), assign it to TACDE, and watch the Paks lose their shit

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby ArjunPandit » 14 Feb 2020 17:07

Nikhil T wrote:Pak terms US move to sell air defence weapons to India “disturbing”

https://www.dawn.com/news/1534239/pakis ... disturbing :twisted:


Pakistan on Thursday termed United States’ decision to sell integrated air-defence weapons system to India as “disturbing”, saying it would further destabilise the already volatile region.

At her weekly news briefing in Islamabad on Thursday, Foreign Office Spokesperson Aisha Farooqui said the sale of such sophisticated weapons to India would disturb the strategic balance in South Asia with security implications for Pakistan and the region.

She said defence relations between the US and India were contributing to the destabilisation of peace and security in South Asia.



Khud ki aukaad nahin, poori duniya ki khabar hai

but werent they buying Su35 and S400 as well??? what happened to that?? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: actually if we think about it india's buys have ensured peace...how many terror attacks since goi changed tacks..US is also in peace because jobs and money flowing in...pakis are also in peacepiss

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Khalsa » 14 Feb 2020 17:09

^^^^^ Nailed ! (The mentality of)

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby chola » 14 Feb 2020 23:02

Manish_P wrote::lol: Good idea

Why the F35, just buy 1 squadron of the F21 (F21 > F16), assign it to TACDE, and watch the Paks lose their shit


This would destroy them completely. They worship theur F-Solahs like idols. A squadron of the latest and most advanced F-16s with AMRAAMs in the IAF would shatter the last pillar of their confidence.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby nam » 15 Feb 2020 00:52

We getting even a sqd of F35 will become a no-go to PAF.

I am pretty sure, that Pak will ask for F35 as the award for Afghan deal. Why is IAF obsessed with Rafale is beyond me.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Atmavik » 15 Feb 2020 01:14

ArjunPandit wrote:
Nikhil T wrote:Pak terms US move to sell air defence weapons to India “disturbing”

https://www.dawn.com/news/1534239/pakis ... disturbing :twisted:



Khud ki aukaad nahin, poori duniya ki khabar hai

but werent they buying Su35 and S400 as well??? what happened to that?? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: actually if we think about it india's buys have ensured peace...how many terror attacks since goi changed tacks..US is also in peace because jobs and money flowing in...pakis are also in peacepiss


seriously?? u used pakis and buying together ??

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby mmasand » 15 Feb 2020 02:20

chola wrote:
Manish_P wrote::lol: Good idea

Why the F35, just buy 1 squadron of the F21 (F21 > F16), assign it to TACDE, and watch the Paks lose their shit


This would destroy them completely. They worship theur F-Solahs like idols. A squadron of the latest and most advanced F-16s with AMRAAMs in the IAF would shatter the last pillar of their confidence.


Rubbish! Don't you remember what Ghafoora said, technology with India, Allah with Pakistan! Kuffar in a F-35 tayyara will come crashing down at the call of Fajr!

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Kartik » 15 Feb 2020 03:14

Corvettes based on a OPV design. These would be fodder for IN warships or airplanes in the event of hostilities.

Image

PN commissions first of two 2300 tonne corvettes

The Pakistan Navy (PN) has commissioned the first of two 2,300 tonnes multirole corvettes ordered from Dutch shipbuilder Damen in 2017.

Named PNS Yarmook (F-271), the ship, which the company said is based on a Damen Offshore Patrol Vessel (OPV) 1900, entered serviced in a ceremony held on 13 February at Constanta Port in Romania that was also attended by the PN's Vice Chief of the Naval Staff Vice Admiral Muhammad Fayyaz Gilani.

In a 14 February statement Damen said that Yarmook, which had been launched on 17 May 2019 at the company's facilities in Galati, Romania, is capable of performing "a variety of maritime operations" and can transport both a helicopter and an unmanned aerial vehicle.

The ship, which can also carry two high-speed rigid-hulled inflatable boats - of 11.5 m and 6.5 m in length - has a capacity of two twenty-foot equivalent units (TEUs) for special mission operations.

The second vessel of the class, Tabuk, which was launched on 3 September 2019, is set to enter service in May.

The Dutch shipbuilder had signed a contract with Pakistan's Ministry of Defence Production on 30 June 2017 to build two multipurpose OPVs for the PN.

PN officials had previously stated that these vessels "will act as force multipliers in enhancing [the] navy's capability of safeguarding maritime frontiers and will offer more flexibility in the conduct of [the] Pakistan Navy's initiative of independent Regional Maritime Security Patrols in the Indian Ocean Region".

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 15 Feb 2020 12:16

Calling OPV as Corvettes and spending Big Euros, I have a feeling some money must have changed hands.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Manish_P » 15 Feb 2020 13:19

nam wrote:We getting even a sqd of F35 will become a no-go to PAF.

I am pretty sure, that Pak will ask for F35 as the award for Afghan deal. Why is IAF obsessed with Rafale is beyond me.


F-35 very unlikely, Sir (S400 et al)

Buy more Rafales for the IAF and buy 1-2 squadrons of the F21 to keep Trump bahadur khush

Bonus the IAF don't need to go pratice against the Singapore F16s. IAF khush.

Then every month or so leak videos of the Vipers locked up / in the gunsights of the Rambhas, Rafales, Tejas .. watch the Pakis lose their shit

Us Jingos very khush :mrgreen:

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby nam » 15 Feb 2020 16:16

Manish_P wrote:F-35 very unlikely, Sir (S400 et al)


Give it some years. There are only two countries which are potential client for F35 and have S400. Turks & India.

Turk is NATO. All it requires is Ergadon changing his tune and F35 will be re-issued. Turks will say, we have stopped using S400. Who will come & check?

Greece has asked for F35, matter of time the Turks will do what is required to get the jets.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Manish_P » 15 Feb 2020 17:58

nam wrote:Give it some years. There are only two countries which are potential client for F35 and have S400. Turks & India.


Oh i agree, especially if by some years you mean a couple of decades.

By that time the radar/emission signatures and strengths & weaknesses of the F35 will be a known factor, King khan will probably be having 6th gen stuff in full rate production and might be in final stage testing of 7th gen platforms. As for the Turks they would likely have gone full fundoo.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Vips » 15 Feb 2020 18:38

Manish_P wrote:
Then every month or so leak videos of the Vipers locked up / in the gunsights of the Rambhas, Rafales, Tejas .. watch the Pakis lose their shit

Us Jingos very khush :mrgreen:


You kufr, dont you know that PAF now has the Bandar Block 3, they are already touting that as much superior to F16 and Rafale.
H&D is intact. AOA :lol:

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Manish_P » 15 Feb 2020 21:37

:oops: my mistake

I knew they were touting the JF17 > F16 but thought that they were touting the J20 as superior to the Rafale.

BTW is that the official PAF line or just those djinn experts on the deaf & dumb fora & the pak media?

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby yensoy » 15 Feb 2020 21:46

Aditya_V wrote:Calling OPV as Corvettes and spending Big Euros, I have a feeling some money must have changed hands.


Yes, and OTOH OPVs are perfect choices for the role of the PN, which is to sulk in the harbour in the event of threat level escalation/war.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Avinandan » 16 Feb 2020 09:14

I see nothing wrong with the OPV based Corvette options. Weapons will be fitted in Pakistan. A CIWS and 2 SSM ( in slanted launchers) and Helicopter for anti submarine warfare is speculated in dead and dumb forum. So it would be fairly armed for a Corvette.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 16 Feb 2020 13:14

Please deaf and dumb forum is doing H&D. These things need to included in design phase and not after induction. Deaf and dumb is all about crazy theories and don't believe in facts.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby shaun » 16 Feb 2020 13:33

Image

I guess there is provisions for mounting equipments

Translated from bmpd.livejournal "Both ships surrender without weapons and parts of the radar equipment, which should be installed in Pakistan and should be mainly Chinese-made. Presumably, each ship will receive two 30-mm artillery mounts and two four-container anti-ship missile launchers."

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Prithwiraj » 16 Feb 2020 18:41

Does PN also have a scarcity of Naval Helo? I remember a year back they purchased some second hand used sea kings

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 16 Feb 2020 18:46

There is no Helicopter hanger or even space/ weight of a proper Targeting radar will be an issue. There is really no space for ASM or even CIWS. Best can be attached is Naval gun in the front

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya G » 16 Feb 2020 21:06

Aditya_V wrote:Calling OPV as Corvettes and spending Big Euros, I have a feeling some money must have changed hands.


PN has always done that i.e. classify ships to one category above. Example Amazon class frigates are called "destroyers".

Designation aside it looks to be a sensible purchase, with potential to add weapons later on- a prudent strategy.

At this moment IN could also have done with more OPVs on hand.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Avinandan » 17 Feb 2020 01:06

Aditya_V wrote:There is no Helicopter hanger or even space/ weight of a proper Targeting radar will be an issue. There is really no space for ASM or even CIWS. Best can be attached is Naval gun in the front


Aditya ji,
You might be taking this product lightly.
Helicopter Hanger is present.

https://products.damen.com/en/ranges/offshore-patrol-vessel/offshore-patrol-vessel-1800?

And provisions are to be made for
1. Chinese ASW Helicopter
2. Main 30 mm Naval Gun
3. 1 Radar (behind the mast on some estension)
4. 2 Quad launchers for SSM (slanted , behind the mast)
5. 1 CIWS ( behind Starboard side funnel) possibly phalanx system from their ex ships.

Refer ship's top view at 1:24 to 1:40 of the below youtube video for point 2,34,5 above

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby ArjunPandit » 19 Feb 2020 18:40

http://idrw.org/pakistan-tests-a-new-cr ... ide-india/

nothing worthwhile...apart from the line
"
Mansoor Ahmed, a senior fellow at the Center for International Strategic Studies in Islamabad who specializes in Pakistan’s nuclear program and its delivery platforms, believes the Ra’ad-II is “Pakistan’s answer to India’s development of the Nirbhay cruise missile.”
"
rohit vats put up a post of twitter tearing this test apart...low amount of explosive..sideways hit..the video reminded me of crash if first ironman suit built in a cave in afghanistan...which i think is close enough...

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby ArjunPandit » 20 Feb 2020 12:02

Random thought just passed by me, where does Pakistan gets its yellow cake from, apart from China. Seems like their nuke weapons might have pleatued....


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