Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion

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mody
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by mody »

Minimarg is very close to the LoC near Gurez. In fact I guess in one of the wars our forces had reached to minimarg but then retreated as they felt supply line or backup support might get stretched. Further up I think is Astore valley.
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by hemant_sai »

Interesting case for drones based supply-line in WARs? At least 100KG carrying drones will be good to provide ration and light ammunition quickly across valleys. And if drones fly in terrain hugging mode - camouflage will be even more effective in valleys compared to plains.
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by Aditya_V »

mody wrote:Minimarg is very close to the LoC near Gurez. In fact I guess in one of the wars our forces had reached to minimarg but then retreated as they felt supply line or backup support might get stretched. Further up I think is Astore valley.
It 3KM from the LOC, BSF reached it in 1971 war but withdrew due to supply chain logistic pressures.
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by chola »

Pakis said to have started JF-17 block III production. They also introduced 14 dual-seat JF-17Bs.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BhittaniKhan ... 8508594177
Asfandyar Bhittani
@BhittaniKhannnn

JF-17 Block 3 has entered mass production, says ACM Mujahid Anwar Khan at the induction ceremony of 14 new JF-17B fighters into the PAF.
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by chola »

Interesting livery spotted at Kamra. It's actually a JF-17 for Nigeria. Significance is that the assembly for even exported JF-17s are in Pakistan not China. Possibly no assembly line in Cheen exists at all since the PLAAF never accepted it.
Image

Image
nam
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by nam »

chola wrote:Pakis said to have started JF-17 block III production. They also introduced 14 dual-seat JF-17Bs.
The level of nonsense PAF does just to get a PR brownie point. Which country manages to get a jet in to mass production within a year of 1st flight?

We hear the bs of PL15 being available on JF17. No picture or video of JF17 flying with PL15. There isn't a video of it firing SD10 :roll:
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by manjgu »

But there is a important lesson...how China can find export market for a sub standard product and we have still not indused Lca in numbers !!
chola
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by chola »

nam wrote:
chola wrote:Pakis said to have started JF-17 block III production. They also introduced 14 dual-seat JF-17Bs.
The level of nonsense PAF does just to get a PR brownie point. Which country manages to get a jet in to mass production within a year of 1st flight?

We hear the bs of PL15 being available on JF17. No picture or video of JF17 flying with PL15. There isn't a video of it firing SD10 :roll:

So the story is they have stopped Block II assembly this past year to build those 14 JF-17B two-seaters. Now that the B's are done they are building the Block III. Sounds like single line that can make only one variant at the time.

The differences between II and III might be minute and are incremental at the very least so the BS is not that they got the III being produced in a year's time but whether the III is all that different from the II. The Pakis are hyping themselves up like the III will be new supa improved variant. But there doesn't to be much external changes at all, not even an extra hardpoint. The engine is the same. The biggest change will be the radar.
manjgu wrote:But there is a important lesson...how China can find export market for a sub standard product and we have still not indused Lca in numbers !!
The PAF and Nigerian air force would have prefered Rafales if they could afford them.

The IAF can afford Rafales. That is the lesson.
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by Aditya_V »

chola wrote:Interesting livery spotted at Kamra. It's actually a JF-17 for Nigeria. Significance is that the assembly for even exported JF-17s are in Pakistan not China. Possibly no assembly line in Cheen exists at all since the PLAAF never accepted it]
Nope this is for Paki H&D. When Myanmar ordered JF17 during Rohingya issue, the JF 17 went straight from China to Myanmar.

The entire Capital machinery and parts come from China, there are no suppliers for JF 17 in Pakistan.
chola
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by chola »

Aditya_V wrote:
chola wrote:Interesting livery spotted at Kamra. It's actually a JF-17 for Nigeria. Significance is that the assembly for even exported JF-17s are in Pakistan not China. Possibly no assembly line in Cheen exists at all since the PLAAF never accepted it]
Nope this is for Paki H&D. When Myanmar ordered JF17 during Rohingya issue, the JF 17 went straight from China to Myanmar.

The entire Capital machinery and parts come from China, there are no suppliers for JF 17 in Pakistan.
Aditya ji, I had thought so too but according to this the Pakis were building the JF-17s for Burma (while the Burmese were getting rid of their fellow peacefuls):
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... ying-china
Myanmar signed for 16 JF-17 Block 2 versions worth approximately $560 million in July 2015. On Pakistani television last December, two were seen in the final stages of production at PAC’s Kamra factory.
The machinery and parts come from Cheen for sure. And the export variants might be tested in Cheen because of differeing avionics and weapons fit. But the assembly line looks to be in Pakiland onlee.
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by jamwal »

Image

I've seen these "hinges" just where canopy is attached to fuselage and wondered what they were.
Someone on Twitter got a close up shot of JF-17B

Image
This can't be true, right? JF-17 canopy opens likes this
Image
What made them use Hinges on JF-17B?
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by dhyana »

jamwal
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by jamwal »

Thanks. So these are hinges for real. I am just surprised to see 4 of them attached to outer body. Either the drag an stealth penalty is negligible or they just don't care.
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by yensoy »

Looks like side hinged canopy for dual seat and back hinged for single seat. Aerodynamically, I guess this is what you get at dollar store prices.
nam
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by nam »

Is there any photo of Block 3 flying? or BVR being fired by any of the previous versions?

The only Block 3 image I have seen is on the ground!

Paks claiming Block 3 is in production, yet no one know which radar it will have! There were tall claims of radar with side panel, air cooled yada yada.. but nobody knows which radar is actually flying.

If you are fitting in a new radar, you would atleast fire a BVR to test the integration. Nothing so far, yet claims of production :rotfl:

Then there is the PL15 claims. No image of it even flying on JF17, only photo-shops. Yet it is "operational" in PAF!

PAF desperately wants to show they have Rafale counter in production.
Last edited by nam on 31 Dec 2020 17:35, edited 1 time in total.
Manish_P
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by Manish_P »

jamwal wrote:..Either the drag an stealth penalty is negligible or they just don't care.
More than that would be the worry that they might come loose during maneuvering in-flight.. then again the pakis consider themselves as horse riding ghazis of arabian stock so..
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by jamwal »

Cross posting here:
jamwal wrote:Pakistani Army Aviation Corps. Not much to talk about. Most of aircraft are old & nearing retirement.
One interesting thing is number of units raised in 80s, probably financed by American dollars.

Image

Image

Image
jamwal wrote:Pakistan Army Aviation Corps
Image
Philip
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by Philip »

Gents,these "hinges" are actually dual purpose,ingenious Sino- Paki genie-ass! These are fixed micro canards apart from being canopy hinges. Why only on one side too? To give the JF (Joker- Fighter) assymetric aerodynamic qualities ,aka "djinn power", a secret tech. known only to the Pakis,who've passed it on to the Chins. Version 3,third attempt at success, is to have a new radar making it deadlier than the Rafale. We await with breathless anticipation news of version 3 crashes to validate its deadliness!

The deadly "Djinn and Chin " combo is according to the Puki press giving sleepness nights to the IAF ( can't control their laughter!) !
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by nam »

Spend some time on Pak fora to find out about Block 3 spec. The entire thing is filled with speculation.

No hard news on anything. Everything from new engine, radar, PL15, even CFT is just speculation! :roll:

Claims of KLJ radar, but only one image of that air cooled AESA.. No PL15 image, no SD10 firing image/video. Claimed engine RD93MA is still in testing in Russia!
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by chola »

Rafale. Rafale. RAFALE.

Desperation begets delusions:
https://www.geo.tv/latest/327350-better ... i-aircraft

Better than India’s Rafale: Pakistan starts production of advanced JF-17 Thunder Block III aircraft
Probably the only ones more entranced by the Rafale than the IAF is the PAF. lol
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by RaviB »

jamwal wrote:Pakistani Army Aviation Corps. Not much to talk about. Most of aircraft are old & nearing retirement.
One interesting thing is number of units raised in 80s, probably financed by American dollars.
I really like the name of the 599 EME: "optimists". Repairing aircraft with the glue of optimism :lol:
nam
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by nam »

I figured out that our western neighbor, including the regular people are update to date on Indian news. Either their news media constantly watches our news or they directly watch some.

I get to interact with some regular Pak fellas out of India and was surprised how Rafale is a major point of discussion :roll:
It is a major event for them! Attempts to convince me how both India & Pak needs to spend money on farming, than on such fighters..

Looks like F16 & JF17 are the only thing standing between India taking over Pak..

Need to get a sqd of F35 inducted, just to see the hungama in Pak.
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by Vips »

Pigs will always be Pigs: Pak Army Found Converting Un Mission Employees To Islam In Congo

Lisa
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by Lisa »

jamwal wrote:Thanks. So these are hinges for real. I am just surprised to see 4 of them attached to outer body. Either the drag an stealth penalty is negligible or they just don't care.
This is nothing, on the other side there is a Yale lock.
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by anupmisra »

Lisa wrote:
jamwal wrote:Thanks. So these are hinges for real. I am just surprised to see 4 of them attached to outer body. Either the drag an stealth penalty is negligible or they just don't care.
This is nothing, on the other side there is a Yale lock.

Yale, Shmale!! Kufr!! It's called smart lockdown - Ask Im the Dim. Often referred to as Al La Tala. Apologies in advance for OT.

Image
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by Anoop »

jamwal wrote:Thanks. So these are hinges for real. I am just surprised to see 4 of them attached to outer body. Either the drag an stealth penalty is negligible or they just don't care.
What about during ejection? Seems like a suboptimal arrangement.
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by sajaym »

Anoop wrote:What about during ejection? Seems like a suboptimal arrangement.
Anoop, my understanding is that during an ejection the canopy will be jettisoned first by explosive charges - quite forcefully! So door-type hinges, yale lock etc etc doesn't make a difference.

Image
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by Nihat »

True that they won't make a significant difference in ejection but these component uses also reinforce what we already knew about the substandard manufacturing of these jets. They are likely to have a very low availability rate with extremely high maintenance requirements.

The more pakis invest in these, the better for us. They are not worth the soil on which they are operating.
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by rajsunder »

jamwal wrote:Image

I've seen these "hinges" just where canopy is attached to fuselage and wondered what they were.
Someone on Twitter got a close up shot of JF-17B

Image
This can't be true, right? JF-17 canopy opens likes this
even the number of hinges are not the same across the fleet, one can see in the above images that some of them have 3 and some 5 hinges.
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by Anujan »

jamwal wrote: I've seen these "hinges" just where canopy is attached to fuselage and wondered what they were.
Someone on Twitter got a close up shot of JF-17B


This can't be true, right? JF-17 canopy opens likes this
What made them use Hinges on JF-17B?
Rafale canopy also opens to the side

(pictures of Rafale-M)

Image
Image

Seems to have some kind of internal mechanism for the hinge and a hydraulic assist for the pilot to open/close the canopy with very little effort.
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by nvishal »

Current Pakistani fighter jet inventory

F16 - 75
Jf17 - 123
Mirage 5 - 90
Mirage 3 - 69
J7 - 135

The only capable fighter jet in the above list for air superiority role is the f16. The indian tejas is an old design and a weak aircraft. The jf17 is worst than the tejas and god knows why the Pak's agreed to have it. Maybe it was better than nothing.

The Chinese seem to make substandard fighter jets. I wonder what other chinese jets will make it into the pak military.
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by Vips »

J7 is literally flying junk and Mirage 3 and Mirage 5 are 40 plus year old frames!!!! :rotfl:
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by manjgu »

1) in the age of BVR how much do a/c's kinematics contribute to overall success vis a vis its electronic gear, missiles?? 2) how old are the F16's
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by jamwal »

Anujan wrote:
jamwal wrote: I've seen these "hinges" just where canopy is attached to fuselage and wondered what they were.
Someone on Twitter got a close up shot of JF-17B


This can't be true, right? JF-17 canopy opens likes this
What made them use Hinges on JF-17B?
Rafale canopy also opens to the side

(pictures of Rafale-M)

Seems to have some kind of internal mechanism for the hinge and a hydraulic assist for the pilot to open/close the canopy with very little effort.
I am curious about differences between regular JF-17 and JF-17B. What made them use a different system in B and what made them keep hinges outside.
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by Aditya_V »

JF17B is a twin seater so it might have been a bit long to keep a vertical opening canopy. So they have tried Tejas and Rafale type side opening. How does the Tejas manage it?
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by nam »

So after some search looks like Block 3 is apparently going to have a Air cooled version of KLJ7A! This means the platform is power deficient to even host a liquid cooled AESA.

It will have poor MTBF due to being air cooled, so larger number of TRM(1000) is been used. The sensitivity will degrade at longer range, as long range scanning will involve using more power, results in more heat, degrading sensitivity.

And the jokers were claiming it is better than Rafale! :rotfl:
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by Aditya_V »

There has been no proper videos of weapons tests other than the Pl-5, the aircraft has not completed a vertical loop in a public display. It didnt launch any smart A2G ordinance or BVR A2A on 27-Feb-19 when its turn to put its hand up.

There seems more propaganda than capability to the JF-17. Its the SAAB AEW and F16 fleet which is the main danger from the PAF.
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by jamwal »

Is there any ebook available of At The Forward Edge of Battle by Major General Syed Ali Hamid?
nam
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by nam »

Aditya_V wrote:There has been no proper videos of weapons tests other than the Pl-5, the aircraft has not completed a vertical loop in a public display. It didnt launch any smart A2G ordinance or BVR A2A on 27-Feb-19 when its turn to put its hand up.

There seems more propaganda than capability to the JF-17. Its the SAAB AEW and F16 fleet which is the main danger from the PAF.
Is there a video of JF17 launching PL15 launch? The only video I know of is JF17 launching PL10.
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Post by Aditya_V »

I said Pl-5 not PL-15- Pl-5 is a CCM with less than 10% the claimed range of PL-5 in the best circumstances- it is a clone of Russian Nato designated AA-8 missile, regarding SD-10 there is no video of launch from the Aircraft, their is only one of some missile hitting an aerial target and PAF brass going AOA, no separation/ carriage test or live firing from Aircraft is available
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