Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion

nam · Post by **nam** » 24 Mar 2019 11:56

chola wrote: Won't link here but the PAF is going the extra mile claiming a MKI for the JF-17. They are passing around a patch commemorating the two "kills." You can look it up on twitter if you want. Supposedly the JF-17 pilots and ground crews are all wearing this.

There are pictures of PAF and Turkish pilots wearing this patch too so they've been spreading propaganda hot and heavy to all their ummah buddies on Paki day.

It is their new god without doubt. But they are still afraid to let it be seen and humiliated at the same airshow with the Tejas.

How will it kill Su30, when it doesn't have a BVR to fire? We should ask people for a video of JF17 firing a BVR in test..

Zynda · Post by **Zynda** » 24 Mar 2019 12:20

Pakis are still claiming that JF-17 shot Abhi's MiG-21. There are news articles, of course from Paki publications, which state that interest in JF-17 has shot up since it downed IAF MiG-21. Of course, they fail to mention that this is the 2nd time, PAF & Bandar has failed to show up to an airshow where Tejas was scheduled to fly as well. Even for LIMA, PAkis are providing the same excuse as Bahrain 2016 i.e. PM of Malaysia is in Paki and we will demonstrate the JF-17 to him privately.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 24 Mar 2019 13:33

National Day Parade , Chini J-10 Aerobatics team participated starts at 2:50:55

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 24 Mar 2019 15:51

Austin wrote:JF-17 flying display today

An JF-17 with no external stores takes from 00:25 to 00:50 to complete a horizontal circle, i.e 25 secs- Just Brilliant I tell you.

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 24 Mar 2019 16:27

Nikhil T wrote:Also, the rhetoric and the war mongering from the announcers is ridiculous, even by TSP standards. They’re frequently referencing “recent conflict”. How I wish we had downed their F16 over our territory. They need another lesson.

In order to down an F16 over our territory, they need to ingress their F16 deep enough into our territory to have enough time for an engagement, missile launch and hit. Since they are in the shoot and scoot business and have shown little interest in venturing into India (which I would mark as success), it's not feasible to shoot one over our territory. They are not in the hot pursuit business either.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 25 Mar 2019 06:13

Be forewarned, this video will likely be GRUESOME to some. Do not watch if you are queasy or have young children next to you.

https://twitter.com/Jahangir_Baloc/stat ... 7886088197 ---> Baloch Raji Ajui Sangar (BRAS) published the video of the attack against Pakistan army where half dozen Pakistani military personnel were killed. Such attacks daily take place in Balochistan, but Pakistan always hides them, they don't even honour their dead soldiers publicly.

Anoop · Post by **Anoop** » 25 Mar 2019 06:34

Watching the video above, I was struck by how much ascendency the Baloch freedom fighters have over the Pak Army. Just imagine that they have so much ground that they can film the removal of weapons from dead soldiers. Such a sight would be unheard of in J&K or the NE. Even if our soldiers died, their bodies and weapons would be protected by their comrades. I am not counting the rare instances of ambushes by Pak BAT, that have caused deaths and dismemberment. But look at the terrain in that video; this was a straight fitefight (no IED, judging by the intact bodies) in open terrain. And such force disparity that the Pak soldiers were left at the mercy of the freedom fighters. Truly the situation in Baluchistan is much worse than the Pakistani government cares to admit.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 25 Mar 2019 07:58

Nikhil T wrote:Also, the rhetoric and the war mongering from the announcers is ridiculous, even by TSP standards. They’re frequently referencing “recent conflict”. How I wish we had downed their F16 over our territory. They need another lesson.

It might be irritating but lets hope the Pakis get more and more delusional, imagine a rockie pilot after completing his training and finding out when he gets into simulator and flying the JF-17. From being Rafale Su 30 killer to what it can actually do fire Pl-5 missiles and dumb bombs. That has got to be a devastating moment. Like Kargil Pakis will do something where the PAf will get exposed.

chola · Post by **chola** » 25 Mar 2019 08:25

nam wrote: How will it kill Su30, when it doesn't have a BVR to fire? We should ask people for a video of JF17 firing a BVR in test..

We've asked for ages. Nothing but take their word for it about the SD-10.

But it sounds like they have little input or knowledge of the Blunder anyways. Note the happy spin on what should be termed a slap in the face from their tallest deepest fliends.
https://twitter.com/DefencedotPak/statu ... 4286338048

Pakistan Defence
@DefencedotPak
A freshly built JF-17B (Dual Seat) can be seen in MAF colours.
In a surprise, it appears that Myanmar Air Force is due to receive JF-17B prior to #PAF. JF-17 Thunder is securing its market in steady mode. More orders on card.

Surprised?! Aren't you making the plucking thing?! Pakis. lol

Sanju · Post by **Sanju** » 25 Mar 2019 08:53

The way the English speaking female announcer was speaking was quite out of place. It would have been more suitable for phone s*x.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 25 Mar 2019 09:51

Twin Fighter JF-17B for Myanmar

On Chinese web resources, a snapshot of the first JF-17B two-seat fighter built for the Myanmar Air Force, passing, as you can see, flight tests at the enterprise of the Chinese aircraft manufacturer Chengdu Aircraft Industries Company (Group) (CAC, part of the Chinese state corporation AVIC) in Chengdu, Apparently, this aircraft with the Myanmar's tail number "1707", is the first serial two-seater JF-17B in general, and Myanmar will become the first recipient of the "Sparky" based on the JF-17 (in Pakistan, the prototype of the "Sparky" JF-17B, which made the first flight to End in April 2017, it is still in the testing phase).

Recall that earlier in the fall of 2018, Myanmar received six single-seat JF-17M modification fighters (export version of the JF-17 Block 2 aircraft) under the first contract concluded by Myanmar with Pakistan in March 2015, the cost of the contract was, as it was stated, 129 million euros . Single JF-17M have Myanmar airborne numbers from "1701" to "1706", the ceremony of entering the first four of them into the Air Force of Myanmar took place in Maithila (near Mandalay) on December 15, 2018. Myanmar thus became the first foreign download and the recipient of the JF-17 light fighter (FC-1) Thunder of a joint Chinese-Pakistani production.

The total number of Myanmar-ordered JF-17 planes in single and double seaters is unknown, but, according to several reports, is 16 units. It was also reported that the Myanmar side was conducting preliminary negotiations on the partial localization of the assembly of these aircraft in Myanmar.

By initial agreement, JF-17 aircraft for Myanmar were to be assembled in Pakistan at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) aircraft company in Kamra. However, the implementation of the contract was delayed due to tensions between Pakistan and Myanmar due to the persecution of the Rohingya Muslim minority in Myanmar. Therefore, the lead contractor for the implementation of the contract for the supply of JF-17 fighter jets to Myanmar was the Chinese CAC in Chengdu, which assembles Myanmar airplanes, and the Pakistani PAC produces for the Myanmar airplanes only airframe designs on a contract basis. Like all JF-17, Myanmar fighters are equipped with Russian-made RD-93 engines. First produced in Myanmar single-seat fighter JF-17M made first flight to Chengdu in June 2017.

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3582318.html

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 25 Mar 2019 10:32

Basically confirms that apart from a little bit of Metal cutting of Metal supplied by China is done at PAC Kamra, all spare parts are manufactured in China. Hell the SU-30, Mig 27 , Mig 21 Jaguar have even more Indian content than the Pakis can dream off in the JF-17. Hell I would we do more work in the upgraded M-2000 and Mig 29 Upg at BRD than what PAC Kamra does on JF-17's.

The Chinese take the JF-17, JH-7 seriously since it along with the J-20 are the true Chinese IP designs, J-15, J-16 are all Russian airplanes with some Chinese TOT production, similarly J-10 is heavy Isreali western input inspite of having a Russian engine.

dhyana · Post by **dhyana** » 25 Mar 2019 11:10

Will Pakistan focus on force multipliers? (Part-1)

Pakistan’s Force Multipliers (Part 2): Precision-guided bombs

Pakistan’s Force Multipliers (Part 3): Cruise Missiles & Sub-Munitions

Apologies if posted before. Some articles on PGM's and stand-off weapons. Including info on their beloved H2/H4. Lots of claims made re: TERCOM, INS, etc. Dunno if this a case of 10 TFTA claims = 1 SDRE fact?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 25 Mar 2019 11:17

Or the South Africans have pulled wool over the PAF eyes with some commissions disbursed, this fact hit home on 27 Feb 19.

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 25 Mar 2019 14:20

Any reason why China does not sell J10s to China so that they can repaint them as F10s

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 25 Mar 2019 16:05

Sridhar K wrote:Any reason why China does not sell J10s to China so that they can repaint them as F10s

J-10 is the poor man's F-16. But pakis already have the real F-16 courtesy meherbaani of US. So they have no use for the inferior J-10.

MeshaVishwas · Post by **MeshaVishwas** » 26 Mar 2019 05:52

PAF plane skids off runway during landing
https://arynews.tv/en/paf-skids-off-runway-landing/amp/

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Mar 2019 06:50

As i had predicted for the multan incident.
No gang war

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 26 Mar 2019 10:39

If it was just a minor skid, there would no need to close airspace and spread false news of gang war and close roads leading to the airport, the friendly fire theory is more probable.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Mar 2019 11:04

airspace was closed as the runway was blocked for that mass of emergency vehicles with flashing lights in the video.

the gang war and roads closed may have to save H&D of fizaya who are not allowed to crash or lose by the psyche of the qaum. passengers departing by the crash site on civilian planes may have spread twitter videos leading to loss of face. roads leading to airport closed to prevent spotters videographing it over walls and through cracks in the woodwork.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Mar 2019 11:14

a good pic of meeting between coas and sarkari pashtun tribal leaders dating to 2016

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyBrSV-XgAQ1P3T.jpg

these leaders seem to run across a spectrum from kindly grandpas to younger mean looking masood azhar types.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 26 Mar 2019 12:01

Noob question but how are assembled planes delivered to the buying country ?

Are they flown all the way sometimes flying over hostile territory or put into cargo container or reassembled at the destination or is there any other way to deliver them ?
Can there be a case of hostile take over of the shipment by 'non-state' actors ?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 26 Mar 2019 14:16

I think some are transported in ships like out Chinooks and some by An-124 type aircraft and assembled on site.

Hari Nair · Post by **Hari Nair** » 26 Mar 2019 14:25

Some 'news' just coming in social media groups -
Tweet of Lt Gen Vinod Bhatia -
"Something major amiss in Multan/ Pakistan. Complete blackout, blasts heared, initial reports indicate PAF shot down two own JF-17...."
Any news from any of the Gurus, here?

chola · Post by **chola** » 26 Mar 2019 14:32

^^^ LOL

https://mobile.twitter.com/bababanaras/ ... 3850983424

@bababanaras
From credible source

Big update from #Multan Incident

Set back for Pakistan Army . Faulty #MadeInChina air defence system shot down PAF own JF-17 Thunder fighter jet in Multan.

Covering operation is continue by Pak authorities.

gaurav.p · Post by **gaurav.p** » 26 Mar 2019 14:40

Happened early hours yesterday. NOTAM over multan lasted for ~10hrs.
Probably crashlanding/fire to some ac. The censor has stopped any flow of info for the sake of H&D.

- some bakis say gang war at multan airports

- some jingos say IFF of chinese AD didnt work and shot a bandar

The baki script is working perfectly denial -> drama -> deception.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 29 Mar 2019 20:32

Pakistan | Russian Occupation of Afghanistan | China

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saqMoSNlmOs

A very dated but a very good video on how Pakistan used US/UK on one side and China on other.

When the Soviet Invaded Afghanistan , Pakistan as we know was on the frontline.

Zia Ul Haq had a 2 prone strategy , Tell the West SU will invade Pakistan and Gwadar is just 350 miles from where Soviets are now and eventually after Gwadar SU will reach Straits of Hormuz and this worked well and Arms and Money flew to Pakistan.

Tell the Chinese your enemy is in Afganistan and lets work together to defeat and took massive arms from China , Was not aware that China was supplying Pakistan since end of Vietnam war.

ZIa says in that video that China is inferior in technology but they gave them massive in Numbers while the West gave them technology.

Seems like Afghanistan has been a blessing for Pakistan in the 80s and even today and curse to any one who invade it , SU in 80's and US now.

John · Post by **John** » 29 Mar 2019 20:40

Sridhar K wrote:Any reason why China does not sell J10s to China so that they can repaint them as F10s

Pakistan is known to turn around and share Chinese tech to highest bidder ( western intel). Even Israel has gotten its hands on few Chinese weapons that Iran has (Ashm, CM) courtesy of Pakistan facilitated thru middle men.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 29 Mar 2019 20:41

Austin sir dont think it has been a blessing either. It has been their falling. They may have had the upper hand till 90s. The doles, did not make them invest in developing tech. The inflection point was in mid to late 90s around liberalization. It happened before, but the results fructified only in late 90s. Today all we see and tomorrow all we see are are due to the afghan war

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 29 Mar 2019 21:03

ArjunPandit wrote:Austin sir dont think it has been a blessing either. It has been their falling. They may have had the upper hand till 90s. The doles, did not make them invest in developing tech. The inflection point was in mid to late 90s around liberalization. It happened before, but the results fructified only in late 90s. Today all we see and tomorrow all we see are are due to the afghan war

No Sir for me please just a ordinary poster as any one on this board

The doles were not meant to invest in developing tech they were used by Pakistan to quickly boost up weapons purchase to match up to Indias capability , Not sure if you are aware during 80's India did massive purchase of weapons from West and SU.

Afghanistan helped pakistan to make up huge quantity and even quality purchase all without paying a single penny , Just smartly working on the fears of US and China they achieved this plus quietly they build their entire nuclear program in 80's and even cold tested the device by mid 80

Now it appears Afghanistan will be again handed over to its proxy Taliban ........20 years since 2001 and we are back to square one , its strategic depth versus India.

THe down side is Pakistan is very radicalized due to Afghan war but that is the effect even in many Sunni Ummah country in varying degree.

YashG · Post by **YashG** » 30 Mar 2019 22:30

ISPR has released this game where you get to play missions with Pakistani forces and intelligence arm.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tgr-the ... 91332?mt=8

Its a good marketing trick.

Zynda · Post by **Zynda** » 31 Mar 2019 00:06

I will give it to Pak wrt marketing & perception management. Having said that I don't want neither our Govt nor the armed forces resort to lies, deception etc. just to preserve H&D. I am sure there are ways in which to have better perception management without resorting to the above.

YashG · Post by **YashG** » 31 Mar 2019 00:14

Zynda wrote:I will give it to Pak wrt marketing & perception management. Having said that I don't want neither our Govt nor the armed forces resort to lies, deception etc. just to preserve H&D. I am sure there are ways in which to have better perception management without resorting to the above.

Pak forces invest more in perception management because they cant do the real thing. So they manage perception. Though i'm not writing away marketing - probably its one pillar of war without fighting one.

tandav · Post by **tandav** » 31 Mar 2019 07:20

Aditya_V wrote:
Austin wrote:JF-17 flying display today

An JF-17 with no external stores takes from 00:25 to 00:50 to complete a horizontal circle, i.e 25 secs- Just Brilliant I tell you.

Interestingly here the RD93 engine is smoke free

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 31 Mar 2019 15:07

so is the newer RD-33 at certain regimes. it still smokes at certain conditions.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 31 Mar 2019 15:22

recently i saw a smoky JSF in air show practice and there are plenty of videos with smoking from GE404/414.

MeshaVishwas · Post by **MeshaVishwas** » 01 Apr 2019 12:12

Lone Pak submarine on patrol as 4 undergo repair
https://m.hindustantimes.com/india-news ... I_amp.html

- Shishir Gupta and Rahul Singh

“We have inputs that indicate that only one Pakistan Navy submarine is partially operational. And this is the reason why they were frantically seeking help of the Chinese Navy to secure their maritime interests post-Pulwama,”

MeshaVishwas · Post by **MeshaVishwas** » 04 Apr 2019 10:21

COAS Bajwa approves promotion of 40 army officers
https://arynews.tv/en/pakistan-army-bri ... tions/amp/

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 04 Apr 2019 22:16

Basically, Pakistan is now at, where we were somewhere around mid to late 1980s, in terms of setting up the infrastructure and agencies to design and develop a fighter jet and its systems. They'll look to sign JVs with Chinese, Ukranian and Turkish institutes, companies and public sector firms like CAC and TAI. And will basically try to take up work packages that come out of those JVs. Its the next logical step from having done the screw-drivergiri on the JF-17 Bandar.

Pakistan outlines FGFA industrial aims

The Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) has outlined ambitious plans to support its development of a fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) - otherwise known in Pakistan as Project AZM.

The PAC enterprise, which is owned and run by the Pakistan Air Force (PAF), has established a new office - the Aviation Research, Indigenization & Development (AvRID) unit - to lead the FGFA programme, it confirmed.

The development programme is supported through Pakistan's development of a new aerospace complex - named 'Aviation City' - that was launched in 2017 to support Project AZM and other national military aerospace requirements.

"The office of DG [Director General] AvRID has been established to transform into reality the [PAF's] air staff vision… with the long-term goal of developing our own fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA)," PAC said on its website.

"[The] development of [the] FGFA would be a major national programme that would entail a massive amount of work, not all of which may possibly be carried out within PAC or even within Pakistan.

"Such large-scale development requires synergetic efforts from a number of industrial (public and private) and academic organisations to fulfill the enormous task," it added.

In order to "manage an engineering development programme of this magnitude", effective technical, engineering, and project management processes need to be established, PAC said.

PAC also outlined several specialist project teams that it will establish in collaboration with other national agencies as part of the Aviation City initiative.

These include an engineering management and support office, an Aviation Design Institute, a Mission Electronics Design Institute, an Aero Structures Design Institute, an Advanced Technologies Centre, and a Flight Test Centre.

PAC states that AvRID will collaborate with and leverage the capabilities of these various Aviation City agencies in undertaking Project AZM. "This [will] put together components of industry and academia to build a high-end research centre to enhance indigenisation capability.

gaurav.p · Post by **gaurav.p** » 04 Apr 2019 23:10

One positive thing wrt to pak MIC. They operate on a model directly under/with the military, the wooing done by Indian scientists for IAF to accept tejas is not applicable to them. The sticker of lizard along with bakis propelled the case of acceptability of bandar in PAF + they had no other way to go. They already have product-market fit ie certain orders without tweaking and conditions.

With current geopolitics, the major collaborators I can see is turkey (they just had the tejas moment during the times of op shakti '98), lizard supporting. Turkey has a strong manufacturing base. They have learnt quickly from collaborations. The MALE UAVs are already productionized. Strong sub-industries making LRUs exist wrt to optics, electronics, composites (tejas didn't have this, had to create it with lot of struggle and continuing). Lizard with their national agenda of reverse engineering and espionage has taken a somewhat leap, will obviously aid the iron slave brother. "Indigenous" creation + execution is fiction, spelt out for the sake of H&D. Rather would say that it is a well timed lifafa from janes to woo turkey to collaborate to make a islamic FGFA (in compliance with sharia laws

)

As for India, it is a clarion call that AMCA is the only way left. With the S400s, the door to F35 is almost shut. The only other arm-twisting by Su57 is possible. But then the ruski fanboys post MMRCA X.0 are less. The market for FGFA is already crowded out. SoKo, Turkey, Bakis, India, Ruski, US, Japan,Tempost.