Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Austin » 30 Oct 2017 21:19

JF 17 thunder aircraft of Pakistan


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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 30 Oct 2017 22:32

Nice video for Bollywood, good music but no ordinance or missile fired or a full vertical loop, or the much famed Ariel refuelling or glass cockpit

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Austin » 31 Oct 2017 21:57

Seems it is a CATIC promotional video , Full Video here


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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya G » 03 Nov 2017 01:44

PN on a roll ....

Image

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 03 Nov 2017 12:13

Thats a lot but I suspect it will be 2030 when some of them especially the Subs get inducted. BTW I dont think the Ada class with Turkey has been ordered and will require extensive approval from Khan which will take time and negotiations and hard cash. Pakistan has signed only for a letter of Intent, the deal funding Finance negotiation etc will take some time. Plus Turkey capacity to produce will also take time.
The Cheeni Subs are more likely
Hope the IN gets its act together by 2025

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Austin » 04 Nov 2017 14:49

What ever happend to the Yuan class they were planning to buy that would be the key threat to IN in the next decade their submarine fleet.

The rest of the fleet wont stand much chance against a determined IN assault.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Austin » 04 Nov 2017 14:50

Pakistan Says It's Ready to Use Nuclear Weapons—Should India Worry?

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-bu ... ndia-23034

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 04 Nov 2017 19:56

There is no doubt about if India lets Pakis as is, they will use them one day

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Philip » 04 Nov 2017 19:57

The PN is totally outclassed by the IN.In actual terms it must be seen as a unit of the huge PLAN.,it's "Arabian Sea flotilla".The unanswered Q is what will the PLAN permanently station at Gwadar? The PLAN will also transfer surface vessels as and when the PN requires them.Integration of the PN and PLAN a certainty.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Austin » 13 Nov 2017 15:46

JF-17 at Dubai Airshow ( starts at 4:15 )


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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 13 Nov 2017 16:38

A couple of things, it takes about 23 seccs from 5:02 to 5:25 for the JF 17 to complete a horizontal loop and the Aircraft is not able to complete a vertical loop, at the Apex the Pilot is forced to turn the aircraft and fly in the other direction

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Austin » 13 Nov 2017 16:57

In old videos of JF-17 display it would not even complete Horizontal loop this is the first video I saw where it does.

On Vertical Loop from what I can see it does go vertical and does a full inverted U but it does not drop down vertical but as soon it does inveted U it rolls and changes direction

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 13 Nov 2017 18:02

Yes there seems to be a limitation in its maneuverability which I suspect is from its Mig 21 Lineage.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 13 Nov 2017 18:11

The only missile Firing of JF-17 is the PL-5 II missile. Now the PL-5E II a constantly ugraded variant of 1965-71 K-13 (AA2 Atoll) missile we used, in the video the missile hits the target within 3 seconds and while the plane is in level flight, indicating it does not much range and does not have too much off bore sight capability. The more you scrutinize the JF-17 one relizes that some of Paki and Cheeni propaganda on it is just that - propaganda.

On any serious Chinese fighter they use the Python 3(PL 8 ,missile) or the r-73 missile.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby shiv » 13 Nov 2017 18:25

Austin wrote:In old videos of JF-17 display it would not even complete Horizontal loop this is the first video I saw where it does.

On Vertical Loop from what I can see it does go vertical and does a full inverted U but it does not drop down vertical but as soon it does inveted U it rolls and changes direction

I have never figured out why this is so.

Once again I watched this video - pausing and rewinding.

The first "loop" is very interesting. I can't say whether it is good or negative. The plane goes nose up and just before it reaches top of loop the zoom is switched from near to distant. But as the plane hits top of loop it actually loses altitude - ie it falls upside down just as the pilot (skilfully?) pulls the nose up to point the plane down. then it descends nose down and once again before the plane completes the last quarter of the loop it is rolled away. It appears to me that the plane is very near stall at the top of the loop, but that said I must say that it behaves very well and pulls out of that smartly.

The second loop is less interesting, but again the last 1/4 loop is avoided and the plane rolls away.

Never seen this with any other aircraft. Why?

That aside the gora aadmi commentary is patronizing and supercilious..Pakis will lap it up nevertheless

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 16 Nov 2017 13:25

Does anyone know what are the Type of PAF aircraft parked at Peshawar airport at 3°59'52.1"N 71°30'26.5"E
(decimal 33.997814, 71.507364), there are 3 more fighter s in the open on the east side of the main runway.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby nachiket » 17 Nov 2017 02:46

Aditya_V wrote:Does anyone know what are the Type of PAF aircraft parked at Peshawar airport at 3°59'52.1"N 71°30'26.5"E
(decimal 33.997814, 71.507364), there are 3 more fighter s in the open on the east side of the main runway.

Q-5 Fantan I think.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 17 Nov 2017 10:38

Werent the F-6's and Q-5's retired?

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Manish_P » 17 Nov 2017 10:53

Wing profile and stubby nose make it look more like F86 sabre or Mig 19

My mistake. Was looking at the wrong co-ordinates. The ones at the co-ordinates do indeed look like the Fantans

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 18 Nov 2017 11:56

As usual Many years after the Atlantique incident, the Paki's version of events that the Atlantique was on a routine training mission is belivable only if you belive the world is flat.

https://airpowerstudies.wordpress.com/2010/08/24/a-new-twist-in-the-%E2%80%98atlantique-incident%E2%80%99/

In 1993, Pakistan’s Atlantiques were outfitted with a piece of equipment known as a DR-3000A Electronic Support Measure. The DR-3000A was a product made by Thomson-CSF (now Thales) in France and designed to collect information regarding radar. Principally it listens for radar operating in the eight-to-twelve gigahertz frequency range, known as the X-band, which is popularly used for naval surveillance, air surveillance and fighter surveillance radar. By using the DR-3000A it would be possible to gather information regarding the characteristics and behavior of any radar operating across these frequencies, affording important electronic intelligence, especially if somebody was keen to learn how to use electronic warfare to jam these radar.

Although nobody is claiming that Pakistan’s Atlantique was performing a Signals Intelligence mission on the day it was shot down, the presence of an aircraft with a SIGINT capability near such a sensitive area certainly does raise some interesting questions.


Looks Like post Kargil, Pakis were trying something in the Rann of Kutch which got nixed.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Austin » 18 Nov 2017 12:14

They were shot in anger by IAF because the Paki Mil Jihadi shot down Mig-21 and brutally killed the pilot iirc shot in the back when he ejected and landed.

These Atlantiques were in Indian territory and on some other day they would have let them go after warning or escorting them out but IAF decided to teach them a lesson to remember which they did , iirc IAF did tell the PN Atlantique to land at nearest IAF base but they refused and begin to fly back to their territory.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 18 Nov 2017 12:59

They were also arrogant, they should have landed in an Indian airfield.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby nam » 19 Nov 2017 04:21

As a jingo would checked out LCA performance on YouTube to compare with that of chini jet.

Can clearly see how LCA flight is smoother due to its fbw. Ability to switch direction effortlessly, thrust in vertical climbs etc, we have done a good job.

LCA was always fabulous in vertical climb. Still remember watching it do vertical climb in 2008 over hal airport!

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 20 Nov 2017 15:39

First of all its ok to compare, but in terms of indigenous project JF-17 is a Chinese project with no part made in Pakistan, looking at Paki propaganda videos of PAC Kamra, for 16 aircraft production there are no partial wings etc being produced, its all fully built fuselage, wings etc. And there no tyres, pipes - nothing is produced by Pakistani industry.

What is being done in Pakistan is even less than what HAL did for Mig 21 FL in the 70's,

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Rakesh » 08 Dec 2017 00:47

This is what the promise of 72 does to you...

Pakistan air force chief order: Shoot down US drones :lol:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/wor ... 967426.cms

Pakistan Air Force (PAF) chief Sohail Aman said here on Thursday that he has ordered his force to shoot down any drones, including those of the US, if they violate the country's airspace. The announcement was made public about two weeks after a US drone strike targeted a militant compound in Pakistan's tribal region near the Afghan border, killing three militants. Pakistan had always condemned drone strikes on its soil but had never said they would shoot down the unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs). "We will not allow anyone to violate our airspace. I have ordered PAF to shoot down drones, including those of the US, if they enter our airspace, violating the country's sovereignty and territorial integrity," Air Chief Marshal Sohail Aman told an audience in Islamabad.

If he meant that US missile strikes on militant positions were a violation of Pakistan's sovereignty, then these violations have been occurring since 2004. The CIA was responsible for all US drone strikes in Pakistan+ until November 30, 2017. After every drone strike, the Pakistan foreign office issues a condemnatory statement claiming that it will not allow such strikes on its territory. Hundreds of civilians, according to media reports, including women and children, as well as many senior members of terrorist groups have perished in these attacks. The status of many more people remains unknown.

Aman added that the most unfortunate tragedy in the PAF's history was the attack on Kamra airbase+ . In August 2012, militants armed with rocket-propelled grenades and automatic weapons carried out a brazen attack under cover of darkness on the PAF's Minhas airbase at Kamra. The PAF chief also told the gathering that in the attack on Kamra airbase, terrorists managed to completely destroy one PAF Saab plane and inflict considerable damage on another. "After the attack on Kamra airbase not only did we set out to make the PAF better and stronger, but were also determined to guide the nations towards self-sufficiency. Now, Pakistan will make its own fighter jets." "Even Indian defence officials attest to our successes on the battlefield," Aman claimed and alleged that India was behind the attack on Kamra airbase. "What do terrorists want from PAF planes?" he asked.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Sid » 08 Dec 2017 05:07

IMHO these airbase attacks in Porkyland and Afghanistan were linked, and most probably tit-for-tat events between two best frnds. Or both had a single frnenamy.

1> PNS Mehran attack -Mar 2011
2> Kamra Airbase attack - Aug 2012
3> Camp Bastion Attack - Sep 2012

After this attacks, on respective infrastructures, things went down in scale and audacity.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Kartik » 09 Dec 2017 04:21

Fiscal constraints hits Pakistani's production of Al-Khalid tanks

Pakistan’s land systems specialist Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT) is producing Al-Khalid-I main battle tanks (MBTs) at a rate far below capacity due to budgetary constraints, the Pakistan Senate’s Standing Committee on Defence Production was told on 30 November.

In a committee hearing, the details of which were published on the Pakistan Senate website, senior HIT officials said the state-owned enterprise is producing 18 Al-Khalid-I MBTs per year on average despite having capacity to build 50.


Officials said the lower output was due to budgetary constraints, although they did not elaborate.

HIT officials added that the company has also started preparation to develop and produce the next-generation Al-Khalid-II MBT.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Austin » 10 Dec 2017 16:55

Pakistani Air Force ordered to shoot down US drones that violate airspace


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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby chola » 11 Dec 2017 13:00

Just Pakis overusing bhang?

TFTA in space with two years!

http://www.valuewalk.com/2017/12/pakistani-astronauts-will-be-in-space-within-two-years/

And Paki 5th gen is coming! and they are thumbing nose at J-31 with an “original” design (like the JF-17 Blunder.)

https://quwa.org/2017/12/07/pakistan-collaborating-with-china-on-next-gen-fighter/
PAC to continue its ties with Chengdu Aerospace Corporation (CAC) and to co-develop another FGF design. While this would come later than the FC-31, the PAF could steer it as a long-term solution for replacing the JF-17 from the 2030s (the oldest JF-17s will be 20 years of age by then) and organically build design, research and development (R&D) capacities with China’s support. The PAF’s decision to establish AvDI – an entity specializing in aerospace design and development work – indicates a willingness to embrace an original design program instead of acquiring the FC-31 off-the-shelf.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Kartik » 13 Dec 2017 04:28

Second prototype of JF-17B trainer now flying in China, where it is being developed. The whole "Pakistani" component of the program basically relates to the program management part, which the PAF does and then PAC Kamra gets technology for building some parts of the jet while the rest is imported.

Image

Second JF-17B prototype now flying
Photos have emerged of the second prototype of the JF-17 Thunder’s twin-seat variant – designated JF-17B – undergoing flight tests in China.

Although the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) was comfortable training JF-17 aircrews using simulators, potential third-party customers had requested a twin-seat variant for training and evaluation purposes. Production of the first JF-17B prototype began in April 2016, with the aircraft conducting its first flight a year later.

Three JF-17B prototypes are under production, two of which will join the PAF.

Notes & Comments:

In addition to a tandem seat, the JF-17B incorporates several design changes to its single-seat counterpart. These include a modified vertical stabilizer, dorsal spine (potentially for fuel to compensate for the space lost from the additional seat), enlarged nose and three-axis fly-by-wire (FBW) flight control system.

An alleged brochure from the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) claims that the JF-17B also has a longer wingspan (by 0.5 m), potentially indicating a lower wing-loading for reduced take-off distance and increased maneuverability. The JF-17B also has a different materials proportion to the single-seat JF-17, which might indicate greater composite usage.

Given the extensiveness of structural changes (in addition to the second seat) on the JF-17B, the JF-17B’s relationship to the JF-17 Block-III will be worth observing. For example, among the JF-17 Block-III’s changes is three-axis FBW supplanting the Thunder’s existing hybrid flight control system (which has mechanical controls of bank and yaw, while electronic for pitch).

To bridge the gap between the 50th JF-17 Block-II and the JF-17 Block-III, the PAF has ordered an additional 12 JF-17 Block-II (Arabian Aerospace). Although the current PAF Chief of Air Staff (CAS) hinted at using the JF-17B for a lead-in fighter-trainer (LIFT) role, it is unclear if the PAF will order the JF-17B in numbers.

The JF-17 has replaced most of the PAF’s Chengdu F-7P units. Interestingly, the remaining F-7P/FT-7P unit is the No. 18 operational conversion unit (OCU). The PAF has the option of transitioning the No. 18 OCU to a mixed JF-17 Block-II and JF-17B fleet, enabling No. 18 to provide OCU for the No. 16, 26, 02 and 14.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 13 Dec 2017 11:08

Kartik wrote:Second prototype of JF-17B trainer now flying in China, where it is being developed. The whole "Pakistani" component of the program basically relates to the program management part, which the PAF does and then PAC Kamra gets technology for building some parts of the jet while the rest is imported.

[
[/quote]

Paki component is to buy and do screwdrivergiri.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Austin » 14 Dec 2017 10:54

Trump signs bill that includes $700m reimbursement for Pakistan

WASHINGTON: US President Donald Trump has signed into law a $700 billion defence bill that includes up to $700 million to reimburse Pakistan for supporting US military operations in Afghanistan.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby chola » 14 Dec 2017 12:27

The JF-17B looks like a big headed deformed mutant version of the rather pretty single seater.

Full 3-Axis FBW gives hint of Block III which is also supposed to include:

1. Composites
2. 9 hardpoints
3. new uprated WS-13 engine to allow Mach 2
4. AESA radar
5. IRST
6. HMD/S (helmet mounted display and sight)

Block III is supposed to start induction in 2019. We’ll see how this Super Blunder turns out.

If you think we are obsessed with the LCA, the Pakis are 10X with this screwdriver giri. PDF has entire sub-forum with hundreds of threads devoted to just the JF-17. Amazes me how they can find that many topics with one lightweight PLAAF reject. The only good point about it is it is simple enough to build in large numbers quickly and on schedule. If the Block III Super Blunder were left with an extended timeline of uncertainty like the MKIA and MK2 then Lahore would be raining Pakis from buildings.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Austin » 14 Dec 2017 14:27

Worthy Targets for Tejas Mk1A

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Kartik » 15 Dec 2017 00:57

Paki pilot only gets to fly on JF-17B trainer recently! That should tell one everything about how involved they really are in the program and who really drives the development. the Pakis are clients, not the developers, as much as they would like to fool themselves and the rest of the world into believing that it is their own product.

Photos- Paki pilot takes part in test flight of new JF-17B fighter

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Austin » 24 Dec 2017 14:00

The frontal view of JF-17B.

Image

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby arun » 26 Dec 2017 08:20

X Posted from the Terroristan thread.

saip wrote:
yensoy wrote:
I hope more than a few Paki heads roll on the birthday of the Qaid, on the border and elsewhere. We can do another test of the ATGM and release the video.


3 Pakistani soldiers martyred in 'unprovoked' cross-LoC firing by Indian army: ISPR

Retaliation?



Interesting that the Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Punjabi dominated Military of the Islamic Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan are spinning a cross LoC boots on the ground attack by our Military as a cross LoC firing incident :lol: :

Vips wrote:Indian Army crosses LOC to retaliate, kills three Pak soldiers.

Indian Army troops crossed over the Line of Control killing three Pakistani army soldiers and leaving one injured in a cross border raid on Monday retaliating to the death of four India army personnel including a major on Saturday. Based on ground intelligence and surveillance intelligence, agencies have identified the Pakistani soldiers killed as sepoy Sajjad, sepoy Abdul Rehman and Sepoy M Usman. The injured soldier on the Pakistani side has been identified as sepoy Athzaz Hussain.

"We got a go ahead to cross over and carry out an operation to avenge the killings of four soldiers including a major rank officer," said government sources confirming the army strike in PoK. According to a statement by Pakistan's Inter Services Public Relations, Indian forces opened fire along the Line of Control killing three of their soldiers. The raid happened in 12 Division of the 59 Balooch Unit in PoK, sources said.

This comes a day after Indian Army said one Pakistani soldier was killed in retaliation to the Pakistani Army firing killing four Indian Army personnel. ISPR said one other than the casualties one Pakistani soldier was injured. There have been frequent skirmishes on the line of Control with Pakistan Army indulging in repeated ceasefire violations. There has also been an increase in infiltration attempts from Pakistan trying to send terrorists into Jammu and Kashmir.


Meanwhile as inflicting disproportionately severe consequences on the transgressions of the Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Punjabi dominated Military of the Islamic Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan is the only message the Uniformed Jihadi’s are capable of understanding, I look forward to our Military dishing out a lot more punishment. The present level of punitive action while welcome has on this count some way to go to address the loss of Indian lives:

Army major among four soldiers killed in Pak firing on LoC : Three of the dead have been identified as Major Prafulla Ambadas Moharkar, Lance Naik Gurmail Singh and Sepoy Pargat Singh, Udhampur-based Defence Ministry spokesperson Colonel N N Joshi said.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Khalsa » 26 Dec 2017 14:42

Let them spin it the way they like.
They started it , we will finish it.

and BTW its not the Punjabiaat thats the problem.
Its rampant use of , using Islam as a yard stick to plan, justify, execute and control everything.
They went the way of the dogs the moment democracy was given a back seat and the religion first.

Try a pathan or taliban or a balochi. its more of the same.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 26 Dec 2017 16:00

Regarding Jf-17, funny how the JF-17 has replaced the F-7P's in the PAF and JF-17B is replacing the Trainer variant of the F-7P. So seems to be the latest variant of Mig -21 with a Turbofan engine.

PAF preferred to retire the F-7P inducted in late 80's and 90's to the Mirages inducted in the 70's. hmm

If only PAF F-16 fleet is demobilized soon it will be interesting.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby chola » 26 Dec 2017 16:40

Aditya_V wrote:Regarding Jf-17, funny how the JF-17 has replaced the F-7P's in the PAF and JF-17B is replacing the Trainer variant of the F-7P. So seems to be the latest variant of Mig -21 with a Turbofan engine.

PAF preferred to retire the F-7P inducted in late 80's and 90's to the Mirages inducted in the 70's. hmm

If only PAF F-16 fleet is demobilized soon it will be interesting.


The JF-17 is simply the re-named Super 7/Sabre II from the 1980s after the US embargo clobbered the project for three decades.

“Super 7” meaning an uprated F-7 with American F-16 tech. And the Pakis were involved in funding this project back then in the 1980s.
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/j-7p.htm

By the early 1980s the PAF was looking for a new fighter to replace the F-6 [Chinese J-6]. Pakistan initiated the Sabre II project which would upgrade the Chengdu F-7M Skybolt with a Western engine and avionics.
...
The program was partially funded by Pakistan, which was considered as the main potential customer. The fighter was offered as a low-cost alternative to the F-16 to meet Pakistan's 150-aircraft requirement to replace Chinese-supplied F-6s (MiG-19s). The flyaway cost will be $8-9 million.
...
Grumman and China studied the feasibility of producing substantially improved F-7s using US engines and avionics. The extensively modified version of China's F-7 (MiG-21) fighter, called the Sabre II, would be re-engined and given a new forward fuselage with "solid" nose and side intakes. The new plane was deep modernization of J-7 fighter. The Sabre II was an F-7 with a General Electric F404 or Pratt & Whitney PW1216 or PW1120 engine producing between 16,0001b and 20,0001b thrust. The aircraft was equipped with the Westinghouse AN/APG-66 radar (the same as on the F-16 fighter.
...
Chinese relations with the West broke down following the suppression of the Tiananmen Square protests in June 1989. Consequently, the "Sabre II" project was cancelled.


The JF-17 is simply the result of the Super 7 without the American engine and radar and 30 years late.

It was rejected early on by PLAAF as the chinis opted for the Zionist Lavi for their F-Solah equivalent — the J-10. Thus the JF-17 was always the poor brother to the PLAAF backed Lavi at Chengdu Aircraft. The onlee good point about the JF-17 is its simplicity which means that even Pakistan can screwdriver it together in large numbers.

The Pakis’ F-Solah love means they will never get rid of its F-16 until they fall out of the sky because what the JF-17 was supposed to be, the Super 7 with an American engine and the F-16’s radar, died in 1989. The JF-17 with its smokey Russian RD-33 variant and cheap PRC radar will never occupy the same place of pride in the PAF’s heart even though Pakistan is “making” it.


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