Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby kancha » 03 Nov 2020 20:34

40% of Pakistan's frontline fighter jets docked for a variety of reasons

Looks like the JF-17 fleet is getting a bit 'old'! :rotfl:

It is Pakistan's frontline fighter, warplanes to take on the Rafale. It is also one of China's principal jets along with the J-20. As it should be, as it is a joint production effort by China and Pakistan.

Latest reports from the government sources show that about 40 per cent of JF-17 fighters in two Pakistan Air force bases are grounded for a variety of reasons. And there is no quick fix for the problems as they relate to structural issues.

The JF-17's canopy electrical system is malfunctioning. This is also the case in the JF-17B, the dual seater. This is a potential danger as it makes ejection by the pilot in case of it being required either difficult or almost impossible.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby RKumar » 03 Nov 2020 21:00

kancha wrote:40% of Pakistan's frontline fighter jets docked for a variety of reasons

Looks like the JF-17 fleet is getting a bit 'old'! :rotfl:


Napaki are ahead of India wonly sir ... when we have just started inducting Tejas they are decommissioning their JF-17 wonly sir, making room for the fifth-gen JF-31 :mrgreen:

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Rakesh » 03 Nov 2020 23:08

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 68896?s=20 ---> While the PL-15 and Meteor have roughly similar max ranges (DMAX); the Meteor still has a significant advantage over PL-15 in No Escape Zone (NEZ) & pK (effective kill probability), says a report by UK's top think-tank RUSI.

Image

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby chetonzz » 04 Nov 2020 10:49

RKumar wrote:
kancha wrote:40% of Pakistan's frontline fighter jets docked for a variety of reasons

Looks like the JF-17 fleet is getting a bit 'old'! :rotfl:


Napaki are ahead of India wonly sir ... when we have just started inducting Tejas they are decommissioning their JF-17 wonly sir, making room for the fifth-gen JF-31 :mrgreen:


video made by a youtuber...looks nice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or5atJzzFf0

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 04 Nov 2020 12:09

40% grounded and for something like JF-17, 60% uptime. only 36% of JF-17 fleet will be available at any given time. Plus PGM, BVR questions. It is the F-16's which are the backbone of the PAF as on today.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby rajsunder » 04 Nov 2020 23:31

Aditya_V wrote:40% grounded and for something like JF-17, 60% uptime. only 36% of JF-17 fleet will be available at any given time. Plus PGM, BVR questions. It is the F-16's which are the backbone of the PAF as on today.


chetonzz wrote:
RKumar wrote:
Napaki are ahead of India wonly sir ... when we have just started inducting Tejas they are decommissioning their JF-17 wonly sir, making room for the fifth-gen JF-31 :mrgreen:


video made by a youtuber...looks nice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or5atJzzFf0


When pak choose western radar and other electronics over chineese maal for the junk-fighter-17. I believe that the western radar and other electronics could not be shipped to china for integration testing and had to be done in pak by paki engineers, due to export restrictions.
looks like the paki engineers overlooked the weight specifications provided by chineese and tried to integrate the biggest radar and electronics that they can buy.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Raman » 04 Nov 2020 23:36

If they did indeed plug in the biggest sets they could fit, the problem are more likely with power and cooling than weight.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby rajsunder » 05 Nov 2020 00:28

Raman wrote:If they did indeed plug in the biggest sets they could fit, the problem are more likely with power and cooling than weight.

i meant powerful when i meant biggest.
The video also spoke about electrical issues also.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 05 Nov 2020 04:54

JF17s have Chinese radars KLJ 10 or something, there are noWestern avionics, only major Western component are Martin Baker seats

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Philip » 09 Nov 2020 11:57

Putting their faith ," ridin' on Biden!"

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Paul » 09 Nov 2020 16:37

PLA will not give their latest radar or other equipment to Pakis.....knowing them to be equal opportunity pimps.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby wig » 09 Nov 2020 18:31

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/comme ... ons-168180

Pak military steps in for mercenary missions

extracted


Pakistan Air Force is known to have stepped in to provide trained pilots out of its own inventory, given the known excellent political relations between Erdogan and Imran Khan. It is reported that Pakistani pilots have been flying Turkish F-16s for the past year. Greece has, meanwhile, been complaining about Pak pilots violating their air space flying Turkish F-16s and even P-3C Orions. Whilst this may seem to be an innocent helping gesture by a friendly nation, clearly there are implications for India. The US is believed to have denied permission for PAF pilots to fly the Turkish F-16s, asking them to seek assistance from Saudi Arabia and Qatar to augment their pilot strength. But while frantic efforts are on to step up fighter pilot training, Erdogan went scouting for trained F-16 pilots from other nations. That’s when Pakistan’s Imran Khan obliged.

Earlier in Indo-Pak history, the PAF is known to have got the services of several (eight by one account) F-104 Starfighter jets from the Jordanians during the 1971 war. Given its propensity to team up with other Muslim nations in matters military, India should be wary of these activities and how they could impact our neighbour’s war-waging capabilities. Timely help by the PAF is bound to be reciprocated down the line by Turkey, especially in light of the cooling off of decades old military supply chain from the US and the Turkish Aerospace’s considerable aviation related wherewithal. Pakistan has traditionally opted to field its military assets in aid of other friendly Muslim nations, not merely to further its strategic interests, but also to save on valuable foreign exchange in terms of spares and fuel that military training of its own Air Force would demand. This is even more critical given the country’s largely failing economic predicament.

Pakistan has made ‘mercenarisation’ standard fit for its armed forces. Whilst being active in various UN assignments all over the world, it has a standing commitment to deploy its military in support of the House of Saud, mainly for security duties after the Iranian revolution of 1979. It maintains almost 20,000 military personnel there, including pilots in its Air Force, headed by an ex-Pak Army Chief, General Raheel Sharif to fight, ironically, what it calls ‘terrorism’. Possibly, the windfall of training with the Americans during the Cold War tempted several African and Middle-East nations to requisition the services of Pakistani military personnel to further their security interests.

As the sixth largest military in the world, it has maintained contingents, missions and battalions in several Middle-East states such as Saudi Arabia, Libya, Jordan, Iraq, Oman, UAE, Bahrain and Kuwait. Likewise, the Zimbabwean Air Force appointed Daudpota as commander of its Air Force, deploying several other PAF pilots too. PAF pilots flew Royal Saudi Air Force Lightnings in 1969 to repel South Yemeni incursions. Pakistan’s military ties with the UAE started as early as 1971, the first five Air Chiefs of the UAE having been PAF officers. PAF indeed then saw the UAE Air Force as an extension of itself. A PAF pilot, Saiful Azam, shot down two Israeli aircraft flying for Jordan during the Six-Day War. Also, Pakistan’s Special Services Group (SSG) was instrumental in freeing Mecca’s Grand Mosque of militants in 1979.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Karan M » 20 Nov 2020 14:26

Lisa wrote:France turns the screws on Imran Khan, declines upgrade for Mirage, subs and more

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-ne ... Y80dN.html


Very revealing report.

Apparently the PAF is so starved for resources that it wants to continue to keep its Mirages in service and only 50% are serviceability at any time. So much for the JF17 program. They were also interested in some Air Defence System (wonder which one) and further upgrades for the Agosta 90.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 20 Nov 2020 15:02

I don't more than 70 of those Mirage III/V are flight worthy or even 50, but as 27-Feb-19 showed, the PAF used 3 types of Aircraft

1) F-16 Launched 7 Amraam's and a F-16 came really close to the LOC and dropped a LGB at BHQ Naushera( providence made sure a Tree was in its Path), this is when the Bisons came and did a Dogfight.

2) Mirage III/V launched H-4 Raptor guided UAV from deep within POK/ Paki Territory but due to Jamming/ Guidance missed Targets by a mile

3) JF-17's did not launch any AAM(DG ISPR claimed initially no F-16's used only JF-17, when Amraam was shown Pakis claimed it was one sold to Taiwan etc.), dropped Mk-83 dumb bombs with Range extension kits which again comfortably missed thier Targets.

I.E JF-17 did not launch BVR missiles or any PGM that day when the PAF needed it the most, looks like the PGM capability by an aircraft other than F-16's is useful to the Pakis.

It was only the downing of the Mig-21 Bison and capture of Wing Commander Abhinandan which gave the PAF necessary cover, otherwise with IAF action on 26-Feb-19 and with F-16 crash videos being present, PAF would have been exposed in front of its Public.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby chetak » 21 Nov 2020 01:04

x posted from the political thread


meanwhile, back at the ranch..........

the paki cowboys just got shafted by imran ahmed khan niazi :mrgreen:

so now imran ahmed khan niazi may be back to once again hustling for cheeni maal.


France refuses to upgrade Pakistan’s Mirage fighter jets, submarines, in retaliation to Imran Khan’s diatribes against President Macron



France refuses to upgrade Pakistan’s Mirage fighter jets, submarines, in retaliation to Imran Khan’s diatribes against President Macron



The decision by Paris to not upgrade the Mirage III and Mirage 5 fighter jets could bear a huge impact on the Pakistani Air Force which has about 150 Mirage fighter aircraft manufactured by the French organisation Dassault Aviation

20 November, 2020
OpIndia Staff


With the relationship between France and Pakistan taking a nosedive following Imran Khan’s verbal attack against the French President Emmanuel Macron for taking action against radical separatist Islamists, France has decided against upgrading Pakistan’s fleet of Mirage fighter jets, air defence systems and the Agosta 90B class submarines.

According to a report published in Hindustan Times, France has also reportedly asked Qatar to not allow Pakistani-origin personnel to work on the fighter jets, fearing that they will leak the technical details of the aircraft. Qatar is another country besides India which owns French-made Rafale jets.

The decision by Paris to not upgrade the Mirage III and Mirage 5 fighter jets could bear a huge impact on the Pakistani Air Force which has about 150 Mirage fighter aircraft manufactured by the French organisation Dassault Aviation. However, only half of them are serviceable. As per diplomats in New Delhi and Paris, Pakistan had requested France for upgrades to keep fighter jets in the air. However, the request was declined, one of the diplomats said.

Another request from Pakistan to upgrade its Agosta 90B class submarines with air-independent propulsion (AIP) systems that would allow them to stay underwater for a longer duration has also been turned down by France. Pakistan has three Agosta 90B submarines: Khalid, Saad and Hamza.

Earlier this month, France took a stern decision of revoking the visitor visas of 183 Pakistani nationals, including kins of Lt Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha, the erstwhile chief of Pakistan’s intelligence agency ISI. Besides, France had also forcibly deported 118 Pakistanis.

France is not the only one who had come down hard against Pakistan. Earlier, German Chancellor Angel Merkel had passed up a similar request for supply of the AIP system to upgrade submarine in Pakistan’s inventory because of its role in promoting terror, most notably in Islamabad’s failure in cooperating with Germany in identifying the perpetrators of the truck bomb attack on the Germany Embassy in Kabul in May 2017.

Pakistan tangles with France over President Macron’s strident criticism of radical Islam

The retributory action taken against Pakistan is believed to be grounded in Pakistan PM Imran Khan’s vigorous criticism of French President Emmanuel Macron over the latter’s comments on radical Islam in the wake of the gruesome killing of a teacher in the Parisian suburb.

Samuel Paty, a teacher in a school in Paris, was brutally beheaded by an Islamist for reproducing the Charlie Hebdo published Prophet Muhammad’s caricatures in his classroom. Days after his death, Macron paid a tribute to the deceased teacher, claiming that Paty epitomised the French secularism and Freedom of Speech which they would continue to uphold.

Macron spoke against the extremism bred by the radical Islam and stressed the need for developing an “Islam of Enlightenment”. Simultaneously, French authorities initiated crackdown against certain mosques and deported individuals they deemed were involved in extremist activities in France.

Macron also defended the right to caricature, stating, “right to caricature is an essential part of being French”.

Macron’s remark critiquing radical Islam had stirred a furore in Muslim countries, whose leaders wasted no time in launching an attack against the French President. Turkish authoritarian ruler Recep Erdogan questioned Macron’s mental fitness. Former Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad posted a long series of tweets rationalising the killing of Paty over blasphemy.

Imran Khan trained guns against Macron for his defence of caricatures of Prophet Muhammad
Pakistani PM Imran Khan too justified the beheading of Samuel Paty during his address at UNGA. In a video statement at UNGA, he tried to justify what has happened in France and said, “The Prophet lives in our hearts. When he is ridiculed, when he is insulted, it hurts… We human beings understand one thing: The pain of the heart is far, far, far more hurtful than physical pain. And that’s why the Muslims react to this.”

In a tweet later, he said, “Hallmark of a leader is he unites human beings, as Mandela did, rather than dividing them. This is a time when Pres Macron could have put healing touch & denied space to extremists rather than creating further polarisation & marginalisation that inevitably leads to radicalisation.”

However, Khan did not stop just there. In a bid to appear as the leading light of the Muslim Ummah, Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan intensified his attack against the Western countries, especially against France, by releasing a statement wherein he issued a clarion call to the Muslim leaders in the world to take note of the “growing Islamophobia” in the non-Muslim states.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby John » 21 Nov 2020 01:14

Karan M wrote:
Lisa wrote:France turns the screws on Imran Khan, declines upgrade for Mirage, subs and more

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-ne ... Y80dN.html


Very revealing report.

Apparently the PAF is so starved for resources that it wants to continue to keep its Mirages in service and only 50% are serviceability at any time. So much for the JF17 program. They were also interested in some Air Defence System (wonder which one) and further upgrades for the Agosta 90.

There have been some reporting that Pakistanis are selling Chinese hq-16 in black market trying to raise $$$ to likely western Intel.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby AkshaySG » 21 Nov 2020 01:16

What's the current status of PAF's Mirage III/V fleet, Were their any additional upgrades after Project ROSE in 90's??

Wondering how capable they are as compared to the Bison Migs

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby nachiket » 21 Nov 2020 04:52

AkshaySG wrote:What's the current status of PAF's Mirage III/V fleet, Were their any additional upgrades after Project ROSE in 90's??

Wondering how capable they are as compared to the Bison Migs

Not really comparable. The Mirages are for ground-attack only. Bisons are primarily air-defence jets with a secondary ground-attack capability.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby titash » 21 Nov 2020 07:10

nachiket wrote:
AkshaySG wrote:What's the current status of PAF's Mirage III/V fleet, Were their any additional upgrades after Project ROSE in 90's??

Wondering how capable they are as compared to the Bison Migs

Not really comparable. The Mirages are for ground-attack only. Bisons are primarily air-defence jets with a secondary ground-attack capability.


I believe the ROSE I Mirage-3 aircraft were upgraded to fire the Sidewinder in conjunction with the Grifo radar. No suitable BVRAAM was integrated. The ROSE II Mirage-5 were of course for ground attack. I believe the ROSE III Mirages were similar.

Irrespective, its a textbook example of how the PAF was thrifty and husbanded it's meagre resources carefully and acquired over 100 reliable western fighters, before planning and graduating to the JF-17 which for all intents an purposes can (on paper) take on the IAF's single engine fighters.

All said and done, Indian ingenuity (under duress as always) has expressed itself - the Pakis being Indians by DNA.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 21 Nov 2020 11:26

I Totally disagree, Pakis have done well due to American largesse, if those F16 where much of the funding came from US tax payer are removed PAF is nothing, US and all Western countries know the Tail no and PAF pilot who died, but choose spread Paki propaganda

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Karan M » 21 Nov 2020 20:04

titash wrote:I believe the ROSE I Mirage-3 aircraft were upgraded to fire the Sidewinder in conjunction with the Grifo radar. No suitable BVRAAM was integrated. The ROSE II Mirage-5 were of course for ground attack. I believe the ROSE III Mirages were similar.

Irrespective, its a textbook example of how the PAF was thrifty and husbanded it's meagre resources carefully and acquired over 100 reliable western fighters, before planning and graduating to the JF-17 which for all intents an purposes can (on paper) take on the IAF's single engine fighters.

All said and done, Indian ingenuity (under duress as always) has expressed itself - the Pakis being Indians by DNA.


The US fighters came because of US largesse. The Mirages are long in the tooth and severely obsolescent. The word reliable is a significant overstatement.

But even with the improvements and cost-saving measures, the aging planes are becoming more difficult to maintain.
“They have outlived their lives... after their overhauls (they) have become highly unreliable, we even met with lots of accidents,” Lateef said.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.arabne ... 293341/amp

Though the article is a puff piece commissioned by the PAF as usual, the reality of the overhaul quality vis a vis PAF manpower skill level, spares quality and airframe age is evident above.

Next, the JF-17s, its already been posted around 40% of the fleet is non operational due to structural issues. Thats a pretty damning number for a new airframe which has also had enough time to mature, considering even more airframes will be docked due to avionics, regular maintenance and overhaul.

Nor are the JF-17s capable of taking on the IAF operational single engine fighters such as the Mirage 2000s. On Feb 27th, around 8 Mirage 3/5 and JF17s went up against a mere two Mirage 2000s. Not one JF17 was able to launch on the Mirage 2000s. Why? The answer judging by the PAFs subsequent scramble for new radars and missiles seems clear enough, their existing kit wasn't good enough.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby jamwal » 21 Nov 2020 20:35

Pakistani Mirages were more than one generation behind Indian Mirages-2000 even before latter were upgraded. They are limited to ground attack role and have almost negligible A2A capability.

Even their airframes must be reaching their expiry dates. Only remarkable thing about this news is how Pakis planned to pay for the upgrades. Even if they have 60-70 planes, per plane cost can't be less than USD 20 million at the lowest. Do they have a billion plus USD for just the upgrades? Why not buy their JF-17 if it's one of the best in it's class? All the stuff will come from their bestest Abbu China which can afford them favourable financial terms for it's own local plane.

But Pakis are willing to spend billions to upgrade 30-40 years old French jets instead of buying new Chinese jets which they "manufacture themselves" :mrgreen: .

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby LakshmanPST » 22 Nov 2020 17:39

Does anyone know when Pakistan originally bought these Mirage III and V jets (not the 2nd hand ones, but original order)...??? I searched on google but couldn't find an answer...

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby andy B » 22 Nov 2020 17:59

LakshmanPST wrote:Does anyone know when Pakistan originally bought these Mirage III and V jets (not the 2nd hand ones, but original order)...??? I searched on google but couldn't find an answer...


Saar this is a literal boondongle of a zoo. Ther will ozzie mirages in there mixed with libyan airframes (though i think these were primarily scanvenged for spares), libyan and spanksh airframes.

The original IIRC were french airframes for the III in the late 90s france also sold them some 40 or so airframes though i think these were second hand but refurbished and upgraded

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 22 Nov 2020 21:17

LakshmanPST wrote:Does anyone know when Pakistan originally bought these Mirage III and V jets (not the 2nd hand ones, but original order)...??? I searched on google but couldn't find an answer...


The First 28 Mirage III's were bought before the 1971 war, 1 was lost in a training accident, 23 survived the war, Pakis being Pakis claimed they had bought 24 aircraft and 1 lost in training and 0 in combat. France later disclosed they had supplied 28 Mirage II aircraft beore the 1971 war. The wanted to repeat the sucess of Israeli Airforce in the 1967 war who used the Mirage III very effectively in the 1967 war.

IAF SU7 and Hunter doing counter air operations claimed to have hit sharp nosed aircraft which fitted the Mirage III. It is believed 4 such Mirage III were destroyed IAF counter air operations in the 1971 war.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby nachiket » 24 Nov 2020 06:54

titash wrote:I believe the ROSE I Mirage-3 aircraft were upgraded to fire the Sidewinder in conjunction with the Grifo radar. No suitable BVRAAM was integrated. The ROSE II Mirage-5 were of course for ground attack. I believe the ROSE III Mirages were similar.

Well the ROSE upgrades took place mostly in the 1990's, but the Pakis did not consider them even as good as the F-7PG's for the air defence role during the Kargil war. Here from the horse's mouth (Kaiser Tufail's blog):

Code: Select all

http://kaiser-aeronaut.blogspot.com/2009/01/kargil-conflict-and-pakistan-air-force.html


It must also be noted that other than F-16s, the PAF did not have a capable enough fighter for patrolling, as the minimum requirement in this scenario was an on-board airborne intercept radar, exceptional agility and sufficient staying power. F-7s had reasonably good manoeuvrability but lacked an intercept radar as well as endurance, while the ground attack Mirage-III/5s and A-5s were sitting ducks for the air combat mission.


It is possible the Grifo radar wasn't fully functional yet during Kargil. Nevertheless, they never integrated any radar guided missile on the Mirage-III. Even with the Grifo they are limited to the AIM-9L only and thus unlikely to be used in the air defence role except in desperate circumstances.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby wig » 24 Nov 2020 14:03

https://www.livemint.com/news/world/pak ... 49022.html

Pakistan to form new national intel body to coordinate country’s spy agencies under ISI chief
extract
Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan has approved the setting up of the National Intelligence Coordination Committee, a mechanism to coordinate over two dozen intelligence organisations in the country, to be headed by the ISI chief, according to a media report on Tuesday.



reasons
One of the lessons learnt by the country during the fight against terrorism was that effective intelligence coordination was the weakest link in the entire effort. It importantly resulted in the loss of critical time and in some cases, the agencies even could not piece together the information available to them. It was, moreover, a major hurdle to collective strategising, the report said.

a leaked version of the Abbottabad Commission’s report had revealed that the commission, while noting the absence of civil-military intelligence coordination mechanism, too had proposed establishment of an agency on the lines of the US Department of Homeland Security to synergise the working of main spy agencies in the country.

The Abbottabad Commission was set up to investigate the circumstances surrounding the killing of elusive Al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden in a US raid on a compound in the garrison city of Abbottabad in 2011.

Although the report has not been officially declassified, it reportedly made 32 wide-ranging recommendations to address the issues identified during the course of its investigation on the basis of testimonies by key civilian and military functionaries; intel coordination was one of them.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby kit » 24 Nov 2020 14:42

chetak wrote:x posted from the political thread


meanwhile, back at the ranch..........

the paki cowboys just got shafted by imran ahmed khan niazi :mrgreen:

so now imran ahmed khan niazi may be back to once again hustling for cheeni maal.


France refuses to upgrade Pakistan’s Mirage fighter jets, submarines, in retaliation to Imran Khan’s diatribes against President Macron



France refuses to upgrade Pakistan’s Mirage fighter jets, submarines, in retaliation to Imran Khan’s diatribes against President Macron



The decision by Paris to not upgrade the Mirage III and Mirage 5 fighter jets could bear a huge impact on the Pakistani Air Force which has about 150 Mirage fighter aircraft manufactured by the French organisation Dassault Aviation

20 November, 2020
OpIndia Staff


With the relationship between France and Pakistan taking a nosedive following Imran Khan’s verbal attack against the French President Emmanuel Macron for taking action against radical separatist Islamists, France has decided against upgrading Pakistan’s fleet of Mirage fighter jets, air defence systems and the Agosta 90B class submarines.

According to a report published in Hindustan Times, France has also reportedly asked Qatar to not allow Pakistani-origin personnel to work on the fighter jets, fearing that they will leak the technical details of the aircraft. Qatar is another country besides India which owns French-made Rafale jets.

The decision by Paris to not upgrade the Mirage III and Mirage 5 fighter jets could bear a huge impact on the Pakistani Air Force which has about 150 Mirage fighter aircraft manufactured by the French organisation Dassault Aviation. However, only half of them are serviceable. As per diplomats in New Delhi and Paris, Pakistan had requested France for upgrades to keep fighter jets in the air. However, the request was declined, one of the diplomats said.

Another request from Pakistan to upgrade its Agosta 90B class submarines with air-independent propulsion (AIP) systems that would allow them to stay underwater for a longer duration has also been turned down by France. Pakistan has three Agosta 90B submarines: Khalid, Saad and Hamza.

Earlier this month, France took a stern decision of revoking the visitor visas of 183 Pakistani nationals, including kins of Lt Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha, the erstwhile chief of Pakistan’s intelligence agency ISI. Besides, France had also forcibly deported 118 Pakistanis.

France is not the only one who had come down hard against Pakistan. Earlier, German Chancellor Angel Merkel had passed up a similar request for supply of the AIP system to upgrade submarine in Pakistan’s inventory because of its role in promoting terror, most notably in Islamabad’s failure in cooperating with Germany in identifying the perpetrators of the truck bomb attack on the Germany Embassy in Kabul in May 2017.

Pakistan tangles with France over President Macron’s strident criticism of radical Islam

The retributory action taken against Pakistan is believed to be grounded in Pakistan PM Imran Khan’s vigorous criticism of French President Emmanuel Macron over the latter’s comments on radical Islam in the wake of the gruesome killing of a teacher in the Parisian suburb.

Samuel Paty, a teacher in a school in Paris, was brutally beheaded by an Islamist for reproducing the Charlie Hebdo published Prophet Muhammad’s caricatures in his classroom. Days after his death, Macron paid a tribute to the deceased teacher, claiming that Paty epitomised the French secularism and Freedom of Speech which they would continue to uphold.

Macron spoke against the extremism bred by the radical Islam and stressed the need for developing an “Islam of Enlightenment”. Simultaneously, French authorities initiated crackdown against certain mosques and deported individuals they deemed were involved in extremist activities in France.

Macron also defended the right to caricature, stating, “right to caricature is an essential part of being French”.

Macron’s remark critiquing radical Islam had stirred a furore in Muslim countries, whose leaders wasted no time in launching an attack against the French President. Turkish authoritarian ruler Recep Erdogan questioned Macron’s mental fitness. Former Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad posted a long series of tweets rationalising the killing of Paty over blasphemy.

Imran Khan trained guns against Macron for his defence of caricatures of Prophet Muhammad
Pakistani PM Imran Khan too justified the beheading of Samuel Paty during his address at UNGA. In a video statement at UNGA, he tried to justify what has happened in France and said, “The Prophet lives in our hearts. When he is ridiculed, when he is insulted, it hurts… We human beings understand one thing: The pain of the heart is far, far, far more hurtful than physical pain. And that’s why the Muslims react to this.”

In a tweet later, he said, “Hallmark of a leader is he unites human beings, as Mandela did, rather than dividing them. This is a time when Pres Macron could have put healing touch & denied space to extremists rather than creating further polarisation & marginalisation that inevitably leads to radicalisation.”

However, Khan did not stop just there. In a bid to appear as the leading light of the Muslim Ummah, Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan intensified his attack against the Western countries, especially against France, by releasing a statement wherein he issued a clarion call to the Muslim leaders in the world to take note of the “growing Islamophobia” in the non-Muslim states.


That might be a nice political move to keep the military under pressure., Cutting off the nose to spite that face ! .. keep bowling those self wickets :mrgreen:

kit
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby kit » 24 Nov 2020 14:59

Karan M wrote:
Lisa wrote:France turns the screws on Imran Khan, declines upgrade for Mirage, subs and more

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-ne ... Y80dN.html


Very revealing report.

Apparently the PAF is so starved for resources that it wants to continue to keep its Mirages in service and only 50% are serviceability at any time. So much for the JF17 program. They were also interested in some Air Defence System (wonder which one) and further upgrades for the Agosta 90.


Are they flying more CAP missions with a larger number of escorts? ..maybe some ummah bro is helping with spares

chetak
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby chetak » 24 Nov 2020 16:59

kit wrote:
That might be a nice political move to keep the military under pressure., Cutting off the nose to spite that face ! .. keep bowling those self wickets :mrgreen:



India is a bigger market both for french weapons as well as other industrial goods. a paper in bangalore runs off french high speed presses, so much so that these guys have the time to print newspapers for others too. their stuff is good.

A forceful point has been made and another chink in the muslim armour has been exposed for leverage.

jamwal
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby jamwal » 24 Nov 2020 18:04

kit wrote:
Karan M wrote:
Very revealing report.

Apparently the PAF is so starved for resources that it wants to continue to keep its Mirages in service and only 50% are serviceability at any time. So much for the JF17 program. They were also interested in some Air Defence System (wonder which one) and further upgrades for the Agosta 90.


Are they flying more CAP missions with a larger number of escorts? ..maybe some ummah bro is helping with spares



No ummah birather has the same Mirages as Pakis do, afaik. They are maintaining them inhouse.

kit
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Posts: 4066
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby kit » 24 Nov 2020 23:05

chetak wrote:
kit wrote:
That might be a nice political move to keep the military under pressure., Cutting off the nose to spite that face ! .. keep bowling those self wickets :mrgreen:



India is a bigger market both for french weapons as well as other industrial goods. a paper in bangalore runs off french high speed presses, so much so that these guys have the time to print newspapers for others too. their stuff is good.

A forceful point has been made and another chink in the muslim armour has been exposed for leverage.


I am thinking the cricketer might be more politically savy vs the army than he is credited for


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