Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 12 Dec 2018 16:49

Lets not condone the decision of the Russians, its a bad decision by them

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Austin » 23 Dec 2018 15:25

The start of construction in China of the second frigate of the project 054A / P for Pakistan

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby chola » 23 Dec 2018 16:25

Will be big upgrade for them. Their first VLS vessel I think. This is the chini workhorse in their “pirate” patrols of the IOR. I read an US Naval Proceedings report that calls the Type 054A the best “pure” frigate today on weaponry, range and numbers (30+) but then goes on to explain why it is kind of damning praise when all of the newer frigates (including ours) are destroyer sized at an average of 6000 tons. The US FFGX will be around 6K tons too.

At 4000 tons the 054A is a lightweight compared to the Shivaliks, Talwars and P17s. Works for Cheen because they are built en masse and play a role in a fleet with large numbers of destroyers. This won’t be the case with Pakistan. Will be an upgrade nonetheless because they have chit today.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Vips » 24 Dec 2018 23:10

Pakistan plans to use GPS-guided mortar to target Indian Army bunkers.

Continuing with its ploy of targeting Indian security forces in Jammu and Kashmir, Pakistan plans to make use of GPS-guided mortar for precision attacks in the time to come.

It has been learnt that Pakistan is in the weapons market to purchase the special and technologically advanced mortar which only a few countries currently have in their arsenal. Apart from some European countries, China also has these special mortars although Beijing has kept its features and abilities classified.

Sources reveal that Pakistan is extremely interested in purchasing these and has instructed its embassies around the world to hunt for a viable deal.

The GPS-enabled mortar with other countries - apart from China which has kept its special mortars secret - can target enemy establishments with extreme accuracy. According to an official in the Indian Defence Ministry, the directions and target of these mortars can be altered even after they are fired, making them deadly for even mobile enemy units. Security analysts say that some of these mortars can also differentiate between enemy and friendly forces.

In the past, the United States has made use of GPS-enabled mortar to target Taliban in Afghanistan, and with a high degree of success. As such, technological development of these mortars is a constant process - making the new variants even more deadly.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby williams » 25 Dec 2018 01:05

Good, that means our border fire assaults are causing the expected pain. GPS guided mortar is an expensive novel idea, but you need augmentation tech to calibrate civilian grade GPS signals and simple ECM jammers can make it useless.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby rkhanna » 25 Dec 2018 10:29

Don't understand. Our posts /bunkers are fixed as are theirs . Why would they need gps enabled arty. I am sure both sides already have a fix on each other's positions and the firing codes are almost gospal by now

Unless they plan to use ISR (drones) and target our patrols

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby souravB » 25 Dec 2018 10:44

Whatever it is, it is supposed to be prohibitively costly. It would be cheaper for them to just use guns.
But maybe it is their way to compensate for our gun buildup. In a year or two, we are going to be at advantage with our longer range guns.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Shrinivasan » 25 Dec 2018 10:48

williams wrote:Good, that means our border fire assaults are causing the expected pain. GPS guided mortar is an expensive novel idea, but you need augmentation tech to calibrate civilian grade GPS signals and simple ECM jammers can make it useless.

I think this is more to target our mobile arty? Targeting bunkers should be straightforward with Mortars...

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby brar_w » 25 Dec 2018 12:37

chola wrote: The US FFGX will be around 6K tons too.


6500-7000 tons if I have anything to say about it ;)

On the GPS, the point is valid - using civilian GPS solution will be very susceptible to jamming and disruption and I don't see anyone selling them Mil grade stuff outside of China.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby chola » 25 Dec 2018 17:48

brar_w wrote:
chola wrote: The US FFGX will be around 6K tons too.


6500-7000 tons if I have anything to say about it ;)


Brar ji, but why a FFG if you are buying/building something the size of an AB DDG? I am confused by the terminology of FFG/DDG/CG these days. FFG because of different role?

In the past, roles can be gauged by tonnage. These days, the FFGs being built in the EU and India are DDGs in all but name.

At any rate, for the PN these 054As will be their “capital” ships and they will be outweighed by a third by our far more numerous frigates.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby mody » 25 Dec 2018 18:10

The pakis have access to Beidou military grade signal. Apart from China, Pakistan is the only country given access to the military grade signal from Beidou. If the Chinese have a Beidou guided mortar solution, the pakis will try to get iyt. With all things Chinese it will probably not be as expensive as the western systems and the pakis don't have to pay for it anyways. They only have to bend over a few more times for their Chinese masters.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Rakesh » 25 Dec 2018 18:16

Are they not in permanent bend over mode only? When have they ever gotten up?

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby chola » 25 Dec 2018 18:19

Rakesh wrote:Are they not in permanent bend over mode only? When have they ever gotten up?


:rotfl:


Too funny. BTW, if they are scouring overseas then bending is not working because maybe pakis are not trusted with the mil grade signals. You think Cheen has total confidence in an armed force full of F-Solahs and Amreeki trained senior officers?

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby brar_w » 25 Dec 2018 21:05

chola wrote:
brar_w wrote:
6500-7000 tons if I have anything to say about it ;)


Brar ji, but why a FFG if you are buying/building something the size of an AB DDG? I am confused by the terminology of FFG/DDG/CG these days. FFG because of different role?

In the past, roles can be gauged by tonnage. These days, the FFGs being built in the EU and India are DDGs in all but name.


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4752&p=2311655#p2311655

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Austin » 31 Dec 2018 20:53

Mahaaz with Wajahat Saeed Khan | PAF Ka Mahaaz



New Documentary on PAF , Surprisingly they have 3 stage training as IAF , 60 Hours on turboprop , 120 hrs on basic jet trainer and 45 hours on Advanced Jet Trainer

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby ks_sachin » 31 Dec 2018 21:16

Where they are taught how to show their musharraf to the enemy!!!

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Karan M » 31 Dec 2018 21:55

They copy everything but anyone remember the absolutely scathing review from a journo who spoke to USAF trainers, apparently most PAF F-16 candidates didn't even meet basic standards and were passed for political reasons. The country is a mess. Recruitment won't be gold either.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby parshuram » 01 Jan 2019 00:46

Pakistan Procuring 600 Tanks including T-90’s :shock: Ruskies are offering em T-90’s !!! Pretty Stange Strange if true

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby chola » 01 Jan 2019 01:46

parshuram wrote:Pakistan Procuring 600 Tanks including T-90’s :shock: Ruskies are offering em T-90’s !!! Pretty Stange Strange if true


Russkies are pure mercenaries. You can trust them for as much as you can pay them off.

But this also means the pakis’ chini-derived Al-Khalid sucks even more than the T-90 which is tank-for-tank inferior to the Arjun. Meaning if we fight now, we will go through them like a hot knife through pig fat.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Nikhil T » 01 Jan 2019 04:26

^Pure PsyOps. They don't have the money or the relationship to get the T-90. Russia would be foolish to choose to sell to Pak, when they know that India can just as easily shift it's purchases away from them and to the West.

I won't be surprised if this news came from the our Russian friends, to create the urgency for GoI to buy the Armata.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Vips » 01 Jan 2019 04:36

Two Points here if the Pakis end up buying the T90 tin cans :

First, with respect to Russia selling its arms to both india and Pakistan we will be seeing a type of vendor relationship that US has with respect to Israel and Saudi Arabia, where the more potent package of the same type (F15/F16 and E3) is given to one country (To Israel - in the name of customized Israeli add-ons) and some what inferior to the other (Saudi Arabia).
Given that T90's are already more then 20 years old with the base design itself more then 40 years old, pakistan now buying these tanks at full market price is actually not a bad deal for India. If not the T90's Pakistan would buy the T96 at concessional prices from China.

If Pakistan buys T90 , for sure we will be opting for T-14 Armata with Russia agreeing to not sell the same tanks to Pakistan in the foreseeable future.

Secondly Pakistan opting for Russian armaments sends a signal to other countries who are hooked to Chinese junk. When the biggest customer for Chinese defence products buys from Russia inspite of lucrative deals offered by china only means the chinese stuff is not good enough and will certainly have a negative impact on its exports. The chinese can ill afford that.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Rakesh » 01 Jan 2019 05:04

Anything they acquire is given to them on long term loans (unless they are given for free), which they will never be able to afford to repay. Do Takhe Ki Bikhari! That is why China takes them for a ride. They have sold their soul to the Chinese.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby chola » 02 Jan 2019 19:18

https://mobile.twitter.com/warnesyworld/status/1076087368522874880

Alan Warnes
@warnesyworld
The PLAAF-PAF exercise, Shaheen VII which took place in southern Pakistan over the past three weeks ended today. There was a nice selection of aircraft, including a J-10C, in the background of this closing ceremony image.

Image


No F-Solah in lineup. Afraid of Unkil’s banhammer.

Pakis on twitter and forums claiming they will get J-10C.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby ashishvikas » 02 Jan 2019 23:18

Pakistan Air Force : Combat aircraft
Type : Active + Ordered
F-7 : 136
F-16A/C : 45
JF-17 :70+28+50*
Mirage IIIEP/OF/RP : 69
Mirage 5EF/F/PA: 90

Source: Flight International 2018 by Flight Global.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby nam » 02 Jan 2019 23:42

ashishvikas wrote:Pakistan Air Force : Combat aircraft
Type : Active + Ordered
F-7 : 136
F-16A/C : 45
JF-17 :70+28+50*
Mirage IIIEP/OF/RP : 69
Mirage 5EF/F/PA: 90

Source: Flight International 2018 by Flight Global.


So PAF needs to replace 136 F7 + 159 Mirages! That is 295 jets and they are without BVR!

They will have 200 modern jets to throw at us, with 150 of them being similar to LCA.

And we are screaming about 125 Mig-21.

They are just keeping us engaged by numbers. This tell us what we need is LCA in numbers. Not some uber MRCA 2/3/4.0

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby naird » 03 Jan 2019 00:10

Karan M wrote:They copy everything but anyone remember the absolutely scathing review from a journo who spoke to USAF trainers, apparently most PAF F-16 candidates didn't even meet basic standards and were passed for political reasons. The country is a mess. Recruitment won't be gold either.


When was this ? Havent come across any such articles. Karan is it possible for you to share the link ?

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Rakesh » 03 Jan 2019 00:15

nam wrote:So PAF needs to replace 136 F7 + 159 Mirages! That is 295 jets and they are without BVR!

They will have 200 modern jets to throw at us, with 150 of them being similar to LCA.

And we are screaming about 125 Mig-21.

They are just keeping us engaged by numbers. This tell us what we need is LCA in numbers. Not some uber MRCA 2/3/4.0

Nam, in the words of Air Chief Marshal B S Dhanoa ---> We will overwhelm the PAF. Capability wise, it is skewed in favour of the IAF.

The only thing missing in the above list are the 18 Block 50/52 F-16s. That is their only modern 4th generation fighter.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby nam » 03 Jan 2019 00:25

Rakesh wrote:Nam, in the words of Air Chief Marshal B S Dhanoa ---> We will overwhelm the PAF. Capability wise, it is skewed in favour of the IAF.

The only thing missing in the above list are the 18 Block 50/52 F-16s. That is their only modern 4th generation fighter.


It is waste of our resources to throw Su30 at them. Capability wise, Mirage,Mig29, & LCA are perfect. In fact LCA MK2 is such a perfect platform against the beggars.

Su30, Rafale & future AMCA for the Chinese, would cover the threat spectrum. I really don't see the need for another type in MRCA 2.0.. Sigh

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby naird » 03 Jan 2019 00:48

The current political climate and mud slinging will not let another MMRCA happen. This is the golden chance for our designers to step up and deliver a world class platform in LCA MK2. Infact i think history will show us that pappugiri after all turned out to be good for our aeronautical industry.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby sudeepj » 03 Jan 2019 02:28

brar_w wrote:
chola wrote: The US FFGX will be around 6K tons too.


6500-7000 tons if I have anything to say about it ;)

On the GPS, the point is valid - using civilian GPS solution will be very susceptible to jamming and disruption and I don't see anyone selling them Mil grade stuff outside of China.


Civil GPS can be easily jammed, but its going to jam own receivers too! I dont see anyone selling PakMil these cutting edge armaments except China, which has its own Beidou constellation. The mil code is not going to be as easy to jam.

Finally, GPS receiver designers know about jamming too, and they can build in clever anti-jam modes of operation in the receiver. Simply having a hemispherical antenna that rejects any signal from the ground, instead always looking at the sky will make jamming from the ground that much more difficult.

Integrating a MEMs based INS onto the receiver, (as is done for every GPS receiver on every mobile phone), will ensure that the round works with minimal degradation. The time of flight is going to be small and a good signal may be received for much of the ballistic flight, with the INS kicking in when the signal is jammed.

There are signal processing techniques also which can improve jam resistance.

I am not sure what the proper way to deter this is.. But Indian mil thinkers better be proactive, or as usual, pay for their lethargy with the lives of jawans. What we need is a way for India to shut off the technology pipeline to Pak. The European pipeline is already shut, so is the US, Chini maal remains and one way could be to allow Chinese companies market access in exchange for them holding off any transfers (daam). Another can be providing weapons to Taiwan, Vietnam, Phillipines etc. (dand). False flag ops in East Turkestan/CPUC/AfPak.

We always have the option of targeting entire POK with long range arty fire and always stay one up on the escalation ladder.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby brar_w » 03 Jan 2019 02:32

The first and foremost thing to do when it comes to produce jam-resistant GPS even with OEM's who work with the owners of the GPS constellation is to start with mil code. Anti Jam GPS is something in which the US military invests heavily and is constantly improving both at the big picture level but also at the weapons level. That said, Pakistan is not going to have access to any of this so this leaves them with some potential commercial solutions not tapping into the mil grade stuff. So this is not really a big of a threat. The prospects of China selling them something that uses their constellation is probably a more realistic path.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby sudeepj » 03 Jan 2019 02:53

brar_w wrote:The first and foremost thing to do when it comes to produce jam-resistant GPS even with OEM's who work with the owners of the GPS constellation is to start with mil code. Anti Jam GPS is something in which the US military invests heavily and is constantly improving both at the big picture level but also at the weapons level. That said, Pakistan is not going to have access to any of this so this leaves them with some potential commercial solutions not tapping into the mil grade stuff. So this is not really a big of a threat. The prospects of China selling them something that uses their constellation is probably a more realistic path.


What I am telling you is, that there are many ways to make the civil GPS signal also jam resistant, thereby making ever more sophisticated and expensive jammers necessary. E.g. just by designing your antenna to receive signals higher in elevation, you can require your adversary to use an airborne jammer!

Further, if Indian Army starts using GPS jammers, we lose the GPS signal too! and Indian Army uses GPS heavily. Civil traffic uses GPS too. Keep in mind that NAVIC/IRNSS receivers are not widely available yet. Should an Indian post jam 24x7? Should it start jamming when it suspects an incoming attack? By then it might be too late..

There is no way to jam receivers on airborne munitions selectively, or jam just the PakMil receivers but not own receivers. On the other hand, it is easy to jam-harden receivers made for munitions use (Use MEMs INS, use signal processing techniques, use special antennas etc.).

Agree that Beidou is the logical route for PakMil if they want stuff that works in full on conflict mode. GPS may be OK and may even be desirable for one offs and low level conflict.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby brar_w » 03 Jan 2019 02:58

What I am telling you is, that there are many ways to make the civil GPS signal also jam resistant, thereby making ever more sophisticated and expensive jammers necessary. E.g. just by designing your antenna to receive signals higher in elevation, you can require your adversary to use an airborne jammer!


What I'm trying to convey to you is that assured GPS survivability or at least a high cost to mitigate is something best done by using the Mil grade capability as a very baseline. Similarly a lot of the mil-grade GPS anti jam technology would also be prohibited given Pakistan's close proximity to Pakistan so that too is a dead end and an area where they would have to invest their own R&D money to develop solutions. You need to lock that in before you go in and begin investing a ton of money on Precision Guided Munitions right down to the level of Mortars especially if you are debt ridden Pakistan and have a low threshold to take a lot of financial risk. If you don't you are just painting a big fat target on your back and inviting the enemy to pursue counter Civilian-GPS technology to mitigate a boatload of your investment.

Given how much is spent by Mil code GPS users to protect GPS capability amidst high end jamming one can only imagine how much you'd need to invest in something that at baseline is not as capable.

Further, if Indian Army starts using GPS jammers, we lose the GPS signal too! and Indian Army uses GPS heavily. Civil traffic uses GPS too. Keep in mind that NAVIC/IRNSS receivers are not widely available yet. Should an Indian post jam 24x7? Should it start jamming when it suspects an incoming attack? By then it might be too late..


Yes, there would be doctrinal and TTP related issues but here I assume that neither the decision from the Pakis to involve Civilian GPS heavily into their PGM weapons nor India's response to mitigate this advantage will happen overnight. It will likely be process and transition that takes several years if not well more than a decade to put out in quantity giving plenty of time to take measures to protect a defensive advantage.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby sudeepj » 03 Jan 2019 03:43

brar_w wrote:
What I am telling you is, that there are many ways to make the civil GPS signal also jam resistant, thereby making ever more sophisticated and expensive jammers necessary. E.g. just by designing your antenna to receive signals higher in elevation, you can require your adversary to use an airborne jammer!


What I'm trying to convey to you is that assured GPS survivability or at least a high cost to mitigate is something best done by using the Mil grade capability as a very baseline.


True, Mil grade signal is much much harder to jam, but even small tweaks to the civil receiver can make it harder and more expensive for the defender and the costs are completely asymmetrical, especially in low intensity conflict situations.

If we are going for WW 3 or even a proper conflict between peer states, sure mil grade is the only thing that can be expected to last a few hours or a few days. For LOC arty/mortar duels, you must assume that civil GPS signal will be available.. Completely unlike say a shooting war between Iraq-US, taliban-US, China-US etc.

brar_w wrote:Similarly a lot of the mil-grade GPS anti jam technology would also be prohibited given Pakistan's close proximity to Pakistan so that too is a dead end and an area where they would have to invest their own R&D money to develop solutions. You need to lock that in before you go in and begin investing a ton of money on Precision Guided Munitions right down to the level of Mortars especially if you are debt ridden Pakistan and have a low threshold to take a lot of financial risk. If you don't you are just painting a big fat target on your back and inviting the enemy to pursue counter Civilian-GPS technology to mitigate a boatload of your investment.

Given how much is spent by Mil code GPS users to protect GPS capability amidst high end jamming one can only imagine how much you'd need to invest in something that at baseline is not as capable.


You are thinking like the US mil planning for WW III. Why does it have to be a tonne of money? Why cant Pak procure several hundred or two thousand GPS guided mortar rounds and inflict heavy casualties on Indian army? At (say) $50,000 a pop, the cost is "only" $50 million and there are no easy counters to this. India cant jam GPS 24x7, cant jam without degrading own capability, patrols/posts etc. will all be vulnerable to one off hit and run precision strikes...

Pardon the levity.. but for PakMil, its a bit like finding a Dishka in the bone yards of Afghanistan and firing it off in the general direction of the Kafir.. US Mil will require a proper accounting be done for the life cycle costs of the Dishka and declare that to be a totally suboptimal solution.. The rounds are too heavy and much too strong for desired use, the equipment itself is inaccurate, too heavy for man portable use, too light for mounted use, cost to switch, training ....

Meanwhile, the insurgent has fired off all the rounds that he found with the Dishka and is off effing his goat or whatever. And the US enlisted man is waving a slip of paper saying that the Dishka is a completely inappropriate weapon for fighting a war in Afghanistan.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby kit » 03 Jan 2019 04:08

sudeepj wrote:
brar_w wrote:
What I'm trying to convey to you is that assured GPS survivability or at least a high cost to mitigate is something best done by using the Mil grade capability as a very baseline.


True, Mil grade signal is much much harder to jam, but even small tweaks to the civil receiver can make it harder and more expensive for the defender and the costs are completely asymmetrical, especially in low intensity conflict situations.

If we are going for WW 3 or even a proper conflict between peer states, sure mil grade is the only thing that can be expected to last a few hours or a few days. For LOC arty/mortar duels, you must assume that civil GPS signal will be available.. Completely unlike say a shooting war between Iraq-US, taliban-US, China-US etc.

brar_w wrote:Similarly a lot of the mil-grade GPS anti jam technology would also be prohibited given Pakistan's close proximity to Pakistan so that too is a dead end and an area where they would have to invest their own R&D money to develop solutions. You need to lock that in before you go in and begin investing a ton of money on Precision Guided Munitions right down to the level of Mortars especially if you are debt ridden Pakistan and have a low threshold to take a lot of financial risk. If you don't you are just painting a big fat target on your back and inviting the enemy to pursue counter Civilian-GPS technology to mitigate a boatload of your investment.

Given how much is spent by Mil code GPS users to protect GPS capability amidst high end jamming one can only imagine how much you'd need to invest in something that at baseline is not as capable.


You are thinking like the US mil planning for WW III. Why does it have to be a tonne of money? Why cant Pak procure several hundred or two thousand GPS guided mortar rounds and inflict heavy casualties on Indian army? At (say) $50,000 a pop, the cost is "only" $50 million and there are no easy counters to this. India cant jam GPS 24x7, cant jam without degrading own capability, patrols/posts etc. will all be vulnerable to one off hit and run precision strikes...

Pardon the levity.. but for PakMil, its a bit like finding a Dishka in the bone yards of Afghanistan and firing it off in the general direction of the Kafir.. US Mil will require a proper accounting be done for the life cycle costs of the Dishka and declare that to be a totally suboptimal solution.. The rounds are too heavy and much too strong for desired use, the equipment itself is inaccurate, too heavy for man portable use, too light for mounted use, cost to switch, training ....

Meanwhile, the insurgent has fired off all the rounds that he found with the Dishka and is off effing his goat or whatever. And the US enlisted man is waving a slip of paper saying that the Dishka is a completely inappropriate weapon for fighting a war in Afghanistan.


thats their plan for 2019 ..escalate all along the border upto 4 km depth..

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby brar_w » 03 Jan 2019 04:10

sudeepj wrote:True, Mil grade signal is much much harder to jam, but even small tweaks to the civil receiver can make it harder and more expensive for the defender and the costs are completely asymmetrical, especially in low intensity conflict situations.


Fighting with GPS and PGM's that utilize the constellation goes far beyond buying some kit. It is a much larger investment across your offensive and defensive enterprise, your networks, and your cyber and defensive capability and has much broader implications on your TTP's and your training. If you are looking to make that investment, particularly if you are a debt ridden nation you better be sure that the cost you are imposing will be significant and that you can utilize this capability at multiple levels and in multiple possible conflict scenarios so that you are maximizing your return on investment.

sudeepj wrote:Why cant Pak procure several hundred or two thousand GPS guided mortar rounds and inflict heavy casualties on Indian army? At (say) $50,000 a pop, the cost is "only" $50 million and there are no easy counters to this. India cant jam GPS 24x7, cant jam without degrading own capability, patrols/posts etc. will all be vulnerable to one off hit and run precision strikes...


Many assumptions here. First you assume that Pakistan will be sold Civilian GPS guided Mortars by the West when only a handful firms in Europe, Israel and the US have those products on offer, and only a handful of those who have them on offer actually have the products in rate production. Secondly, you assume that the capability acquired will automatically be effective against anything the Indian Military has in terms of denial capability to begin with.

Then you assume that pakistan would be able to harden their commercial non mil-grade GPS to a point where it requires massive investment to counter. On the flip side, I look at the cost the US and other European GPS users are spending to develop and iteratively field more and more Jam resistant GPS munitions and see no way that a poor nation, neck deep in debt can continue to protect its civilian-GPS capability from attack and jamming against an opponent who has many times deeper pockets and technical capability.

The only long term, realistic and effective option for them is to do so via China and tapping into their constellation.

sudeepj wrote:If we are going for WW 3 or even a proper conflict between peer states, sure mil grade is the only thing that can be expected to last a few hours or a few days. For LOC arty/mortar duels, you must assume that civil GPS signal will be available.. Completely unlike say a shooting war between Iraq-US, taliban-US, China-US etc.


That is a doctrinal and tactical decision. The moment commercial grade GPS begins to become a threat at the LOC and the threat escalates beyond nuisance then the case to counter the threat becomes stronger. Use it a handful of times and get away with it but use it long enough and it will be jammed and adequates alternatives fielded to mitigate any loss of organic capability. Such a move will effectively remove the GPS option from pakistan across their Military applications.

anupmisra
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby anupmisra » 04 Jan 2019 23:45

Liars!

Army inducts indigenously developed A-100 rocket to its arsenal

The military on Friday announced that it has inducted an indigenously developed A-100 rocket as part of its Multiple Launch Rocket System of the artillery corps.
Speaking on the occasion, the army chief paid "rich tributes to scientists and engineers for indigenously developing [the] A-100 Rocket which shall augment the existing conventional firepower capabilities of Pakistan Army".


I guess, army liar-in-chief meant "ingeniously painting the rocket green".

A-100 MRL

The A-100 is a 300 mm, 10-tube multiple rocket launcher developed by Beijing-based China Academy of Launch Vehicle Technology (CALT, also known as 1st Space Academy) for the Chinese PLA ground forces. It is a derivative of Weishi Rockets WS-1 with simple cascade terminal inertial guidance.
Although the system resembles the Russian Smerch 9K58 300 mm rocket system, it is not a copy of the Smerch as previously speculated. The A-100 rocket is fitted with a simple guidance system for greater accuracy.
Unconfirmed reports suggest that Pakistan has the capability to manufacture these weapons
Failed trials: China - People's Liberation Army - The A-100 MRL was trialed by the PLA in 2002; however the PHL03 was selected.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-100_MRL
https://www.dawn.com/news/1455467/army- ... ts-arsenal

ArjunPandit
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby ArjunPandit » 05 Jan 2019 01:30

^^Their strategy to improve accuracy is simple, they would not point at the target

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Khalsa » 05 Jan 2019 03:03

the army chief paid "rich tributes to scientists and engineers for indigenously developing [the] A-100 Rocket

I love this bit. Just love it.

anupmisra
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby anupmisra » 05 Jan 2019 04:08

Khalsa wrote:the army chief paid "rich tributes to scientists and engineers for indigenously developing [the] A-100 Rocket

I love this bit. Just love it.


ingeniously developing painting [the] A-100 Rocket.

There! Corrected it.


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