Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

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Aditya_V
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 18 May 2019 11:13

ashbhee wrote:This Pakistani dare to speak the truth. I hope and pray his family is safe back in Pakistan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcirDrcXQEw


Really, this is a negotiating tactic, many Pakis say this. If a Paki says the truth like F-16 went down and IAF strikes were sucessful in Balakot, he is then in trouble.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby dhyana » 19 May 2019 14:24

Pakistan Air Force moves into former Islamabad airport [Janes]
The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has taken over Islamabad's former Benazir Bhutto International Airport, located on the outskirts of the adjacent city of Rawalpindi.


The large apron is now home to No 10 Squadron's four Il-78 multirole tanker transport aircraft...

Pakistan Receiving IL-78 Refueling aircraft [Defense Industry Daily]

Honestly, never knew that the PAF had these refueling aircraft. Speaks to the 'relative' dismal state of our own refueling capacity if we have only 6 of these aircraft, having to defend against both PAF/PLAAF. Perhaps in the quest for the perfect (A330 MRTT), the IAF has missed out on the good (more IL-78)?

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 19 May 2019 22:32

Only issue is JF17 still does have arefueling probe, not compatible with F16's . Mirage III/V and F-7 dont have refueling capabilty. So what are those Il78 doing?

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Mollick.R » 20 May 2019 00:57

dhyana wrote:Pakistan Air Force moves into former Islamabad airport [Janes]
The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has taken over Islamabad's former Benazir Bhutto International Airport, located on the outskirts of the adjacent city of Rawalpindi.


Another long term prime real estate grab scheme for the uniformed jihadis.....
Slowly2 they will take out chunk of lands for parks then libraries then Fauzi colonies.
Corner plots will go to the most powerful uniformed jihadis

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby NRao » 20 May 2019 05:34

dhyana wrote:
The large apron is now home to No 10 Squadron's four Il-78 multirole tanker transport aircraft...

Pakistan Receiving IL-78 Refueling aircraft [Defense Industry Daily]

Honestly, never knew that the PAF had these refueling aircraft. Speaks to the 'relative' dismal state of our own refueling capacity if we have only 6 of these aircraft, having to defend against both PAF/PLAAF. Perhaps in the quest for the perfect (A330 MRTT), the IAF has missed out on the good (more IL-78)?


That article is from 2008?

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby dhyana » 20 May 2019 06:55

NRao said
That article is from 2008?


Yeah, should have clarified that in my post. After reading the first article regarding PAF taking over the airport, looked around for further confirmation that PAF indeed has these tankers. That article was one of the source articles from Wiki.

Looking a bit further into this, there are these 'sources':

PAF Air to Air refueling capacity (Pak Def Forum)

PAF Wallpaper website
Thunders & IL-78 :
Two JF-17s flying with IL-78 refueler. The first IL-78 refueler joined PAF in Nov 2009, earlier a Ukrainian IL-76MD was loaned by PAF to do initial training and conversion on the aircraft. Pakistan Air Force has purchased a total of 4 IL-78P Midas tanker aircraft have from the Ukraine. These aircrafts are equipped with Soviet-designed UPAZs pods and refueling kits on Mirage-III Rose-I is of South African origin. In first stage PAF has announced that 30 Mirage-III Rose-I will be upgraded with in-flight refueling probes and this too is being done at PAC kamra.

The IL-78s will give the PAF its first airborne refueling capability. They will help train Pakistani crews in mid-air refueling techniques, and once operational will be used to refuel the Mirage-III, eventually JF-17 Thunder.


So, if true, then old news, and probably just news to me.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby MeshaVishwas » 20 May 2019 15:00

First 2300 Ton Corvette For Pakistan Navy Launched By DAMEN Shipyard, Romania
https://www.defenseworld.net/news/24809/First_2300_ton_Corvette_for_Pakistan_Navy_Launched_by_DAMEN_Shipyard__Romania#.XOJvprdN0QY
The first ship is expected to join the Pakistan Navy by end of this year and the second would be delivered by mid-2020. The contract for their manufacture was signed in 2017, Pakistan media reported.

Impressive timeline for construction.
Any ideas on the weapons fit?

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya G » 20 May 2019 16:25

Pakistan Navy is doing very well .... Especially with 8 SSKs coming up as well

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby ArjunPandit » 20 May 2019 16:32

^^with such a small airspace, why does pakistan need refuellers?

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Karan M » 20 May 2019 16:38

Loiter on CAP and also deep strikes into India, top up on way in and when returning.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby souravB » 20 May 2019 16:44

^^tells something about the range of bunder in a bombing run, isn't it?

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Karan M » 20 May 2019 16:50

yes, thats the issue with relying on light fighters to do a medium/heavy's role. they require more and more supporting assets which too are vulnerable to interdiction.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby MeshaVishwas » 21 May 2019 12:27


Aditya_V
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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 21 May 2019 13:13

In the recent stand off PN came off badly with only 1 operational Sub, so this firing on 23 May 19 is supposed to be some sort off warning to IN not to take off too lightly

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 21 May 2019 13:26

MeshaVishwas wrote:First 2300 Ton Corvette For Pakistan Navy Launched By DAMEN Shipyard, Romania
https://www.defenseworld.net/news/24809/First_2300_ton_Corvette_for_Pakistan_Navy_Launched_by_DAMEN_Shipyard__Romania#.XOJvprdN0QY
The first ship is expected to join the Pakistan Navy by end of this year and the second would be delivered by mid-2020. The contract for their manufacture was signed in 2017, Pakistan media reported.

Impressive timeline for construction.
Any ideas on the weapons fit?


Err I think it is an OPV,

https://navaltoday.com/2019/05/17/damen-launches-first-pakistan-navy-opv-in-romania/

While the navy refers to them as corvettes, the two vessels built by Dutch shipbuilder Damen are based on the company’s OPV designs.


L&T pumps out Vikram class OPV's with similair speed, a navy must be really desperate to call an OPV as a corvette

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby MeshaVishwas » 21 May 2019 13:45

Aditya_V wrote:
MeshaVishwas wrote:First 2300 Ton Corvette For Pakistan Navy Launched By DAMEN Shipyard, Romania
https://www.defenseworld.net/news/24809/First_2300_ton_Corvette_for_Pakistan_Navy_Launched_by_DAMEN_Shipyard__Romania#.XOJvprdN0QY

Impressive timeline for construction.
Any ideas on the weapons fit?


Err I think it is an OPV,

https://navaltoday.com/2019/05/17/damen-launches-first-pakistan-navy-opv-in-romania/

While the navy refers to them as corvettes, the two vessels built by Dutch shipbuilder Damen are based on the company’s OPV designs.


L&T pumps out Vikram class OPV's with similair speed, a navy must be really desperate to call an OPV as a corvette

:lol:
They call their Frigates as Destroyers too.
Pakistan Navy (PN) destroyers demonstrated their firepower (missile firing skills) in the North Arabian Sea during the culmination of the sea phase of Seaspark-18 exercise on Friday.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1443238


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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby chola » 21 May 2019 14:20

Kakarat wrote:https://products.damen.com/en/ranges/offshore-patrol-vessel/offshore-patrol-vessel-2400

Image


Romania? Do they even have a shoreline? That said, the design looks nice.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 21 May 2019 14:32

Its a Dutch design and dutch company with a subsidiary along Romania's Black sea shoreline, probably will be rebadged with Turkish name and sold to Pak
From Damen website Weaponary is 1 main gun upto 76mm, secondary guns can be added with UAV or USV, has side scan sonar. There is Hanger for a Helicopter, so Helicopter has to land and take off in Fair weather, can stick to the ship as no where to be placed in rough weather.
Last edited by Aditya_V on 21 May 2019 14:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby chola » 21 May 2019 14:34

MeshaVishwas wrote: :lol:
They call their Frigates as Destroyers too.
Pakistan Navy (PN) destroyers demonstrated their firepower (missile firing skills) in the North Arabian Sea during the culmination of the sea phase of Seaspark-18 exercise on Friday.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1443238


LoL. Our Shivalik and future 17A are destroyer sized but we call them frigates.

@Aditya, thanks for the info!

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby chola » 22 May 2019 14:51

https://thediplomat.com/2019/05/china-overhauls-pakistan-air-force-jf-17-fighter-jet/


Yup, the chinis just told the world that Pakis can't even overhaul the Blunder they are supposedly manufacturing. :rotfl:

China Overhauls Pakistan Air Force JF-17 Fighter Jet
The fighter aircraft was reportedly returned to the Pakistan Air Force in March.

By Franz-Stefan Gady
May 22, 2019

China has reportedly overhauled a Pakistan Aeronautical Complex/Chengdu Aerospace Corporation (PAC/CAC) JF-17 “Thunder” Block I multirole fighter jet of the Pakistan Air Force in March, according to media reports.

Citing a report by China Aviation News, the website Defense World.Net states that the overhaul of the aircraft was carried out by Changsha 5712 Aircraft Industry Company, a subsidiary of the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC). The refit of the JF-17 was reportedly completed in March of this year.


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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 22 May 2019 15:59

chola wrote:https://thediplomat.com/2019/05/china-overhauls-pakistan-air-force-jf-17-fighter-jet/


Yup, the chinis just told the world that Pakis can't even overhaul the Blunder they are supposedly manufacturing. :rotfl:

China Overhauls Pakistan Air Force JF-17 Fighter Jet
The fighter aircraft was reportedly returned to the Pakistan Air Force in March.

By Franz-Stefan Gady
May 22, 2019

China has reportedly overhauled a Pakistan Aeronautical Complex/Chengdu Aerospace Corporation (PAC/CAC) JF-17 “Thunder” Block I multirole fighter jet of the Pakistan Air Force in March, according to media reports.

Citing a report by China Aviation News, the website Defense World.Net states that the overhaul of the aircraft was carried out by Changsha 5712 Aircraft Industry Company, a subsidiary of the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC). The refit of the JF-17 was reportedly completed in March of this year.



Plus it would not be more 10 years since induction, so MTBF is very poor and extra flying post Balakot has further put PAF in a soup

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby MeshaVishwas » 23 May 2019 11:47

Successful training launch of surface to surface ballistic missile Shaheen-II conducted. Capable of carrying both conventional & nuclear warheads upto a range of 1500 KMs. Shaheen-II fully meets Pak’s strat needs towards maintenance of desired deterrence stability in the region.

From As if Duffer.
Interesting timing.
I deduce a severe Shalwar browning behind the test.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Khalsa » 23 May 2019 14:24

Its a thinly veiled message to India/BJP/Modi that endorsement at home does not equal Pakistan being a pushover. They are nervous about the return of the right and are marking territory.

Unfortunately their Nuclear bluff has been called, lets carry on and bash them regardless.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby chola » 23 May 2019 15:10

^^^ The key is acting with overwhelming force to show that the Nuclear Bluff is actually a bluff.

But when you have 230 MKIs which outrange anything the pakis have and you allow nothing but piecemeal actions to take place so they can soil the narrative with their sh1t version of the event then we really haven't called their bluff. Sorry.

After their strike was detected on Feb 27th, we should have gone in with waves. We should have went after all 50 or so F-Solahs they have operational and annihilated them. Having a single courageous Tamil killing a F-16 does not replace a proper response from a overwhelmingly powerful IAF that should have crushed the pakis.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby khan » 23 May 2019 17:45

chola wrote:^^^ The key is acting with overwhelming force to show that the Nuclear Bluff is actually a bluff.

But when you have 230 MKIs which outrange anything the pakis have and you allow nothing but piecemeal actions to take place so they can soil the narrative with their sh1t version of the event then we really haven't called their bluff. Sorry.

After their strike was detected on Feb 27th, we should have gone in with waves. We should have went after all 50 or so F-Solahs they have operational and annihilated them. Having a single courageous Tamil killing a F-16 does not replace a proper response from a overwhelmingly powerful IAF that should have crushed the pakis.


Couple of things:

1. Hindsight is always 20/20.
2. They had Wing Commander Abhinandan & India wanted him back. Once he was back, the moment was passed. If he had not been caught on the other hand, I suspect the response would have been savage.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Sid » 24 May 2019 06:49

khan wrote:Couple of things:

1. Hindsight is always 20/20.
2. They had Wing Commander Abhinandan & India wanted him back. Once he was back, the moment was passed. If he had not been caught on the other hand, I suspect the response would have been savage.


Second point is really the key. In a way Abhinandan's capture prevented whole situation from going out of control, and gave some pause to situation.

But on the other hand, one wonders why no counter strikes were undertaken given the gravity of response from PAF with PoW or no PoW.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Karan M » 24 May 2019 07:06

You guys are assuming we wanted a war. We didn't, the GOI didn't anyhow. Unless allowed to go "all out" limited conflicts rarely serve a proper purpose when they occur in a limited theater of ops, where the PAF could have surged its assets to compensate.

We wanted to hit the terrorists, cause heavy casualties and then stop short of provoking a conflict, so as to reiterate this is the new normal. We hit within Pak, and they take it, without a full blown war occurring and the international community getting spooked.

Hence its in our interest to keep pushing the line forwards and constantly needling, hurting Pakistan without a full blown war breaking out.

Imagine investors today, war could break out in Indo-Pak, noookelear war. Tomorrow, India-Pak keep squabbling but nothing comes of it, over the past years they have had many skirmishes, this is "normal".

In a tacit way, we would have enforced a new redline. We keep hitting Pak as we want, without Pak being able to bring the nuclear overhang into play.

We only have a war if it is on our terms, i.e. we are fully prepped for it. All those Rafales, LCAs, MMRCAs, S-4XX, AWACS are in service & full supply of weapons etc is in place. Our HUMINT is in place to deal with the nuke-angle and enough assets are there to do TEL busting and so forth. Our MEA, MOF script is all in place etc.

Then we have a decisive conflict on our terms which we dominate even if it escalates.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby khan » 24 May 2019 07:30

Sid wrote:...Second point is really the key...


I think my first point about hindsight is actually more important.

India had no way to know how Pakistan would respond & was caught off guard by (among other things):
1. The speed of the response (next day)
2. The size & composition of the package (obsolete planes playing the role of decoys)
3. Their tactics - for eg firing BVR’s at max range.

Next time, if PAF does this again, IAF will know what to expect & the response will be different.

For eg, instead of attacking the F-16, IAF could send a couple of SU-30’s after the JF-17, old mirages & slaughter them in a turkey shoot, or have a squadron of SU-30’s hunt down the F-16’s in their own territory, or fire SAM’s at them (whatever is available - even if they are obsolete).

Basically, the Rules of Engagement will be updated from the lessons learnt.

So, to me, the biggest reason PAF managed to get away with this, is because of the lack of experience of IAF & Govt of India in dealing with this type of situation, where everything had to be analyzed and re-thought. Next time, the lessons learnt will be Standard Operating Procedure - and I suspect PAF will suffer heavy losses for such an adventure.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby chola » 24 May 2019 11:18

khan wrote:
chola wrote:^^^ The key is acting with overwhelming force to show that the Nuclear Bluff is actually a bluff.

But when you have 230 MKIs which outrange anything the pakis have and you allow nothing but piecemeal actions to take place so they can soil the narrative with their sh1t version of the event then we really haven't called their bluff. Sorry.

After their strike was detected on Feb 27th, we should have gone in with waves. We should have went after all 50 or so F-Solahs they have operational and annihilated them. Having a single courageous Tamil killing a F-16 does not replace a proper response from a overwhelmingly powerful IAF that should have crushed the pakis.


Couple of things:

1. Hindsight is always 20/20.
2. They had Wing Commander Abhinandan & India wanted him back. Once he was back, the moment was passed. If he had not been caught on the other hand, I suspect the response would have been savage.


Yes, hindsight is 20/20. And fuming anger reading paki chit on twitter could be clouding my judgement.

But to be perfect honest, a single prisoner should not have held us back. Wheels of retribution should have been set in motion when the Paki package was initially discovered by our AEW not when Abhi was shot down anyways.

Just an opinion.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Aditya G » 24 May 2019 11:25

At some point the thought process will have to be revealed by IAF air Marshals.... At the moment I find KaranMs explanation as correct. The political leadership would have wanted to contain the situation, not flare it up.

Question is whether we will be keen to send IAF again in near future.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby ArjunPandit » 24 May 2019 16:26

khan wrote:
Sid wrote:So, to me, the biggest reason PAF managed to get away with this, is because of the lack of experience of IAF & Govt of India in dealing with this type of situation, where everything had to be analyzed and re-thought. Next time, the lessons learnt will be Standard Operating Procedure - and I suspect PAF will suffer heavy losses for such an adventure.


Prima facie yes, also if i look deeper, my thought process is that the govt is working "giving peace a chance". Uri, Balakot are just piece by piece moves towards that end.
I didnt post it at that time but got to hear from my many relatives in areas closer to border what was happening in our airspace, esp in nights after pulwama and after balakot. RoE would be updated. But until we go in all out. We will have to live with this. Govt is going by what great Zia ul haq said,
"we should keep the pot boiling, but not boil the pot".
Pakis get a false sense of confidence of stopping endians and military knows they have to spend more. Either ways wrong for them. The next level will be more bloody, but again will not be all out.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Manmohan » 25 May 2019 23:29

Khalsa wrote:Its a thinly veiled message to India/BJP/Modi that endorsement at home does not equal Pakistan being a pushover. They are nervous about the return of the right and are marking territory.

Unfortunately their Nuclear bluff has been called, lets carry on and bash them regardless.


Additionally, some Pakistanis are also mentioning that the day of the missile test was the 17th of Ramzan - the day when the battle of Badr was fought!

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Khalsa » 26 May 2019 14:31

and i would disprove that assertion the moment we go back to how many tests were done on that date in the yesteryears.
Forget my above.... after Ramazan ... why do you need to test a Nuclear missile...

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby nam » 26 May 2019 17:49

chola wrote:But when you have 230 MKIs which outrange anything the pakis have and you allow nothing but piecemeal actions to take place so they can soil the narrative with their sh1t version of the event then we really haven't called their bluff. Sorry.

After their strike was detected on Feb 27th, we should have gone in with waves. We should have went after all 50 or so F-Solahs they have operational and annihilated them. Having a single courageous Tamil killing a F-16 does not replace a proper response from a overwhelmingly powerful IAF that should have crushed the pakis.


The issue is such an action will make for great TV, but will not solve the Pak problem. We knock off their solahs, another decade, they will have equal number of solahs or J-twenties or thirties.. We are back to square one, needing another war.

Need to recognize that It is an attrition war, which has no end. 71 did not end it, 2019/2020 will not end it. We need to carry out attrition with minimum losses for us. Pak should become our Gaza strip..real life training grounds for our forces.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Prithwiraj » 26 May 2019 18:38

Politically it would have been a big gamble for Modi to escalate the war further... so close to general election-- given it was more of a reactionary response on Balakot--- not sure we had the preparation to run a full scale war in-terms troops movement, ammunition, fuel, logistics. Short term it could have really backfired and cost him a second chance back to power. I think we crossed a line for the first time and proved a point. Even Pakistanis know their next day response with 24 fighters package is not scalable and can not be repeated. We learnt a lot from Balakot on our rules of engagement, gaps, strategies to counter future Pakistani aggression. Hopefully we have identified gaps in-terms of long range air to air BVR missiles, networking ground air-defense batteries etc. This is the biggest takeaway for us.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby nam » 26 May 2019 18:47

What would the objective of a full scale war?

Capture Pak and feed their population with our money?

Destroy PA and set a civil war with millions of refugees flooding in to our Punjab?

Capture PoK and get in to another 50 years of insurgency? for a land to Afghanistan to sell wheat?

Pak is our badlands. We need a "governor"(PA) to control it, while whip the "governor" once a while to keep him in inline.

Despite putting in all the efforts to cause terror in India, the result is India 3 trillion GDP and Pak 200 billion beggar state. why do we want to change that?

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby abhik » 26 May 2019 21:55

Stripped of the bravado, how is what some of you saying much different from MMS - "War is not the solution onlee" - maybe he was ahead of the curve afterall? Not saying the answer is easy or simple.

If you escalate, but only to a certain extent (not take it to its logical conclusion) but you enemy match or even take it a notch higher, then this is a strategy that is bound to fail. If I put my Paki hat on, i'd be quite pleased with how things turned out - India responded to major terror attack with an air strike, i.e tit-for-tat (score 1-1), the paki respond with a major air strike of their own, they lose a fighter of their own and fail to hit any targets but cause loss of 2 at our side (score 1-1 or 2-1 in favour of the pakies depending on whose propagandu you choose to believe). In a way Balakot V1 was an experiment, but we are not going to see a repeat of this unless we have the stomach to escalate further.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby shalabh » 26 May 2019 22:29

abhik wrote:If I put my Paki hat on, i'd be quite pleased with how things turned out - India responded to major terror attack with an air strike, i.e tit-for-tat (score 1-1), the paki respond with a major air strike of their own, they lose a fighter of their own and fail to hit any targets but cause loss of 2 at our side (score 1-1 or 2-1 in favour of the pakies depending on whose propagandu you choose to believe).


I disagree and beg to differ. We cannot see this with a narrow lens. Any successful military action serves a bigger purpose. This episode has for sure changed the narrative. Bakistan can be sure in future (at least until we have Modi at the helm) that any major instigation by way of terrorist attacks will be met by an Indian response. The response will be well calibrated, and inflict real damage to Bakistan's assets and the military persona. As the balance of military power tilts more and more towards India in next few years, it will be more damaging and harder for Bakistan to respond and more likely for them to lose face. This will be proved in the coming years. If there are fewer large scale attacks, it can be attributed to our response post Pulwama. If there are more attacks, we should see similar military duels and increasingly more favorable to Indian Armed Forces.

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Re: Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion Thread

Postby Karan M » 26 May 2019 23:00

After Myanmar, we are not Myanmar! We are noo-cooo-lear power!
After Uri, you can't do this to us! It was a one-off! We let it happen! It never happened! We are nooo-coo-lear power!
After another cross-border raid. Lets not talk about it, it never happened! But BAT team gets ambushed and brutalized by SF raid.
After Balakote. You hit trees and stones, we shot down half your AF, but lets talk peace, we will pull our artillery back! And no missiles please!
Musharraf - guys dont talk nukes, Indians have more!

LOL. If some people think Pakistan is pleased at how things have turned out, I'd suggest they have spent too much time with Pakistanis or imbibed their favorite zam zam cola ex-import. Because Pakistan's favorite noo-coo-lear power and redlines are as the Air Chief says.

“It is there in front of you (Pakistan), but you don’t want to see it...I can only recall Dylan, ‘And how many times can a man turn his head, and pretend that he just doesn’t see; the answer, my friend, is blowin’ in the wind..,Dhanoa said, referring to the song, which was part of Dylan’s 1963 album, The Freewheeling Bob Dylan


And of course, our desi journos didn't look up the entire song.

It goes on to say:

Yes, 'n' how many deaths will it take till he knows
That too many people have died?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind


Balakote casualty count was substantial.


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