Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
V_Raman
BRFite
Posts: 1379
Joined: 04 Sep 2008 22:25

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by V_Raman »

Mahindra should release a consumer version of this - like Hummer - will be bada** 8)
Anujan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7806
Joined: 27 May 2007 03:55

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Anujan »

ashishvikas wrote:mahindra's LBPV & LSV are somewhat similar in looks.
^^^
More armor on side panel, windshield. Remote weapons station? Portholes for firing. Seems to be a modification
Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3565
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Aditya G »

LBPV has troop carrying ability unlike LSV
Atmavik
BRFite
Posts: 1985
Joined: 24 Aug 2016 04:43

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Atmavik »

V_Raman wrote:Mahindra should release a consumer version of this - like Hummer - will be bada** 8)
if u have a twitter account. tweet it to Anand Mahindra. this would be pretty cool
Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8428
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Indranil »

V_Raman wrote:Mahindra should release a consumer version of this - like Hummer - will be bada** 8)
A lot of people were looking for a civilian version of MAhindra Axe.
hnair
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4633
Joined: 03 May 2006 01:31
Location: Trivandrum

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by hnair »

In a mileage conscious country, this will be a very niche vehicle and might not be worth producing enmasse. Even a mileage-be-damned country like US, the military derived Hummer had to stop production and they had to come up with a more viable H2 etc.

But it will be one sweet vehicle to own for sure!
Atmavik
BRFite
Posts: 1985
Joined: 24 Aug 2016 04:43

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Atmavik »

^^ we are going off topic here but it would be great for marketing. Anand Mahindra gifted a few Thars to cricketers and Thar orders are thru the Roof.

btw does anyone know why on youtube these vehicles are marketed as Mahindra Emirates Vehicle Armouring. I know UAE first purchased a few LSVs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBcD-SvLZUc
srai
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5220
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by srai »

https://mobile.twitter.com/KUNALBI25146 ... 4640285700
KUNAL BISWAS
@KUNALBI25146617
My poster on +20 Indian BMP variants, hope to see a BM 21 variant too.. FireFlag of India
Image
jamwal
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5727
Joined: 19 Feb 2008 21:28
Location: Somewhere Else
Contact:

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by jamwal »

https://www.defenceaviationpost.com/202 ... k-leyland/

Indian Air Force Receives Delivery Of Made-In-India Light Bulletproof Vehicle Manufactured By Ashok Leyland
Ashok Leyland has completed the delivery of the first batch of light bulletproof vehicles (LBPV) to the Indian Air Force (IAF) on 13 April. The light bulletproof vehicle (LBPV) is an adaption of Lockheed Martin’s CVNG (common vehicle next-gen), the company said in a regulatory filing.
It has been developed under the transfer of technology (TOT) from Lockheed Martin to Ashok Leyland. It is entirely indigenised and developed in India, Ashok Leyland added in the statement. The Union government focuses on increasing local procurement of vehicles and other equipment for the armed forces to enhance local manufacturing under the Atmanirbhar Bharat mission.
Thakur_B
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2404
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »



Col. Danvir Chauhan (retd) explains how Mahindra ASLV shall be utlised - mostly as scout vehicles for armoured columns and infantry, sometimes with ATGMs to harrass targets of opputunity.
Manish_P
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5383
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

Love that last line - 'ATGM mod' :twisted:

May it have variants (heavy mortar carrier) and larger siblings (soft recoil 105 mm) soon...
Thakur_B
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2404
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Image

Force Gurkha buggy with Negev mount, in use with Para SF.
Nikhil_Naya
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 59
Joined: 06 Nov 2018 16:44

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Nikhil_Naya »

Thakur_B wrote:Force Gurkha buggy with Negev mount, in use with Para SF.
Is that the power cable for the winch? Running openly next to the bonnet? Why!!! Such a good TFTA vehicle and then they add this odd looking bit which wont probably hold as well!
Last edited by Rakesh on 25 Nov 2021 23:00, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Please do NOT requote pictures when replying. Post Edited.
k prasad
BRFite
Posts: 962
Joined: 21 Oct 2007 17:38
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow
Contact:

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by k prasad »

Nikhil_Naya wrote:
Thakur_B wrote: Force Gurkha buggy with Negev mount, in use with Para SF.
Is that the power cable for the winch? Running openly next to the bonnet? Why!!! Such a good TFTA vehicle and then they add this odd looking bit which wont probably hold as well!
The paras will be operating in small, independent teams. Having hardware that can perform multiple tasks is essential to operate in places where help from more specialized engineering vehicles isn't available. Not sure what your specific concern about this is, Nikhil, but i doubt that power winch is going to pull heavy loads. At most, it'll help pull another one of the buggies out of mud or sand, with both having power, but one without enough traction to get out.
brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10694
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by brar_w »

It is more likely to be a winch controller.
Nikhil_Naya
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 59
Joined: 06 Nov 2018 16:44

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Nikhil_Naya »

It’s probably the controller cable. That means the winch is a retrofit on field. The cable should be tied down or clamped to the bonnet area. In a situation where they are passing through brush/ trees that cable can be detached if it catches on something.

I do get that these are for the para-SF but that is where such things matter the most. Imagine a flailing cable when being helidropped or airdropped by parachute.
Maybe reading too much into it - maybe my OCD!
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

Nikhil_Naya wrote:It’s probably the controller cable. That means the winch is a retrofit on field. The cable should be tied down or clamped to the bonnet area. In a situation where they are passing through brush/ trees that cable can be detached if it catches on something.

I do get that these are for the para-SF but that is where such things matter the most. Imagine a flailing cable when being helidropped or airdropped by parachute.
Maybe reading too much into it - maybe my OCD!
Nikhil perhaps you should visit a inf bn MT. You will be apoplectic in no time
brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10694
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by brar_w »

Nikhil_Naya wrote:It’s probably the controller cable. That means the winch is a retrofit on field. The cable should be tied down or clamped to the bonnet area. In a situation where they are passing through brush/ trees that cable can be detached if it catches on something.
Or removed and simply kept inside the vehicle. They may have been demonstrating the winch right before this picture got clicked. If the winch isn't being used, the controller doesn't need to be plugged in and can be disconnected and tucked away.
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12187
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »



DRDO and BEML appears to have come up with a 8*8 utility vehicle.
Thakur_B
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2404
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »



Modified Scorpio inducted as Rakshak Plus. Very TFTA.
Thakur_B
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2404
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Image
Kalyani UGV during Indo Japanese exercise.
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12187
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

The army is looking to replace the Gypsy.

I have been trying to figure out what types of light vehicles the IA is using for what kinds of purpose. I have come up with the following list.

1) Gypsy light utility.
2) Force Gurkha
3) Mahindra striker
4) TATA sumo, for ambulance and other specialist employment.
5) TATA Safari storm for VIP transport.

I am thinking that the roles of Gypsy, Mahindra striker and Force Gurkha can be met by a single type of vehicle.

What would it be. Can it be a later day MAHINDRA AXE. A vehicle that is slightly larger than the first 3 vehicles in the list. But can also meet the roles of TATA Sumo.
srin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2508
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:13

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by srin »

^^^ I vaguely remember Kalyani M4 also being procured
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12187
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

srin wrote:^^^ I vaguely remember Kalyani M4 also being procured
I had deliberately left out M4 as it's a light armoured vehicle.

In my original post I was thinking in terms of light unarmoured vehicles. Which the army needs in 10s of thousands. Perhaps the vehicles can be standardized. I order to ease the logistics.
Thakur_B
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2404
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Pratyush ji, Gypsy had multiple roles, as light strike vehicle, general service vehicle and many others.

The roles have been split and individual procurement for each category is being carried out.
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

Thakur_B wrote:Pratyush ji, Gypsy had multiple roles, as light strike vehicle, general service vehicle and many others.

The roles have been split and individual procurement for each category is being carried out.
In an inf Bn in the 80s the sanctioned strength of vehicles like the jeep or Jonga was about 4-5 I think. The Co had two vehicles - one standby for when the No 1 Jonga was in repair or was in excess of its mileage.
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12187
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Thakur_B wrote:Pratyush ji, Gypsy had multiple roles, as light strike vehicle, general service vehicle and many others.

The roles have been split and individual procurement for each category is being carried out.
You are correct. However, with the phasing out of the Gypsy. I am thinking of the roles can be reassigned to a single type of vehicle to ease logistics and repairs burden.

Because having 4 types of vehicle's. 1 each from Mahindra and Force, while a third one is getting replaced, creates complexity which can be reduced by having a common type.

During periods of peace. This may not be a major issue. However, in times of major conflict, the ability to manage logistics will become an issue.

Note: it's possible for either Mahindra or force vehicle to replace the Gypsy. In which case we will still have 2 different vehicles in roles that can be met by a single type.
isubodh
BRFite
Posts: 175
Joined: 03 Oct 2008 18:23

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by isubodh »

Pratyush wrote:[

You are correct. However, with the phasing out of the Gypsy. I am thinking of the roles can be reassigned to a single type of vehicle to ease logistics and repairs burden.

Because having 4 types of vehicle's. 1 each from Mahindra and Force, while a third one is getting replaced, creates complexity which can be reduced
The number of these vehicles is quite high, so issue of logistics should not be that much.
But having single vehicle can have risks. What if vendor goes bankrupt, what if this leads single vendor.
Also the risk that any vulnerability of one type of vehicle if found would become serious issue, it's like putting all money in one stock and then just pray to the lord.
Diversification helps when numbers will be in 10 of thousands
putnanja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4665
Joined: 26 Mar 2002 12:31
Location: searching for the next al-qaida #3

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by putnanja »

They are looking for a soft-top vehicle to replace Gypsy. I wonder if M&M will offer a variant of their new Thar to the army.
YashG
BRFite
Posts: 936
Joined: 22 Apr 2017 00:10

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by YashG »

isubodh wrote:
Pratyush wrote:[

You are correct. However, with the phasing out of the Gypsy. I am thinking of the roles can be reassigned to a single type of vehicle to ease logistics and repairs burden.

Because having 4 types of vehicle's. 1 each from Mahindra and Force, while a third one is getting replaced, creates complexity which can be reduced
The number of these vehicles is quite high, so issue of logistics should not be that much.
But having single vehicle can have risks. What if vendor goes bankrupt, what if this leads single vendor.
Also the risk that any vulnerability of one type of vehicle if found would become serious issue, it's like putting all money in one stock and then just pray to the lord.
Diversification helps when numbers will be in 10 of thousands
This is a madeup argument. None of these companies are likely go bankrupt anymore than companies like dassault. There needs to be a better argument to justify multiple types.

But one reason here is that when u divide ur order across 4 companies - u develop private defence production capabilities across four companies. Also when all companies get orders, they have less to complain and nit-pick the procurement process on irregularities.
YashG
BRFite
Posts: 936
Joined: 22 Apr 2017 00:10

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by YashG »

Thakur_B wrote:Image
Kalyani UGV during Indo Japanese exercise.
A state of art UGV now is only an integration challenge. All technologies that will go into this are already available within Indian industry. I'm hopeful Kalyani will master this.
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12187
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

YashG wrote:
But one reason here is that when u divide ur order across 4 companies - u develop private defence production capabilities across four companies. Also when all companies get orders, they have less to complain and nit-pick the procurement process on irregularities.
The current procurement is for a derivative of an existing vehicle. So the civilian varient already is in production.

I am thinking about the program which resulted in the development of the HUMVEE specific to the US army. The program resulted in approximately 250000 for the service. While enjoying a nice civilian life as well.

I am thinking in terms of a program of similar scope. Which is why I had referred to a modern day AXE.
Thakur_B
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2404
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

There are thousands of gypsies to be replaced. Gypsy was a consumer vehicle adopted by military. Other tha Gurkha, Scorpio and Safari, all other vehicles are specialized military vehicles. Due to small scale production, the replacement cost is going to be massive.
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12187
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

What are the other vehicles being used as light unarmoured vehicles in the army.

Because I am only aware of Gypsy, Mahindra striker, Force Gurkha. Do we have a 4th vehicle in this category? ( I am ignoring Windy 505)

I remember the VFJ trying to replace the Jonga with an in-house design. But that was in early 90s. It did not enter production. Gypsy and Mahindra were used as Jonga replacement.

But is there another vehicle type?
Thakur_B
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2404
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

^^ It's not the vehicles being replaced but rather the replacement has been split into various categories.

Light strike vehicle - Force Gurkha unknown number, probably in thousands
Light specialist vehicle - Mahindra ALSV 1300 Nos, probably also in several thousands
General Service vehicle - Tata Safari Storme 1500 Nos probably final numbers would be in several thousands
Light Armoured vehicle ?
Light bullet proof vehicle?
God knows how many categories there are more and how many different makes would be ordered.
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12187
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Hmmm

Interesting, the propensity to build circuses in every category.

I would have wanted standardization of light vehicles. But it is what it is.
KSingh
BRFite
Posts: 504
Joined: 16 Jun 2020 17:52

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by KSingh »

Thakur_B wrote:^^ It's not the vehicles being replaced but rather the replacement has been split into various categories.

Light strike vehicle - Force Gurkha unknown number, probably in thousands
Light specialist vehicle - Mahindra ALSV 1300 Nos, probably also in several thousands
General Service vehicle - Tata Safari Storme 1500 Nos probably final numbers would be in several thousands
Light Armoured vehicle ?
Light bullet proof vehicle?
God knows how many categories there are more and how many different makes would be ordered.
Pretty sure they have ordered more than 3000 GS800s (Army Safari storme)

On top of that there is the Rakshak+ (armoured Scorpio ) being inducted, a few 100 looks like


Iirc there’s about 10,000 Gypsys in service in a large number of different roles so they are replacing them with specialist vehicles not just 1 type to replace 1 type. So at least 3 different types so far, maybe 1-2 new types on top of this are coming too (I feel like the TATA Merlin will get ordered for something at some point )

Apparently the Kaylani M4 has been ordered (27 units)

There also seems to be an open requirement for a light armoured bullet proof vehicle like the TATA LAMV
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

Pratyush wrote:Hmmm

Interesting, the propensity to build circuses in every category.

I would have wanted standardization of light vehicles. But it is what it is.
You cannot I think.

The range of use cases is quite wide. Para SF in the desert need a light vehicle that can operate well there but the design considerations for that would not be optimal for Brigade Commanded of 112 Mountain Bridage to drive to his tactical locations (9K ft to around 15 16K ft).

You could end up with comprimises that results in a vehicle which is a dhobi ka kutta.

Even if you look at armour protected vehicles - You may need smaller vehicles for RR (urban environment) while requirements in more fwd areas could be different.
jaysimha
BRFite
Posts: 1696
Joined: 20 Dec 2017 14:30

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by jaysimha »

ASHOK LEYLAND SELECTS LOCKHEED MARTIN FOR DEFENCE VEHICLE PROGRAMMES
Mar 22 2016


https://www.motownindia.com/Bureau/Comm ... dia-Bureau
srin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2508
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:13

Re: Military Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by srin »

https://defenceaviationpost.com/bharat- ... dian-army/
General MM Naravane, the Chief of Army Staff, inducted indigenously developed specialty vehicles into the army on Tuesday. The Quick Reaction Fighting Vehicle Medium (QRFV), Infantry Protected Mobility Vehicle (IPMV), Ultra Long Range Observation System (ULROS) developed by Tata Advanced System Limited (TASL), and Monocoque Hull Multi Role Mine Protected Armoured Vehicle developed by Bharat Forge were the first indigenously developed vehicles.

General MM Naravane is in Pune for a two-day visit with Vice Chief of Army Staff Lieutenant General Manoj Pande. The Army Chief inducted the first set of indigenously developed Quick Reaction Fighting Vehicle Medium (QRFV), Infantry Protected Mobility Vehicle (IPMV), Ultra Long Range Observation System developed by Tata Advanced System Limited (TASL), and Monocoque Hull Multi Role Mine Protected Armoured Vehicle developed by Bharat Forge at a function held at the Bombay Engineer Group (BEG) and Centre today,” according to an official release.
...
From what I can make out ...
IPMV = Whap
Monocoque Mine protected vehicle = Kalyani M4
QRFV = ?
ULROS = ?
Post Reply