Operational Art or War Doctrine

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brar_w
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Re: Operational Art or War Doctrine

Postby brar_w » 13 Jan 2018 08:22

With France it is also as much about maintaining the design and development comptencies across the A&D strategic areas that is very costly. To maintain those that have had to take a step back and pursue their own path which becomes very costly and requires other capabilities to be traded off to pay for it. The Rafale is a good recent example but many other smaller ones exist across its military programs. If it has a good strategic side it also has a negative economic one.

ramana
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Re: Operational Art or War Doctrine

Postby ramana » 13 Jan 2018 11:28

Shiv, Thanks for posting as even UK got constrained by American art of war.

Something for India to ponder with all those four and five letter agreements US wants to push.



This is a problem because, Desportes insists, numbers matter and most conflicts require controlling space rather than simply locating and attacking the enemy. Controlling space requires “volume.” The result is a French military that can prevail in a battle but cannot win a war.



very insightful profound statement.

Operation Riddle in 1965 was not effective as there was not enough volume for Indian forces. I analyzed this in the 1965 war thread.

Same with Western front on 1971 war.

ramana
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Re: Operational Art or War Doctrine

Postby ramana » 05 Mar 2018 07:34

Up.

ramana
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Re: Operational Art or War Doctrine

Postby ramana » 15 Mar 2018 01:55

A very good assessment of the 1965 war by the commander Lt. Gen. Harbaksh Singh

http://www.indiandefencereview.com/spot ... ns-learnt/

[quote]

The Strategic Concept

Although we did succeed in whittling down PAK’s fighting potential, especially armour, and occupied chunks of her territory, most of our offensive actions, however, fizzled out into a series of stalemates without achieving any decisive results. With the exception of the HAJIPIR offensive, none of the remaining thrusts were pushed to a successful conclusion ..



Read more at:
http://www.indiandefencereview.com/spot ... ns-learnt/

ramana
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Re: Operational Art or War Doctrine

Postby ramana » 29 Apr 2018 02:52

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War


I would like people to read about readiness of US troops in Korean War and compare to IA in 1962.


Looks like same peace dividend mindset.

Just like Nehru let Krishna Menon take the fall, Trueman let Johnson take the rap for US troops under euipment disaster.

RoyG
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Re: Operational Art or War Doctrine

Postby RoyG » 30 Apr 2018 03:57

ramana wrote:Shiv, Thanks for posting as even UK got constrained by American art of war.

Something for India to ponder with all those four and five letter agreements US wants to push.



This is a problem because, Desportes insists, numbers matter and most conflicts require controlling space rather than simply locating and attacking the enemy. Controlling space requires “volume.” The result is a French military that can prevail in a battle but cannot win a war.



very insightful profound statement.

Operation Riddle in 1965 was not effective as there was not enough volume for Indian forces. I analyzed this in the 1965 war thread.

Same with Western front on 1971 war.


This is a transient phenomena. Unmanned weapons will fill the gap. Their security situation is also very diff from ours. France is among the best.

nam
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Re: Operational Art or War Doctrine

Postby nam » 08 Jun 2018 21:39

Posters,

World World 1 on a week by week basis. Phenomenal series,I promise, you will be hooked.The series started in 2014, every week telling story about the progress of the war in that week! You need to see this to understand the scale of a conflict.



Full List: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FgaL0xIazk&list=PLB2vhKMBjSxMK8YelHj6VS6w3KxuKsMvT




Trivia's: WW1 started on death of Archduke Franz Ferdinand. He was not the cause,because he was the stumbling block for the war. He was dead against starting the war!

Ottoman empire forces were routinely defeated by one force in the Middle East. British Indian Army! In case you are wondering on what problem Turkey may have with us..

French lost close to 27,000 troops on a SINGLE DAY at their first major engagement with the Germans. They were riding their horses in bright uniform towards German machine guns!

manjgu
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Re: Operational Art or War Doctrine

Postby manjgu » 22 Jun 2018 23:07

ok...so what i learnt on the 1962 war from the briefing... PLA was a well drilled, competent force..not a rag tag militia.. all aspects of military operations was well thought out..intelligence, logistics, training etc. they concentrated their forces in few areas .. the indians were strung out in penny packets along the border often manning posts which did not make military sense ( in terms of their definsibility, visibility, access etc). The most famous of all posts Dhola was sited poorly at the bottom of a valley... The chinese attacked in force with accompnying artillery to soften up targets before attack and the attacks were carried thru with vigour/force. The logistics of IA was v poor and all was done in haste... IAF tried to help with logistics but was a very poor effort.. overall poor planning at all levels and only the bravery of men and junior officers saved some pride. the officer giving the briefing showed the movement of chineses on a bigggg map pinned on the wall ... as i said in my previous mails the chinese was said to be 7 feet tall ... they did not shy away from attacking what they considered of importance. the enemy numbers were grossly exaggerated often to hide our own shortcomings... attacking uphill requires lot of manpower and the chinese understood the numbers required. IA was mostly engaged in defensive action with individual acts of courage/bravery...but overall total loss of command and control.


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