International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

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brar_w
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

Post by brar_w »

^^ That tweet makes no sense. The block 4 hardware elements that consume the most expense are the new mission computers, EW processors, other mission system processors, and the 8 new EW antennas (other elements like radar processor upgrades, EODAS sensor ugprades are optional as retrofits but will be fitted forward on new aircraft). Whether you are at 2B or 3F you are still migrating to the entire Tech refresh 3 hardware stack so the cost would be exactly the same (there is no interim capability with TR3 it is either a complete computing overhaul or nothing at all). And there is just empty space in both 2B and 3F jets where the new antennas would be installed for EW. So the cost to upgrade from Tech Refresh 2 hardware will be identical to what it would be for pre TR2 jets or jets that sit somewhere in the middle.
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

Post by Rakesh »

Wreckage has been recovered. Thank goodness.

https://twitter.com/bealejonathan/statu ... 34945?s=20 ---> Wreckage of U.K. F-35 jet - which crashed while taking off from @HMSQNLZ two weeks ago - has now been recovered from the sea bed in the Eastern Mediterranean says MoD. “We extend our thanks to our NATO, allies Italy and the United States of America for their support."
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

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The way it went down (at takeoff) basically meant that they knew where it was all along. That probably made the salvage operation for either the entire thing or the vital components a lot easier. This isn't always the case, which should highlight the capability that you need to maintain if you have expeditionary needs and need to deploy forces at long distances from your major bases and infrastructure. The UK was lucky to have Italian and US support nearby.
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

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Finland orders 64 Lockheed F-35 fighter jets for $9.4 bln

Finland has chosen U.S. defence giant Lockheed Martin's (LMT.N) F-35 fighters to replace ageing F/A-18 combat jets and plans to order 64 planes with weapons systems in a $9.4 billion deal, the government said on Friday.

Lockheed Martin competed in a tender for the deal with Sweden's Saab (SAABb.ST), U.S. rival Boeing (BA.N), France's Dassault and Britain's BAE Systems (BAES.L).

The procurement from Lockheed, including weapons as well as service and maintenance until 2030, is estimated to cost 8.378 billion euros ($9.44 billion), the government said.

The construction of hangars and other equipment will add a further 777 million euros, and 824 million euros will be reserved for the final optimised weapons package and to control future contract amendments, it added.

"When comparing military performance, the F-35 best met our needs," Defence Minister Antti Kaikkonen told a news conference.

Military planemakers have been vying for the deal since late 2015, when the Finnish defence ministry began the search for a new jet to replace Finland's old Hornet fighter bought in 1992 from McDonnell Douglas, now part of Boeing.

Finland is the 14th nation to opt for the F-35. It will begin phasing in the F-35 from 2027 onwards, said Airforce Commander Pasi Jokinen.

The choice strengthens the small Nordic nation's defence cooperation with its allies, most significantly the United States and Norway, said researcher Charly Salonius-Pasternak at the Finnish Institute of International Affairs.

"Finland and Norway already train together in the north so it will be a political decision to determine what intelligence is shared and when," he told Reuters, referring to the potential for the jets to share data in real time.

Unlike Norway, Finland is not a member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO) but it has forged stronger ties with the organisation in recent years and chosen military equipment compatible with NATO members.

In 2014 Finland and Sweden, which is also not a NATO member, signed an agreement to train together and allow NATO assistance in crisis situations.

"The F-35 will provide Finnish industries unique digital capabilities that leverage 5th generation engineering and manufacturing," said Bridget Lauderdale, Lockheed Martin's vice president and general manager of the F-35 programme.

"The production work will continue for more than 20 years, and the F-35 sustainment work will continue into the 2070s," Lauderdale said in a statement.

Rival jet maker Boeing said it was disappointed with Finland's decision, adding that the company still sees significant international interest in its F/A-18 Block III Super Hornet and EA-18G Growler.

Sweden, a neighbour to Finland and home to Gripen maker Saab, said it regretted the outcome while also respecting the decision.

"Our excellent defence cooperation will of course continue. Finland will continue to be our closest security and defence policy partner," Sweden's Ministry of Defence said in a statement.
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

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Other reports are stating that they will be donated.

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... 80931?s=20 ---> UAE to sell its Mirage 2000-9s to Egypt and Morocco.
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

Post by ldev »

I was reading elsewhere that with the optimized weapons package and shelters it will be actually a $ 11 billion deal. It is still an excellent price for 64 F-35s. Just over $170 million per fighter, all in.
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

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Here is an excellent summary of the selection process and what's included by one of the most well sourced, and commentator on Finnish military procurement. Posting some select parts but worth a read and also a follow to see some of the other offers (he covered each offer in much detail).The first block 4 aircraft will be delivered to The Finnish Air Force in 2025 and will be used to train the initial pilots in the US. They will arrive in Finland in 2026, and once the first squadron is fully equipped and trained, will be declared operational around 2027.

The component production offer that came from Lockheed martin and its suppliers (not forced by GOTUS which can only endorse and not force it) will be a severe gut punch to Boeing and several other competitors. They offered their 14th customer a guaranteed production of 400 F-35 forward fuselages. Not parts of an airliner, business jet, civil or military cargo aircraft etc but of an actual high tech military combat aircraft. I doubt either of the competitors on this could have predicted that they would (or could) do that.

F-35A is HX – The Winner Takes It All

Speaking of which, much of the hesitation about the F-35 has been surrounding how it is from the outset is conceptualised to benefit from being the NATO-standard, with concentrated maintenance and spares supplies. However, in what is a major win for the team behind HX, Lockheed Martin provided a unique tailored solution to Finland – one described in their BAFO-press statement to “includes many opportunities for the Finnish defense industry related to the direct manufacture and maintenance of the F-35 that have not been offered before.” This is in line also with the earlier talking points of Lockheed Martin throughout the past few years, which has focused on the fact that maintenance solutions and spares packages indeed can be altered to meet the needs of the Finnish Air Force (one might also note that Israel had no issue securing far-reaching rights to do stuff themselves, showing that while they arguably are a special case, the rules of the F-35 game aren’t as set as some would like to make them out to be). But while it has been reported earlier that Finland received a “firm commitment” for a number of components and sub-assemblies for not just the Finnish F-35s but for the global fleet as well (itself something significantly more far-reaching than most other countries), today’s presser included information that included a firm commitment that 400 forward fuselage will be assembled in Finland! It’s hard to stress how much of a different league this is compared to e.g. the Danish agreement (and how happy this makes me as a taxpayer)...

To ensure that Finland will have an indigenous maintenance and repair capability for over 100 components (including parts of the fuselage and engine), which is based on the items covered by the industrial cooperation agreement. There will also be significant stockpiles of components that aren’t on the list of items which Finland can repair and overhaul organically (often parts with very long mean time between failures, and for which it aren’t economical to build up an independent repair capability). Notable is also that the Finnish organic repair capability is not just for domestic use, but is also part of the GSS (the global support solution) meaning that they will be used to maintain parts for the global spares pool...

The weapons package is at the same time comprehensive and straightforward. The first package which will be signed off at the same time as the fighter contract is for AIM-120C-8 AMRAAMs and AIM-9X Sidewinders. Further down the road the package will most likely include JSM in the joint air-to-ground and anti-ship roles, as well as the AGM-158 JASSM-ER heavy cruise missile, GBU-54 and GBU-56 LJDAM laser-/GPS-guided bombs in the 250 and 1,000 kg class, as well as the GBU-39 SDB and GBU-53/B StormBreaker SDB II small-diameter bombs. The procurement will be staggered to ensure that there won’t be a single huge batch of weapons becoming obsolescent at the same time, and to ensure that developments with new versions of existing weapons or even completely new munitions are kept up with (no-one is officially mentioning the AIM-260 JATM, but we all know it is coming). The total arms package is for approximately 1.58 Bn EUR, of which 754.6 MEUR is for the air-to-air missiles to be acquired in the first step, and 823.8 MEUR for later procurement (up to 2030)

All bases, both main bases, other air force bases, alternative civilian fields, and road bases, remain in use. The F-35A has no major issues with operating from the current Finnish network. The key detail that is setting the limit is the safety margins required for an aborted take-off. The old ‘hot’ MiG-21 and J 35 Draken have flown from all, including roads, earlier, and while the F-35A (like any modern fighter) is easier when it comes to the ‘flying’ part, it is also quite a bit heavier at maximum take-off weight. To ensure braking in poor conditions, the Finnish aircraft will be fitted with the ‘Norwegian’ braking chute. As such, the whole current base network will continue in service. The upgrades to infrastructure is broken down in further detail in the official documents, with 409 MEUR for buildings and 75 MEUR for upgrades to the C3I-systems. These include the (in)famous upgrades to cybersecurity in line with the US requirements.

The aircraft will be delivered in ‘Block 4 standard’, though the iterative development path of modern aircraft means that things seldom are that simple. What Block 4 mean in this case is that the first Finnish fighters – coming out of Lot 17 in 2025 – will have the TR3 hardware upgrades that are associated with the Block 4 (including the sidekick upgrade that allow for six AMRAAMs in internal carriage) and what Lockheed Martin describes as the “vast majority” of the software upgrades. The final upgrades will come with Lot 18.

The evaluation focused on a major war scenario, in which the air to air role was the focus (30%), with 10% weight being allocated to supporting the Finnish Navy (I can happily report that it indeed was a naval officer who was involved in this part of the evaluation), and 20% each to supporting the Army, long-range fires, and ISR. The F-35A ranked first or joint-first in all mission sets.
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

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A few more details on the process followed by Finland on the H-X (translated to English).

This is how the best fighter survived: there was a full-scale “battle” in the war games

Military performance was the only area in the entire HX project where candidates were scored and ranked. Only Lockheed Martin's F-35, Boeing's Super-Hornet and Saab's Gripen E would survive this phase.

- It assessed counter-air operations (air defense), counter-land operations (from air to ground), counter-sea operations (from air to sea), long-range influence, and intelligence and ability to show goals, says Chief of Staff Keränen.

According to Keränen, the goal was to assess how well the candidates are doing in different job types

- How likely is it to be able to complete the task and survive back, Keränen says.

According to Keränen, the war games ended in a long-running operational war game.

- It included, for example, all the machines, weapons, hangers and maintenance equipment included in the tenderer's tender.

- The games started with a battle between your own and an enemy flock (flock = four fighters), says Keränen. The missions became more difficult, there could be several different missions in a row, and in the end there was a full-scale war against the enemy. In other words, the land and navy forces were also involved, Keränen says.

The tasks were to fight, attack and destroy, and to support the land and naval forces. The best survivor was the American F-35.

Versatile evaluations revealed, for example, how well the machines could be decentralized and how maintenance was going. Or what was the turnaround time of the machine on the ground when it was refueled and refitted.

If the mission of the planes was interrupted again, it was found out how they were able to land armed.

- The goal was to find out the real ability of each candidate to act as well as the ability to concentrate.

- The tasks were built in such a way that we had set different tasks for the manufacturer and the manufacturer was then allowed to show how they would be solved. How many machines are needed for each mission and what kind of weapons, Brigadier General Keränen says.

The F-35 scored 4.47 points and the second-time fighter 3.81 points. The requirement was 4 points. The maximum score was 5 points.

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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

Post by Rakesh »

Is this true? I am surprised.

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... 70820?s=20 ---> UAE cancels plans to purchase F-35A stealth fighters as well as MQ-9B UAVs because "US demanded too stringent conditions to prevent tech leaks to China."

guess this is where Wolfpack got this from....but Reteurs/WSJ states threatening, Wolfpack went straight to cancellation.

UAE threatens to pull out of $23 billion F-35, drone deal with U.S.- WSJ
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-12-14/
14 Dec 2021
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

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brar_w wrote:A few more details on the process followed by Finland on the H-X (translated to English).

This is how the best fighter survived: there was a full-scale “battle” in the war games
A few things I found interesting in the Finnish competition:

First, to compete against the F-35 and to offer the full range of capabilities that the F-35 brings to the table on a standalone basis, Boeing had to offer the FA-18 as well as the EA-18 Growler and Saab offered the Gripen with the Globaleye AEWC platform. It indicates how potent the F-35s standalone capabilities that it won the competition vs the combined capabilities of the competing fighters + EW/AEWC support.

Second, Finland has a defence budget of just under Euro 5 billion translated into about $ 5.5 billion at current exchange rates. That they were able to place a CAPEX order of $11 billion which is 200% of their annual defence budget speaks volumes about their commitment to fleet modernization.

In contrast India with a defence budget of $70-75 billion typically struggles to fund lower CAPEX programs. The CAPEX to Revenue ratio is skewed and that hurts capital stock modernization.
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

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Once they had their initial discussions with each potential bidder, they realized that they would need to budget about €10 billion (USD 12 bn) for the total program (procurement, weapons, construction/base-upgrades and initial bed down) and would thus need a CAPEX bump. This is not too different to how they acquired their Hornets IIRC so its a short term increase in spending to modernize.

Boeing's bid was very strange. The Growler is not much of a conventional deterrent for an Air Force like Finland. It is generally an excellent option if you have a large force and are trying to provide SEAD to enable it. It does not work the same for a smaller force because it fragments it meaning a fraction of the force has to then act as an enabler for the rest of it. With the F-35 they have all 60+ aircraft that are capable of being tasked across the mission sets that they evaluated and wanted, and it can swing from one mission to another as things change.
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

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brar_w wrote:Once they had their initial discussions with each potential bidder, they realized that they would need to budget about €10 billion (USD 12 bn) for the total program and would thus need a CAPEX bump. This is not too different to how they acquired their Hornets IIRC so its a short term increase in spending to modernize.
Thank you brar :)
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

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Rakesh wrote:Is this true? I am surprised.

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... 70820?s=20 ---> UAE cancels plans to purchase F-35A stealth fighters as well as MQ-9B UAVs because "US demanded too stringent conditions to prevent tech leaks to China."

guess this is where Wolfpack got this from....but Reteurs/WSJ states threatening, Wolfpack went straight to cancellation.

UAE threatens to pull out of $23 billion F-35, drone deal with U.S.- WSJ
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-12-14/
14 Dec 2021
The tweet says they have cancelled, whereas the Reuters and WSJ reports they are threatening to cancel (perhaps twitter user took some liberty). Part and parcel of negotiations with them (they went through like 2 dozen rounds with the French). The US position is that they must cancel or water down Huawei's involvement in their 5G etc. So its very much a negotiation around that. Will UAE walk away from a dual-sourced western arms purchases because of Huawei? I doubt it but if the relationship with China means this much to them perhaps it worth walking away from selling them the F-35..More likely however is that they are just jousting for a negotiated position to complete the deal. Congress didn't object and the administration has approved the sale so this is more just about 5G and other matters..
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

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brar_w wrote:Boeing's bid was very strange. The Growler is not much of a conventional deterrent for an Air Force like Finland. It is generally an excellent option if you have a large force and are trying to provide SEAD to enable it. It does not work the same for a smaller force because it fragments it meaning a fraction of the force has to then act as an enabler for the rest of it. With the F-35 they have all 60+ aircraft that are capable of being tasked across the mission sets that they evaluated and wanted, and it can swing from one mission to another as things change.
Do you know what was the Boeing offer break down of FA-18s vs Growler in the 64 aircraft package? Saab offered 64 Gripen and 2 Globaleye AEWC units.
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

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brar_w wrote:The tweet says they have cancelled, whereas the Reuters and WSJ reports they are threatening to cancel (perhaps twitter user took some liberty). Part and parcel of negotiations with them (they went through like 2 dozen rounds with the French). The US position is that they must cancel or water down Huawei's involvement in their 5G etc. So its very much a negotiation around that. Will UAE walk away from a dual-sourced western arms purchases because of Huawei? I doubt it but if the relationship with China means this much to them perhaps it worth walking away from selling them the F-35..More likely however is that they are just jousting for a negotiated position to complete the deal. Congress didn't object and the administration has approved the sale so this is more just about 5G and other matters..
I really hope the UAE continues with the negotiations. LM is killing it with F-35 sales and it is a potent platform. Lets see.
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

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brar_w wrote:The tweet says they have cancelled, whereas the Reuters and WSJ reports they are threatening to cancel (perhaps twitter user took some liberty). Part and parcel of negotiations with them (they went through like 2 dozen rounds with the French). The US position is that they must cancel or water down Huawei's involvement in their 5G etc. So its very much a negotiation around that. Will UAE walk away from a dual-sourced western arms purchases because of Huawei? I doubt it but if the relationship with China means this much to them perhaps it worth walking away from selling them the F-35..More likely however is that they are just jousting for a negotiated position to complete the deal. Congress didn't object and the administration has approved the sale so this is more just about 5G and other matters..
It is probably not the Huawei complication. There is also some rumbling from the UAE on potential user restrictions maybe in the context of Israeli objections. Just yesterday Naftali Bennett the Israeli PM paid his first visit to Abu Dhabi after the establishment of diplomatic relations and met Crown Prince Mohammed. The fact that this news snippet has emerged so soon after that meeting indicates to me that it is not Huawei but the Israeli complication which is the issue.
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

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The letter (sent by a "junior" UAE official) specifically cited the negotiations around Chinese involvement in 5G and other projects and likely predates any trip of Bennett to UAE..The UAE went back and forth with France for more than a decade before they got the Rafale deal fully sealed. The F-35 won't take this long but they've still be at it for a number of years and it is now just about making concessions around Huawei and other information and cyber security safeguards. The chips are with GOTUS on this. UAE can threaten to walk out, and all they'll do is rejoin towards the end of the decade. There is a production ramp up and supply chain issue (COVID related) with the F-35 which is limiting how much they can ramp up (Richard Aboulafia of the Teal group reported that it was Lockheed and its suppliers who insisted on the production smoothing plan to limit production rate increases over the next 3-4 years) so they have no issues selling the aircraft they are producing. Their problem is not moving through their backlog fast enough or at a pace they had originally planned.

UAE on the hand has no FGFA that it can buy so its a bit of a prestige issue for them. Do they really want Jordan or some other Arab user to get it before them? Meanwhile this helps to level set the balance between US and Chinese interests which will be a good test here as THAAD and other such deals all happened before the 5G thing became a big issue.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/united-ara ... 1639491997

The deal was approved by the Trump administration was not rejected by either the Biden administration or Congress. However, GOTUS had taken a stand that they must reverse their Huawei infrastructure and the current administration can hold up contract negotiations indefinitely until they arrive to a mutually acceptable position.

From this summer:

The Biden administration is pressing the United Arab Emirates to remove Huawei Technologies Co. from its telecommunications network and take other steps to distance itself from China, raising the risk that the country’s purchase of some $23 billion in F-35 jets and drones may be at stake, people familiar with the matter said.

The U.S. is asking the UAE to remove Huawei equipment from its networks within the next four years -- before it’s scheduled to get the F-35 in 2026 or 2027 -- but Emirati officials have countered that they’d need longer plus an alternative that’s as affordable, according to three of the people, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss private negotiations. The conversations have turned in part on the feasibility of obtaining alternative equipment from Samsung Electronics Co., Ericsson AB or Nokia Oyj.

The dispute over the UAE’s use of Huawei has simmered since the Trump administration, when U.S. officials unsuccessfully tried to persuade the Emirates -- a crucial ally in a turbulent region -- to reverse a push for stronger military and economic ties with China, which is seeking increased influence in the Middle East.

Several people familiar with the situation said Trump administration officials had initially persuaded Emirati officials to replace Huawei and preempt any Chinese plans for bases in the region. But the Emiratis insisted on more ambiguous language in a deal that was concluded in the waning hours of Donald Trump’s presidency.

President Joe Biden announced a review of the F-35 sale when he came into office. The sale is proceeding for now, but people familiar with the matter said the differences over what the U.S. and UAE agreed to -- on Huawei and other concerns about Chinese technology -- are sufficiently serious that there’s still no guarantee the Emirates will ever get the advanced fighter jet made by Lockheed Martin Corp.

LINK

ldev wrote:
brar_w wrote:Boeing's bid was very strange. The Growler is not much of a conventional deterrent for an Air Force like Finland. It is generally an excellent option if you have a large force and are trying to provide SEAD to enable it. It does not work the same for a smaller force because it fragments it meaning a fraction of the force has to then act as an enabler for the rest of it. With the F-35 they have all 60+ aircraft that are capable of being tasked across the mission sets that they evaluated and wanted, and it can swing from one mission to another as things change.
Do you know what was the Boeing offer break down of FA-18s vs Growler in the 64 aircraft package? Saab offered 64 Gripen and 2 Globaleye AEWC units.
Boeing offered 50 Block III F/A-18's, and 14 Block II (internal) EA-18G's equipped with the Next Gen Jammer system.
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

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brar_w wrote:Boeing offered 50 Block III F/A-18's, and 14 Block II (internal) EA-18G's equipped with the Next Gen Jammer system.
Thanks. That's a formidable combination and yet it lost to the F-35!!

You are probably right that current UAE impasse is China related. Huawei is the lightning rod IMO, the company has become something of a prestige issue for China after the CFO skirmish with the US and Canada. The UAE is probably worried that in the event the Huawei deal is cancelled that China will retaliate by diverting large volumes of transshipment cargo from Jebel Ali to regional rival Qatar or God forbid to an Iranian port if the Iran nuclear deal gets back on track and thereby impact the UAE reputation as the undisputed free trade entrepot in the region. Because in general the UAE like other Gulf countries are brand buyers of expensive Western brands i.e. they would normally choose Ericsson, Qualcomm or Nokia 5G gear rather than Huawei so it the overall China relationship which appears to be the issue.
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

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U.S. says it is ready to move forward with fighter jet sale to UAE
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-12-15/
15 Dec 2021
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

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You got to hand it to media houses to spin stuff. Really amazing.

UAE F-35 deal on life support after Emiratis cancel acceptance of weapons package
https://breakingdefense.com/2021/12/uae ... s-package/
14 Dec 2021
After a year in which UAE officials insisted they would not give up on Huawei — seen by Emirati leadership as a strategic relationship with China — the withdrawal of the LOA seems to serve as a message to Washington to either stick to the original F-35 offer, created under the Trump administration and without the Huawei requirements, or they will look elsewhere.
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

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This isn't spin at all. This has been widely reported (even prior to the current cycle of news reports) as the sticking point in the deal as the current administration wants to negotiate the issues with Huawei and Chinese military infrastructure in the region and wants to club it with this deal while the UAE wants to maintain the status quo in terms of what the Trump admin had negotiated. There will likely be multiple rounds of back and forth and walkouts before this is signed and sealed (contracts awarded). The French did this dance for more than a decade, and they didn't even have any pre-conditions like what the US is likely putting forth with regards to 5G etc.
The dispute over the UAE’s use of Huawei has simmered since the Trump administration, when U.S. officials unsuccessfully tried to persuade the Emirates -- a crucial ally in a turbulent region -- to reverse a push for stronger military and economic ties with China, which is seeking increased influence in the Middle East.

Several people familiar with the situation said Trump administration officials had initially persuaded Emirati officials to replace Huawei and preempt any Chinese plans for bases in the region. But the Emiratis insisted on more ambiguous language in a deal that was concluded in the waning hours of Donald Trump’s presidency.
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

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Thanks for clarifying Brar.

If DT Administration actually agreed to the ambiguous language, that is startling. Especially considering the threat that China is. What more skeletons are going to come out of DT's Presidency?
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

Post by brar_w »

There may not be dramatic differences in the positions of the prior and current administration vis-a-vis UAE's use of Chinese 5G, and how they want assurance or changes to be made by UAE to safeguard and to be able to join the F-35 program as FMS customer. However there may be different approaches to negotiating this and how much they ask of UAE upfront vs how much they can do gradually etc etc. I'm willing to bet that the negotiated position when it arrives will probably just be only slightly different from what the Trump admin had stipulated but with a new National security team you have to kind of start from scratch. An approval to sell is just the first step. Once that is provided, and assuming there aren't objections from Congress, only then do you sit down face to face and hash out the details, mutual obligations and deliverables and contract components. So some of these issues may also have come up if DT was elected for a 2nd term and his admin had to do the same process.

Worth noting that the Trump administration had given the UK (a 5 eyes member) an ultimatum that they would not base the 2 F-35A squadrons in the UK (vital to NATO and also for joint UK F-35 training needs as it brings EOS to training ranges and support) and may also pull out other ISR resources if it did not weed out Huawei from its 5G system. This ultimately led the UK to ban Huawei and provide a deadline to weed out that equipment from its network. So what the Biden admin may be asking from UAE isn't something unique to just the UAE and done to somehow deny them of the deal approved by the Trump admin at the 11th hour. Now if the current admin feels it can't negotiate somewhat favorable terms with the UAE and get enough safeguards around Chinese 5G and even military infra then they should simply walk out and offer to upgrade their F-16's instead and perhaps sell the drones. That would generally find political support across party lines in the US. They have no issues finding customers of the F-35 foreign sales with deliveries between 2025 and 2035. And that is why the UAE's current negotiating tactic lacks teeth and why they are likely to be back on the table in the short term (if they ever left in the first place). There will be a few rounds of this before the deal is ultimately signed. Anyone following the UAE military developments knows that they've wanted the F-35 for a very long time (there are persistent rumors in some circles that they even hoped to be a program partner at one time but were denied)..
Last edited by brar_w on 16 Dec 2021 22:18, edited 1 time in total.
ldev
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

Post by ldev »

brar_w wrote:And that is why the UAE's current negotiating tactic lacks teeth and why they are likely to be back on the table in the short term (if they ever left in the first place).
You want the UAE to fold and come back to the negotiating table on US terms :wink: ? Just open preliminary discussions with Qatar on an F-35 sale
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

Post by brar_w »

Qatar is still collecting all the 4+ generation fighters currently available around the world. Once that collection is fielded, I'm sure they'll move to 5th gen.. :rotfl:
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

Post by ldev »

brar_w wrote:Qatar is still collecting all the 4+ generation fighters currently available around the world. Once that collection is fielded, I'm sure they'll move to 5th gen.. :rotfl:
:rotfl: :rotfl:
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

Post by Nick_S »

arvin
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

Post by arvin »

That is approx Rs 550 crore. Not a big amount by any standards. Can easily be raised by simply seizing assets of some corrupt corporator.
But think about the technological backwardness and know how gap it puts us into by not investing in such tech.
It is many times the amount.
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

Post by Rakesh »

From the official UK MoD Website...

UK and Japan to develop future fighter jet engine demonstrator
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-a ... monstrator
22 December 2021
The UK and Japan announce plans to develop a future fighter aircraft engine demonstrator and agree to explore further combat air technologies.
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

Post by brar_w »

Malaysia keen on buying Kuwait’s Hornet fighter jets

Malaysia is hoping to buy Kuwait’s entire fleet of Boeing F/A-18 Hornet multi-role fighter jets, although discussions between both governments over the sale have yet to begin.

Speaking during a question-and-answer session in Malaysia’s parliament, the country’s deputy defense minister Ikmal Hisham Abdul Aziz said the southeast Asian country is seeking to purchase the Kuwaiti Air Force’s fleet of 33 jets “lock, stock and barrel.”

He noted the Kuwaiti Hornets are still in good condition with relatively low flight hours and adding them to the Royal Malaysian Air Force, or RMAF, inventory “will definitely increase the level of preparedness and capability of the RMAF in safeguarding the country’s [air]space.”

He also added the country is planning on operating the type till 2035.

Malaysia currently operates a fleet of eight F/A-18D twin-seat fighters in the air defense and strike role, serving alongside 18 Russian-built Sukhoi Su-30MKM Flanker-H jets. The Hornets were acquired in 1997 and have been upgraded over the past decade.

The incremental improvements include the integration of the Joint Helmet Cueing System, AIM-9X Sidewinder air-to-air missile and satellite-guided Joint Direct Attack Munitions as well as the addition of the Link 16 datalink.

Kuwait is seeking to dispose of its fleet of F/A-18C single-seaters and F/A-18Ds, 40 of which were acquired in the aftermath of the 1991 Gulf War. The small Persian Gulf emirate is currently taking delivery of 28 Eurofighter Typhoons and a similar number of F/A-18E/F Super Hornet fighters.

Malaysia has evaluated the Super Hornet and Typhoon alongside the French Dassault Rafale as it flirted with the procurement of a new multi-role combat aircraft. However, budget problems have meant the country’s Russian-built MiG-29 Fulcrum interceptors have been quietly withdrawn from service without a replacement.

Acquiring the Kuwaiti Hornets would allow the RMAF to beef up its existing, albeit understrength, inventory of the type with eight aircraft being short of a typical fighter jet squadron’s strength of at least 12 aircraft.

However, should Malaysia be successful in acquiring the Kuwaiti jets, it’s likely to need to refurbish the Kuwaiti jets to bring them in line with its existing fleet of Hornets to ensure fleet commonality.


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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

Post by Chinmay »

Indonesia gives up on Russian aircraft purchase, instead turning to US and French options
Indonesia has admitted defeat in its attempt to buy Russian fighter jets and will now decide between the Boeing F-15EX Eagle II and the Dassault Rafale, according to the country’s Air Force chief of staff.

Prasetyo also confirmed that it was “with a heavy heart” that Indonesia would abandon its plan to acquire the Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E. The country had selected the Russian twin-engine, single-seat fighter in 2015 but never signed a contract for 11 aircraft following negotiations with Russia in 2018.

While Indonesia has not explicitly said so, it’s possible its reticence to conclude the Su-35 acquisition was due to concern the move could trigger U.S. sanctions under the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act. The law was passed by Congress in 2017 and is meant to discourage governments or entities from acquiring weapons as well as military hardware and parts from American adversaries like Iran, North Korea and Russia.
CAATSA threat will prove very expensive for Indonesia. Neither the F-15EX nor the Rafale come cheap, and I am not sure how they will finance it.
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

Post by brar_w »

Indonesia has been delaying (and disputing) its rather modest development payments on the pseudo 5th gen Korean KF-X fighter so their ability to afford either the F-15 or Rafale looks questionable at best.
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

Post by arvin »

James webb space telescope (JWST) successfully launched into space by Ariane 5. Took close to 30 years to reach this event. Historic moment for astronomy to study deep into time after big bang.
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

Post by Pratyush »

Let's hope that it works as intended once it reaches the designated spot.
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

Post by arvin »

True that. The complex system that it is, commissioning itself will take 6 months for all the alignment to be correct. Science will not start until June.
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

Post by brar_w »

Here's a link for those tracking its status as it gets deployed over the next months -

https://webb.nasa.gov/content/webbLaunc ... sWebb.html
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

Post by NRao »

brar_w wrote:Here's a link for those tracking its status as it gets deployed over the next months -

https://webb.nasa.gov/content/webbLaunc ... sWebb.html
Will take 29 days to reach L2. And, another 5/6 months to operationalize.
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

Post by brar_w »

Netherlands Declares IOC for F-35 Squadron

The Netherlands Ministry of Defense officially declared Initial Operational Capable (IOC) for the Air Force’s F-35 squadron.

“With this we are taking another important step in our transition to a future-proof air force. I expect that on our path to Full Operational Capability we will enter a period of heavy deployment of this wonderful new weapon system. Just as we have seen almost continuous deployment of F-16s over the past 30 years, more is only possible with this ' next level ' fighter aircraft,” commented Commander Air Forces Lieutenant General Dennis Luyt.

The military will now be able to deploy a unit of 4 F-35s with personnel and equipment anywhere in the world for a short period of time.

Last year the squadron moved from Leeuwarden to Volkel for exercise Frisian Lightning II. The aim was to prepare the unit for a move in the shortest possible time. Exercise Frisian Lightning I previously trained the packing and preparation of equipment and spare parts. Similar steps were also taken from Leeuwarden to the United States this year.

The Netherlands received the first F-35 at the end of 2019. It is replacing old F-16s by a total of 46 F-35s until the end of 2024.
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

Post by Chinmay »

Thailand wants to buy F-35s
The Royal Thai Air Force is eyeing the procurement of eight US-made F-35 stealth jets, the world's most advanced warplane, to strengthen national defence, said its commander-in-chief ACM Napadej Dhupatemiya.

The F-35 jets, manufactured by US defence giant Lockheed Martin, have emerged as the best choice now that costs are lower, down to US$82 million (2.7 billion baht) each from $142 million when the model first hit the market, he said.

With the new Swedish-made Saab Gripen priced at $85 million per unit, Lockheed Martin's product is not out of reach, ACM Napadej said. Depending on negotiations, unit prices of the F-35 can be brought down to just above $70 million each, he said.
This is a surprising comment from the Thai air chief. The RTAF already operates the Gripen, so how would it be cheaper to buy an entirely new fifth gen fighter, in very modest numbers, along with its support infra? Also the comparison of flyaway costs isnt correct, but he should know that :?:
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Re: International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

Post by brar_w »

LOT 14 F-35A fly-away cost is $77.9. With FMS surcharge that would be $81 Million. It could very well be that they could negotiate that FMS charge away, and also try to get the unit cost down to around $75 Million for a later production lot once Block 4 has stabilized so that they are under $80 MM even with the FMS surcharge. SAAB could not undercut the F-35 and offer more number of Gripens to either the Swiss or the Finns so there is likely a significant difference in the production cost of the Gripen E/F compared to the F-35A. Czech Republic, another Gripen customer, is talking to Lockheed Martin about potential F-35 purchase so a lot of SAABs current market is not coming back which also explains their interest in joining the Tempest program and having a stake in a 5+ generation fighter. Based on the way the last few years have panned out, the only chance the 4+ gen platforms have is to not have the end user consider the F-35. If the latter ends up in a competition it is undefeated and those competitions (that exclude a 5GFA) will become even rarer in 2022 and beyond.
Last edited by brar_w on 01 Jan 2022 21:29, edited 3 times in total.
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