Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

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Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Rakesh » 10 Feb 2018 00:40

New Tejas thread started with excellent reference info below.

Thanks to BRF Members --> Ashish Raval, Kartik, Fanne, SaiK, Kakarat and Prasad for all their help.

Mods: Please update list below, as and when a new milestone is reached. Thank You.

Acronyms:
TD: Technology Demonstrator
PV: Prototype Vehicle
LSP: Limited Series Production
NP: Naval Prototype
SP: Series Production

Last Page of Previous Thread ---> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7368&start=3480

Info below (not all) can be counter referenced here ---> http://www.tejas.gov.in/first_flights.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Production Line / Aircraft / Aircraft Serial # / Aircraft First Flight / Pilot
TD-1 ... KH2001 ... 04-Jan-01 ... Wing Commander Rajiv Kothiyal
TD-2 ... KH2002 ... 06-Jun-02 ... Wing Commander Tarun Banerjee

PV-1 ... KH2003 ..... 25-Nov-03 ... Squadron Leader Suneet Krishna
PV-2 ... KH2004 ..... 01-Dec-05 ... Wing Commander Vikram Singh
PV-3 ... KH2005 ..... 01-Dec-06 ... Group Captain Harish Nayani
PV-5 ... KH-T2009 ... 26-Nov-09 ... Group Captain Ritu Raj Tyagi & Air Commodore Rohit Verma
PV-6 ... KH-T2010 ... 08-Nov-14 ... Group Captain Vivart Singh & Group Captain Kabadwal

LSP-1 ... KH2011 ... 25-Apr-07 ... Group Captain Aditya Prakash Singh
LSP-2 ... KH2012 ... 16-Jun-08 ... Wing Commander Narmdeshwar Tiwari
LSP-3 ... KH2013 ... 23-Apr-10 ... Wing Commander George Thomas
LSP-4 ... KH2014 ... 02-Jun-10 ... Group Captain Suneet Krishna
LSP-5 ... KH2015 ... 19-Nov-10 ... Lieutenant Commander Ankur Jain (IN)
LSP-7 ... KH2017 ... 09-Mar-12 ... Group Captain Kolal Krishnamurthy Venugopal
LSP-8 ... KH2018 ... 31-Mar-13 ... Air Commodore Kalianda Appaya Muthanna (Retd)

NP-1 ... KHN-T-3001 ... 27-Apr-12 ... Commodore Jaideep Maolankar (IN) & Wing Commander M Prabhu
NP-2 ... NAVY-3002 ... 07-Feb-15 ... Captain Shivnath Dahiya (IN)

No 45 Flying Daggers Squadron
Production Line / Aircraft / Aircraft Serial # / Aircraft First Flight / Pilot

Line 1 ... SP-01 ... LA-5001 ... 01-Oct-14 ... Air Commodore Kalianda Appaya Muthanna (Retd)
Line 1 ... SP-02 ... LA-5002 ... 22-Mar-16 ... Group Captain Kolal Krishnamurthy Venugopal (Retd)
Line 1 ... SP-03 ... LA-5003 ... 28-Sep-16 ... Air Commodore Kalianda Appaya Muthanna (Retd)
Line 1 ... SP-04 ... LA-5004 ... 03-Mar-17 ... Group Captain Kolal Krishnamurthy Venugopal (Retd)
Line 2 ... SP-05 ... LA-5005 ... 08-Feb-18 ... Air Commodore Kalianda Appaya Muthanna (Retd)
Line 1 ... SP-06 ... LA-5006 ... 30-Jun-17 ... Group Captain Kolal Krishnamurthy Venugopal (Retd)
Line 1 ... SP-07 ... LA-5007 ... 12-Dec-17 ... Group Captain Kolal Krishnamurthy Venugopal (Retd)
Line 2 ... SP-08 ... LA-5008 ... 13-Mar-18 ... Group Captain Kolal Krishnamurthy Venugopal (Retd)
Line 1 ... SP-09 ... LA-5009 ... 24-Mar-18 ... Air Commodore Kalianda Appaya Muthanna (Retd)
Line 1 ... SP-10 ... LA-5010 ... 26-Jul-18 ... Group Captain Kolal Krishnamurthy Venugopal (Retd)
Line 2 ... SP-11 ... LA-5011 ... 10-Oct-18 ... Group Captain Kolal Krishnamurthy Venugopal (Retd)
Line 1 ... SP-12 ... LA-5012 ...
Line 2 ... SP-13 ... LA-5013 ...
Line 1 ... SP-14 ... LA-5014 ...
Line 2 ... SP-15 ... LA-5015 ...
Line 1 ... SP-16 ... LA-5016 ...
Line 1 ... SP-17 ... KH-T-20XX ...
Line 1 ... SP-18 ... KH-T-20XX ...
Line 1 ... SP-19 ... KH-T-20XX ...
Line 1 ... SP-20 ... KH-T-20XX ...

No 18 Flying Bullets Squadron
Production Line / Aircraft / Aircraft Serial # / Aircraft First Flight / Pilot

Line X ... SP-21 ... LA-5021 ...
Line X ... SP-22 ... LA-5022 ...
Line X ... SP-23 ... LA-5023 ...
Line X ... SP-24 ... LA-5024 ...
Line X ... SP-25 ... LA-5025 ...
Line X ... SP-26 ... LA-5026 ...
Line X ... SP-27 ... LA-5027 ...
Line X ... SP-28 ... LA-5028 ...
Line X ... SP-29 ... LA-5029 ...
Line X ... SP-30 ... LA-5030 ...
Line X ... SP-31 ... LA-5031 ...
Line X ... SP-32 ... LA-5032 ...
Line X ... SP-33 ... LA-5033 ...
Line X ... SP-34 ... LA-5034 ...
Line X ... SP-35 ... LA-5035 ...
Line X ... SP-36 ... LA-5036 ...
Line X ... SP-37 ... KH-T-20XX ...
Line X ... SP-38 ... KH-T-20XX ...
Line X ... SP-39 ... KH-T-20XX ...
Line X ... SP-40 ... KH-T-20XX ...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Future Milestones Planned in 2018, 2019 and 2020

* SP-12 to SP-16 (five birds in all) are are all on the final equipping phase.
* 16 Tejas aircraft are to be delivered in 2019-20 fiscal year.

SP-12 (Line 1) - As of 11 Nov 2018, SP-12 is ready for full performance EGR (engine ground run), with first flight in a week's time.
SP-13 (Line 2) - will be ready for maiden flight in December 2018.
SP-14 (Line 1) - with the LCA Tejas Division.
SP-15 (Line 2) - will be ready for maiden flight in December 2018.
SP-16 (Line 1) - will have its wings from a private manufacturer - Larsen & Tubro.

SP-21 (FOC variant) - Assembly of sets of air fame have already started. Expected to have a first flight in October 2019.
SP-22 (FOC variant) - Assembly of sets of air fame have already started.
SP-23 (FOC variant) - Parts will be up by the first week of December 2018.
SP-24 (FOC variant) - Parts will be up by the first week of December 2018.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Year Over Year Tejas Production

2015-16: One
2017: Two
2018: Five
2019: Eight [Projected]
2020: Sixteen [Vision]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

URL
Abhibhushan wrote:To celebrate completion of 65 years of commissioned service and 50 years since assuming my first command of an operational unit, visited the Flying Daggers for tea and crew room Gup.

The boys are all experienced pilots.

Boys come from varied backgrounds. M2K, Jaguar, MiG-29, MiG-27 are all represented. Soon there will be boys from Su-30MKI as well. The boys were all very upbeat about their present mount.

Some snippets from crew room chatter.

the Mk1 is better than Unupgraded M2K
talk about difficulties with maintenance exaggerated
intensive operations tried out successfully
lots of scope to increase its might.
if it is compared with all other fighters in the IAF for all-round ability, it will easily be within the top third of the list.

A very happy day for me.
Last edited by ramana on 10 Feb 2018 05:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tejas : News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ramana » 10 Feb 2018 05:55

I changed name to Tejas.
No more LCA.

Thanks,
Ramana

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Re: Tejas : News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby vasu raya » 10 Feb 2018 07:21

Last year someone in an Aero India presentation was saying the couple of GE-414 engines meant for Mk2 had problems and they were contacting GE to resolve it, this seems to have delayed the Mk2 program? Similar to the Cobham delay of Mk1.

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Re: Tejas : News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Indranil » 10 Feb 2018 09:09

NO less than the VK Saraswat directly questioned the GE person in the open forum.

But we will be fooling ourselves by holding GE guilty for delay in Mk2. IT IS US: combination of MOD, MOF, IAF and HAL. Whoever could throw a spanner in the works, did.

The more you know the program, the more you can criticize it. But let’s keep the criticism to it can’t carry enough, can’t fly far enough, and can’t be produced fast enough.

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Re: Tejas : News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby prat.patel » 10 Feb 2018 10:21

What did 'KH' stand for in the serial numbering of prototype vehicles and the LSP birds?
And what does 'LH' stand for in the SP birds?

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Re: Tejas : News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby pushkar.bhat » 10 Feb 2018 10:29

prat.patel wrote:What did 'KH' stand for in the serial numbering of prototype vehicles and the LSP birds?
And what does 'LH' stand for in the SP birds?


All PV's were carrying the series KH which is the abbreviation of Kota Harinarayana. He was the program director LCH. PV's named in his honer. Don't Know what LH stand for.

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Re: Tejas : News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby A Deshmukh » 10 Feb 2018 10:46

Now that 2 lines (5+3/yr) are ON, we should expect quicker inductions. 1 every 1.5 months.
Tejas as the name suggest will be our bright beacon symbolizing the successful established Indian Aviation technology and industry.
Congratulations to all those involved - ADA, HAL, IAF.

When is IAF planning to raise the second Tejas squadron?
I think, two half squadrons might be better, allowing faster training of new pilots and maintenance personnel.

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Re: Tejas : News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Kartik » 10 Feb 2018 12:02

Series production birds are registered starting with LA, not LH

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Re: Tejas : News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Khalsa » 10 Feb 2018 13:31

Dear Admiral Congrats on kicking off the latest thread.
Ramana, thanks for calling it Tejas.
Thats what ABV meant and thats we ought to be calling it.

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Re: Tejas : News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby fanne » 10 Feb 2018 18:59

Iaf has already earmarked the second squadron for Tejas (the one with only iaf pvc earned).

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Re: Tejas: News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Rakesh » 10 Feb 2018 19:41

Yup, No 18 Flying Bullets Sqn is the next one. Once that is raised, we can amend the above list to include that.

And thank you Ramana-ji for amending the title to include Tejas. My bad!

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Re: Tejas: News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby fanne » 10 Feb 2018 20:45

I have a feeling 11th plane will go to 18 SQ. It will be collocated with 45.

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Re: Tejas: News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Rakesh » 10 Feb 2018 20:51

Well 40 Tejas Mk1s are scheduled for manufacture. AFAIK, 20 in IOC and 20 in FOC. So perhaps No 45 Sqn will get 20 and No 18 will get the next batch of 20. And yes, the first two squadrons should be housed together at one airbase.

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Re: Tejas: News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Rakesh » 10 Feb 2018 20:57

https://twitter.com/sjha1618/status/962227957916893184 —> Thales is a contender for supplying both the radar and the integrated EW system for the Tejas MK-1A & Safran is involved in the Kaveri engine revival effort. Taken together with the Rafale purchase, it is clear that France is emerging as India's premier collaborator in aerospace.

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Re: Tejas: News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Rakesh » 10 Feb 2018 20:59

https://twitter.com/sjha1618/status/960780531154739201 —> I fully expect the dalal campaign against the Tejas to accelerate, now that production has overcome many teething issues. You'll have more 'talk' quoting 'unnamed' officials speaking about the plane's performance and what not.

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Re: Tejas: News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Vips » 10 Feb 2018 21:08

This would include the Congressi goons acting in tandem with the agents in trying to force the Modi administration to give the total cost and rate break up of the Rafale buy.

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Re: Tejas: News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Rakesh » 10 Feb 2018 22:45

Well, the Modi Govt is tied to the agreement. They have a choice...either cancel the Rafale deal or laugh at the Congress. They are doing the latter. But the Modi Govt will not reveal the cost breakdown of the deal. Not going to happen.

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Re: Tejas: News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby SriKumar » 10 Feb 2018 23:41

This clarification by ramana deseves to be carried over.

Cleared up a lot of confusion about how many Tejas lines, capacity , and thier operational status.

ramana wrote:
The original line is 5/year. Tejas Division. Confirmed
Then comes half line in the Hawk hangar at 3/year. Aircraft Division. Confirmed SP5 from this line ready....

Total 8/year as of now in 2018. Confirmed

The third line is a greenfield line at 8/year at Nekkundi .
A brand new line was approved by CCS in 2017 at Nekkundi that will manufacture 8 per year.
About Rs. 1350 crores funded and line ready 36 months after funds received.Will be open in 2019.

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Re: Tejas : News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 10 Feb 2018 23:47

ramana wrote:I changed name to Tejas.
No more LCA.

Thanks,
Ramana


Good idea. When a I saw the Tejas thread it felt as if at long last there a dream has become real. Now we should also focus more on tactics and operational use Tejas.

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Re: Tejas : News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 10 Feb 2018 23:49

prat.patel wrote:What did 'KH' stand for in the serial numbering of prototype vehicles and the LSP birds?
And what does 'LH' stand for in the SP birds?


Kota Harinarayana ?

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Re: Tejas : News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 10 Feb 2018 23:52

fanne wrote:Iaf has already earmarked the second squadron for Tejas (the one with only iaf pvc earned).


Wow. That is a seriously big deal. Right DJ ?

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Re: Tejas : News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Rakesh » 11 Feb 2018 01:14

Akshay Kapoor wrote:Good idea. When a I saw the Tejas thread it felt as if at long last there a dream has become real. Now we should also focus more on tactics and operational use Tejas.

The dream indeed has come alive.

On the bolded part, that is happening in full swing. And she is doing great from what I have read.

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Re: Tejas : News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Katare » 11 Feb 2018 02:13

Indranil wrote:NO less than the VK Saraswat directly questioned the GE person in the open forum.

But let’s keep the criticism to it can’t carry enough, can’t fly far enough, and can’t be produced fast enough.


Would you happen to have saved a link about VKS confronting the ge guy?

If the later part is true (not sarcasm) than it’s got to be all in ADA’s court with poor aircraft design, right? Engine is already flying in other aircrafts so what gives?

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Re: Tejas: News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Rakesh » 11 Feb 2018 02:24

Karate, I am sure IR meant the latter in sarcasm.

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Re: Tejas: News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby vasu raya » 11 Feb 2018 02:37

IR meant not to talk about mismanagement of the program and everything else is open, lest H&D issues come up. Its only the Mk1 thats flying to even criticize.

Anyways, the Kaveri bit is promising and hopefully its the 414 equivalent

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Re: Tejas: News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Kakkaji » 11 Feb 2018 03:19

I am so glad to hear about SP-5 finally flying. Been waiting for a long time and getting worried.

It shows that our processes for pre-flight testing and validation are quite robust, and detected the problems in time. Subsequent troubleshooting also took time, but finally they fixed the problem. I am sure they will apply the lessons learnt to check SP-8 and SP-10 that were being built at the same time on the 1.5 line.

Of all the explanations about the different Tejas lines that have been provided by the Gurus, I think the one provided by tsarkar sahib makes most sense. The original Tejas line at 5/ year in the Tejas Division, and the half line of 3/ year in the Kiran hangar of the aircraft division, and the new second full line coming up at new facilities in Nekkundi.

I do not think the Hawk line should be converted to Tejas. BAe is currently negotiating with the GoI for 20 new Hawks for the Surya Kiran team, for which the Govt of UK is ready to provide soft loans from its Exim bank. I think that offer should be accepted, and it will keep the HAL's Hawk line busy for a while.

India has put in a lot of time and money, in addition to blood, sweat and tears in setting up the Hawk ecosystem in India. I think that instead of abandoning it, we should milk it now. BAe is quite willing to use the Indian facilities for further production of the Hawk for export. There may be demand for Hawk trainers with other air forces in the region and beyond. The Combat Hawk program also, even though it is not suitable for the IAF, may be suitable for other air forces that can be supplied from HAL's facilities in Bangalore. With BAe's support, HAL will develop good experience in exporting and servicing the markets abroad.

Similarly, the Dornier Do-228 also has good prospects now in the civilian market, now that it has obtained the civilian certification. It is a good opportunity for HAL to now milk this platform to build its civilian business.

In other words, the space in the HAL aircraft division can be kept fully utilized with these and with MRO tasks on the Jaguar and other legacy aircraft.

I think HAL's second, and further, Tejas lines should be built at Nekkundi. I don't know how much land is available there, but this new facility should be built at a large scale with the layout to add additional production lines as needed. Let this be the new Tejas/ AMCA complex where, gradually over the years, we should have 10 production lines manufacturing the Tejas/ AMCA in different combinations. No more fooling around trying to squeeze Tejas/ AMCA production in old space.

My dream - 500 Tejas + 200 AMCA in IAF colours in 2035. 8)

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Re: Tejas: News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ramana » 11 Feb 2018 03:48

A trivial example.
Yesterday the brass water tap was leaking . Don't know for how long. I thought the gardner didn't use enough teflon tape to seal the threads. Turns out the brass tap had a linear crack. Most likely there was a flaw in the material and when wrenched tight the crack manifested.
The tap is brand name sold at brand name garden supply. The gardener had installed many such taps. So whats root cause? Its the material flaw in tsap that maifested after installation.

Now relate this to hydraulic leaks on SP5 during high speed taxi trials!

Things go wrong. Need to fix and move on.

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Re: Tejas: News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Indranil » 11 Feb 2018 06:33

Ramana garu,

You have ears near the ground as well. Let's not talk details though. All is well. SP5 has flown.

Others,
The second line is at the Hawk facility. Don't know how many times, I have to repeat it :D

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Re: Tejas: News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby SriKumar » 11 Feb 2018 06:54

In the early stages of LCA flights, I had read that every 2 months the entire aircraft would be dis-mantled, checked for issues and then 're-mantled' and flown again. This was done over and over. Is it still being done for any of PVs and the LSPs that are flying now? A related question: what is the longest-flying LCA that is still flying? I assume some would have accumulated a few hundred hours? Those crafts are very important....'cose any issues that come up due to aging/wear tear will show up on those craft first...which is the safer way to find out about future issues.

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Re: Tejas: News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby prasannasimha » 11 Feb 2018 08:05

The first aircraft is now in the HAL museum in Bangalore. I think another us on static display in front of the HALoffice in Minsk square

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Re: Tejas: News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Bhaskar_T » 11 Feb 2018 08:05

I Googled this location Nekkundi, there is one Nekkundi near Thipassandra, East Bangalore, Karnataka and there is one Nekkundi near KrishnaGiri, Tamil Nadu. So, the Nekkundi in Bangalore is the one which is going to manufacture Tejas, right?

Secondly, assuming we start delivering 6-8 Tejas/year in near future, do we have new Pilots (recently joined squadron) taking Tejas training already, a bit in advance, so that all the Tejas (as HAL keeps delivering) on Tarmak at any point of time would get good flying? So, do we have 7 Pilots flying these 7SP's + Trainer and may be 3 new Pilots taking training (on simulator and Trainer) already? What is the Pilots resourcing strategy, do we simply get pilots from retiring Might squadrons or is it going/should be a reasonable mix of pilots from all type of fighter pilots? I think fresh recruit(s) from NDA, even after completing their courses, won't get their hands on Tejas soon enough.

Thirdly, wouldn't someone in HAL Tejas manufacturing division be scratching their heads that in about 1-2 year timeframe, they would need to start delivering Tejas in FOC standard whereas officially there is no word on where are we wrt FOC standard? Wouldn't manufacturing folks need to finalise their FOC standard drawings, slight retuning of tooling etc soon enough? (If I recall correctly both HAL and ADA have stopped giving FOC timelines although we do hear from various sources that FOC is progressing well).

PS - Apologies for Nanha Abdul type questions.

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Re: Tejas: News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ramana » 11 Feb 2018 09:20

IR, School.of hard knocks.

Once I had to troubleshoot water lines for cooling water
Original design used stainless steel fitting to be torqued. Now stainless is finicky. Could have local hard spots. No amount of torque was preventing leaks. Fittings were designed for oil which is viscous while application was water. I suggested copper concical seal which would deform.and provide seal. No leaks for decades.

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Re: Tejas: News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Khalsa » 11 Feb 2018 13:25

Rakesh wrote:Karate, I am sure IR meant the latter in sarcasm.



Dear Admiral
I am sure you did a typo in his name but it was a deadly outcome.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: Tejas : News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Khalsa » 11 Feb 2018 13:27

Akshay Kapoor wrote:
fanne wrote:Iaf has already earmarked the second squadron for Tejas (the one with only iaf pvc earned).


Wow. That is a seriously big deal. Right DJ ?


Dear Akshay saar, Yes it is confirmed.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/pvc-recipient-sekhon-s-squadron-to-fly-again/502125.html

The kid in me sees the Gnat Legacy link.
Although they did fly the 27s too.

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Re: Tejas: News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby fanne » 11 Feb 2018 20:16

IAF has shown its intent vis a vis LCA. No 45 sq has very high profile people (M200, M29, JAGS, SU30MKI pilots, all very experienced and decorated, some of them at top of their game) trying to shake out LCA. No 18 (a very decorated sq) is already earmarked even when No 45 is not even 1/3rd done. It is taking PV-6 and flying all kind of dignitaries and IAF top/middle brass and show casing it to the Force (a proposal perhaps picked from BRF).
I think now we can only fail at three things -
1) HAL dropping the ball on delivering LCA MK 1 of high quality in time (I am bothered by HAL insisting that most of it has been passed to private party and if they delay, then it's their problem, not HAL)
2)Short term planning and decision making (what radars, EW package) and long term - what next variant, approvals in time taking lead time in perspective (i.e. decision need to be taken 2-3 years in advance, like what should be follow on the first 20 batch if FOC is not complete by x date, should another 16 be built on pre FOC standard? That decision was perhaps due few months ago)
3)Should there be a follow on LCA - mk 2 , mk 3 or AMCA and what should be the total number? A run of 400 pieces, just to make up the shortfall may be required, but that decision have to be taken soon. IAF/MOD/Dallals/HAL/ADA may not all be on the same page (for many right reasons), but that futuristic planning is the need of the hour. You make an assumption that if we get a engine tech (however) and stealth tech is upto expectation (through ghatak) say 2 years from now, yes lets move to AMCA and drop LCA mk 2/LCA mK 3, but until then, for next two years lets have some funds and work towards that variant. You do not sit idle for two years.

rgds

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Re: Tejas: News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Rakesh » 11 Feb 2018 21:01

Khalsa wrote:
Rakesh wrote:Karate, I am sure IR meant the latter in sarcasm.

Dear Admiral
I am sure you did a typo in his name but it was a deadly outcome.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Aiyoo!! :D

My brains are playing tricks on me! I hope Katare really does not give me a Karate chop or two.

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Re: Tejas: News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby SriKumar » 11 Feb 2018 23:16

fanne wrote:
I think now we can only fail at three things -
1) HAL dropping the ball on delivering LCA MK 1 of high quality in time (I am bothered by HAL insisting that most of it has been passed to private party and if they delay, then it's their problem, not HAL)
rgds
I dont know much about HAL but I think in this respect HAL might be right. It will get real complicated for them to follow up with a 50 different suppliers and keep track of their all the component's build rate, and push them if they are delayed. They will need a new staff of 50 to do this, but more importantly, what pressure-points do they have to force a supplier to supply faster? If they can do like Ajit ...'tumhari maa hamare kabze main hai..... wing panels phoren hamare paas deliver kar do ..warnaa... :D ', then HAL can be held responsible for the delays.

But this is an important thing. THh only way is for someone either in HAL or IAF or MoD to keep (practically) daily or weekly track of the supplier's progress and atleast become aware of an upcoming delay. This will enable them to anticipate, and in cases where a solution is possible, apply the solution. This role probably HAL is best-suited to do (guess I have contradicted myself here :D ), but what that means is that HAL has to be very diligent about tracking every component's progress with every supplier (will likely need dedicated staff to do this) but even now they cannot be held responsible for a delay (how can they pressure the supplier?). The positive from this move is that the suppliers will be more diligent/responsive if they know they are being tracked weekly; and; if HAL senses a delay is coming they know in advance, and escalate the matter.
Last edited by SriKumar on 11 Feb 2018 23:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tejas: News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby SriKumar » 11 Feb 2018 23:17

Guys, Where is that website where the number of flight hours accumulated on each craft used to be posted?
Or was it some poster on this thread who used to compile it? Even number of flights is good enough (each flight used to take about 40 minutes).

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Re: Tejas: News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby srai » 12 Feb 2018 05:00

SriKumar wrote:Guys, Where is that website where the number of flight hours accumulated on each craft used to be posted?
Or was it some poster on this thread who used to compile it? Even number of flights is good enough (each flight used to take about 40 minutes).

http://www.ada.gov.in has been reporting the flights per test platform. Goes all the way back to 2011-12: https://www.ada.gov.in/images/flighttestnewsMain.htm

Here are post IOC-2 flights towards FOC:
Total (IOC-2 -> FOC): 1299 flights (between Jan, 2014 to Jan, 2018) (~ over 800 hours of flight)

Tejas FOC should be near. Typically for 4th Gen fighter platforms, 2000 hours--1200 hours to IOC and another 800 hours to FOC--are the norms.

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Re: Tejas: News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby SriKumar » 12 Feb 2018 07:33

THanks srai. Somehow, googling around did not get me the link. (The link should be a sticky.).
I was curious about the flight hours for any one airframe. LSP5 (379) has done almost as many flights as PV3 (387). About 250-260 hours of flight time (at 40 min per sortie). This is good that the LSPs are being stretched right from the get-go. You want to catch any SP-related issues (relating to wear/tear) first in the LSPs.


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