Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

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tsarkar
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby tsarkar » 30 Apr 2018 11:59

deleted
Last edited by tsarkar on 30 Apr 2018 12:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby tsarkar » 30 Apr 2018 12:00

The only MiG-21 Bison vs F-15/F-16 was Cope India 2004. India had requested not factoring AWACS and AMRAAM that was accepted by USAF.

IAF used Su-30K (not MKI) as a mini AWACS using datalink to vector MiG-21 to attack from directions outside the radar coverage cone of F-15 & F-16 and that surprised the Americans because they thought IAF operated under strict GCI like a straitjacketed communist.

So yes, the Su-30MKI was "covering" the MiG-21 Bison. But not under its wings or fuselage :rotfl: It was "covering" by letting MiG-21 approach from a different direction without using its radar.

The other feedback was MiG-21 Bison with HMDS and R-73E could make snap turns and how it was small and hard to spot, but that was the case with Gnat too.

With 240/360 degree AWACS coverage instead of a fighter radar cone of 70 degrees, the above tactic would be useless.

They made good decisions about when to bring their strikers in. The MiG-21s would be embedded with a (MiG-27) Flogger for integral protection. There was a data link between the Flankers that was used to pass information. They built a very good (radar) picture of what we were doing and were able to make good decisions about when to roll (their aircraft) in and out.”

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Haridas » 30 Apr 2018 12:24

Cain Marko wrote:I wonder if radar can differentiate the two birds if they are flown in very tight formation... Seems like the rambha could carry nanha Tejas in the centerline....iaf has the biggest and the smallest fighter in it's inventory, could have very interesting results


Yes of course, radar can easily differentiate SU30 from Tejas in tight cluster from many decades of miles away. At not just frontal aspect but almost all aspects. DSP has evolved so much even in last 5 years.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby nits » 30 Apr 2018 12:31

Kartik wrote:Just a lovely shot

Image


If Tejas had a twitter account - he would have posted this pic with Title - "Flying with Big Brother"

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Austin » 30 Apr 2018 13:35

As Tejas inches towards final clearance, DRDO chairman explains why the fighter jet programme was delayed

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/a ... 2018-04-29

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby rohan1424 » 30 Apr 2018 14:14

Was able to see the Tejas mobile telemetry center on NH 66 about 18 km from Goa karnataka border. The same was carried by a ADA truck . I think after completing the BVR missile test it was heading back to HAL Yelahanka.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ArjunPandit » 30 Apr 2018 20:49

^^My bad guys, Tsarkar/Haridas, thanks for the informative posts and correcting me

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby kit » 30 Apr 2018 22:42

nits wrote:
Kartik wrote:Just a lovely shot

If Tejas had a twitter account - he would have posted this pic with Title - "Flying with Big Brother"


that literally says light fighter heavy fighter :mrgreen: .. now where is the kat?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby kit » 30 Apr 2018 22:51

“They made good decisions about when to bring their strikers in. The MiG-21s would be embedded with a (MiG-27) Flogger for integral protection. There was a data link between the Flankers that was used to pass information. They built a very good (radar) picture of what we were doing and were able to make good decisions about when to roll (their aircraft) in and out.”

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby kit » 30 Apr 2018 22:54

a few numbers of magnitude above would happen with a Tejas Mark 2 with a super Sukhoi combo ., no wonder the IAF is gungho about its latest baby

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Cain Marko » 01 May 2018 05:36

Haridas wrote:
Cain Marko wrote:I wonder if radar can differentiate the two birds if they are flown in very tight formation... Seems like the rambha could carry nanha Tejas in the centerline....iaf has the biggest and the smallest fighter in it's inventory, could have very interesting results


Yes of course, radar can easily differentiate SU30 from Tejas in tight cluster from many decades of miles away. At not just frontal aspect but almost all aspects. DSP has evolved so much even in last 5 years.

Thanks. I meant it only half seriously based on a scene from taapgaan . :oops: :D

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby darshhan » 01 May 2018 12:58

Cain Marko wrote:
Haridas wrote:
Yes of course, radar can easily differentiate SU30 from Tejas in tight cluster from many decades of miles away. At not just frontal aspect but almost all aspects. DSP has evolved so much even in last 5 years.

Thanks. I meant it only half seriously based on a scene from taapgaan . :oops: :D


There was a similar scene in a recent Tom Cruise movie too, where he plays a smuggler pilot running errands for Pablo Escobar.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby tsarkar » 01 May 2018 14:19

^^ that discussion needs to go to the movie or miscellaneous thread.

What is the latest count of test flights and flight hours from ADA?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Pratyush » 01 May 2018 14:50

tsarkar wrote:^^ that discussion needs to go to the movie or miscellaneous thread.

What is the latest count of test flights and flight hours from ADA?



I think the Matrix should now be changed to hrs of operational flying. As it now a relatively mature platform.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby JayS » 01 May 2018 22:43

tsarkar wrote:^^ that discussion needs to go to the movie or miscellaneous thread.

What is the latest count of test flights and flight hours from ADA?


Its not being updated on ADA site since Feb or so for some reason. FB admin had indicated some 70-80 flights post the stuck counter like a month ago or so. It looks like LCA team is clocking 50-60 flights per month anyhow.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby JayS » 01 May 2018 22:45

Pratyush wrote:
tsarkar wrote:^^ that discussion needs to go to the movie or miscellaneous thread.

What is the latest count of test flights and flight hours from ADA?



I think the Matrix should now be changed to hrs of operational flying. As it now a relatively mature platform.


Do you realy expect IAF to put up that data for public consumption..?

Anyhow we lnow 1000 operational sorties have been surpassed sometime back. We may see some info on some such mile stone in future but dont expect anything really.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Indranil » 02 May 2018 02:48

JayS wrote:
tsarkar wrote:^^ that discussion needs to go to the movie or miscellaneous thread.

What is the latest count of test flights and flight hours from ADA?


Its not being updated on ADA site since Feb or so for some reason. FB admin had indicated some 70-80 flights post the stuck counter like a month ago or so. It looks like LCA team is clocking 50-60 flights per month anyhow.

Over 60 currently. Aim is to reach 80 as stated by ADA chief.

Meanwhile, the BVR tests were one of the most extensive in preparation, and every thing very smoothly. So, hurray!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Prasad » 02 May 2018 09:45

Shot as such is nothing special but gives you a sense of proportion between the 3 planes -
Image
Su-30 MKI Tejas Jaguar Formation 2 by Delhi defence Review, on Flickr

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby darshhan » 02 May 2018 12:00

Prasad wrote:Shot as such is nothing special but gives you a sense of proportion between the 3 planes -
Image
Su-30 MKI Tejas Jaguar Formation 2 by Delhi defence Review, on Flickr


Most interesting would be the result of exercises which feature Tejas and Su30 mkis as opponents. I am sure Tejas would manage to hold its own due to its light weight, agility and low RCS.

These are anyway the top 2 aircraft of IAF followed by Mirage 2000 which would be in distant 3rd place.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby darshhan » 02 May 2018 12:05

If we have tejas and mkis in great numbers(>300), I doubt if we even need any other fighter. I mean what is the point in duplication.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby jaysimha » 02 May 2018 13:09

^^^^^^
My guess is, till we master the technology for Tejas engine we have to buy Rafale

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby shiv » 02 May 2018 14:39


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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Singha » 02 May 2018 15:56

Avro vulcan is a giant

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Pratyush » 02 May 2018 16:05

The Tejas is not that smaller than the J10.

It's quite interesting. The more I learn about Tejas the more I like what we have on our hands.

It's a winner in all respects.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby shiv » 02 May 2018 19:30

Singha wrote:Avro vulcan is a giant

Check A-5 Vigilante - carried borne

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby SaiK » 02 May 2018 19:46

Valkyrie is mammoth with double the wingspan.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Lalmohan » 02 May 2018 20:35

always had a soft spot for the hustler and the valkyrie

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby darshhan » 02 May 2018 21:00

SaiK wrote:Valkyrie is mammoth with double the wingspan.


Was it even mass produced?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Austin » 02 May 2018 21:18

Pratyush wrote:The Tejas is not that smaller than the J10.

It's quite interesting. The more I learn about Tejas the more I like what we have on our hands.

It's a winner in all respects.


My eye ball analysis tells me J-10 is 25-30 % bigger than Tejas , gripen looks roughly the same ~5 % diff

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby SiddharthS » 02 May 2018 23:26

darshhan wrote:If we have tejas and mkis in great numbers(>300), I doubt if we even need any other fighter. I mean what is the point in duplication.

+100

The number of Sukhois as it stands now is enough of an umbrella to carry us over to the complete indigenisation. If we get to 20 LCA per year in FY 2019 and then start adding a new line of 10 every year we will have 270 aircrafts by 2024, at the rate of 70 per year by 2034 the total number of LCA will be 970.

If we play our cards well and ditch the FGFA/PAK-FA we will have AMCA by 2035, the mistake of acquiring FGFA/PAK-FA will most likely kill the AMCA and if it doesn't succeed in the killing it will most certainly delay the project by usurping the funds.

Till 2035 Tejas will act as a spine of a knife while Rafale and Sukhoi will act as a leading edge, from 2035 onwards the AMCA will act as leading edge while Tejas and Rafale will act as a spine.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Philip » 02 May 2018 23:41

But what will we do for the next 15 years without a stealth bird while our enemies operate them from 2020 onwards?
Why I've said that the AMCA should be a 6th-gen. or at least a 5++ gen. bird. Another interim option, making the LCA MK-2 as stealthy as poss. since there is going to be substantial redesign accommodating a new larger engine, etc. But this can't replace long range, long endurance FGFA with PGMs, like BMos- NG carried internally or LR anti-AWACS AAMs .Neither an AMCA or LCA MK-2 will be able to perform as a heavy FGFA an MKI successor.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Cybaru » 03 May 2018 00:57

Oh my gawd, it's the system that matters not a stealth bird or two or three under development... Let
s continue to focus on the whole system dude..

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Vips » 03 May 2018 02:11

SiddharthS wrote:
darshhan wrote:If we have tejas and mkis in great numbers(>300), I doubt if we even need any other fighter. I mean what is the point in duplication.

+100

If we get to 20 LCA per year in FY 2019 and then start adding a new line of 10 every year we will have 270 aircrafts by 2024, at the rate of 70 per year by 2034 the total number of LCA will be 970.


:shock: :eek: Not going to happen in a million years.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Khalsa » 03 May 2018 02:46

For those who are worried that PAF will start operating Chinese Stealth Fighters, have you considered if China would like to hyper-accelerate India's purchase of the F-35 fighter and stand up an IAF that operates Rafale, Su-30 , Tejas & F-35 as its mainstay.

PLAAF and PAF will become POOF.

Okay in all seriousness, the chinese strategy requires these two players (Ind & Pak) to remain generation or two behind while China accelerates forward. Consider also, that India will call this fair game and supply Vietnam and my Aunty with Brahmos missile left right and centre.

Right now it irks China that despite being the dominant other superpower that only court and count North Korea and Pakistan as their bestest friends.
India despite being corrupt cow loving bunch of idiots is seen as the approachable and fun country to go and talk to even though the wheels turn slowly.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby pankajs » 03 May 2018 08:00

Frankly I am at a loss. You see when the IAF chief stated that we can spot the Chinese "stealth" I thought that would have apply to any Chinese supplied PAF fighters too.

Added Later: We do need stealth fighters but we can wait for the Russians to complete their development while focusing on AMCA in parallel.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby tsarkar » 03 May 2018 11:28

Philip wrote:But what will we do for the next 15 years without a stealth bird while our enemies operate them from 2020 onwards?

Errr, to catch an invisible man, one doesnt field another invisible man. One improves detection technology.

That improvement is happening via better detection technology -
RBE2AA + Litening on Rafale
Elta 2052 or equivalent + Litening on Tejas Mk1A
Elta 2084 operated by IAF 230 Signal Unit and other units that ACM Dhanoa referred to as tracking stealth aircraft.
Indigenous development like Arudhra
Elta 2248 operated by Indian Navy
Missiles and systems like LRSAM, Derby, Astra, Spyder.

Do remember a vintage Serbian Pechora shot down a F-117.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zolt%C3%A1n_Dani
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_F-117A_shootdown

The J-20 powered by the below family of engines is supposed to be invulnerable :rotfl:

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/m ... 2015-02-14
Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar shared with Parliament that the Sukhoi-30 MKIs saw 35 engine failures, or power plant-related incidents, in the last two years.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby rkhanna » 03 May 2018 11:56

tsarkar wrote:
Philip wrote:But what will we do for the next 15 years without a stealth bird while our enemies operate them from 2020 onwards?

Errr, to catch an invisible man, one doesnt field another invisible man. One improves detection technology.

Elta 2084 operated by IAF 230 Signal Unit and other units that ACM Dhanoa referred to as tracking stealth aircraft.
Elta 2248 operated by Indian Navy



I thought the 230 SIGINT Unit operated the Green Pine ELTA 2050 and its Indian made varient called the SwordFish. And its the Navy that operates the 2084 Derivative (i.e MF-STAR (ELTA 2248)!!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby tsarkar » 03 May 2018 13:08

rkhanna wrote:I thought the 230 SIGINT Unit operated the Green Pine ELTA 2050 and its Indian made varient called the SwordFish. And its the Navy that operates the 2084 Derivative (i.e MF-STAR (ELTA 2248)!!

It is Signal Unit, not SIGINT. All IAF Radar Units are called Signal Units. 2248 is a ground up development and not a derivative. And you may check the President's Colour Presentation to 230 SU photos to ascertain the radar operated by it.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ramana » 03 May 2018 19:39

Philip, You force me.

Fizzileya will become Invisibleya.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Philip » 03 May 2018 19:52

True, but that's merely detection which isn't fail proof and our 4th-gen birds , Rafales and co., with their underwing AAMs, etc. lacking any modicum of stealth,will arguable be at a definite detection disadvantage in comparison with a stealth bird carrying BVR AAMs in internal bays.

Secondly, China's stealth aircraft have made only a brief visit to Tibet as of now and have yet to be permanently based there. These aircraft too aren't final series production ones one gathers from rrports. I wonder therefore how we could make such statements about the ease of detection with a limited look at it from afar.This is unless our AWACS aircraft have been snooping around a bit during its deployment apart from our front line MKIs.

However, whatever the truth If the matter, there is no escaping the fact that China ( and Pak later) will be fielding 5th- gen stealth aircraft from 2020 onwards and in the 15 years until our AMCA hopefully arrives, will definitely field improved variants , superior to our 4++ birds.It is imperative that we operate a 5th-gen fighter from 2020+, asap and maintain our qualitative edge over the PLAAF and PAF. Whether it is a std. version of the SU-57 bought out, or a definitive IAF variant is another issue.
Just as we did with the SU-30 acquisition, initial SU-57s could be returned later on after the "MkI" variant of the SU-57 is developed.


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