Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Rakesh » 09 Aug 2018 09:00

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1027150141101408256 ---> HAL chief T. Suvarna Raju takes a spin in an LCA Tejas (PV5). The trainer was was piloted by Group Captain KK Venugopal.

Image

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Philip » 09 Aug 2018 09:50

If the IAF is going to take over HAL what happens to the ADA? Frankly it is the ADA that should come under the IAF's jurisdiction as it is the core design entity for present and future needs.HAL must be geared up and overhauled management- wise as the OEM, along with pvt. sector entities so that there is healthy competition and increased prod. facilities in the country.
Last edited by ramana on 09 Aug 2018 20:45, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: edited by ramana to fix the spelling.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Trikaal » 09 Aug 2018 11:39

Philip wrote:If the IAF is goinv to take over HAL what happens to the ADA?.Frankly it is yhe ADA thag should comd jndef yhd IAF's jurisdiction as ig is ghd core desibn dntity gor preseng and future needs.HAL must be geared up and overhauled management- wise.as the OEM, along with pvt. sector entities so that yhete is healthy competition and increased prod. facilities in thd country.

Sir, your russian-english translator is failing. Time to get a new one :rotfl: (Just kidding)

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby disha » 09 Aug 2018 21:55

http://zeenews.india.com/india/lca-tejas-will-be-iafs-backbone-for-several-years-hal-chief-2131699.html

This is the trainer version:

"In a thrilling set of manoeuvres, the aircraft climbed to 30,000 feet and accelerated to supersonic speed of 1.1 Mach. This was followed by a simulated launch of Beyond Visual Range missile on a target of opportunity. It is a wonderful flying machine, capable of being the backbone of IAF combat power in the years to come," said Raju after the sortie.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Kakkaji » 10 Aug 2018 00:54

I wish the HAL Chief would deliver one aircraft, instead of one press story, every month. :roll:

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ramana » 10 Aug 2018 03:55

I am hoping now that he has flown in one, he will deliver aircraft on schedule to make the Tejas the backbone of the IAF.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby pushkar.bhat » 10 Aug 2018 09:21

IAF has a history of doing all the assembly that HAL does at Bangalore. 1 BRD Kanpur and 3 BRD in Chandigarh have a stellar history of delivery. They have delivered on the Mid Life Upgrades of AN-32's and MI-17's respectively. The IAF will be building the LCA at cost, so they reduce the cost per unit at least some x%.

Additionally, I am not sure how production in a BRD gets treated for State and Central GST. Do they also pay taxes?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Kakarat » 10 Aug 2018 19:28

https://www.ada.gov.in/

· 4102th flight on 10th Aug

TD1 : 233 PV1: 245 PV3: 387 LSP1: 74 LSP3:422 LSP5: 419

TD2 : 305 PV2: 222 PV5: 219 LSP2: 317 LSP4: 371 LSP7: 304

NP1: 73 LSP8 : 238 PV6:197 NP2: 68 SP6:8


Seems rigorous testing underway in both Tejas and LCA Navy, they have been 32 flights (22+10) in the first 10 days of aug. LSP8 is back flying after about a month & hoping for some good news on AAR


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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ramana » 10 Aug 2018 23:38




Austin, As an academic exercise we should list the 7 rules and see how Tejas scored on each of them.

Can some one put them in a table and put check mark and comment section?

See the average development to production is 17 to 18 years even with all these tools in place.

Now compare Tejas time to production with all these ab initio efforts.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby nam » 11 Aug 2018 01:45

First flight 2001, FOC 2018. 17 years. Even if we have had a ecosystem, we would have shaved off a max of 3/4 years. So a first attempt with delay of 3-4 years, I would say an outstanding achievement.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Trikaal » 11 Aug 2018 09:40

nam wrote:First flight 2001, FOC 2018. 17 years. Even if we have had a ecosystem, we would have shaved off a max of 3/4 years. So a first attempt with delay of 3-4 years, I would say an outstanding achievement.


Only problem-No FOC yet or expected before
2019 :rotfl:
But still, it has been a very good effort to produce a more than decent workhorse aircraft. If only HAL gets it's act together and starts meeting deadlines, everything will be fine.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby nam » 11 Aug 2018 13:23

Trikaal wrote:
nam wrote:First flight 2001, FOC 2018. 17 years. Even if we have had a ecosystem, we would have shaved off a max of 3/4 years. So a first attempt with delay of 3-4 years, I would say an outstanding achievement.


Only problem-No FOC yet or expected before
2019 :rotfl:
But still, it has been a very good effort to produce a more than decent workhorse aircraft. If only HAL gets it's act together and starts meeting deadlines, everything will be fine.


What they are calling now as FOC is not what was planned to be achieved. There was no IFR, no SDR, no new datalinks in the initial plans. So if they achieve this by 2019, it is even better than what was done so far.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Trikaal » 11 Aug 2018 13:35

^IFR was there, so was gun trials and BVR missile integration. Data links, improved mission computer, digital display, friend-or-foe identification(IFF) , SDR, terrain maps are new.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby nam » 11 Aug 2018 13:40

IFR, along with EW & AESA was for MK1A, not for FOC. Just IFR alone must have added more test flights to the schedule.
Gun trials, I presume was postponed, as a gun pod can be used if required till then.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ramana » 12 Aug 2018 10:46

Tejas harnesses in UP defence corridor.
HAL to invest 1200 crore for Tejas and SU30 parts

https://twitter.com/Aryanwarlord/status ... 70816?s=19

https://t.co/tH9SHw5Lec?amp=1

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Gyan » 12 Aug 2018 16:15

ramana wrote:Gyan, The requirements are a mix of musts and wants with sundry sources giving these out.
The musts not yet accomplished are:
Gun firing in air
Air to air refueling
Self jamming pod
Wants are:
Software defined radio
This could end up with avionics impact.

HAL has two lines 5+3 aircraft division.
And 8 in the new facility. Total 16 ac/year.


My only issue is whether the production of next batch of 20 LCA aircraft will be stalled waiting for foc or this production will continue even if a foc is awaited. There are seriously contradictory reports on this issue
If we consider the problems other indigenous products are facing then my fear is that the production of LCA may be stalled for the next batch till foc is obtained which means a delay of around two years compared to the situation where the production continues smoothly without waiting for the foc

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ramana » 14 Aug 2018 06:32

So on Tejas Mk1A, what WVR missile is being proposed?
I know its qualified for R-73 and Python 5 had vibration problem.
ASRAAM was proposed.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Kartik » 17 Aug 2018 00:57

Can anyone (Indranil perhaps with your sources?) confirm if the Tejas' ejection seat is reclined? If so, at what angle? Gripen seat recline is 28 degrees and F-16 is 30 degrees. Supposedly helps in increasing G load tolerance for the pilot.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ramana » 17 Aug 2018 01:19

Due to the sine angle of the ejection action?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Indranil » 17 Aug 2018 02:12

Kartik wrote:Can anyone (Indranil perhaps with your sources?) confirm if the Tejas' ejection seat is reclined? If so, at what angle? Gripen seat recline is 28 degrees and F-16 is 30 degrees. Supposedly helps in increasing G load tolerance for the pilot.

It's reclined. Have forgotten the amount. Can find out. But why do you ask?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Kartik » 17 Aug 2018 03:35

Just out of curiosity Indranil.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Indranil » 17 Aug 2018 04:47

Nearly 30. seventeen.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby JayS » 17 Aug 2018 18:16

Kartik wrote:Can anyone (Indranil perhaps with your sources?) confirm if the Tejas' ejection seat is reclined? If so, at what angle? Gripen seat recline is 28 degrees and F-16 is 30 degrees. Supposedly helps in increasing G load tolerance for the pilot.


OT:
I remember, brar posted something stating USAF reduced the angle of inclination on F35 as the 30deg angle in F16 was found through experience to be lacking in some aspect (can't remember what that was it).

But if you look through some discussions on F16.net you will see many posters including those who seems to be former F16 pilots say that the inclination angle didn't really do much in terms of helping in sustaining higher G but rather LM had to recline the seats due to limited space in cockpit. The gain in ease of sustaining G-load due to 30deg angle is marginal.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ks_sachin » 17 Aug 2018 18:32

Indranil wrote:
Kartik wrote:Can anyone (Indranil perhaps with your sources?) confirm if the Tejas' ejection seat is reclined? If so, at what angle? Gripen seat recline is 28 degrees and F-16 is 30 degrees. Supposedly helps in increasing G load tolerance for the pilot.

It's reclined. Have forgotten the amount. Can find out. But why do you ask?

Wondering if in my old age when the first lot of about 600 LCAs are retired i can get a second hand efection seat to convert into a comfy recliner!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Indranil » 17 Aug 2018 23:58

It could have, had it been a recliner. It is only reclined. And the comfortable part is questionable. But these are solvable problems

Image

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ArjunPandit » 18 Aug 2018 01:08

ks_sachin wrote:
Indranil wrote:It's reclined. Have forgotten the amount. Can find out. But why do you ask?

Wondering if in my old age when the first lot of about 600 LCAs are retired i can get a second hand efection seat to convert into a comfy recliner!

beware of your grand kids pulling the ejection belt!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ks_sachin » 18 Aug 2018 02:58

At that age i will be strapped so tight that there is only one way up!!!!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ArjunPandit » 19 Aug 2018 23:03

Rakesh wrote:New Tejas thread started with excellent reference info below, thanks to BRF Members --> Ashish Raval, Kartik, Fanne and Kakarat.
Production Line / Aircraft / Aircraft Serial # / Aircraft First Flight / Pilot

Line 1 ... SP-01 ... LA-5001 ... 01-Oct-14 ... Air Commodore K A Muthanna (Retd)

Rakesh sir, i copied this table (with some modifications) to wiki and reference my beloved page over there. Thanks to you for compiling this so beautifully. This needs to accessible to those that are aware of BRF too.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Rakesh » 19 Aug 2018 23:16

Aiyoo! Please don't call me Sir.

And apart from cut-and-paste, I did nothing. Folks like Ashish Raval, Kartik, Fanne, Kakarat and others are the ones who mine for the info. Team effort by everyone.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ArjunPandit » 20 Aug 2018 00:39

Rakesh wrote:Tejas Mk 1: 40 aircraft in 2 squadrons. As of today, nine aircraft have been delivered (from SP-1 to SP-9). Production numbers have been steadily increasing, with one aircraft delivered in 2014, two aircraft delivered in 2016, three aircraft delivered in 2017 and three aircraft delivered to date in 2018. From 2019 onwards, both lines are expected to churn out 16 aircraft in total or 8 per line each year. With 31 Mk1s left to deliver, it will take ~ 2 years to complete that production run.

Up to this point, it is more or less somewhat on schedule. The last two below are the iffy ones.

Tejas Mk 1A: 83 aircraft in 4 squadrons. No timeline on when these aircraft are expected to join the IAF. But I believe the plan is to commence Mk1A production, once the Mk1 is done. So let us assume by January 2021, Mk1A production begins. If both lines are still churning out Tejas at 16 aircraft/yr, it will take a little over 5 years to complete that production run. So by 2026, Mk 1A is complete or at least that is the plan.

Rakesh sir
Could you please keep this part in the first post as well. Just for tracking purposes
I am adding this also to wiki so that it could be accurately tracked
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_HAL_Tejas

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Rakesh » 20 Aug 2018 01:22

ArjunPandit, I will add the above about the Mk1. But let us wait for more concrete info on the Mk1A.

And please, I request again to not call me Sir.

Centre initiates multiple efforts to fast track LCA Tejas production
https://www.theweek.in/news/india/2018/ ... ction.html

Minister of State for Defence Subhash Bhamre informed the Parliament that several measures are being taken to fast track the production of LCA Tejas and achieve FOC given by Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA). He said the government has sanctioned Rs.1381.04 crore for ramping up production capacity from existing eight aircraft to 16 aircraft annually and established second line for structural and equipping activities at aircraft division of HAL. The other steps initiated to fast track the production of LCA Tejas include increase in the number of jigs for front, centre and rear fuselages and wings, reduction in manufacturing cycle time through improved supply chain management, learning and augmentation of manpower and modularisation of electrical looms for reduction of cycle time of aircraft looming, he said.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Rakesh » 20 Aug 2018 02:17

I understood (in principle) of the following;

- Increasing the number of jigs
- Reducting in manufacturing cycle time via supply chain mgmt
- improved manpower productivity

But can someone please enlighten me what is modularisation of electrical looms for reduction of cycle time of aircraft looming?

Added Later: Is it this?




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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby SaiK » 20 Aug 2018 02:27

so, squadron 45 does have derby now/certified.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ramana » 20 Aug 2018 06:50

CSIR completes Tejas HUD development.

https://twitter.com/strategic_front/sta ... 67233?s=19

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Rishi_Tri » 20 Aug 2018 06:56

ramana wrote:CSIR completes Tejas HUD development.

https://twitter.com/strategic_front/sta ... 67233?s=19


True Make in India indeed.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Nishn » 20 Aug 2018 07:57

Electrical wire looming in aircraft manufacturing is one of the biggest pain in the a.. jobs there could ever be. Its like running a single wire from the front switch ( input) to the output that could be at the tail end of the aircraft. And you've got a thousand of them running through the aircraft. This was the traditional case.
When you make it modular, that one piece of wiring terminates at multiple sections and they are hooked up by plug-in connectors. So if there is a fault in the wiring, a quick built-in test or on a lap-top by ground crew, can tell where exactly the fault is and can easily be trouble-shot and rectified. This helps speed up the production line as well. If this is being carried out, there is going to be a lot of real estate space savings on the aircraft.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Dileep » 20 Aug 2018 13:38

ramana wrote:CSIR completes Tejas HUD development.

https://twitter.com/strategic_front/sta ... 67233?s=19

I don't get it!! The MK1 HUD is in production already. The MK2 HUD is in PDR stage. So, what goes NOW?

History shows that the CSIO HUD beat all the competition hands down, and withstood pressure from various interests in its way to deployment on board Tejas. It may not look sexy like the Rafale's frameless one, but functionally it is as good or better I hear. The frameless looks better from the outside onlee. Once you are sitting in the seat, you don't see the frame at all!!

The entire optics is machined and polished at CSIO. Building a wide area lens system with no visible abberation is a great achievement indeed.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Neela » 20 Aug 2018 14:25


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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby JayS » 20 Aug 2018 19:28

Dileep wrote:
ramana wrote:CSIR completes Tejas HUD development.

https://twitter.com/strategic_front/sta ... 67233?s=19

I don't get it!! The MK1 HUD is in production already. The MK2 HUD is in PDR stage. So, what goes NOW?

History shows that the CSIO HUD beat all the competition hands down, and withstood pressure from various interests in its way to deployment on board Tejas. It may not look sexy like the Rafale's frameless one, but functionally it is as good or better I hear. The frameless looks better from the outside onlee. Once you are sitting in the seat, you don't see the frame at all!!

The entire optics is machined and polished at CSIO. Building a wide area lens system with no visible abberation is a great achievement indeed.


Perhaps an official closure of development phase of the project..?? Or the reporter here got late to the party.. :P


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