Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Gyan » 09 Sep 2018 10:01

We need to use Kaveri for AJT, CAS, UAV variants of LCA.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby putnanja » 10 Sep 2018 11:15

Air to air fuel transfer took place today for Tejas for the first time, as per Tarmak007 on facebook ! Great going!

Tarmak007
38 mins ·
#TejasFOCUpdate
Fuel transfer from IL-78 to #Tejas is a reality now. After dry contact trials couple of days back, 1st ever air-to-air refuelling has undertaken today. "It just happened," says a source. Congratulations to #IAF, HAL, ADA & NFTC teams.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby tsarkar » 10 Sep 2018 12:07

fanne wrote:and the vehicle earmarked for that is PV-6

Unlikely.

PV-6 is one of the two trainer prototypes heavily engaged in FOC flight testing of the Trainer version and training IAF pilots of 45 and 18th squadron.

Adding an engine testing function will seriously encumber the first two roles.

Logically doesnt add up. What is the source of your information?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Khalsa » 10 Sep 2018 13:46

Well congratulations to all of you and me.
We should be celebrating if this is now confirmed via two sources that fuel was transferred.
Well done to all of us again.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby nam » 10 Sep 2018 14:06

Wonderful stuff. It must have been an interesting analysis to update the FBW for fuel transfer, with CG shifting all over the place and that too in mid air .
Top notch stuff. In another year, it will be flying with a AESA radar. AESA, top notch BVR, FBW, Refuelling, Indian, Israel, Russian weapons, top notch engine.

Compare this to the jokers on the western border, who tom tom a plane, which have no clear video of ever firing a BVR. :rotfl:

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ArjunPandit » 10 Sep 2018 14:59

let's hope this sees IAF asking for bigger orders than the one right now..

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby nam » 10 Sep 2018 15:08

ArjunPandit wrote:let's hope this sees IAF asking for bigger orders than the one right now..


123 is already for MK1+MK1A. Then there will be MK2 orders of atleast 100/123. Overall close to 250. That is equal to SU-30 orders.

IAF has committed. It is now for HAL to buckle up.

Another point that is not obvious, LCA has a perfect update plan going in. MK1 FOC, MK1A, MK2 all planned up with incremental capability added in each tranche. No other jet in IAF inventory has such a future planned up. The closest may be Jags with their Darin program.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Mukesh.Kumar » 10 Sep 2018 15:17

:D :D Gladdens the Jingo heart. In Tejas, we have an Indian solution to Indian problems. Now if only the following happened:
  1. Quick ASEA Integration
  2. Get the Kaveri onboard and further reduce scope of sanctions
  3. HAL stops getting their 'chaddis' in a twist and ramp up production to 16 birds a year
  4. Assured govt orders as the IAF gets accustomed and develop tactics
  5. Exports to Africa/ Lat-Am
  6. A dorsal mounted death ray
:mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Khalsa » 10 Sep 2018 15:38

nam wrote:Wonderful stuff. It must have been an interesting analysis to update the FBW for fuel transfer, with CG shifting all over the place and that too in mid air .
Top notch stuff. In another year, it will be flying with a AESA radar. AESA, top notch BVR, FBW, Refuelling, Indian, Israel, Russian weapons, top notch engine.
Compare this to the jokers on the western border, who tom tom a plane, which have no clear video of ever firing a BVR. :rotfl:


Indeed Saar Indeed.
However even if they produce a 4K video of fuel transfer and BVR firing, it is nothing but the equivalent of us producing Su-30 MKIs taking fuel from IL-78.
Now they of course believe its a Paki plane, let them continue to believe so.
Its as Paki as the Su-30 MKI or Mig-21 is an Indian plane.

With Tejas

Jo Bhi Kiya
Humne Kiya
SHAAN Se !
;-)

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby tsarkar » 10 Sep 2018 15:41

nam wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:let's hope this sees IAF asking for bigger orders than the one right now..
123 is already for MK1+MK1A. Then there will be MK2 orders of atleast 100/123. Overall close to 250.

Its clear both of you didnt buy the 324 T Shirt.

Rakesh, Indranil, Jay - please make buying and wearing the 324 T Shirt mandatory before giving posting rights on this thread :D

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Manish Jain » 10 Sep 2018 15:46

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1039093275972358144

BREAKING: Light Combat Aircraft LSP8 successfully completes first wet mid-air refuel today. Takes 1900 Kgs fuel from an IAF IL-78M at 20000 ft.


Time to deploy Lungis.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ashishvikas » 10 Sep 2018 15:50

^^ they are doing it quite quickly now.. I thought moving to actually transferring of fuel after dry contact will take months.. but it all happened so quickly.
Congratulations :D

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby chetak » 10 Sep 2018 16:09

Mukesh.Kumar wrote::D :D Gladdens the Jingo heart. In Tejas, we have an Indian solution to Indian problems. Now if only the following happened:
  1. Quick ASEA Integration
  2. Get the Kaveri onboard and further reduce scope of sanctions
  3. HAL stops getting their 'chaddis' in a twist and ramp up production to 16 birds a year
  4. Assured govt orders as the IAF gets accustomed and develop tactics
  5. Exports to Africa/ Lat-Am
  6. A dorsal mounted death ray
:mrgreen: :mrgreen:


Not to rain on anyone's parade but:

Let's get the house in order before we talk of "exports".

Everyone remembers what happened to ALH "exports".

Let's first master walking before we dream of sprinting.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Rakesh » 10 Sep 2018 16:37

Manish Jain wrote:https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1039093275972358144

BREAKING: Light Combat Aircraft LSP8 successfully completes first wet mid-air refuel today. Takes 1900 Kgs fuel from an IAF IL-78M at 20000 ft.

Time to deploy Lungis.

Excellent news! Kudos to the team and to Wing Commander Siddharth Singh who flew LSP-8.

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1039097202537373696 ---> Big step for India’s LCA Tejas fighter as it takes fuel mid-air for the first time. Congratulations to the flight test team! This flight piloted by Wing Commander Siddharth Singh at 9:30 a.m. today from Gwalior.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby souravB » 10 Sep 2018 16:45

That HUD looks cool without much clutter. Do we know which HUD is this?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Ashokk » 10 Sep 2018 16:54

Image

Tejas completes key midair refueling trial
BENGALURU: Just days after the successful ‘dry contact’ with the Indian Air Force’s (IAF) IL-78 midair tanker aircraft, Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas on Monday completed the first midair refueling trial, which is one of the things required for the aircraft to obtain the Final Operational Clearance (FOC) which has missed several deadlines already.

On September 4 and 6, the Tejas had made a dry contact with the IL-78 exhibiting the plane’s ability to dock the refueling probe. On Monday, the Tejas Limited Series Production aircraft number eight (Tejas LSP-8) “successfully completed the Wet (actual) engagement by transferring 1,900 kg fuel from IL-78 midair refueling tanker.”


The refueling was carried out at an altitude of 20,000 ft. The aircraft speed was 270 knots and all the internal tanks and drop tanks were refueled. A few days ago, the successful dry docking of aerial refueling probe with mother tanker was carried out on September 4 and 6, 2018,” HAL, the manufacturer of the fighter said in a statement.

Piloted by Wing Commander Siddharth Singh of the National Flight Test Centre (NFTC), the refueling took place at about 9.30am with designers from HAL and Aeronautical Development Agency — which designed and developed Tejas — closely monitoring the system parameters from the ground station at Gwalior.

“The performance of aircraft systems (mainly Fuel & Flight controls systems) during the trial were in line with the design requirements and closely matched with the results of extensive ground tests of air-to-air refueling system,” the statement read.

With this, India joins the elite group of countries who have developed the Air-to-Air (AAR) system for military class of aircraft, HAL’s new CMD R Madhavan said in his first statement to the media since taking charge earlier this month.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby JTull » 10 Sep 2018 17:30

On September 4 and 6, the Tejas had made a dry contact


so this was atleast the 3rd sortie out of 10 that are required for qualification.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ArjunPandit » 10 Sep 2018 17:33

tsarkar wrote:
nam wrote:123 is already for MK1+MK1A. Then there will be MK2 orders of atleast 100/123. Overall close to 250.

Its clear both of you didnt buy the 324 T Shirt.

Rakesh, Indranil, Jay - please make buying and wearing the 324 T Shirt mandatory before giving posting rights on this thread :D

I thought that was not in firm orders..my bad...
nevertheless, admiral sir has mithai left for decades, he should be made to treat people with the few of 324 tshirts/veshti's

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby naruto » 10 Sep 2018 17:47

Ashokk wrote:
The refueling was carried out at an altitude of 20,000 ft. The aircraft speed was 270 knots and all the internal tanks and drop tanks were refueled.


Is it that drop tanks can also be refuelled? Can anyone confirm this.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby JTull » 10 Sep 2018 18:11

naruto wrote:
Ashokk wrote:


Is it that drop tanks can also be refuelled? Can anyone confirm this.


What more confirmation do you want? A phone call from HAL CMD?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Karan M » 10 Sep 2018 18:37

This is really a big deal. A/C can take off with empty tanks (for optimal take off performance), get refuelled in the air. Or they can fly large distances - before getting to the FBA, can fill their tanks and keep their internal fuel available for combat/high maneuverability situations.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby naruto » 10 Sep 2018 18:45

JTull wrote:What more confirmation do you want? A phone call from HAL CMD?


Sorry to bother you, should have posed the question better. I did not know that air to air refuelling can also fill the drop tanks. Until now I thought it was only internal fuel tanks, that is why I asked if someone can confirm that drop tanks can also be filled during air to air refuelling. I got it now.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby nash » 10 Sep 2018 18:54

The refueling was carried out at an altitude of 20,000 ft. The aircraft speed was 270 knots and all the internal tanks and drop tanks were refueled.


This is massive, Tejas with internal fuel and 3 or 1 drop tank(s) then all get refill by A2A refueling. It will give Tejas unprecedented capability in terms of CAP and deep strike.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ArjunPandit » 10 Sep 2018 19:00

After gun trials and aesa the only thing left is to arm the pilot with Rocket launchers

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby naruto » 10 Sep 2018 20:01


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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby tsarkar » 10 Sep 2018 20:13

naruto wrote:Is it that drop tanks can also be refuelled? Can anyone confirm this.

Yes. Whether during ground fueling or mid air refuelling, the external fuel tanks are loaded centrally through the fuel management system.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby tsarkar » 10 Sep 2018 20:22

In this photo Tejas uses the port wing drogue
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmuZrgyWwAA2-SD.jpg:large

In this photo Tejas uses the starboard wing drogue
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dmu8ohYVAAEtRcs.jpg:large

So actually there were two contacts.

The tankers are different too. One is RK3451 and other is RK3452 :wink:

Unless different tankers were used on different days

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby vipins » 10 Sep 2018 20:31

SaiK wrote:
SaiK wrote:no time will be set, until we take a relook at GTRE as an org. We have other performing orgs to learn from and adapt to. Kaveri is extreme engineering, and can't be funded or done this way.

or wait for bail out from safran.

perhaps the later is in effect:
https://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/ebooks ... age27.html

The audit stated that Kaveri engine had attained sufficient level of maturity for carrying out limited envelope flight test integrated with aircraft.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Gagan » 10 Sep 2018 20:33

They did two days of dry runs, before the wet refuel
The starboard one is the dry run
The port one is the actual fuel transfer

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby nam » 10 Sep 2018 20:56

Once LCA with the probe get inducted, it will become the most efficient peace time CAP jet we have. All Mig-21 peace time, jobs on the border will be taken over.

Single engine, F404 Engine with in flight refuel. No other jet in IAF inventory comes close to the fuel efficiency.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby nam » 10 Sep 2018 21:06

There might some niggles about STR/ITR etc, however our endeavor to develop a 4+ Gen with Composite, FBW, BVR, LDP, Refuelling and ability to integrated with weapons of our choice has come to fruition.

Our people have delivered what they promised (may be delayed a bit by 2 years). This is for all the people who said we should have created a simple Mig21 knock off like the JokerFighter-17.

So I say promise the sky, we might just achieve it. :D

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Prasad » 10 Sep 2018 21:13

tsarkar wrote:In this photo Tejas uses the port wing drogue
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmuZrgyWwAA2-SD.jpg:large

In this photo Tejas uses the starboard wing drogue
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dmu8ohYVAAEtRcs.jpg:large

So actually there were two contacts.

The tankers are different too. One is RK3451 and other is RK3452 :wink:

Unless different tankers were used on different days

One tanker on duty, another for backup saar. So there were two in the air on all days.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby chetak » 10 Sep 2018 21:23

nam wrote:There might some niggles about STR/ITR etc, however our endeavor to develop a 4+ Gen with Composite, FBW, BVR, LDP, Refuelling and ability to integrated with weapons of our choice has come to fruition.

Our people have delivered what they promised (may be delayed a bit by 2 years). This is for all the people who said we should have created a simple Mig21 knock off like the JokerFighter-17.

So I say promise the sky, we might just achieve it. :D


One question, saar.

is the AA refuelling system locally developed and qualified ?? or

has an already existing AA refuelling kit with the probe been integrated and then the system qualified on the LCA by flight test??

Maybe we could look at our short legged MiGs too and maybe give them such a AAR capability to possibly extend their utility and operational envelope??
Last edited by chetak on 10 Sep 2018 21:27, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby enaiel » 10 Sep 2018 21:24

Great news! What's left for FOC?

1. BVR [In progress, Derby test fired 2018]
2. In-Flight Refueling [In progress, Wet test completed 2018]
3. Gun Trials [In progress, Ground firing completed 2015?]

Rest everything is completed AFAIK. Anything I'm missing?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby shaun » 10 Sep 2018 21:40

Image

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby nam » 10 Sep 2018 21:42

chetak wrote:
One question, saar.

is the AA refuelling system locally developed and qualified ?? or

has an already existing AA refuelling kit with the probe been integrated and then the system qualified on the LCA by flight test??

Maybe we could look at our short legged MiGs too and maybe give them such a AAR capability to possibly extend their utility and operational envelope??


Read somewhere, it is a Cobham kit( probe) . I don't know how much of the entire fueling setup is local. HAL may have gained experience on Hawk Advanced project.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/hawk1.jpg

There are Mig21s with probes. So countries have done it. Not sure how much IAF is interested in such a option.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby chetak » 10 Sep 2018 21:55

nam wrote:
chetak wrote:
One question, saar.

is the AA refuelling system locally developed and qualified ?? or

has an already existing AA refuelling kit with the probe been integrated and then the system qualified on the LCA by flight test??

Maybe we could look at our short legged MiGs too and maybe give them such a AAR capability to possibly extend their utility and operational envelope??


Read somewhere, it is a Cobham kit( probe) . I don't know how much of the entire fueling setup is local. HAL may have gained experience on Hawk Advanced project.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/hawk1.jpg

There are Mig21s with probes. So countries have done it. Not sure how much IAF is interested in such a option.


Thanks saar.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby SaiK » 10 Sep 2018 22:14

Retractability, thy name is Mk2 probe. Cobham also helped us on Quartz Radome.
======


^^waiting for IL78 amba to feed dvitejasau soon.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Singha » 10 Sep 2018 22:46

great to hear...

Chetak our limitation is not fitting probes to fighters....we have 300+ fighters already with probe (su30, jags, m2k, mig29upg, tejas), but the fact we only have 6 refuelers with limited fuel.

these 6 will be heavily tasked to support the Phalcons in a war situation.

we need the 90 t fuel of the A330 MRTT vs the 40t of the Midas to refuel the hungry heavies and support CAP units all over.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby prasannasimha » 10 Sep 2018 22:54

The refueling probe is fromCobham


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