Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby raghuk » 06 Oct 2018 06:54

8.5?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Kartik » 06 Oct 2018 07:32

Indranil wrote:On Mk1, I came to know of something yesterday which made my lungi flutter quite a lot. I wanted to share it with you, but I was told to hold back a little longer till the TPs can explore that part a bit more. Will let you know as soon as I know. Will make all of you very happy. And then IDRW can go write an exclusive about it :P.

The ferry range of Mk1 without refueling was over 2000 kms with three tanks. With two tanks, they used to fly nonstop from Bangalore to Jodhpur with 500 kgs of fuel left in the tank. I will leave it to you to imagine the range when it is refueled.

FOC is very close now. They are going for the last set of flight test for validating the latest CLAW, avionics and weapon profile. They can finish this in about a month and feel comfortable of clearing the tests. Of no NEW demands come, FOC seems likely by year-end or therabouts.

SP-11 is getting close to get to the air SP-12 and 13 in equipping phase. They should be able to deliver Sp-16 by March of next year.


Thank you IR for this wonderful bit of news!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby pushkar.bhat » 06 Oct 2018 08:58

Indranil wrote:Envelop


If they land in Jodhpur with 500 Kilo's fuel on 2 drop tanks they can do a Charbhar and back with a refuel.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Gyan » 06 Oct 2018 10:38

Indranil wrote:
Gyan wrote:That will mean only 6-7 LCA in one financial year ie 2018-19?

Yes, 7. They are behind schedule. But they will catch up soon. If they deliver 11-16 in (Oct to March), that's 6 aircraft in 6 months.


I regret to note that fits in with my assessment & CAG two year old report that production line for even 8 LCA is not complete.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Indranil » 06 Oct 2018 19:14

^^^ Congratulations! Your assessment of HAL is spot on!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby RKumar » 06 Oct 2018 21:08

^ I sincerely hope, HAL can deliver 6 during next 6 months followed by a Mk-1a sometime in 2019.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Kakarat » 07 Oct 2018 13:15

https://twitter.com/zone5aviation/statu ... 1836242945

The Tejas solo display benefited from a lot of the early morning haze burning off, but still far from ideal. Here's SP-9 cranking it into the sky to commence the demo.


Image
Image

Am I seeing things or is that the Cobham Quartz radome

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Trikaal » 07 Oct 2018 14:54

Amazing shots! Feel like jumping with excitement like a fanboy! We need MOREEE!!!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ks_sachin » 07 Oct 2018 15:07

Indranil wrote:^^^ Congratulations! Your assessment of HAL is spot on!

I detect a hint of sarcasm!!!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby tsarkar » 07 Oct 2018 17:16

Indranil wrote:3. But there is a HUGE learning curve for these newcomers. They are jumping from being Tier III suppliers to being Tier I suppliers. However, they are capable of overcoming this initial hurdle given the capital. This jacks up the per aircraft cost of the LCAs to be built. This is one of the primary reasons why LCAs are costing this much and the jump from Mk1-IOC2 (manufactured inside HAL) to Mk1-FOC to Mk1A. We are paying for this industry to come up. I know that brickbats will always use this to dish LCA in the future. LCA is not a plane for India. It is an entire industry hiding behind just one fighter. But who cares. It takes effort to know the truth. It is much easier to be an ignorant tight-ass and say that an LCA cost as much as a screwdrivered Su-30 (yes, I don't buy HAL's claim that they have the knowhow to build Su-30 from scratch).

This is where MoD can step in to incubate the supplier base. The modernisation of MDL, GRSE and CSL for Type 17, Type 15A & Project 71 was paid for by MoD and not IN or IAF. IAF budgets are more focussed on operationally required acquisition and not industry incubation.

The Tejas suppliers are all based around the Bangalore Hosur region that MoD is trying to develop as an aerospace hub. In addition Tamil Nadu is Nirmala Sitharaman's constituency. She can definitely make a difference here by making a one time investment with a caveat that suppliers amortize the GoI investment during the production run keeping component costs low.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby JayS » 07 Oct 2018 18:03

tsarkar wrote:This is where MoD can step in to incubate the supplier base.


And GOI can help not just with money, but with technology and know-how and with free path through bureaucratic hurdles too. All the engineering tools and know-how that ADA/DRDO/ISRO have should be made available freely to the suppliers to lower entry barriers and overcome some of the uncertainty. The aim of these orgs should be to incubate tier-1 suppliers who can take up ownership of design of modules they manufacture, rather than just a bunch of Make-to-Print suppliers.

The second most important thing to do is giving them written assurances for minimum sustained business for initial decade or so at least.

There are many companies in India with proud and nationalistic men and women willing to work for the Nation and are passionate about their work. unless GOI taps this pool and nurtures them, it will take hell lot longer for them to form a proper MIC.

Things have improved a lot in last few years and attempts are being made in the right direction but we need to scale up the efforts. Intermittent half hearted attempts are not gonna speed up things as hoped.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby JayS » 07 Oct 2018 19:46

I had seen this some time back. Now found a sharable image. They did simulations for buddy IFR from Su-30MKI. I had wished they should check out this option and then I saw image of this simulation somewhere. Almost like my wish was granted. :wink:

Image

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby JayS » 07 Oct 2018 19:47

One more which is sitting on my desktop for quite a while. This is screen grab from AI2017 video that ADA stall was showing. All 1000 ponders...!!

Image

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Neshant » 07 Oct 2018 20:16

Enough trolling. If you can't contribute productively to threads then stay away from them.

-Karan M

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby nam » 07 Oct 2018 20:32

GoI should incubate private enterprise through DRDO. The funding of DRDO of 2 billion annual is peanuts for what is required for build a true MIC.

GoI should increase DRDO budget. DRDO recognise upcoming enterprise by partnering with them on projects. If they are good, then DRDO should be allowed to guarantee orders for them. PSB can then provide them very low interest loans. GoI doesn't even need to fund them, they can provide low interest loans and guranteed orders.

DRDO should have stronger reporting lines to services. This way SME reporting to DRDO, DRDO projects reporting to Services, all working towards Program goals.

Examples already exists. DRDO provided 10 crore aid to a US returned researcher to work on GaN in IISc. And it worked out pretty well.

This should be enlarged.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby tsarkar » 08 Oct 2018 02:01

JayS wrote:Image

5 x 450 kg bombs + 2 x 105 kg R-73E + 208 kg Litening + 2 x 582 kg fuel in 725 litres EFT works out to 3832 kg. Adding weight of pylon adaptors and the weight of empty EFT gives a very respectable 4000 kg payload in that configuration!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ks_sachin » 08 Oct 2018 05:17

nam wrote:GoI should incubate private enterprise through DRDO. The funding of DRDO of 2 billion annual is peanuts for what is required for build a true MIC.

GoI should increase DRDO budget. DRDO recognise upcoming enterprise by partnering with them on projects. If they are good, then DRDO should be allowed to guarantee orders for them. PSB can then provide them very low interest loans. GoI doesn't even need to fund them, they can provide low interest loans and guranteed orders.

DRDO should have stronger reporting lines to services. This way SME reporting to DRDO, DRDO projects reporting to Services, all working towards Program goals.

Examples already exists. DRDO provided 10 crore aid to a US returned researcher to work on GaN in IISc. And it worked out pretty well.

This should be enlarged.


Well said.
However there has to be proactive involvement from services.
I feel that right from NDA youngsters have to be taught about product dev life cycle etc so they understand the challenges in designing and build.
Also perhaps strategic implications of weapons procurement etc.
Would the GOI have said no if the IA said we will work with ARDE and OFB on two small arms designs and bring it to the level reqd.
ARDE - MCIWS
OFB - 7.62 Insas
Then GOI facilitates on prod side by pvt sector involvement.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Indranil » 08 Oct 2018 09:13

tsarkar wrote:
JayS wrote:Image

5 x 450 kg bombs + 2 x 105 kg R-73E + 208 kg Litening + 2 x 582 kg fuel in 725 litres EFT works out to 3832 kg. Adding weight of pylon adaptors and the weight of empty EFT gives a very respectable 4000 kg payload in that configuration!

Those are 800 ltr DFTs. This configuration was already flight tested this summer. Can’t remember if it was Jodhpur or Jaisalmer. Another similar config was a 725 ltr tank instead of the bomb on the centerline.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ks_sachin » 08 Oct 2018 09:43

Indranil
So it can carry a good payload.
Which brings me to a question around CAS.
How wolud the IAF employ the LCA in that role?
Standoff or low and fast.
Has the sq been training for that?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Indranil » 08 Oct 2018 10:19

I don’t think we should discuss tactics in public.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ks_sachin » 08 Oct 2018 11:28

Indranil wrote:I don’t think we should discuss tactics in public.

Ok. But do we need a mud mover in light of payload?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby tsarkar » 08 Oct 2018 11:45

ks_sachin wrote:How wolud the IAF employ the LCA in that role? Standoff or low and fast. Has the sq been training for that?

Sachin these are operations related questions that are very closely guarded secrets. Operational employment is never discussed. Please don't ask such questions.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ks_sachin » 08 Oct 2018 12:22

Ok although my q was to drive something else. My bad should have phrased it diff.

You have not answered my question in the small arms thread though.

S

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby mody » 08 Oct 2018 14:42

For MK1A, will there be a dedicated hardpoint for the EW pod? Currently the Tejas has 8 hardpoints. & for weapons and drop tanks and 1 dedicated point for the Litening pod. For the EW pod being developed, will the MK1A get an additional dedicated hardpoint, or will the EW pod use one of the existing points?
If a dedicated point will be added, then it will require some amount of flight testing to qualify.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby gaurav.p » 08 Oct 2018 15:08

JEC Asia-2018 Innovation Award Under Aerospace-Structure Category For the work: "Innovative Skin-Ribs Cocured Engine Bay Door"

Image

Few excerpts from the news
    -> primary requirement was to design a lightweight structure with a continuous service temperature of 180⁰C. This requirement precludes the usage of carbon-epoxy composites, as their service temperature is limited to 120-130⁰C. This requirement was met by employing BMI (Bismaleimide) composites whose service temperature is about 200⁰C.
    -> development of cocured/integrated structure using carbon-BMI material has not been reported in open literature so far
    -> qualified engine bay doors are assembled on LCA-Tejas aircraft and flight trials are in progress. 250 hours of flights have been completed without any issue and the engine bay door is set to enter series production soon.
    -> Key Benefits = 28% weight reduction over carbon-epoxy door; Reduced manufacturing & assembly time; Maintenance-free structure (need for insulation to manage temperature is eliminated)

Link: https://www.nal.res.in/en/latestupdate?ar_id=126
PDF link: https://www.nal.res.in/medias/content_image/other/829/jec-asia-innovation-award-2018.pdf

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby nam » 08 Oct 2018 15:58

If there is a 28% reduction in weight over carbon - epoxy, they should start using BMI for other parts as well.

28% is huge. And it has better thermal capability.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Indranil » 08 Oct 2018 19:07

ks_sachin wrote:
Indranil wrote:I don’t think we should discuss tactics in public.

Ok. But do we need a mud mover in light of payload?

No. Tejas will take care of the roles of mig-27 and Jaguar. The IAF chief said that it is envisioned to take on the roles of MiG-29 and Mirage-2000 as well.

mody wrote:For MK1A, will there be a dedicated hardpoint for the EW pod? Currently the Tejas has 8 hardpoints. & for weapons and drop tanks and 1 dedicated point for the Litening pod. For the EW pod being developed, will the MK1A get an additional dedicated hardpoint, or will the EW pod use one of the existing points?
If a dedicated point will be added, then it will require some amount of flight testing to qualify.

The EW pod will be carried on a dual rack on the OB station. It will require flight testing. But risk is very low and confidence is high.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ashishvikas » 08 Oct 2018 19:10

Indranil wrote:
ks_sachin wrote:Ok. But do we need a mud mover in light of payload?

No. Tejas will take care of the roles of mig-27 and Jaguar. The IAF chief said that it is envisioned to take on the roles of MiG-29 and Mirage-2000 as well.

mody wrote:For MK1A, will there be a dedicated hardpoint for the EW pod? Currently the Tejas has 8 hardpoints. & for weapons and drop tanks and 1 dedicated point for the Litening pod. For the EW pod being developed, will the MK1A get an additional dedicated hardpoint, or will the EW pod use one of the existing points?
If a dedicated point will be added, then it will require some amount of flight testing to qualify.

The EW pod will be carried on a dual rack on the OB station. It will require flight testing. But risk is very low and confidence is high.


Very question IR, Do we need always need EW Pod and Litening pod together for all missions ?

I understand Litening pod is required for Air to Ground missions only.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby JTull » 08 Oct 2018 20:30

nam wrote:If there is a 28% reduction in weight over carbon - epoxy, they should start using BMI for other parts as well.

28% is huge. And it has better thermal capability.


New tech so there may be a cost issue due to lack of available scale. Carbon-epoxy tech is now with several private players.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ramana » 08 Oct 2018 21:38

ks_sachin wrote:Ok although my q was to drive something else. My bad should have phrased it diff.

You have not answered my question in the small arms thread though.

S



Sachin, What is this?
You could phrase your question still. You don't do that but throw in a grievance!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Indranil » 08 Oct 2018 23:47

ashishvikas wrote:Do we need always need EW Pod and Litening pod together for all missions ?

I understand Litening pod is required for Air to Ground missions only.

The Israelis and we use the pod in more ways than just illuminating targets.

Not all missions will require the Litening and EW pods together. But, some will.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Trikaal » 09 Oct 2018 00:13

Indranil wrote:The Israelis and we use the pod in more ways than just illuminating targets.

Not all missions will require the Litening and EW pods together. But, some will.

At present is buddy targeting possible? As in, in a strike group of 3 Tejas, just one carries lightening pod and marks targets for buddies too? Or is it planned for the future upgrade?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Indranil » 09 Oct 2018 00:42

I don't know.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby tsarkar » 09 Oct 2018 01:06

ashishvikas wrote:I understand Litening pod is required for Air to Ground missions only.

The IAF pioneered the use of Litening as an IRST in Su-30MKI and Tejas due to its far superior quality optics compared to Russian ones. So Litening is used in A2A modes as well.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby tsarkar » 09 Oct 2018 01:11

Trikaal wrote:At present is buddy targeting possible? As in, in a strike group of 3 Tejas, just one carries lightening pod and marks targets for buddies too? Or is it planned for the future upgrade?

The Mirage 2000 did that in 1999 at Kargil and Jaguar do do regularly, so yes, that capability well exists.

After an F-16 was hit by a Stinger fired by TTP, the Pakistanis use F-16 for long distance destination using Lockheed Sniper pods outside Stinger range and JF-17 as bomb mules to drop the actual bomb. The JF-17 has no guidance capability and is dependent on the F-16 for designation.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ks_sachin » 09 Oct 2018 02:50

ramana wrote:
ks_sachin wrote:Ok although my q was to drive something else. My bad should have phrased it diff.

You have not answered my question in the small arms thread though.

S



Sachin, What is this?
You could phrase your question still. You don't do that but throw in a grievance!

No greviance - at least I have not seen any?. And the Q was answered by IR.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby SaiK » 09 Oct 2018 04:34

^^buddy targeting is no use w/ stealth (ie JF-17 can't designate, it is lame duck!). /JMT

A combination of stealth airframe, plus buddy targeting and effective cloaking (a good long-ranged AESA with LPI+switch off/passive) with decoys would work.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Rakesh » 10 Oct 2018 00:14

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1047893857092792321 ---> The first flight of the HAL Tejas Mk-1A is expected to take place in either 2020 or 2021 according to the IAF Chief. BTW, at the moment the acquisition plan for Tejas is as follows: 40 MK-1 (ordered) + 83 Mk-1A (RFP stage) + 108 MK-2 (prospective) = 231 LCAs.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby nash » 10 Oct 2018 20:37

https://twitter.com/writetake/status/10 ... 7111248897

Anantha Krishnan M

‏ @writetake

#JustIn

#Tejas SP-11 had its first flight today. Piloted by Gp Capt Venugopal (Retd), the flight lasted for 34 minutes. Congratulations, Team HAL.


I think 5 more to get the First full sqd.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Kartik » 10 Oct 2018 21:27

SP-11 first flight today

Image

The 11th Series Produced Tejas (LA-5011) took to the sky on her maiden flight today. Couple more production sorties and equal number of customer sorties and thereafter she is ready to join the Flying Daggers.


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