Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby suryag » 27 Dec 2018 13:03

One thing that am curious is the CMD says 9 aircraft have been delivered but SP10 and SP11 have been in air for quite some time and according to Tejas FB generally the aircrafts are handed over to squadron after a couple of production sorties, wondering if they have been delivered or not, also not much of a mention of HTT-40(70 orders)

Meanwhile - checked news feeds HTT-40 has cleared the first two turn spin trial on 9-Nov-2018

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby JayS » 27 Dec 2018 17:48

suryag wrote:One thing that am curious is the CMD says 9 aircraft have been delivered but SP10 and SP11 have been in air for quite some time and according to Tejas FB generally the aircrafts are handed over to squadron after a couple of production sorties, wondering if they have been delivered or not, also not much of a mention of HTT-40(70 orders)

Meanwhile - checked news feeds HTT-40 has cleared the first two turn spin trial on 9-Nov-2018


Saar your news feed is running few month late. :P

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Gyan » 27 Dec 2018 23:06

srin wrote:^^^
Please re-read the Ajai Shukla blog on this. He mentioned that Elta won the deal and Elisra wasn't allowed to contest.


Perhaps EW suit of Elisra is different from jammer & radar being bought from Elta

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Gyan » 27 Dec 2018 23:11



All 40 LCA are expected to be delivered by 2022 ie Max production rate would be 8 per annum

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby John » 28 Dec 2018 00:36

Gyan wrote:


All 40 LCA are expected to be delivered by 2022 ie Max production rate would be 8 per annum

Its say plan is to ramp to 16/per yr by 2020.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby SaiK » 28 Dec 2018 03:35

When did we last heard of mayavi tested?

(Trying to understand what "interim" means.)

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Gyan » 28 Dec 2018 11:50

John wrote:
Gyan wrote:
All 40 LCA are expected to be delivered by 2022 ie Max production rate would be 8 per annum

Its say plan is to ramp to 16/per yr by 2020.


Interview makes lot of contradictory statements about 16 per annum. But overall reading indicates that proposal for Rs. 1300 crore investment to enhance production is still at consideration stage. So if cleared can lead to production line being sent up by 2020 which might mean that 16 aircraft will roll out in 2023. But for first 40 aircraft the max rate would be 8 per annum or lesser. So, 40 by 2022 and 16 MKIA per annum from 2023 is the plan.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby jaysimha » 28 Dec 2018 13:33

CSIR-NAL gets Rs. 100 crore plus order from HAL for manufacture of composite components for LCA-Tejas:

Composite technology is one of the critical technologies that make the LCA a 4th generation fighter aircraft. CSIR-NAL’s collaboration with LCA program started from technology demonstrator (2 aircrafts) to prototype development (5 aircrafts) to limited series production (8 aircrafts) and IOC standard production aircrafts (SP1 to SP20). The initial IOC order of 20 sets is nearing completion. This homegrown technology developed by CSIR-NAL was used in realizing primary air-frame components of LCA like Fin, Rudder, Wing Spars and Fairings, Centre Fuselage and Main Landing Gear components.

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease. ... lid=186566

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby nam » 29 Dec 2018 15:36

https://twitter.com/SpokespersonMoD/status/1078649065972236288

A meeting on the ongoing production of LCA involving Secy DRDO, Chairman HAL & Dy Chief of Air Staff was conducted today in the chairmanship of Chief of Air Staff (CAS). The likely time gap between the Initial and Final Operational Clearance versions of the LCA were discussed.


The CAS gave directions that will ensure timely production with no time gaps between the production of the two versions of LCA. With the LCA production demands placed by the IAF, HAL will be working to its full capacity in the LCA production lines


IOC will be delivered by March 19. First flight of SP FOC to be in Oct. There will be no deliveries for 6-7 months. The drawback of this requirement of restricting to 20 IOC & 20 FOC, when we desperately need numbers. We will face the same issue, if MK1A is delayed. HAL will also not invest in adding 17-24 production line, because there are not enough orders for such a line.

The tweet does not mention what the instructions were, however I hope it is HAL has been given the go ahead to continue IOC production until FOC. But then more jets should have been on the jig. Overall a bizzare picture, over something which would have been plain obvious.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Gyan » 30 Dec 2018 18:17

The only possible instruction to avoid time gap is to allow HAL to start manufacturing second batch aircraft without waiting for formal FOC

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Kartik » 31 Dec 2018 03:42

Are you not aware that HAL has already started putting together parts for SP-21 and SP-22? And that FOC is just around the corner?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby fanne » 31 Dec 2018 03:48

Lets wait for Jan 4th and hope Dileep is right. I don't think that MK1A is far behind, now that we have ordered 83 2052 radars with the EW Suite. MK1A is no different than LCA FOC except for few things ( a list of 4 main items - radar, EW, AA refueling and rearrangement of parts for better serviceability - All talked about in recent times and being worked/completed). No gap should be expected, except when we move to LCA MK2, it may not come that soon.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Haridas » 31 Dec 2018 11:24

Kartik wrote:Are you not aware that HAL has already started putting together parts for SP-21 and SP-22? And that FOC is just around the corner?

IMHO FOC on 4th Jan, FOC standard documentation, vendor bid, PO, lead time will result in gestation time of ~9 month. The ACM might have oked continued manufacturing of current version till FOC fills the production line. Keep ramping up the line throughput.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby mody » 31 Dec 2018 14:58

fanne wrote:Lets wait for Jan 4th and hope Dileep is right. I don't think that MK1A is far behind, now that we have ordered 83 2052 radars with the EW Suite. MK1A is no different than LCA FOC except for few things ( a list of 4 main items - radar, EW, AA refueling and rearrangement of parts for better serviceability - All talked about in recent times and being worked/completed). No gap should be expected, except when we move to LCA MK2, it may not come that soon.


Some corrections. The air to air refuelling is already part of FoC and not for MK1A.
The main differences in Mk1A are:
1). Aesa radar and EW pod.
2). Internal re-organization of LRU's for easier maintenance.
3). Weight reduction, possibly by redesigning the landing gear and also removable of some of the dead weight ballast's in the MK1.
4). Better WVR missile. Don't know if its going to be Python-V or ASRAM.
5). Better BVR missile to take full advantage of the Aesa radar. Mostly Derby-ER or/and Astra-MK2.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby JayS » 31 Dec 2018 18:28

mody wrote:
fanne wrote:Lets wait for Jan 4th and hope Dileep is right. I don't think that MK1A is far behind, now that we have ordered 83 2052 radars with the EW Suite. MK1A is no different than LCA FOC except for few things ( a list of 4 main items - radar, EW, AA refueling and rearrangement of parts for better serviceability - All talked about in recent times and being worked/completed). No gap should be expected, except when we move to LCA MK2, it may not come that soon.


Some corrections. The air to air refuelling is already part of FoC and not for MK1A.
The main differences in Mk1A are:
1). Aesa radar and EW pod.
2). Internal re-organization of LRU's for easier maintenance.
3). Weight reduction, possibly by redesigning the landing gear and also removable of some of the dead weight ballast's in the MK1.
4). Better WVR missile. Don't know if its going to be Python-V or ASRAM.
5). Better BVR missile to take full advantage of the Aesa radar. Mostly Derby-ER or/and Astra-MK2.


Actually, IAF asked for 4 specific inclusions over the then status that is IOC in 2015-16.

1. AESA
2. EW suite (external SPJ)
3. BVR
4. AAR

And the LRU optimizations was anyhow going to proceed. That's a usual design process. Out of above 4, last two are part of FOC. The other two are to be included in MK1A.

Weight reduction is consequential and not an independent target in itself. Python was dropped due to flatter issues and was as such not a GO/NOGO requirement for FOC or MK1A. We only saw some unconfirmed news items about ASRAAM which for all we know were lifafa articles.

AAR and Derby are both already demonstrated.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby srin » 31 Dec 2018 19:12

What about the gun ? IIRC, it got moved out of FOC, so is it part of Mk1A ?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby nam » 31 Dec 2018 20:07

Is this the Production Radar on LCA? That does not look like EL 2032?

Edit: The image is from 2016.. so it is the production radar.

Image

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby JayS » 31 Dec 2018 20:37

nam wrote:Is this the Production Radar on LCA? That does not look like EL 2032?

Edit: The image is from 2016.. so it is the production radar.


What makes it look not like 2032..? The disk..?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby nam » 31 Dec 2018 21:27

JayS wrote:
nam wrote:Is this the Production Radar on LCA? That does not look like EL 2032?

Edit: The image is from 2016.. so it is the production radar.


What makes it look not like 2032..? The disk..?


Yeah the antenna. Probably the rotating arm as well. I cannot say about the processing modules.

Here is what 2032 antenna looks like

Image

The one on LCA seems to be MMR antenna. There must have been major work done on integrating Derby, if it is not pure 2032.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Karan M » 31 Dec 2018 21:37

LCA radar is a hybrid one, Indian front-end and Israeli back-end.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Karan M » 31 Dec 2018 21:49

Credit to bolasani@Ai-13

Image

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Karan M » 31 Dec 2018 21:51

LRDE did the antenna while the high speed gimbal, a breakthrough was done by BARC and ECIL.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ramana » 01 Jan 2019 04:03


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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby SaiK » 01 Jan 2019 04:50

Lungi dance should be parfaarmance naarmal now.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Rakesh » 01 Jan 2019 05:04

A great day for the nation and a wonderful way to start off 2019. Kudos to the Tejas Team!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Vips » 01 Jan 2019 05:08

Defence Ministry nod for 111 military projects worth Rs 1.78 lakh crore under Make in India.


On the Light Combat Aircraft Tejas project, the Minister said that that out of the 16 Initial Operational Clearance planes, 10 have been delivered to the Air Force till now. "Till date, out of 16 IOC fighter aircraft, 10 fighters have been delivered by HAL and are operational with IAF's 45 Squadron. The delivery of remaining 6 IOC fighter aircraft is planned by March 2019," the minister added.

Bhamre said that the four trainer aircraft to be supplied to the 45 squadrons of Air Force would be taken up after design clearance from the Aeronautical Development Agency.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Kartik » 01 Jan 2019 06:05

So its confirmed! Great news! Congratulations to ADA, DRDO for all the effort that was put in and to the MoD for having followed up the program to this point. It will be a really big day for aviation in India when this milestone is achieved. :)

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby fanne » 01 Jan 2019 06:47

It is a big achievement, it is not just a check box. We are producing a battleworthy 4th gen fighter. Also from rumor, the 4 trainer will be in FOC config (against planned in IOC).

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby nam » 01 Jan 2019 07:37

Time to remember my first glimpse on LCA on brochure, the white colored with black loadout, when i attended the first Aero India in 96!

Twenty three years from that time, the aircraft from the brochure has reached it's place.

First Indian designed and built supersonic, 4 Gen aircraft with FBW, Composite and Indian radar, has now reached FOC.

The ghost of Marut is finally laid to rest. :)

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Shekhar Singh » 01 Jan 2019 10:31

Are we going to know some other good news along with declaration of Tejas FOC on 4th Jan?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby SriKumar » 01 Jan 2019 11:08

nam wrote:......
The ghost of Marut is finally laid to rest. :)
that will be after 147 are ordered/produced? As I understand IAF had 183 147 Maruts (could be wrong on the number). The order of 324 is a good start.
Last edited by SriKumar on 01 Jan 2019 12:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Will » 01 Jan 2019 11:15

Finally! Congrats to all those involved over the years and the perseverance. Hope this acts as the reboot as well as kickstart to the Indian Aerospace industry. Next stop AMCA and Ghatak.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Will » 01 Jan 2019 11:15

self deleted
Last edited by Will on 01 Jan 2019 11:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ashishvikas » 01 Jan 2019 11:17

As far as FOC for the Tejas Mk-1 is concerned, 90% of radar & EW functionality had been achieved according to people in the know. The full functionality software upgrade could even be done after induction.Gun vibration tests had shown that the mounting needed some stiffening.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/107 ... 36000?s=19

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby la.khan » 01 Jan 2019 13:24

ramana wrote:Looks like 4 Jan, is FOC.
https://twitter.com/zone5aviation/statu ... 42016?s=19

So, the tweet says:
LCA Tejas Mk.1 FOC Build Standard documents were officially released to @HALHQBLR by DG Aero, @DRDO_India, on 31 Dec 2018

My understanding of the above is that DG Aero @ DRDO has given HAL HQ @ BLR FOC build standard documents. So, any Tejas aircraft HAL builds to these docs/specifications is considered as FOC complaint?

What about IAF? Are they on board with this? Do they agree that these FOC Build Standard docs is as per their specifications/requirement? I thought the final nod whether Tejas has completed FOC or not rests with IAF.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby nam » 01 Jan 2019 15:43

la.khan wrote:My understanding of the above is that DG Aero @ DRDO has given HAL HQ @ BLR FOC build standard documents. So, any Tejas aircraft HAL builds to these docs/specifications is considered as FOC complaint?

What about IAF? Are they on board with this? Do they agree that these FOC Build Standard docs is as per their specifications/requirement? I thought the final nod whether Tejas has completed FOC or not rests with IAF.


Here is my understanding. IAF would have specified capabilities (ex IFR, weapon mode etc) and flight profile for FOC. ADA then implements the hardware and certificates the new functions with CLAW, proofing that no new hardware/layout/lru/CoG needs changing to meet FOC, which would effect CLAW/ flight parameters. IAF Program office would have signed off the certification.

ADA has now frozen the hardware. This allows HAL to build the hardware. Any future changes are purely software, not effecting hardware/layout.

Given the need for IFR in FOC, it is fundamentally a new version. Pak call the JF with IFR Block 2. We are calling it FOC!

Once it goes in to sqd service, they might find issues. It will go in to bug fixing mode.

Something similar to Rafale F3R. It is not flying in India. Yet we will receive the Production version. If there are issues, we will let Dassualt know.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby nam » 01 Jan 2019 15:51

My understanding is that technically FOC should have been the all issues fixed version of IOC that is currently in IAF service. Given that it is already operational, we would say we have done FOC of the IOC version.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby JayS » 01 Jan 2019 16:55

nam wrote:
la.khan wrote:My understanding of the above is that DG Aero @ DRDO has given HAL HQ @ BLR FOC build standard documents. So, any Tejas aircraft HAL builds to these docs/specifications is considered as FOC complaint?

What about IAF? Are they on board with this? Do they agree that these FOC Build Standard docs is as per their specifications/requirement? I thought the final nod whether Tejas has completed FOC or not rests with IAF.


Here is my understanding. IAF would have specified capabilities (ex IFR, weapon mode etc) and flight profile for FOC. ADA then implements the hardware and certificates the new functions with CLAW, proofing that no new hardware/layout/lru/CoG needs changing to meet FOC, which would effect CLAW/ flight parameters. IAF Program office would have signed off the certification.

ADA has now frozen the hardware. This allows HAL to build the hardware. Any future changes are purely software, not effecting hardware/layout.

Given the need for IFR in FOC, it is fundamentally a new version. Pak call the JF with IFR Block 2. We are calling it FOC!

Once it goes in to sqd service, they might find issues. It will go in to bug fixing mode.

Something similar to Rafale F3R. It is not flying in India. Yet we will receive the Production version. If there are issues, we will let Dassualt know.


Addition of IFR doesn't make necessarily it a new version. Typically much more would be included for a new iteration, since its quite an expensive and time consuming task for configuration management to have different versions. Not worth doing it only for IFR these days. Also if you still add only IFR to an aircraft, it would have its own IOC and FOC in case the aircraft is planned to be flown in service before full certification of IFR. For example, SAAB produced and gave IFR version of Gripen and they were flying in Service before the IFR was even flight tested for actual refueling even once. In this situation there would be an IOC for IFR, which means its would be safe to fly with IFR probe but it cannot be used for actual refueling. Only when they certified IFR completely (I think 1-2 yrs later), the AF pilots were allowed to use IFR. This is FOC.

Similarly a new blk for F16 for example, F16 blk70/72 would have its own IOC and FOC. But it would depend upon actual situation how the certification agency handles the issue. For example, if the OEM is able to fully certify prior to induction, there is no need of IOC.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby JayS » 01 Jan 2019 17:00

la.khan wrote:
ramana wrote:Looks like 4 Jan, is FOC.
https://twitter.com/zone5aviation/statu ... 42016?s=19

So, the tweet says:
LCA Tejas Mk.1 FOC Build Standard documents were officially released to @HALHQBLR by DG Aero, @DRDO_India, on 31 Dec 2018

My understanding of the above is that DG Aero @ DRDO has given HAL HQ @ BLR FOC build standard documents. So, any Tejas aircraft HAL builds to these docs/specifications is considered as FOC complaint?

What about IAF? Are they on board with this? Do they agree that these FOC Build Standard docs is as per their specifications/requirement? I thought the final nod whether Tejas has completed FOC or not rests with IAF.

Bolded part, sounds right.

Don't worry about IAF being onboard. The LCA steering committee (sort of BoG for the program) meeting had all the stakeholders in it and often ACM chairs the meet which is a quarterly affair I think. IAF doesn't give FOC, its CEMILAC which does that.


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