JayS wrote:IMO, your argument about long sorties is tangential to the topic I feel
No sir, your feeling is not correct or substantiated by facts.
JayS wrote:I feel, as overwhelming majority of the bird strikes happen during TO and Landing
If you refer to accidents happened in 2018 posted by me earlier, Mirage 2000 happened at Pokhran while bombing and not while takeoff or landinghttp://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Datab ... qyear=2017
A Su-30MKI also suffered a canopy burst during mission and not during takeoff or landing. Same for the MiG-29. While last two cases were not related to bird hits, they do make a case for strengthening of canopies.
JayS wrote:or at very low altitude. Bird hits above few thousand feet altitude are rare.
I had posted this link two pages back on high altitude bird strikes https://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/b ... 476-1.html
A huge four-engine IAF IL-76 transport was flying at more than 22,000 feet when it struck a yet-unidentified bird.
Saar I never said, high alti bird strikes never happen. Only thing is they are rare compared to overall bird strikes. I have posted a link in reply to Zynda's post few posts back from which I quoted numbers in my prior post. Yes they are not for Indian conditions, but its reasonable to assume we will not see significant deviation in the % numbers.
Point related to SAR, I can agree to. Its valid point.
Re, canopy burst, It could have been a quality issue. IMO it doesn't necessarily should be a motivation for increasing design requirement unless the burst was known to have caused due to something hitting on the canopy. Just saying. The enquiry commission must have explored possible causes and relevant feedback given to the OEM.
Anyways let me just ask you a point blank question, I wanted to previously, I didn't, but since you mentioned you have talked to real people now - whatever rationale you provided is the rationale IAF actually had or this is your hypothesis on the possible rational based on the information at hand. If the answer is former, then we have nothing more to discuss, as you would be simply stating facts and no one can argue against that. Just to be clear whatever I have been talking is all speculation based on my knowledge.
PS: Found this article. It doesn't have date on it but from the content it looks like it must be around 2009.http://www.sps-aviation.com/interviews/ ... Safety-IAF
As far as anti-bird measures are concerned we have established an ornithology cell with a purpose to carry out bird survey and suggest bird prevention modules specific to airfields. Further, to ensure that flying environment is safe from birds, IAF is procuring avian radar to monitor real time data on bird movement at flying bases. (the tender for 45 Aviary radars only came out in 2015, dunno if IAF has got them now or not)
We have also instituted environment management of airfield area (EMAA) which aims at outlining the steps for bird and wildlife management, vegetation control and provide generalised solutions for various airfields in different geographical grids of the country. This has been introduced to further improve the accident rate and bring it at par with other leading air forces of the world and the Government of India has already approved this step because it also involves participation by state governments.
SP’s: Bird hits have been another factor which contributed considerably to the IAF’s accident rates in the past. Could you explain as to what measures have been taken by the IAF to reduce this menace? What are the latest trends in this regard?
DG: To reduce bird hit cases, a dedicated ornithology cell has been established at the Directorate of Aerospace Safety. The cell has completed bird survey at 28 flying bases of the IAF & station specific anti-bird modules have been implemented. As part of anti-bird measure, environmental cleaning within the airbases is being undertaken on a war footing to deny a habitat for birds and animals so as to prevent their collision with the aircraft. Also, a project called solid waste management, which is aimed at systematic management of garbage from the township in the vicinity of our airfields so as to deny habitat for resting and roosting of birds has been started at 10 selected IAF bases with financial assistance from the Central Government. Subsequently, this scheme would be extended to all other airfields. Further, IAF is in the process of building of a DNA bar code library. This helps to identify the type of bird from the remnants on the ac and institute anti-bird measures specific to that particular bird and place. Also, application of Rule 91 of Aircraft Rules 1937 is resorted to enforce discipline about anti-bird measures in the civil locality surrounding our airfields. It is a powerful tool which legally permits invoking of penalties on violators. Some new initiatives like procurement/hiring of heavy duty earth moving/vegetation clearance equipment for effective management of airfield environment, procurement of avian radar (which helps in locating, tracking and monitoring movement of birds), procurement of microlites for carrying out survey of bird activities, monitoring of high rise structures, garbage and carcass disposal sites, etc have been taken up. Also, formalisation of a concept called environment management of airfield area (EMAA) which aims at outlining the steps for bird and wild life management, vegetation control and provide generalised solutions for various airfields in different geographical grids of the country is under way.
IAF is onto Bird hit related hazard reduction for a while now. From the measures listed above they must have got good data. Could the updated canopy design requirement a follow on result of this...?
This link has some good info on Aviary radar for airports. They help give heads up to pilots for near airport bird strikes and have range of 10-12km. Was heartening to see and Indian company was bidding for the tender.https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... ike-radars
From above link:
The Indian Air Force, which conducts many operational and training flights and often at very low level, attributes around 10 percent of accidents to bird hits.
Note than these are accidents and not necessarily lost aircrafts.