Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Prem Kumar » 09 Apr 2018 23:34

Tsarkar: can you summarize what the RM said? The Facebook video audio quality is very poor.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby tsarkar » 11 Apr 2018 01:40

Prem:

Most of the interview was around media freedom, V K Singh visiting RSS event, etc,

The interviewer said AFSPA exploits women that Defence Minister strongly clarified that AFSPA is GoI's position and not Army's position or MoD's position.

She also clarified Army Vice Chief's statement to Parliament about equipment being obsolete stating that by the time SQRs are drafted and summer and winter trials carried out, the equipment under consideration no longer remains state of the art. Add to that procedures for preventing corruption and that causes delays.

She said Defence Acquisition Committee under her has no pending acquisition cases and she has cleared them all, unlike the previous Congress regime.

She also mentioned the challenges of civilian and military bureaucracy at MoD with bloated egos - did a small mimic too.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ashishvikas » 11 Apr 2018 20:55

#GaganShakti2018 #LCAOps Indigenous fighter LCA(Tejas) carried out Air Defence & Live Strike missions from a forward base. Multirole Capabilities of #LCA will go a long way in incorporating this platform in the Ops Matrix of the #IAF.

https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/9840 ... 82432?s=19

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby shaun » 11 Apr 2018 21:29

ashishvikas wrote:#GaganShakti2018 #LCAOps Indigenous fighter LCA(Tejas) carried out Air Defence & Live Strike missions from a forward base. Multirole Capabilities of #LCA will go a long way in incorporating this platform in the Ops Matrix of the #IAF.

https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/9840 ... 82432?s=19


Major IAF level exercise Gagan Shakti has started from 11 Apr 18. This year over 1100 aircraft have been deployed at their operational locations. This exercise is also unique as LCA, our indigenous fighters are being deployed at forward bases. During the first phase of the exercise, today all the deployed LCA aircraft had participated. The operational efficiency and mission worthiness of these platforms would be put to test in a real time intense exercise environment. A milestone towards ‘Make in India’, LCA will employ Close Combat and Beyond Visual Range Air to Air missiles in a simulated scenario apart from Air to Ground weapons.
The IAF has consistently encouraged the development of indigenous defence production capability and capacities. A look at the past demonstrates the IAF’s participation and promotion of indigenization programs. It is proud moment for our test pilots as they have been involved in its development since 1990’s.
This versatile multirole fighter would be put through its operational paces towards validating concepts. Ex-Gaganshakti will test the LCA across a varied spectrum encompassing Air Defence and Strike capabilities amongst others. The employment of LCA in the exercise will go a long way in incorporating its capabilities in the operational matrix of the IAF.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Prem Kumar » 11 Apr 2018 22:25

Thanks tsarkar!

I thought you mentioned that she also had some positive things to say about Arjun and Tejas induction?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ArjunPandit » 12 Apr 2018 02:59

How i wish Abhibhushan sir has a second trip to his old cave after the the GaganShakti.
Also, is Gagan Shakti an broadened version of LiveWire? Livewire used to involve two front and activation of all major assets. However, the scale was certainly less and did not involve maritime roles or such close coordination with Navy and IA

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby jaysimha » 12 Apr 2018 10:16

Image
Exercise Gaganshakti-2018: LCA Operations

Major IAF level exercise Gagan Shakti has started from 11 Apr 18. This year over 1100 aircraft have been deployed at their operational locations. This exercise is also unique as LCA our indigenous fighters are being deployed at forward bases. During the first phase of the exercise, today all the deployed LCA aircraft had participated. The operational efficiency and mission worthiness of these platforms would be put to test in a real time intense exercise environment. A milestone towards ‘Make in India’, LCA will employ Close Combat and Beyond Visual Range Air to Air missiles in a simulated scenario apart from Air to Ground weapons.



The IAF has consistently encouraged the development of indigenous defence production capability and capacities. A look at the past demonstrates the IAF’s participation and promotion of indigenisation programs. It is proud moment for our test pilots as they have been involved in its development since 1990’s.



This versatile multirole fighter would be put through its operational paces towards validating concepts. Ex-Gaganshakti will test the LCA across a varied spectrum encompassing Air Defence and Strike capabilities amongst others. The employment of LCA in the exercise will go a long way in incorporating its capabilities in the operational matrix of the IAF.







********

AB/MKR




(Release ID :178611)

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby KBDagha » 12 Apr 2018 17:21

This is excellent. All 8 Indian Air Force LCA Tejas jets forward deployed (some at Phalodi air base in Rajasthan) for Exercise Gagan Shakti. Here's HAL chairman Suvarna Raju saying they're flying three sorties a day each. #DefExpo18 Source: Livefist

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby nam » 12 Apr 2018 20:54

Something to note. As part of Gagan Shakti PR, IAF has released information about LCA first & foremost.

It is been treated as a new capability, a sense of pride can be seen in the IAF comm. If IAF wanted they could just kept quite.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ashishvikas » 14 Apr 2018 13:31

DRDO Uttam AESA on display at #DefExpo18. I was told it’s been integrated with an LSP, energized and tested on ground. Planned first flight in a month or so. Will roughly match existing Elta 2032 performance initially.

https://twitter.com/zone5aviation/statu ... 04064?s=19

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby nash » 14 Apr 2018 14:10

ashishvikas wrote:DRDO Uttam AESA on display at #DefExpo18. I was told it’s been integrated with an LSP, energized and tested on ground. Planned first flight in a month or so. Will roughly match existing Elta 2032 performance initially.

https://twitter.com/zone5aviation/statu ... 04064?s=19



Great news, if it comes true then i don't have words to describe what kind of moment it will be.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby shiv » 14 Apr 2018 16:12

jaysimha wrote:Exercise Gaganshakti-2018: LCA Operations

http://164.100.117.97/WriteReadData/use ... 010MSL.jpg
I hadn't noticed that little auxiliary port on the side of the air intake...wher'e Indranil for an instant answer on this? :evil:

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Zynda » 14 Apr 2018 17:46

Not IR...but that port has been there quite a while. IIRC, it is a spring loaded port which opens only during times when excessive air is needed by the engine...like take-off etc. I think the aux. port was added when F404-INS6 was installed as it was determined that engine needed more air flow rate.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby yensoy » 14 Apr 2018 18:56

What Tejas needs, once we have about 40-50, is an aerobatics team.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_air_display_teams

This seems to be a rite of passage for any country with its own manufacturing base, trying to show off their technology. In most cases, the aerobatics team is built around the homegrown aircraft even when more capable imports are available with that country's air force.

HAL & IAF obviously know about it which is why we have Saarang for the ALH. I am awaiting the day when we have a similar team for the Tejas. That day will be an epoch in the maturity of the platform.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby fanne » 14 Apr 2018 19:51

Shiv Sir, have been there for a long time and has been on active BR discussion. Spring loaded, opens up mainly during takeoff (and maybe when afterburners are used). This was when higher efficiency engine was used (F404-INS6). It needed more air, among the choices were to change the intake (longer time increasing risk) or go for spring loaded (actually the solution was HAL proposed, not ADA, a practical solutiom to a theoretical problem).

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Bala Vignesh » 14 Apr 2018 20:53

yensoy wrote:What Tejas needs, once we have about 40-50, is an aerobatics team.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_air_display_teams

This seems to be a rite of passage for any country with its own manufacturing base, trying to show off their technology. In most cases, the aerobatics team is built around the homegrown aircraft even when more capable imports are available with that country's air force.

HAL & IAF obviously know about it which is why we have Saarang for the ALH. I am awaiting the day when we have a similar team for the Tejas. That day will be an epoch in the maturity of the platform.


SKAT is already ideally named for taking on Tejas as its steed!!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Kartik » 16 Apr 2018 03:42

Posted on Keypubs forum

Image

Image

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby JayS » 16 Apr 2018 11:20

ramana Sir, I cleaned up the thread. So let continue with relevant discussions. We have a special thread dedicated to DDM I suppose. That would be good place to collect and debunk junk/propaganda articles.

Anyways.

I am mighty impressed by IAF's show in Gaganshakti and really really happy that IAF has specially highlighted LCA. Tejas will not only add capability to IAF, but will also be turning their psych towards desi stuff for good.

Also happy to see updated brochure for Tejas. Hope they update numbers such as advertised range, combat radius and weapons load. Updated brochure numbers will kill atleast half the propaganda, or weaken it at the least.

And another heartening news on Uttam integration. I was rather disappointed when someone else reported that Uttam is still waiting for LCA airframe. But this new update has elated my jingo heart. I dearly hope that LRDE can come true to their words that Uttam can be qualified in an year once its starts flying.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Indranil » 17 Apr 2018 08:11

Those images are interesting. Because, I think we discusssed recent papers here which surmised that least drag config was dual pylons on both OB stations: one pylon with two missiles and the other with an SPJ and a missile.

Hakeem, those doors have always been there. It is present on almost all fighters. Am typing from a mobile device. Will type details later. Anyhow, they will be discontinued from Mk2, which will sport the letterboxes like on the Naval prototypes

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Shankk » 17 Apr 2018 17:46

Gaganshakti 2018: IAF displays might, air chief says ‘we’re shaking the heavens’

The exercise has had no glitches so far except a Jaguar fighter veering off the runway at the Bhuj airbase due to bad weather and a few Tejas light combat aircraft developing snags. “Hindustan Aeronautics Limited was able to fix the Tejas problems in less than 12 hours,” Dhanoa said.


Any idea on the nature of problems Tejas faced? This will be a real good input for HAL assembly line and maybe designers as well, depending on nature of problem, to look out for going forward. Given that this exercise was something that gets as close to real war as possible this is really impressive.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby SSridhar » 17 Apr 2018 19:47

This is the first time that the Tejas is taking part in a serious war game. It has to be tempered in fire and that is what is happening. Impressive indeed.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby shiv » 17 Apr 2018 20:07

Shankk wrote:
Any idea on the nature of problems Tejas faced? This will be a real good input for HAL assembly line and maybe designers as well, depending on nature of problem, to look out for going forward. Given that this exercise was something that gets as close to real war as possible this is really impressive.

I would suggest that we do not keep on digging too deep into this.
Note that in this exercise the fleet had 80% availability. That means 20% were unavailable. 8 LCA is not 20% even if all failed. Other aircraft also had issues. By concentrating on LCA we are simply scoring own goals by helping search engine bots pick up news of LCA failure. Even those idiotic news items and media are to blame.

Let the IAF and HAL sort it out - or else let us talk about everything that failed in all aircraft. If every one of us used BRF for information perhaps the least we could do is but a copy of a book by one of BR's founders PVS Jagan Mohan (our Jagan) about the 1965 air war. That gives us an idea of the types of failures that can occur. They can vary from failure of a back up radio com set to a light bulb on the airframe or a small non critical oil leak or something more critical

Let us please stop digging "How did Tejas fail? How did Tejas fail? How did Tejas fail?"

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ramana » 17 Apr 2018 20:35

shiv, While I appreciate your coming to defend the Tejas, its germane in this thread to explore whats the issues were. We had to wait many years and many books to understand the basic issues with the Gnat (gun jamming, jet starters etc), Mig 21 awful AAMs, two legged cheetah. etc.

And Shankk is not a born yesterday member.
Shutting off discussion is not good for an open forum. We can guide it definitely.

Shankk, I think they are mfg issues as HAL technicians were able to fix them in limited time.
Can't be design flaws as the Tejas was tested extensively by the test pilots and the squadron.
Most likely hydraulic fittings becoming loose with vibrations.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby shiv » 17 Apr 2018 20:43

ramana every aircraft has issues. By concentrating on the Tejas's issues all that we are doing is attracting more negative publicity towards and aircraft that has had enough of that.

I suggest we wait till the leaks start coming out. At least that will be information that we can grab and ask the usual culprits.

Did you follow what I implied in my post? At 80% serviceability all aircraft must have had some issues. Nevertheless the news media have only reported issues with the Tejas including one that said in bold fonts visible at once something like

5000 sorties
Targets 2000 km away hit
Tejas had problems


No why would a new outlet specifically point that out as a headline? It is unlikely to be because Tejas was the ONLY aircraft to have problems.

PS: Please do not bring in date of birth issues. If we do then perhaps both of us must fade away.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby shiv » 17 Apr 2018 20:57

https://twitter.com/rahulsinghx/status/ ... 7581631488
Rahul Singh
‏ @rahulsinghx
11h11 hours ago

6 takeaways from IAF chief's interview with @htTweets #GaganShakti2018

1. Pak rattled
2. War assets moved from west to east in 48 hrs
3. LCA Tejas fleet hit by snags
4. Training activity shelved
5. 1,100 planes, 5k sorties, 72 hrs
6. Hawks bomb targets
https://m.hindustantimes.com/india-news ... ssion=true

Image

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Singha » 17 Apr 2018 21:05

phase2 of GS will be maritime upto malacca straits

indian Air Force
@IAF_MCC
3h3 hours ago
More
#GaganShakti2018 : IAF is effectively exercising its Maritime war fighting concepts on both Western & Eastern seaboards. Focus in Phase–II is to address targets over Eastern Sea Board right upto Malacca Straits.
More On: https://bit.ly/2qCrNup

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Singha » 17 Apr 2018 21:07

night ops by tejas
watch with full sound

https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/984451477182734343

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Shameek » 17 Apr 2018 22:20

Wonderful to see Tejas being put through its paces. I just wish the headline about the 'snags' also said that they were fixed within 12 hours. The manner of reporting makes all the difference in the final perception.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Uttam » 17 Apr 2018 23:04

Singha wrote:night ops by tejas
watch with full sound

https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/984451477182734343


From the video:

Tejas Stationary at 0.32 sec
Tejas in the air at 0.55 sec

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Shankk » 17 Apr 2018 23:05

Thanks Ramana for support.

Shiv, when I first read that report, there were many questions came to mind. First of all that report clearly said "few aircrafts" so overall it is good. Now regarding the ones that had issues, whether they were the initial ones manufactured and assembled mostly by HAL, or the later ones where there was larger private participation. Whether there was one from second line or not. So many things to know.

I agree however though there is no need to go into minute details about this. I just asked since it was already out in the public domain. Anyways, with MK1A having greater modularization, support time will reduce even further.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby nam » 18 Apr 2018 01:18

LCA is not at it's home base, neither it is one of the common aircraft type. So when it goes in forward base, either IAF needs to arrange for all parts, which has higher probability of failure or put in logistics plan, where HAL can arrange parts or technician, that can be on called on demand.

LCA cannot just land on some base and expect to commence ops, without the required support.

The fact that HAL has been able to get it back within 11 hours, during a massive exercise tells you there is good planning in place for what is fundamentally a new aircraft type.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Karan M » 18 Apr 2018 03:54

So the brochure shows SPICE on Tejas LCA.
Hopefully we will next see NGARM and SAAW as well. IAF seems to have a belief that 2BVR and 2CCM is enough for the AI mission, Tejas loadout + the recent RFI both show the same pattern.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby fanne » 18 Apr 2018 06:11

Tejas took longer to takeoff (too many minutes on the runway, could also be optical illusion in the last few seconds), compared to in Bahrain, where it was airborne is some 8-11 seconds. Is it because it was heavily loaded for mission? Does the takeoff/landing change by double because of factors like load?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby pravula » 18 Apr 2018 06:39

fanne wrote:Tejas took longer to takeoff (too many minutes on the runway, could also be optical illusion in the last few seconds), compared to in Bahrain, where it was airborne is some 8-11 seconds. Is it because it was heavily loaded for mission? Does the takeoff/landing change by double because of factors like load?


Yes, load, wind, temp, altitude, AB use etc...

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby shiv » 18 Apr 2018 07:37

fanne wrote:Tejas took longer to takeoff (too many minutes on the runway, could also be optical illusion in the last few seconds), compared to in Bahrain, where it was airborne is some 8-11 seconds. Is it because it was heavily loaded for mission? Does the takeoff/landing change by double because of factors like load?

Good observation. I had timed this takeoff to be >20 sec.

But there are two things here
1. Fully loaded will always take longer than lightly loaded/half fuel (as for an aerobatics demo)
2. As the plane fades into the distance it is not possible to say if the wheel left the ground but the pilot stayed low deliberately. This is often done. I suspect it allows build up of speed while saving fuel as the wheels are retracted or ground friction is absent. A higher power setting is needed to do a "showoff" climb, burning more fuel.

If the air temperature was high then the take off distance would be higher.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Atmavik » 18 Apr 2018 07:47

Singha wrote:night ops by tejas
watch with full sound

https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/984451477182734343


Jai Hind. Jai Hind ki "Vayu Sena".

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby tsarkar » 18 Apr 2018 08:34

Naliya AFS in Gujarat in summer + payload results in a longer takeoff run

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Kartik » 19 Apr 2018 02:20



Check this video of the Rafale taking off with 2 Scalp ALCMs, 2 wing drop tanks and 1 centerline drop tank and what appears to be wingtip mounted MICAs.

The take off roll starts at 1:16, afterburner is turned on at 1:22 and the nose rotation does not happen till 1:38. It does not get off the tarmac till ~1:40. This is what happens to loaded jets, carrying a full fuel complement and heavy stores.

So 22 seconds from start of the take off roll till nose rotation and 24 seconds till the Rafale lifts off the tarmac.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby Singha » 19 Apr 2018 03:28

Those of who have amazon prime there is a 53min movie called Rafale. Gives a great look into its design and manufacture and look into the st dizier main base where 50 jets are based

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Postby ArjunPandit » 19 Apr 2018 05:41

^Tejas thread guys


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