MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Kartik » 01 Dec 2018 05:09

From AW&ST

F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet Block III to get an internal IRST instead of current solution which is mounted on the belly drop tank


Next Phase Of IRST Upgrade For F/A-18E/F Begins
Aerospace Daily & Defense Report Nov 26, 2018 , p. 2
Steve Trimble

Lockheed Martin has begun the second phase of a project to integrate an infrared search and track (IRST) sensor internally on the U.S. Navy’s BoeingF/A-18E/F fleet.

Boeing awarded a $108 million contract to Lockheed to complete the development, testing and qualification of the IRST 21 Block II sensor.

The award comes a year after Lockheed received two contracts from Boeing worth up to $100 million to launch Phase 1 of the IRST 21 upgrade for the F/A-18E/F.

The Navy also awarded Boeing a $152 million contract in August to start working on the second phase of the IRST 21 Block II development program.

The second-generation IRST 21 is one of several upgrades that form the configuration for the Block III version of the F/A-18/E/F.

“The IRST 21 sensor system provides U.S. Navy F/A-18E/F operators with superior detection and survivability capabilities,” said Michael Williamson, vice president of Sensors and Global Sustainment for Lockheed’s Missiles and Fire Control business.

The two-seat Boeing-made fighter is expected to operate alongside the Lockheed Martin F-35C until 2040, when it will be replaced by the planned Next Generation Air Dominance fighter.

To keep the F/A-18E/F relevant over the next two decades, the Navy is adding several features to improve its performance in long-range air-to-air combat.

In addition to the IRST 21 Block II, the F/A-18E/F Block III will also carry a new advanced cockpit display to improve situational awareness and a Tactical Targeting Network Technology (TTNT) data link to enable sensor fusion among multiple aircraft. An IRST sensor can detect targets at long range by their heat signature, rather than risk exposing their position by using a radar.


The Navy launched the original IRST 21 upgrade for the F/A-18E/F fleet in 2011, but it entered operational service on the Block II version of the aircraft in the nose of a belly-mounted fuel tank.

The F/A-18E/F Block III is redesigning the aircraft to incorporate the IRST 21 Block II internally.


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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby brar_w » 01 Dec 2018 05:29

The drop tank IRST sensor was always meant as an upgrade to the existing fleet with fewer pods acquired than the number of aircraft in the fleet allowing the sensors to be rotated. With now a larger block-III order, and likely a revival of the EA-18G upgraded to Block III there is now a decent number out there to deploy the sensor internally.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Karan M » 07 Dec 2018 18:28

And... Khan already knows about the GaN SAAB will likely put in the Indian fighter.
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... -gan-radar

Meanwhile, Saab has been contracted by the U.S. government to supply an X-band AESA fighter radar for evaluation as part of the Foreign Comparative Test (FCT) program. The radar incorporates GaN (gallium nitride) semiconductor technology in its transmit/receive modules. Compared with the GaAs (gallium arsenide) semiconductor used in most current “e-scan” radar arrays, GaN permits more power to be transmitted through the array while generating less heat.

Saab’s GaN fighter radar draws on experience with the mechanically scanned PS-05/A radar that is in service in the Gripen C/D and has been offered as a potential system to India for the HAL Tejas Mk 1A fighter. The next-generation Gripen E/F features Leonardo’s ES-05 Raven repositionable-array radar that uses GaAs technology.

:roll:

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby brar_w » 07 Dec 2018 19:44

^ That antenna that SAAB is supplying the US Navy is meant to gather data using airborne testing for a future surface radar program (not a fighter radar) for which they sought an off the shelf airworthy X-band GaN antenna with an architecture that could be mated to their desired capability for rapid testing so I am not sure that SAAB will have USN funded flight tests of its full up radar saving them the effort and investment of doing it themselves (which they have so far resisted).

There is a Mid-2020s requirement for an AN/SPQ-9B replacement which this S&T program is likely supporting. Beyond this there has not even been an RFI issued for any other X-band radar from the USN for any other (surface or airborne) application. The only other application that I can forsee the USN requiring is a new sensor competition to replace the GaA (X-band) AAS on the P-8's but for that mission both Raytheon and Northrop already have a flying X-band (Northrop dual band X/Ku) GaN radars so it doesn't look likely that they need data to support that program.

Jane's IDR wrote:While Saab is supplying an airworthy system for the purposes of the X-band Active Aperture Array system FCT, the J&A suggested that the ONR’s interest is primarily in a future surface radar programme.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Karan M » 07 Dec 2018 20:20

All I am saying is that unless we field Uttam en masse or a derivative, any "special" technology we possess will invariably be in the hands of some other country with the corresponding issues.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Prasad » 07 Dec 2018 20:57

Well Leonardo is a finmeccanica subsidiary... I would dearly love to know how that would fly (pun!) here.

and GaN roadmap of theirs is pretty well known. The Raven GaN replacement is still a ways out.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby brar_w » 07 Dec 2018 21:16

The ES-05 Raven is the radar that is on the Gripen-E. SAAB's GaN radar demonstrator is something they have developed with their own radar division and is not a Leonardo product meant as a Raven upgrade. I don't think Leo has revealed a GaN roadmap for the ES-05 family. I assume their first and foremost priority would be to get the radar into service and being able to produce at a high enough rate to enjoy EOS.

So far neither of SAAB's customers has shown a willingness to flight test SAABs radar or look to replace the ES-05 on the Gripen-E even before the aircraft enters service. SAAB's strategy is to offer their radar for international fighter programs. They started their campaign in South Korea and have offered the radar to India as well iirc.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Prasad » 07 Dec 2018 22:46

Oh i meant the roadmap for their GaN development, not the Raven radar or is possible replacement.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 06 Jan 2019 02:02

Why Rahul Gandhi’s Parliament Gaffe Is An Ironic Self-Goal On India’s Jet Crisis
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2019/01 ... risis.html

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Philip » 06 Jan 2019 12:50

With the Rafale battle still going on, any " contest" for aircraft for the IAF will come a cropper. Only G-to-G deals will sail through.The IAF thetefore should have a definite plan B to augment numbers, while intense LCA prod. increase efforts are going on just for MIG replacements.
Plus, as time goes by, and the Chins unveil and introduce newer more capable birds, the demand is going to bd fof more modern aircraft rather that ' 70s vintage birds in their last avatar.Plan B alternatives must be prepared asap by the IAF so that a quick decision can be taken by the Cabinet before the ' 19 hustings.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 11 Jan 2019 06:32

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7625&p=2313948#p2313948

Click on link above and enjoy :)

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby nash » 22 Jan 2019 19:56

So this thing has begun again.

Lockheed sees potential exports of 200 F-16 jets from proposed Indian plant
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 627872.cms

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby ArjunPandit » 22 Jan 2019 19:58

^^honestly it is like Ekta kapoor serial, some characters dont die once and for all. They have their returns

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby ramana » 22 Jan 2019 22:01

They are dangling an old carrot.
Many folks who hate Modi are thinking its a juicy one.
All buzz words are included: #MakeinIndia, jobs, exports, cutting edge etc...
and just before elections.
There is some buzz about number of jobs in last 4 years

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Philip » 23 Jan 2019 00:30

Media reports today say that retirement hopes of the worn out MIG fleet have been dashed by the Rafale controversies and a decision on a new fighter may be taken only after the 2019 elections.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 23 Jan 2019 01:50

Philip wrote:Media reports today say that retirement hopes of the worn out MIG fleet have been dashed by the Rafale controversies and a decision on a new fighter may be taken only after the 2019 elections.

That is a nonsense media report. 2019 elections are in three months.

Who buys 110 MMRCA fighters in three months? We are in RFI stage. Just saying.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 23 Jan 2019 01:52

nash wrote:So this thing has begun again.

Lockheed sees potential exports of 200 F-16 jets from proposed Indian plant
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 627872.cms


"We see current demand outside of India of more than 200 aircraft. The value of those initial acquisition programs would likely exceed $20 billion," Lall said.

Do they see demand of the F-16 in India? :mrgreen:

There is a kind of a renaissance of the F-16."

:lol: Business Development and Marketing are departments, in where Management actually encourages you to bullsh!t your way through work!

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 23 Jan 2019 01:54

ramana wrote:They are dangling an old carrot.
Many folks who hate Modi are thinking its a juicy one.
All buzz words are included: #MakeinIndia, jobs, exports, cutting edge etc...
and just before elections.
There is some buzz about number of jobs in last 4 years

During the SEF contest, we were advised that for every one job created in the aerospace industry...four other jobs are created elsewhere in the country!

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 23 Jan 2019 05:00

Made-In-India fighters: Rafale fire rains on MiG’s retirement parade
https://defenceupdate.in/made-in-india- ... nt-parade/

The Indian Air Force’s wait for new fighter jets to replace an ageing MiG fleet is set to get longer. The selection process to identify combat aircraft to be made in India is unlikely to commence before the general elections this year, high-level sources indicate. Steps to induct a Future Multi-Role Fighter (FMRF) has been awaited since 2016, when the deal to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets was signed and a decision was taken to manufacture 110 fighters under a new strategic partnership policy intended to promote the private sector. Several officials ET spoke to confirmed that responses have been received from seven companies after a preliminary request. The inputs were being studied to firm up the technical requirement the Air Force would mandate for the formal selection process to begin, the officials said. The slack is on account of the shadow cast by the Rafale controversy that has impacted decision making.

Multiple rounds of meetings have taken place with foreign vendors who have responded to the preliminary request, and the Air Force has been studying how much of indigenous production it can mandate for the contract. The plan is to ensure that fighters made in India under the scheme have no less than 45% local content. “As things stand, it will not be possible to move ahead quickly as the matter is being studied. The competition can now only begin once a government is in place after the upcoming elections,” sources told ET. The biggest decision to be made by the Air Force is on the qualitative requirements – a set of performance and maintenance parameters – that will determine how many of the competitors even make the cut to the next level for validation trials. The fate of many competitors hang on this, given that at present, a variety of jets – from the single-engine SAAB Gripen to twin-engines such as Russian Su-35 – are vying for the contract.

Officials said the next step, issuing an ‘expression of interest’ to foreign vendors as well as Indian suppliers is not expected to take place before elections, contrary to some expectations that the process could be announced at the upcoming Aero India show in Bengaluru next month. Sharing details, sources said that unlike in case of the competition for 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft, the Air Force does not plan to carry out extensive field trials that could take up to two years. Instead, certain parameters would be individually assessed, most likely in the host nation of the jets on offer. “Six out of the seven competitors have already been flight tested. Yes, they have added some capability like new avionics and radars and we can have limited tests if needed,” an official said.

While at least a preliminary process for gathering information has started with foreign vendors, the defence ministry is yet to reach out to Indian companies that need to be selected to manufacture the jets domestically. According to the strategic partnership policy, the government needs to have in place a set of financial and technical parameters to identify these Indian companies. However, this has not kicked off yet for the fighter program. The Air Force, meanwhile, continues to grapple with a serious shortage of combat aircraft. The 36 Rafale jets which have been ordered would barely make up for the number of MiG jets that are retiring in the coming months. The IAF’s fighter strength is likely to go down to 29 squadrons by March this year, against a sanctioned 42 squadrons. The slowing down of the contract to induct 110 jets contract is likely to bring down fighter strength further in the coming three years.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Will » 23 Jan 2019 08:35

The way things work, the IAF will be lucky if this deal is signed in 5he next 5 years. That means 8-10 years before the first aircraft begin to arrive. By that time all the aircraft in the competition will be obsolete. Hate it as one may and keeping in mind Uncles sanctions whimsical sanctions, the F-35 seems to be the only sensible option in a govt-govt deal. :(

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Philip » 23 Jan 2019 10:28

If there is a clear mandate for the BJP things will move fast.Any coalition will see caution given the Raffy ruckus.

Easiest way to resolvd falling numbers, acquire more numbers of aircraft in service as " extras", No controversy at all.A few more MKIs, 29UGs, Jag upgrades and push LCA production using thw whip.120 aitcraft could be acquired this way. Analysts say that wd zctually need around 60 sqds. to meet the Sino- Paki threat.

Media today report massive increases in the Chinese navy and air force budgets with a decrease in the strength of the army.We can decide about long- term acquisitions after the elections

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby abhik » 23 Jan 2019 11:06

IMO the MoD is running on inertia, somebody's bad idea (MRCA) from a decade and a half ago has become institutional memory/policy. I bet this farse will continue for another 5 years till the IAF starts asking for a 5th gen fighter (drumroll... F35).

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby chetak » 23 Jan 2019 21:43

The rafale scenario is getting murkier with many players jousting overtly and covertly. Pappu may just be a minor league player in this scam to oust the rafale.

somewhere else, SAAB has offered to make the grippen in India. too bad that the engine is US made, leaving us at grave risk once again.


‘Will Make India The Sole Global F-16 Production Facility’: Lockheed Martin Sweetens Indian Air Force Aircraft Deal

US defence giant Lockheed Martin has projected exports to the tune of $20 billion from its proposed F-16 fighter aircraft manufacturing facility in India, reports Reuters.

The estimate is based on potential external demand for 200 aircraft, besides the 114 fighters which are required by the Indian Air Force (IAF).

The firm is involved in close competition with Boeing’s F/A-18, Saab’s Gripen, Dassault Aviation’s Rafale, the Eurofighter Typhoon and a Russian fighter to win a contract in excess of $15 billion to supply 114 jets to the IAF. The offer to shift production capacity to India is part of its bid to clinch the deal.

The vice president of strategy and business development at Lockheed Martin, Vivek Lall stated that the company plans to make India its sole F-16 manufacturing base both for domestic and global markets.

"We see current demand outside of India of more than 200 aircraft. The value of those initial acquisition programs would likely exceed $20 billion," he stated.

He revealed that Bahrain and Slovakia have already selected the F-16 Block 70 variant which has been offered to India. The report claimed that ten other countries are considering the fighter as well.

Lockheed Martin has chosen Tata Advanced Systems as its local partner for the proposed F-16 facility; it declared last year that two would produce wings for the aircraft in India, irrespective of being awarded the IAF contract.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby chetak » 23 Jan 2019 21:51

Saab Sweetens The Deal: 96 Gripens To Be Indigenously Manufactured If It Bags IAF’s Mega Fighter Jet Contract

Saab Sweetens The Deal: 96 Gripens To Be Indigenously Manufactured If It Bags IAF’s Mega Fighter Jet Contract

In an attempt to strengthen its chances of clinching the $20 billion Indian Air Force (IAF) order for 114 combat aircraft, Swedish defence giant Saab has proposed to carry out the manufacture of 96 of its Gripen fighters in India, reports Business Standard.

The order calls for commitment from sellers to provide sensitive technologies and to conduct the majority of the manufacturing in India itself.

The IAF had originally sent out a request for information (RFI) in April for the purchase of 114 fighters, most of which were to be manufactured in India through an Indian private entity that would partner with the foreign manufacturer under a technology transfer pact. The IAF is now considering the various responses from vendors, including that of Saab.

“Except the first 18 aircraft, we intend to manufacture everything in India. Saab will look to build an ecosystem of defence manufacturing inside the country,” Chairman and Managing Director of Saab India Ola Rignellsaid stated in an interview.

Saab has partnered with Adani Defence for the prospect of manufacturing the Gripen in India. The company, however, faces stiff competition from competitors like Dassault, Boeing and Lockheed, who have also tied with local partners.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby nachiket » 24 Jan 2019 13:29

Philip wrote:Media reports today say that retirement hopes of the worn out MIG fleet have been dashed by the Rafale controversies and a decision on a new fighter may be taken only after the 2019 elections.

There is no "may" about this. No decision is possible before the elections period. IMO no decision should actually be expected this year since the new government (whatever form it is in) will take time to find its feet and nobody wants to take big decisions about Fighter procurement thanks to the Rafale deal allegations.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Philip » 24 Jan 2019 13:55

The allegations that outside dntiyies are trying to sabotage the Raffy deal ring true.We discussed this at length at least 2 yrs. ago.Now even the report alleging that the EF offered a large discount on the Typhoon, making it allegedly cheaper than the Raffy, shows that apart from US lobbying, even the Europeans were doing a lot to sabotage the deal.This may explain the sphinx like attitude of St.Anthony and why the deal could not be satisfactorily concluded during UPA time.

It is now an open secret that Snake- Oil promised huge buys of US defenceware in exchange for the N - deal.
The pushes and pulls from different forces was too difficult for the UPA coalition to conclude the deal.It is to the credit of the NDA-2 and the PM that this Raffy knot was cut and the deal entered into albeit at an initial reduced number and perhaps inflated cost after years of dilly- dallying by the UPA.

Perhaps the increased cost however saw the revival of the MMRCA in this new avatar, first only for SE fighters. Once again throwing open the contest to both single and twin birds is however bewildering when the Raffy acquisition is in the pipeline, unless you factor in the Boeing and Lockheed birds where the US is putting intense pressure on this govt. to buy one of their two venerable birds 40+ yrs. old being pensioned off in favour of the JSF !

The IAF would be far better off standardising the number of types in service, acquiring upgraded and follow- on models from the same stables that have delivered for decades.I can only imagine the Gripen being chosen if LCA production of the MK-1A can't be ramped up fast enough to rellace the hundreds of MIGs retiring, or that development of the MK-2 is floundering and will not make the cut timewise.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby nachiket » 24 Jan 2019 20:44

Adding yet another type with its concomitant costs is madness at this point. The ideal alternative is to get 2 more squadrons of Rafales and get HAL to build 40 more MKI's. Also make a serious effort to hunt for used M2k's, at least to get the third squadron to full strength. IAF can make do with that till large numbers of Tejas come in. But the Rafale is politically untouchable and expensive and IAF doesn't seem very keen on more MKI's for some reason.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Philip » 24 Jan 2019 22:57

The first two points are fine but M2K upgrades at $50M a pop is ridiculous as a brand new MIG-35 with AESA TVC,, etc. is only $40M max.Extra Rafales makes more sense.Old MIG-29s which can be bought for a song and upgraded for just $10-13 M a pop is a better option to increase numbers in ltd. qty.

What the IAF really needs is a modern MIG-21 replacement atcreasonable cost which the LCA was to have been.By trying to turn it into a mini- M2K squeezing in so much eqpt., plus inflight refuelling ability given its range limitations inside a far smaller airframe, the ADA lost the plot. Why the MK-1 is overweight , underpowered and only the MK-2 will meet IAF parameters drawn up over two decades ago!

MIG were wiser when they developed two versions of the VG Flogger, the MIG-23 for air combat and MIG-27 for GA/ strike. The 23's development was curtailed as the thrust was given to development of the MIG-29 a far better aerodynamic design and versatile fighter.

Historically the lightweight Gnat performed well as an interceptor, and had limitations when it was developed into the Ajeet with extra pylons for ground attack ordnance. Perhaps it isn't too late to build two dedicated versions of the LCA, for air combat and GA/ CS..

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Kakarat » 13 Feb 2019 17:44

This is about CAG findings from MRCA Episode I

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1095648013844992002
Hey, @UAC_Russia, thought you might like the footnote on page 111 of the #RafaleCAGReport


Image

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 13 Feb 2019 19:00

Eurofighter, MiG-35, Gripen-E and Su-35 are not coming.

New MiG-29 Buy Afoot, Less Than Half The IAF’s Fighter Suitors Are Showing Up For Aero India 2019
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2019/02 ... a2019.html

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby nam » 13 Feb 2019 19:18

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1095648013844992002

Mig 35 met all AQSR parameters


If this is true, our procurement is a funny saga :D

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 13 Feb 2019 19:55

nam, I have moved your above post to this thread. Thank You.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby raghuk » 13 Feb 2019 20:01

nam wrote:https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1095648013844992002

Mig 35 met all AQSR parameters


If this is true, our procurement is a funny saga :D

I'm not a russophile but I always felt that the Mig 35 was unjustly ignored.
Cheers!

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Austin » 13 Feb 2019 20:25

There was a gent in the AF who was in the elite Mirafe squadron who mention to be in mid 2000 that IAF likes the Rafale and would get it and those elite M2K boys some flew the Rafale in France, this was at the initial phase of MMRCA, I thought he said since he was from mirage squadron and it was his love for French aircraft which made him say it.

Little did I know that a decade later IAF would get the Rafale.

IAF ASQR can be framed in a way to tilt the balance of one type over the other and if an institution liking for it then you are double assured to get it.

CAG latest report also states that IAF made the ASQR that highly favoured the Chinook over Mi-26 in the two heavy chopper race!

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 13 Feb 2019 23:47

There is an old and well known joke in Indian Defence procurement circles.

First the service waits for the platform to come out and then writes the ASQR around those platform's specifications.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby pandyan » 14 Feb 2019 05:25

nam wrote:https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1095648013844992002

Mig 35 met all AQSR parameters


If this is true, our procurement is a funny saga :D


@DFI_Sancho
Interesting by the fact that no Mig 35 was available by then (Mig 29 OVT and 29K did the trials), that neither the promised design changes, nor radar performance were achieved and how did they showcased the EW, since the older airframes didn't include MAWS/LWR/TD? Strange

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Austin » 14 Feb 2019 09:46

The MMRCA trials were done by Mig-29M/M2 which were later prcured by Egypt about 50 plus of them, Mig-35 is more like a marketing name for it , AFAIK from the press of that time AESA and BVR were demonstrated as well as other parameters.

Perhaps the reason now the IAF is scouting for more Migs , Irony of it all

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 15 Feb 2019 04:06

I am muted in this celebration due to the dastardly Pulwama Attack, but vindication for BRF jingos is in order. The IAF shared this view about F-16 and F-18 in the early 2000s. And we were narrow minded to think about sanctions :)

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1096032055006130178 ---> For the MATA or 'More American Than American' types, the CAG report highlights the sanction concerns the IAF had about the F-16 & F-A/18. Of course that was in the early 2000s, I wonder if the IAF still has those concerns.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 15 Feb 2019 04:49

CAG slams NDA-1 for delaying Rafale deal, but lauds its move against IAF pitch
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 001116.cms

The Vajpayee government took the right decision in asking the Indian Air Force to agree to a multi-vendor bidding process to acquire a new fleet of medium-range fighters but the process consumed four long years during which the IAF kept pressing for the specific choice of Mirage 2000-5 planes. The Comptroller & Auditor General's report on the Rafale acquisition traces the initiation of the proposal for the medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) with the IAF in 2000 seeking to acquire 126 Mirage jets for induction from 2004-05. Two squadrons were to be directly procured from Dassault and the rest produced in India by HAL under licence. The IAF's pitch for a single-source procurement was based on the Mirage's successful role in the 1999 Kargil war where the planes were used to target entrenched Pakistani positions high in the mountains. The proposal was not approved by the defence ministry on the grounds that this violated norms and called for a competitive tendering process.

The IAF did not give up its bid to acquire the advanced version of Mirage jets and resubmitted its proposal, stating that other options like Rafale, Eurofighter and F-35 planes were technologically superior but costlier. The force claimed that the "excess combat capacity" of the aircraft would remain under utilized. Despite another cold shoulder, the IAF resubmitted its proposal in December 2001. With IAF now arguing that the procurement be treated as a "repeat purchase", discussions were held between Dassault Aviation, HAL, DRDO and finance ministry from April to September 2002. In its report tabled in Parliament on Wednesday, the CAG expressed strong disapproval of this delay which dragged on till January 2004, before finally being junked and the IAF being directed to begin competitive tendering. Though the CAG report did not go into possible reasons why the then government indulged the IAF, it seems possible that the victory of the armed forces in the Kargil War - and the stellar role of the air force - may have made the Vajpayee government more receptive to the arguments for the Mirage 2000-5 acquisition. "Thus, four years were spent on deciding whether to procure the aircraft on single source basis or through competitive tendering," the CAG said.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby hemant_sai » 15 Feb 2019 14:30

Irony is we are putting so many brains - not to improve things but to make it worse. :) It doesn't look like a process cycle where feedback is taken to eliminate repeat of mistakes. What is the use of auditing decision making process when you cannot correct it before final decision is made. This whole system needs to be reevaluated as if it would be done in a private organization. Quality Result and Time both are important and should be the objective of any process.


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