MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 07 May 2019 00:50

Kartik wrote:Lockheed Martin Inaugurates New F-16 Production Facility
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... n-facility

Not having F-16 production in India has resulted in job losses for the Indian populace :mrgreen: :P

The ball is not rolling in other sectors of the Indian economy as a result of zero F-Solah production :lol:

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby srin » 07 May 2019 09:51

Karan M wrote:
Kartik wrote:For me personally, the top choice is the Rafale. Makes too much sense in terms of commonality with the 36 ordered, plus the capability of the jet itself and the weapons it brings. Add the naval order for 57 and the 114 + 57 +36 gives us a total of 207 Rafales.

But if not the Rafale, then it should be the Super Hornet, if and only if, extensive ToT is possible. Capability wise, it is easily a generation above anything the PAF has or is likely to have anytime soon. And I would really hope that the IAF include at least 18 Growlers as part of the mix.


Forget about TOT beyond screwdriver level for anything American. The South Koreans opened up their fancy American nav-FLIR sensors to peek inside and the Americans found out via spies, checked the seals and also suspended arms cooperation for a long while. :lol: :lol:


I don't understand the meaning of "TOT". Honestly, I don't care if the manufacturing is done here or not, but at the *minimum*, we should ...
- be able to integrate our missiles/bombs (or our chosen munitions) without going to the OEM
- be able to procure/replace major components/subsystems if the supply chain is disrupted (Personally, I don't think our frontline combat aircraft should be American due to CAATSA, sanctions etc). Probably means we will need to make the major subsystems ourselves (engines, radars etc here).
- be able to make other modifications with/without blessing of OEM (say, we want to put Uttam derivative on it).

So, to me TOT means strategic autonomy (ex: option to do a Pokhran-3 without hamstringing our AF or defy CAATSA to procure S-400) than assembly/manufacturing.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Cain Marko » 07 May 2019 11:57

The rafale is the best choice and had always been the br favorite, that spine makes it worthy. Heh.

If not, I'd rather see a straightforward purchase of the fulcrum, lock stock and barrel with full freedom to change whatever the heck the IAF and Navy wants. Both these services now have extensive experience with every version of this bird and with proper support agreements could make a fulcrum mki that will serve very well for mrca purposes. Should be affordable too.

My guess is that the iaf will get 36 rafale and that's that. The rest is all hot air. The Navy will likely buy shornets or fulcrums since it is most likely to buy US hardware between the two services There it is.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 07 May 2019 18:06

srin wrote:I don't understand the meaning of "TOT". Honestly, I don't care if the manufacturing is done here or not, but at the *minimum*, we should ...
- be able to integrate our missiles/bombs (or our chosen munitions) without going to the OEM
- be able to procure/replace major components/subsystems if the supply chain is disrupted (Personally, I don't think our frontline combat aircraft should be American due to CAATSA, sanctions etc). Probably means we will need to make the major subsystems ourselves (engines, radars etc here).
- be able to make other modifications with/without blessing of OEM (say, we want to put Uttam derivative on it).

So, to me TOT means strategic autonomy (ex: option to do a Pokhran-3 without hamstringing our AF or defy CAATSA to procure S-400) than assembly/manufacturing.

Srin Saar, none of the wish list above will be permitted on American platforms. Even going to Boeing or Lockheed Martin will mean squat. GOTUS has to approve and they will not. If we can do it for cheaper, then who will want to pay more money for the American sub-system? If we could put the Astra BVRAAM on a F-16 or F-18, who will want the AIM-120 which will be more expensive? The same holds true for the Euro consortium.

Saab, Dassault, Sukhoi and MiG will be more amenable to the first point, but you will have to go through the OEM. You need the weapon system to interface with the radar. On the supply chain issue, since the Rafale is entirely French...we have no other choice but to go there onlee. Saab is like the United Nations. Parts for the Gripen are sourced the world over. See image below my post.

Saab, Dassault, Sukhoi and MiG will permit you to make modifications but for a cost. In the case of BrahMos integration, Sukhoi wanted an arm & a leg. India did it on her own. We got lucky that time. Not necessarily going to happen every time though.

Moral of the story ---> Stay away from the American birds. Stay away from the Euro consortium. Stay away from the Gripen, because that is what Tejas Mk2 is. Stay away from the Russian birds - the IAF does not want them. Only Dassault is left. And another 36 - 44 would be ideal for the IAF.

Image

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby srin » 07 May 2019 18:44

Cain Marko wrote:The rafale is the best choice and had always been the br favorite, that spine makes it worthy. Heh.

If not, I'd rather see a straightforward purchase of the fulcrum, lock stock and barrel with full freedom to change whatever the heck the IAF and Navy wants. Both these services now have extensive experience with every version of this bird and with proper support agreements could make a fulcrum mki that will serve very well for mrca purposes. Should be affordable too.

My guess is that the iaf will get 36 rafale and that's that. The rest is all hot air. The Navy will likely buy shornets or fulcrums since it is most likely to buy US hardware between the two services There it is.



Rakesh wrote:Moral of the story ---> Stay away from the American birds. Stay away from the Euro consortium. Stay away from the Gripen, because that is what Tejas Mk2 is. Stay away from the Russian birds - the IAF does not want them. Only Dassault is left. And another 36 - 44 would be ideal for the IAF.


Absolutely agree on American birds, the eurofighter and the Gripen. Buy some more Raffys, get the ability to customize it to our tastes (now or in future) and have Dassault bear the risk.

Otherwise, I go with what CM saar is saying: get a good and cheap airframe even if avionics is not upto par - like the Mig-29K/35 - with full supply chain and risk, and make it ours: replace its radar with our own, put our chosen BVR and WVR missiles on it, and someday, put our engines on it.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 07 May 2019 20:27

Srin Saar, take a look at this. Weapon integration on the Rafale.

http://rafalenews.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html

You have Python 5, Astra Mk2, BrahMos-A, Spice-Series, Paveway-Series, Mk-8X Series.

All weapon platforms/systems not of French origin which are or will be carried on the Rafale. And the IAF has (or will have) all of the above in the inventory. This is just one reason why the IAF loves the Rafale so much. The plane itself is excellent, but the ability to put your own weapon systems (for a cost obviously!) is a big plus point. With the US and Euro Consortium, not so much.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby nash » 08 May 2019 01:37

MICA-NG looks dual seeker - Second generation of MICA designed against stealthy targets. Infrared seeker will use a matrix sensor providing greater sensitivity. The radio frequency seeker will use an AESA.

Any other missile which will have both IR and RF seeker in future.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Aditya_V » 08 May 2019 13:13

Rakesh wrote:Srin Saar, take a look at this. Weapon integration on the Rafale.

http://rafalenews.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html

You have Python 5, Astra Mk2, BrahMos-A, Spice-Series, Paveway-Series, Mk-8X Series.

All weapon platforms/systems not of French origin which are or will be carried on the Rafale. And the IAF has (or will have) all of the above in the inventory. This is just one reason why the IAF loves the Rafale so much. The plane itself is excellent, but the ability to put your own weapon systems (for a cost obviously!) is a big plus point. With the US and Euro Consortium, not so much.


what is the Narang Buddy to Buddy refueling , is it India specific, is this website legit, Brahmos and Astra Mk2 are planned to be put on Rafale.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby habal » 08 May 2019 17:50

Can the MiG manufacturing and assembly line be shifted to India including tools, dies, engine tech, and all knowhow. In return India helps fund MiG-41 ?? Can something like this be worked out with Russia if we choose MiG-29/35.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Aditya_V » 08 May 2019 17:52

Why do want a 30 year old design, why not just manufacture Tejas in numbers and continue the Su-30 production, why reinvent the wheel for Mig 29?

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 08 May 2019 20:44

Aditya_V wrote:What is the Narang Buddy to Buddy refueling, is it India specific....

Narang Buddy to Buddy Refueling is a NOT an Indian product, despite having a name that "sounds" Indian. NARANG stands for Nacelle de Ravitaillement en Vol de Nouvelle Generation which translated into English is ---> New Generation In-Flight Refueling Pod. See below...

The Dassault Rafale
http://www.airvectors.net/avrafa.html

The F3 standard also added DVI and other cockpit enhancements; the Gerfaut helmet-mounted sight; support for the "Rover" ground-air datalink system; and support for an improved tanker pod, the "Nacelle de Ravitaillement en Vol de Nouvelle Generation (NARANG / New Generation In-Flight Refueling Pod)".


Aditya_V wrote:...is this website legit, Brahmos and Astra Mk2 are planned to be put on Rafale.

As for the legitimacy of the website, what the author has indicated has been reported by other sources as well. See below...

BrahMos-NG

Very early in development, but will eventually land up on the Rafale.

Brahmos Aerospace working on a reduced size "Brahmos Mini" version for Rafale and Mig-29K
https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.p ... -29k-.html
08 Nov 2012

The company's first focus will be the integration of the future Brahmos mini on future Indian platforms such as the Rafale (winner of MMRCA) and Mig-29K of Indian navy.


It’s Official: IAF To Get ‘3 x BrahMos’ Load-Out Option By 2021
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/06 ... ption.html
30 June 2017

The effort to shrink the BrahMos, first revealed here on Livefist in 2012, also aims to extend the capability to the IAF’s upgraded MiG-29s, incoming Rafale jets and Indian Navy’s MiG-29Ks, none of which can currently deploy a BrahMos-A. The smaller BrahMos is likely to be designated the BrahMos NG (the BrahMos-2 is the in-development hypersonic version of the missile).

Astra Mk2

Again very early in development, but will eventually land up on the Rafale.

10 reasons why the Indian Rafale is evolution itself
https://www.dailyo.in/variety/rafale-ai ... 18157.html

The Rafale deal also includes assurances for coding extensions to other in-development Indian weapon systems, including the Astra BVRAAM.

PYTHON 5

Rafael targets Indian Rafale opportunity
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ty-397894/
07 April 2014

Israeli guided weapons manufacturer Rafael is offering its Python 5 and Derby air-to-air missiles for integration with some of the Dassault Rafales expected to enter service with the Indian air force.

SPICE-Series

Rafael steps up weapons offer for Tejas
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... as-433955/
08 Feb 2017

Rafael will also supply systems for the Indian air force’s future fleet of 36 Dassault Rafales, acting as a subcontractor to Dassault, Miller says. This will include Spice 250 and Spice 1000 precision-guided bombs to be used by both the French-built type and the Tejas, he adds.

Paveway-Series

A picture is worth a thousand words :)

Image

Mk-8X Series

These are Mk-82s....

Image

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Peregrine » 13 May 2019 22:59

F-21 jets will not be sold to any other country if we get IAF contract: Lockheed Martin - PTI

NEW DELHI: US aerospace giant Lockheed Martin says it will not sell its newly rolled out F-21 fighter jet to any other country if India places an order for 114 planes, a move aimed at pitching itself ahead of its US, European and Russian competitors for the mega deal.
Cheers Image

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Karan M » 13 May 2019 23:17

Of course not. They will only sell the F-23, the F-25, the F-27, the F-29. :rotfl:

Also, they have already taken the SABR (radar) on the F-21 and sold it (IIRC) to Korea, to Taiwan and other countries looking for F-16 upgrades.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 13 May 2019 23:23

Whoa! Hold on a second!! :lol:

How is India supposed to be exporting F-21s to other countries, if LM will not permit it?

Who in LM comes up with such wonderful gems of thought? :D

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby LakshmanPST » 14 May 2019 00:18

These news articles & leaks from American Teen jets are so funny...
Now and then I wonder what purpose these articles serve...
IAF and MoD know about these planes anyway... So, these articles are not going to effect their decisions...
The only purpose I see is that they want to build negative opinion against the govt. among general public for not considering the 'best' offer... Indirect way of pressurising the govt....

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Khalsa » 14 May 2019 15:57

F-21 offends me at some many levels.
I know its a re-painted F-16 i.e renamed.
Changing its name is somehow magically increasing its air frame hours by 33%
engine options are now called engine matrixes... Keanu Strikes !!
Somehow I will forget that sometimes you gave for free other times at discount of 60% to my arch enemy pakistan.
FFS

the sting in there is .... 21 ... really ..... come you could not chose 17 or 19 or 20 ... had to chose 21.
well guess what

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Kartik » 24 May 2019 04:18

From AW&ST


Saab Ramps Up Gripen E Flight Testing For First Deliveries

Aerospace Daily & Defense Report May 22, 2019 , p. 1
Tony Osborne

LINKOPING, Sweden—Saab plans to have eight of its new-generation Gripen E combat aircraft flying by the end of this year as it ramps up flight testing.


The company already has two JAS 39Es flying from its Linkoping base, 39-8 and 39-9, with company officials revealing that the third aircraft, 39-10, could fly in the next couple of weeks.

Serial production of the aircraft already is underway, with four aircraft currently undergoing final assembly, including the first aircraft destined for Brazil.

Several of these will be production-standard aircraft but equipped with flight test instrumentation. The second aircraft is also now flying with its extensive sensor suite, including the electronic warfare suite, the Leonardo-developed Raven active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar and infrared search and track.

The company also has tested the swashplate that gives a level of mechanical steering to the AESA radar, boosting its field of view.

“We are getting more out of each individual flight test hour, which we didn’t anticipate,” said Eddy de La Motte, the head of the Gripen E program at Saab.

Flight tests are being performed by a joint test and evaluation team that includes personnel from Saab and the Swedish defense materiel agency FMV. Later this will expand to personnel from Brazil.

Saab currently is finishing up modifying aircraft 39-7, the two-seat Gripen demonstrator that is now being used as a flying test rig for Gripen E systems, including the new wide-area display that is being fitted in the rear. Sweden elected to adopt the wide area display developed by Brazilian firm AEL Sistemas last year, and the configuration will now be the standard fit for production Gripen Es. The Gripen Es are currently flying with three multifunction displays in the cockpit. The first Gripen E to receive the wide-area display will be the first aircraft destined for Brazil.

Saab 39-7, along with one of the Gripen Es, will go to Switzerland to support flight evaluation for the country’s fighter contest.

Recent milestones for the program include flights maneuvering up to 9g. The aircraft also achieved the highest-ever level speed by a Gripen-family aircraft, but the company did not disclose the speed.


Saab deputy chief test pilot Marcus Wandt told Aerospace DAILY that Gripen E’s flight control system enabled levels of maneuverability similar to that of the Gripen C/D, and that the aircraft “carried its weight well” given the increased weight, size and bulk compared to the earlier, smaller model of the aircraft. As on the previous version, the Gripen E has been designed to operate from short runways and highway strips. Beefed up brakes and deflective movement of the canards help slow down the aircraft on touchdown. In simple terms, the carefree-handling flight control system has two modes, gear up and gear down, allowing for the higher/lift lower speed configuration for landing, Wandt said.

“We want the aircraft to fly like the Gripen C/D in terms of maneuvering,” de La Motte said.

Saab currently has orders for 60 Gripens from Sweden and 36 aircraft for Brazil including eight two-seat versions, development of which is taking place in Brazil with a joint Swedish/Brazilian team.

Power-on of the first Brazilian aircraft already has been completed and is one of 21 Brazilian aircraft that will be built in Sweden. Of those 21, eight will be built jointly by Brazilian teams as part of their training.

Saab also is strengthening its presence with the opening of a Brazilian affiliate, Saab Aeronautica Montagens. It will start operations in 2020 building forward and rear fuselages, and the wing box in Sao Bernardo do Campos for both Swedish and Brazilian aircraft.

Fifteen of Brazil’s first batch of 36 aircraft will be built entirely in Brazil.

Development of the two-seat Gripen F is proceeding apace. The addition of a second cockpit requires the lengthening of the fuselage by 65 cm and adjustments to the electrical system to cope with the additional avionics and oxygen system. The design of the ducting from the air intake to the engine also is being redesigned and the fuselage strengthened, to deal with increased bending moments.


“We are trying to keep everything as similar as possible. All the systems are the same. All the displays are the same. Minor changes will also be needed to the flight control system,” de La Motte said.

The two-seat version is designed to be fully operational, with the two cockpits independent from each other to enable the rear-seater to operate the EW system.
De La Motte says he does not expect any significant impact on the two-seat model’s performance. First flight of a two-seat Gripen is expected in 2022.


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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Kartik » 24 May 2019 04:22

From AW&ST

Saab Developing Podded EW System
Aerospace Daily & Defense Report May 22, 2019 , p. 6
Tony Osborne


LINKOPING, Sweden—Saab is preparing to flight test a new jammer pod using the technologies from the electronic warfare system fitted to the new Gripen E fighter.


The flight trials are planned for later this year initially using the older Gripen C/D aircraft. They are the first step toward a new, internally funded product the company is calling Arexis. It is an escort jammer that will be able to perform electronic attack and intelligence gathering against enemy air defense systems as well as be capable of jamming even wide-band VHF/UHF bands increasingly being adopted to try to counter low-observable aircraft.

“We have taken the building blocks from the Gripen E and made an EW system that can fit any aircraft,”
says Petter Bedoire, Saab’s vice president and head of marketing for electronic warfare system, speaking here May 21.

“It will supplement the onboard EW system ... not all aircraft are as well-endowed as the Gripen E,” he added.

The company has presented details on the Arexis concept at several trade shows, but now has built a prototype pod weighing in at 350 kg (770 lb.) to conduct customer demonstrations and evaluations. The pod features a wideband AESA array at each end. It also has been fitted with the same black boxes that control the Gripen E EW system. Saab also has developed bigger and lower frequency versions of the different antennas, Bedoire said.

“Within NATO now there is a surge for this kind of capability, and we will be the first out to be able to demonstrate a system with this frequency range,” Bedoire added.

Competitors to Arexis include systems developed by France’s Thales and Italy’s Elettronica, as well as pods from Israel and the U.S.

The prototype jammer in its current form takes power from the aircraft, because the Gripen has ample power generation for the system. The pod also features a small inlet for cooling.

But Bedoire says other NATO types will probably demand the use of a ram air turbine to power the pod.


Operational Arexis pods will feature wings filled with antenna dipoles to produce the required power to jam the VHF/UHF bands.

Bedoire says an Arexis product could be ready for market in 12 months.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Karan M » 24 May 2019 07:11

Learn marketing from the SAAB guys. Product isn't ready, yet passed off as the greatest thing since sliced bread.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby brar_w » 24 May 2019 19:54

That is some slick marketing even for SAAB (who've marketed the Gripen-E (essentially a smaller Block 60 F-16 or Rafale) as some sort of 6th generation fighter). Jane's did an extensive webinar on the Arexis that sounded like a SAAB infomercial a year or so back. The problem with their PR push is that a 300 kg pod, that is unpowered, and that is designed around wideband operations to cover as many bands/emmitters as possible is nothing more than a last ditch effort to fit a high end self protection capability on an aircraft. It will give you little or no performance as an escort or stand off jammer. No fighter aircraft is going to be have surplus power sitting around to power somthing like this if you increase the jamming requirements and add range into the equation. Heck, the USN wanted to combine the Mid band and High band jamming needs (S band through MMW) into one pod and their AOA basically said that it could not be done technically without compromising performance hence directed them to develop individual pods to cover that specturm.

This with available and demonstrated RAT solutions in the 60-80kW range and with the most cutting edge thermal solutions designed specifically for this role. And on top of that, they have just one prototype and apparently this thing will be ready to go in a year. There must be a reason why, this thing has been doing the PR rounds for a couple of years and has exactly ZERO takers so far, just like some of their radar products. I remember SAAB claiming the first export success (in the world) of their GaN radar to an undisclosed customer back in 2017. It is only in 2019 that we learnt that they sold a couple of radars for evaluation to a ME customer and that the same radar is currently undergoing testing with the Swedish Armed Forces with induction plans in 2020 and beyond.

The prototype jammer in its current form takes power from the aircraft, because the Gripen has ample power generation for the system. The pod also features a small inlet for cooling.


The USN NGJ solution onboard a Growler will comprise of 3 pods that will cover the Low and Mid band frequency range (high band program will come later although legacy high band pods are available but are used less often). That's 2 Mid band pods which generate 65kW of power each, and one Low Band pod (in the center line using the "aircraft" for jamming at low bands) which will probably also have > 50kW of power needs though that is being determined right now. Unpowered, relatively light weight pods offer very little range performance against very agile emitters so these will be nothing more than self defense or perhaps terminal escort pods but that would bring to question the capability of the organic EW system on the Gripen-E which is supposed to handle self-defense needs.

Anything more powerful, requiring external power, would degrade the performance of the Gripen-E considerably. It is not a good platform for such missions.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby deejay » 24 May 2019 21:40

Khalsa wrote:F-21 offends me at some many levels.
I know its a re-painted F-16 i.e renamed.
Changing its name is somehow magically increasing its air frame hours by 33%
engine options are now called engine matrixes... Keanu Strikes !!
Somehow I will forget that sometimes you gave for free other times at discount of 60% to my arch enemy pakistan.
FFS

the sting in there is .... 21 ... really ..... come you could not chose 17 or 19 or 20 ... had to chose 21.
well guess what

Image


Yup, Abhi proved that 21 is > 16. So US wants to grow to 21. Teen to an adult, hain ji. Yet all they did was stick a mustache. What's their song - " He stuck a feather to his cap and called him Mc-a-roony"

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Kartik » 31 May 2019 23:07

Saab advances Gripen E test program

Image

Saab has begun run tests of the third Gripen E test aircraft ahead of a pending first flight, as the Swedish company ramps up development of the new fighter to enable it to reach its key operating parameters during these advanced stages of testing.

Test aircraft 39-10 is due to fly “quite soon,” the company said, following examples 39-8 and 39-9 that are already involved in the test campaign. These will additionally join the twin-seater 39-7 aircraft that has been converted into a more production-representative standard from the demonstrator configuration it was previously developed into.

The aircraft being used in the testing are now operating at a standard more illustrative of the aircraft that are expected to be delivered to both Sweden and Brazil—the two existing customers for the variant—by the end of 2019. Furthermore, Saab entered serial production for the Gripen E at the beginning of 2019, demonstrating the program’s advancement towards this later stage of development.

Recent milestones include Gripen E carrying the MBDA Meteor beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile, as well as a firing test of the Diehl short-range IRIS-T air-to-air weapon, both of which utilized test aircraft 39-8. “We are flying this on a daily routine basis and running updates fast on the test aircraft,” Eddy De La Motte, head of Saab’s Gripen E/F business unit, told media at the company’s Linköping, Sweden site in May.

The Gripen E is based on a software and mission system design that permits it to be easily updated, which is allowing the company to make modifications to the test aircraft as new technologies are ready to be introduced into the program. This includes the tactical and electronic warfare systems that have been introduced into the testing, as well as the Leonardo ES-05 Raven AESA fire control radar.

De la Motte noted that throughout the expansion of the test program Gripen E reached a force of 9g in recent weeks, and the company is ramping up the number of aircraft that will be available as well as the number of flights per aircraft this year. A speed record in level flight for Gripen has also been achieved, he added, although the exact speed has not been disclosed.

...

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby LakshmanPST » 06 Jun 2019 06:06

https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/2019/0 ... 559650290/

The U.S. State Department has approved a possible $1.7 billion sale to Bulgaria of eight F-16 Viper fighter jets and related equipment.

The contract includes eight F-16 C/D Block 70/72 aircraft, also known as the F-16V, with spare parts, weapons and engineering, and logistical support services, the Defense Security Cooperation Agency announced Monday.


That's $ 212 Million per aircraft...

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Philip » 06 Jun 2019 13:57

The F-21 offer is intetesting for the number chosen.A freudian slip to the real "21" bird and slayer of the F-16, the MIG-21 Bison!

When we have a MK-2 LCA programme running, what need is there for another western foghter when a lot of LCA components from the engine upwards is of western origin? Increased production can easily bd done by setting up lines in the pvt. sector, just as is being contemplated for the F-21 and other contestants.

To make up dwindling numbers, extra purchases of aircraft already in service- latest variants of SU-30s, MIG-29s/35s and extra aircraft of these types incl.M2Ks offered in service with other nations , plus extra Rafales- already on their way would bd the most cost-effective and practical solution.

The LCA Mk-2 specs mentioned in reports now make it enter the med. category, at the lower end of that group.Therefore with the AESA radar and even the possibility of a TVC engine if the EJ option is looked at, it would be a far better proposition than another import adding to the inventory.Nevertheless, the improved 80 MK-1As , replacements for retiring MIG-21s of non- Bison std. has to be built at much higher production rayes.No harm in opening more prod. lines which will later produce Mk-2s in the future.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby LakshmanPST » 07 Jun 2019 11:00

the improved 80 MK-1As , replacements for retiring MIG-21s of non- Bison std. has to be built at much higher production rayes.


OT question, based on what Philip wrote...

How many MIG 21s & how many variants does IAF operate...? And when are they due for retirement...?
Wiki says IAF operates only 112 MIG 21 (Bison Standard)... It does not mention anything about Non-Bison MIG 21s...
But some articles I read say that IAF operates around 200-250 MIG 21s of all variants...
What is the correct figure...???

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Khalsa » 07 Jun 2019 17:19

Good ask Lakshman, we operate more than Bisons. The squadron that is due to change over to Rafael is not operating Bisons but a type 96 i believe.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby LakshmanPST » 07 Jun 2019 21:08

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ ... -dna-45897

This article says that IAF operates 244 MIG 21s & 84 MIG 27s as of 2018...
So, we have around 130 MIG 21s of Non-Bison Standard...
But I couldn't find any other reliable article giving exact number...
Anyways, sorry for going off-topic...

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 08 Jun 2019 00:00

US firm to make F-21 in India
https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... 84253.html

US military aviation giant that is offering its F-21 fighter jet to India, says it will make the jet locally and is already working to tie up with Indian suppliers. The firm along with six other global companies is in the tender to produce 110 fighter jets for the Indian Air Force.

On being asked how different is the F-21 jet from the iconic F-16, Vivek Lall, Vice-President, Aeronautics Strategy and Business Development, Lockheed Martin, said, “It has three elements — capability, make in India and cost-effectiveness — all specially configured for India.”


“This is designed as an Air Force fighter and not a naval fighter. Even the F-16 will be the backbone of the US air force till 2048 and we are looking at F-21 for 50-60 year period. Being a single engine fighter it will be 30 to 40 per cent cheaper to operate,” he added. The company is ready to help :roll: :lol: in making the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) that India is developing on its own.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 08 Jun 2019 00:01

From 2017.....

Image

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Philip » 08 Jun 2019 08:03

While the Rafale is a fine bird the big Q facing the DM is how many almost equivalent alternative birds can you get for the price of one Rafale? Dassault must reduce their price to remain competitive.With so many mouths to feed economically in civvy street, making up enough numbers to fight a 2 front war will be a v.tall task.The IAF must adopt cost-effective acquisitions like the mothballed Ru MIG-29s and any surplus M2Ks available provided the upgrade cost at $50M a pop is reduced.

Opening out the LCA programme to the pvt. sector is the best short and long-term solution as it will widen the support base, increase production rates, bring down unit costs and lay a strong foundation for future programmes like the AMCA.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby srai » 08 Jun 2019 12:15

LakshmanPST wrote:
the improved 80 MK-1As , replacements for retiring MIG-21s of non- Bison std. has to be built at much higher production rayes.


OT question, based on what Philip wrote...

How many MIG 21s & how many variants does IAF operate...? And when are they due for retirement...?
Wiki says IAF operates only 112 MIG 21 (Bison Standard)... It does not mention anything about Non-Bison MIG 21s...
But some articles I read say that IAF operates around 200-250 MIG 21s of all variants...
What is the correct figure...???

We can work it out backwards from squadron numbers.

It’s been widely reported that the IAF us down to 31 squadrons. So that means
  • 6 x MiG-21 Bison
  • 3 x MiG-29
  • 3 x Mirage-2000
  • 6 x Jaguar
  • 12 x Su-30MKI
  • 1 x LCA Mk.1 IOC-2
That already totals around 31 squadrons. Another 4 squadrons (2 Rafale, 1 Su-30MKI and 1 LCA Mk.1) under production. In the near future, 6 squadrons (1 MiG-29, 1 Su-30MKI, and 4 LCA Mk1A) are in the plans.

Note: There might be couple of MiG-27UPG and MiG-21Bis squadrons in the process of being retired. MiG-21Bisons will be retired between 2022-2025.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby LakshmanPST » 10 Jun 2019 07:55

srai wrote:We can work it out backwards from squadron numbers.

It’s been widely reported that the IAF us down to 31 squadrons. So that means
  • 6 x MiG-21 Bison
  • 3 x MiG-29
  • 3 x Mirage-2000
  • 6 x Jaguar
  • 12 x Su-30MKI
  • 1 x LCA Mk.1 IOC-2
That already totals around 31 squadrons. Another 4 squadrons (2 Rafale, 1 Su-30MKI and 1 LCA Mk.1) under production. In the near future, 6 squadrons (1 MiG-29, 1 Su-30MKI, and 4 LCA Mk1A) are in the plans.

Note: There might be couple of MiG-27UPG and MiG-21Bis squadrons in the process of being retired. MiG-21Bisons will be retired between 2022-2025.


That's what I also did and calculated backwards... 6 Bison squadrons fit well when we back calculate...
There are also 2 MIG 27 UPG squadrons currently in operation... At the same time, AFAIK, there are only 2 M2k squadrons...
This would take the current strength to 32 squadrons...

But after seeing multiple articles claiming 250 MIG 21s in operation, I got a bit confused...
-
So, we'll be retiring 8 operational squadrons (6 Bisons and 2 MIG27s) by 2025... And will be adding 10...
1 Tejas Mk1 FOC
2 Rafale
2 Su30 MKIs (provided we order the extra 1 squadron)
1 MIG 29 (provided we order it)
4 Tejas Mk1A

That will take the strength to 34 squadrons by 2025-27...
So, if things go well we would not be needing MMRCA 2.0... They can simply order 2 more Rafale squadrons in a second G-to-G deal and be done with it...

Tejas Mk2 is the key...
I always thought MMRCA 2.0 is floated only as a back up plan, just in case Tejas Mk2 is not ready on time...
I hope I'm right and also Tejas Mk2 is ready on time...

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Khalsa » 10 Jun 2019 08:32

Guys I think there are some non bison Mig21s out there. Not trainers.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby srai » 10 Jun 2019 10:51

Khalsa wrote:Guys I think there are some non bison Mig21s out there. Not trainers.

If there are, then the IAF will have more than the reported 31 squadrons.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Kartik » 12 Jun 2019 00:38

Khalsa wrote:Guys I think there are some non bison Mig21s out there. Not trainers.


Yes there are. The ACM flew in one of them recently. MiG-21 Type 96 is still operated. Not sure as to how many squadrons still operate it or the exact numbers in operation.

link

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Kartik » 12 Jun 2019 00:39

Saab flies third Gripen E test aircraft

The pace of testing is increasing as Saab works towards getting the Gripen E into initial service with Swedish and Brazilian Air Forces.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Karan M » 12 Jun 2019 01:34

We really need to get Tejas Mk1A into ops. Its software cockpit display fusion is amazing and if we can pull it off, shows that we can do what gora-sahabs do at a fraction of the cost! Same as several of our desi DRDO programs, most of which were/are on a shoestring budget compared to western designs offering comparable performance with a fraction of the R&D cost.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Philip » 13 Jun 2019 02:36

If we can leverage the Malaysian order of a light fighter in Tejas' favour it would be a great coup.The MOD should keep pursuing this deal relentlessly as the Sino- Paki Blunder is also competing.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Kartik » 22 Jun 2019 00:35

Paris- Boeing looks to F/A-18 E/F Block III for overseas boost

...

The key publicly-known opportunities for the type are fighter requirements in Canada, Switzerland, Germany and Finland, as well as separate competitions for the Indian air force and navy.

Finland has also been cleared by the US government to possibly obtain the EA-18G Growler electronic warfare variant of the type for its HX fighter procurement, which is aimed at replacing its 62 Boeing F/A-18C/Ds.

Breckenridge says this is only the second time that the EA-18G has been approved for export. The only international operator of the EA-18G is the Royal Australian Air Force, which has 11 examples.

He listed a number of important updates for the Block III over the Block II. These include conformal fuel tanks for longer range, better connectivity with other assets, an infrared search and track (IRST), an advanced tactical data link and a new distributed targeting processor.

The Block III also has a lower radar cross-section, but Breckenridge notes that Boeing “didn’t overinvest in this". The airframe life have also been extended to 10,000hr, up from 6,000hr for the Block II.

..

In March 2019, Boeing secured a three-year contract from the US Navy for 78 F/A-18E/F Block III Super Hornets, with a total contract value of about $4 billion. It also has a programme to upgrade the navy’s existing Block IIs to the Block III standard.


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