MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

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ArjunPandit
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby ArjunPandit » 15 May 2020 14:09

nam wrote:There was never going to be a MRCA 2. GoI kept delaying the AoN, in return IAF kept delaying the MK1A order. Now the MK1A order was about to be signed, if the virus did not interfere, an AON "may" have been issued.

However at the same time, CDS already told the press, that things should be brought in trance. Fundamentally diluting any large import.

The Chinese virus gave the perfect excuse. IAF cannot go back on MK1A order, as everything was sorted out and plans must have been to sign in the new fiscal year; i.e March.

IAF and HAL played a nice little saga with MK1A.

wait for MoD babus on print or idrw to come up with story that how MoD saved tejas by being slow on MMRCA

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby sajaym » 15 May 2020 14:12

Notice how very gently the number is reduced from 114 to 83 and no one is asking about the 2 squadron worth of aircraft which have gone missing. This seems to be a very subtle hint of 2 more follow-on squadrons of Rafale. :wink:

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby TushS » 15 May 2020 15:30

sajaym wrote:Notice how very gently the number is reduced from 114 to 83 and no one is asking about the 2 squadron worth of aircraft which have gone missing. This seems to be a very subtle hint of 2 more follow-on squadrons of Rafale. :wink:

Missing 2 squadrons are probably going to filled by more Su-30MKI & Mig-29. :!:

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 15 May 2020 15:52

https://twitter.com/KSingh_1469/status/ ... 94529?s=20 ---> CDS’s comments (axing of MMRCA 2.0) has clearly changed what the IAF’s current and future force structure will look like.We can assume MWF orders will be expanded somewhat to cover shortfall faced by this cut and exercising of 3rd + 4th Rafale squadron is almost certain.

https://twitter.com/TheAlbatross15/stat ... 88993?s=20 ---> IMO...IAF will probably be more than happy if 36 - 48 Rafales were taken in a G2G and MMRCA 2.0 is scrapped. I do not know of any IAF fighter that was bought off competitive bidding anyway. All have been G2G. Yet we waste time and money. The rest, should be Indian ---> LCA Mk1A/2 (MWF) / AMCA.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby maitya » 15 May 2020 16:11


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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Ashokk » 15 May 2020 16:38

India seeks local warplanes as overseas purchase plan stalls
NEW DELHI: India plans to switch to locally-made fighter jets, two years after asking global companies to submit proposals to supply 114 combat aircraft in the world's biggest warplane contract.
The country's air force is finalizing plans to induct indigenously made Light Combat Aircraft, Tejas to boost the capability of its aging combat aircraft fleet, Chief of Defence Staff Bipin Rawat said in an interview in New Delhi. It will buy an additional 83 jets, apart from an earlier deal for 40 aircraft, for $6 billion, he said.
"The Indian Air Force is switching that to the LCA," Rawat said, when asked about the global tender for jets. "The IAF is saying, I would rather take the indigenous fighter, it is good."
The decision is a set back for the likes of Boeing Co, Lockheed Martin Corp and Saab AB who were in the race for the $15 billion order and another sign that India is abandoning costly foreign defense purchases which have been plagued by bureaucratic delays and a funding crunch. :D Prime Minister Narendra Modi this week stressed the need to buy locally made products to boost an economy battered by the Covid-19 outbreak.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby ArjunPandit » 15 May 2020 16:46

i think vivek lal read the tea leaves before anyone did..his departure should have indicated that to us..i had thought about it ..but i was thinking more like US is out, and not F18. Seems like its tejas and its derivatives all the way..but dont expect it to die down ..it is an ekta kapoor serial..dead characters may return if economy improves soon..or might be part of package deal with US to move industries...

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Nilanjan » 15 May 2020 17:22

I knew this is going to be happen 2-3 years earlier...i'm very happy to know we have started to stop wasting of money...now go for 100 percent swadeshi,not a single percent lesser....

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Manish_P » 15 May 2020 17:45

Hain.. it is not a set back for the french and russkies :?:

And a BJP spokesperson G V L Narasimha Rao did say yesterday:
"When we say local, it is not just local products made by domestic companies. Anything that is manufactured in India for us is local."

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby ArjunPandit » 15 May 2020 17:50

things are changing as we speak..i would not read by GVLNR, i would look at what CDS said and who's the IAF chief, and the fact that vivek lall left LM. Even a manufacturing of F21/16 would have been a great win for VL. He might have been asked politely to leave as is common in US companies..

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby abhik » 15 May 2020 17:54

Manish_P wrote:
Ashokk wrote:[b][url=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/india-seeks-local-warplanes-as-overseas-purchase-plan-stalls/articleshow/75752991.cms]...[b]The decision is a set back for the likes of Boeing Co, Lockheed Martin Corp and Saab AB...


Hain.. it is not a set back for the french and russkies :?:

And a BJP spokesperson G V L Narasimha Rao did say yesterday :
"When we say local, it is not just local products made by domestic companies. Anything that is manufactured in India for us is local."

Yup which why, hold your lungies tight until the deal for 83 is actually signed, MK-2 metal cutting starts and AMCA prototype is funded etc.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Manish_P » 15 May 2020 18:10

ArjunPandit wrote:things are changing as we speak..i would not read by GVLNR, i would look at what CDS said and who's the IAF chief, and the fact that vivek lall left LM. Even a manufacturing of F21/16 would have been a great win for VL. He might have been asked politely to leave as is common in US companies..

Correct. I, like others, had guessed the 'disappointment' of the powers-that-be when VL sahib was moved out. I never considered the swedes in the picture anyway. What i am trying to hear/see now is if there are sighs/sobs also emanating from the french coast and the russian steppes.

abhik wrote:Yup which why, hold your lungies tight until the deal for 83 is actually signed, MK-2 metal cutting starts and AMCA prototype is funded etc.

Indeed, Saar. Kaske pakde hain :)

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Vivek K » 15 May 2020 19:52

Tejas was the default MMRCA. Good to see the announcement. No way would the selection circus of a foreign fighter could be completed in 2-3 years. Our track record is 15-20 years to decide. The problem was in how to fund elections from military purchases. That is why foreign equipment is purchased in India. The Marut was rejected as an underpowered aircraft and replaced with an underpowered aircraft (Jaguar). The Arjun beat the T-90, yet IA ordered 1500 T-90s.

I am not convinced about the final decision yet. The circus will go on and attacks on Tejas will become bloodier now. In the end, the political class will resume their fundraising from foreign purchases and the corrupt mafia will continue to gleefully reject local products as Dubba or Boys with Toys etc. Unless there are contracts, interviews mean nothing.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Kartik » 16 May 2020 00:01

ArjunPandit wrote:things are changing as we speak..i would not read by GVLNR, i would look at what CDS said and who's the IAF chief, and the fact that vivek lall left LM. Even a manufacturing of F21/16 would have been a great win for VL. He might have been asked politely to leave as is common in US companies..


Dr Vivek Lall leaving LM has nothing to do with the chances of the F-21. Even yesterday LM's CFO, Ken Posseriede mentioned the F-21 offering for India in a conference organized by Goldman Sachs. Dr Vivek Lall was earlier with Boeing and pushing the Super Hornet, then changed sides to LM and started pushing the F-16 Block 70.

From AW&ST

Lockheed continues to compete for future awards for the F-16, including an order for up to 25 aircraft to a country in North Africa, he said. The candidates for the order in North Africa include existing customers Morocco and Egypt, along with potential interest by Tunisia.

Indonesia has ordered a batch of Sukhoi Su-35s, but is in talks with Lockheed for F-16s, he added. The Philippines could buy as many as 12, he said, and the Lockheed aircraft remains under consideration by Croatia.

The U.S. government also has cleared Taiwan to order 66 F-16s. The U.S. Air Force in April awarded a contract to GE Aviation to build the F110 engines for the Taiwanese aircraft, but has not awarded the airframe contract amidst continuing pressure against the order from China.

Finally, Lockheed has offered the improved, F-21 version of the aircraft to India, which could order more than 100 new fighters to replace an aging fleet of MiG-21s.
..


The clear direction must come from the MoD, that there will be no RFP released this year or later next year.

The real MMRCA for the IAF will now be the MWF, not the Tejas Mk1 or Mk1A which continue to be light fighters. Perhaps even 12 squadrons of MWF won't be enough now, it may need to scale up to 18 squadrons to cover the MMRCA requirement as well.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Sumeet » 16 May 2020 03:57

India should pursue both MWF and follow on batche(s) [ 1 - 3] of Rafale when F4 version matures including upgrading existing ones to F4 standard as well. There is no need for new circus called MMRCA 2.

Complete focus should be on indigenous R&D & production eco system for this whole decade for both MWF and Super Sukhoi upgrade and AMCA towards end of this decade.

We may collaborate on certain weapon systems and avionics as need be otherwise full emphasis should be on indigenous platforms which may house certain components that are foreign or have foreign sub components.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Kartik » 16 May 2020 04:44

Sumeet wrote:India should pursue both MWF and follow on batche(s) [ 1 - 3] of Rafale when F4 version matures including upgrading existing ones to F4 standard as well. There is no need for new circus called MMRCA 2.

Complete focus should be on indigenous R&D & production eco system for this whole decade for both MWF and Super Sukhoi upgrade and AMCA towards end of this decade.

We may collaborate on certain weapon systems and avionics as need be otherwise full emphasis should be on indigenous platforms which may house certain components that are foreign or have foreign sub components.


What is required is real funding and real political and armed forces commitment, and not just lip service about being self-reliant.

And yes, these two (MWF and another batch of 36-48 Rafales) should suffice for the IAF's need for MRCA this decade. The 2030s will all be about getting the AMCA into service while MWF deliveries are on-going. By then the MWF should be mature and fulfill all the roles it is intended to.

Super Sukhoi upgrade must be given absolute priority and with almost all indigenous equipment, including the Uttam radar and not a PESA Irbis from Russia.

Pragmatic indigenisation is the way to go- JV with international partners where required, but imports must be considered only in the case where no indigenous alternative is present, such as in the case of the MH-60R Romeo. The NUH for e.g. must be indigenous when there is a Naval ALH that can do the role. No point handing over billions of $ to a foreign firm for some private sector partner to just set up assembly line when no real insurmountable technology gap there that the Naval ALH cannot cross.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Manish_P » 16 May 2020 18:00

Didn't know the correct thread hence putting it here.

How does the below statement impact the scene vis a vis the MRCA?

Foreign Direct Investment limit in defence manufacturing under automatic route is being raised from 49% to 74%: FM

She also said the foreign direct investment (FDI) limit in defence manufacturing would be raised from 49 per cent to 74 per cent under the automatic route.



From ET -

Make in India push for defence

Indigenistion of imported spares
List of weapons/platforms to be notified for import ban
Separate budget for procurement
Improve autonomy, accountability in ordnance
FDI limit raised from 49% to 74%
Overhaul of testing systems

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby ldev » 16 May 2020 20:43

Manish_P wrote:

From ET -

Make in India push for defence

Indigenistion of imported spares
List of weapons/platforms to be notified for import ban
Separate budget for procurement
Improve autonomy, accountability in ordnance
FDI limit raised from 49% to 74%
Overhaul of testing systems


Makes it easier for LM or Boeing to set up an assembly line in India and still keep "key technology" under their control. The product will be advertised as "Made in India" under the "Make in India" initiative. If LM can offer a "Made in India" F-16 at prices comparable to a Tejas, then MMRCA 2.0 could still take on a life of it's own.

By the way, FDI >49% was still available, not just under the "automatic approval" rule. So now 74% is possible under "automatic approval" and higher percentages with specific approval. Cuts out red tape up to 74%

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 17 May 2020 00:05

ldev wrote:Makes it easier for LM or Boeing to set up an assembly line in India and still keep "key technology" under their control. The product will be advertised as "Made in India" under the "Make in India" initiative. If LM can offer a "Made in India" F-16 at prices comparable to a Tejas, then MMRCA 2.0 could still take on a life of it's own.

By the way, FDI >49% was still available, not just under the "automatic approval" rule. So now 74% is possible under "automatic approval" and higher percentages with specific approval. Cuts out red tape up to 74%

The OEMs need a minimum order of 100 aircraft to transfer the production line to India. It does not make financial sense for them to do so otherwise. The NDA Govt will not sign a deal for 114 MRCA - for a minimum of $20 billion - during COVID. Neither will they do so, post COVID. There is no money for this anymore. One way to circumvent this hurdle would be to *NOT* have an assembly line in India and directly acquire fighters from the OEM (as the first 18 aircraft in the 114 contract has to be in fly away condition). In that scenario the offsets will be via components, but will obviously not include anything on the engine or the radar. It will also drastically reduce the cost of MMRCA 2.0 when fighters are acquired in fly-away condition.

Right now the focus is on fulfilling the contracts that are in limbo (i.e. 83 Tejas Mk1A order) and continuing the payments on the contracts that have been signed (the 36 Rafale order, the S-400 order, the MH-60R order, the four Krivak III vessels, etc). The next phase will be looking at acquisitions of foreign products, albeit in small numbers. With regards to the MMRCA, an order of 36 aircraft will likely be acquired. But it will be a while before such a contract is signed.

The last of the 36 Rafales are due by April 2023 and the ISE updates on them will be complete by Sept 2023. These dates will likely be pushed by a few months, as the first batch of Rafales are already delayed by two months due to COVID. Elections are due by May 2024. The NDA Govt will delay the new MMRCA order (using lack of funds as a reason which is a valid one because of COVID and its effect on the global economy) till the end of their current term and leave the decision to the next govt. Defence Minister Rajnath Singh has said that the IAF will have to make do with the 36 Rafales for the short term. No Govt will sign anything during election season anyway.

In this scenario, the two OEMs that stand to gain the most are 1) Dassault and 2) Lockheed Martin. The geo-political scenario - post 2024/2025 - may make it favourable for the US Govt to grant permission to LM to sell the F-35 to India. Right now, that environment does not exist. No one has a crystal ball, but who knows what might happen in the future. That would be a big win for LM and a huge capability boost for the IAF. I personally believe that the relationship between the two nation will continue to progress.

Dassault equally stands to gain as they know 36 more Rafales can easily slot into the IAF's ORBAT. The infrastructure already exists and by 2024/2025, there will be a sizeable roster of qualified Rafale pilots to raise two more squadrons. And Dassault has no reason to worry about the capability of the Rafale. The IAF has made their satisfaction very clear to Dassault - from the Air Chief down.

In either scenario - F-35 or Rafale - aircraft will come in flyaway condition. Factory, Job Creation, Production Line, Export is all done. That mantle will now be taken over by the Tejas. There is no game changer in any of the other MMRCA contestants over the Rafale to make a case for 114 of them anyway. The F-35 is the only exception and that aircraft is not taking part in the (current and now defunct) MMRCA contest. Only time will tell who between Dassault and Lockheed Martin will get the next contract of 36 MRFA.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 17 May 2020 00:11

These articles were posted on BRF when it came out, but ties in to above....

Advantage Rafale? Foreign firms want clarity from IAF on ‘staggered’ purchase of fighters
https://theprint.in/defence/advantage-r ... rs/367303/
18 Feb 2020

India Prepares For New Fighter Tender
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... ter-tender
06 Feb 2020

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 17 May 2020 05:48

Manish_P wrote:Didn't know the correct thread hence putting it here.

How does the below statement impact the scene vis a vis the MRCA?

Foreign Direct Investment limit in defence manufacturing under automatic route is being raised from 49% to 74%: FM

She also said the foreign direct investment (FDI) limit in defence manufacturing would be raised from 49 per cent to 74 per cent under the automatic route.

Thank You Manish for posting this here. See this answer from Nitin Gokhale about MMRCA. The larger purpose of the video is to address the above issue. But see Nitin Gokhale's answer on the MMRCA from 7:36 to 10:36.

He raises many important points to make the viewer realize that MMRCA - in its current form - is dead or as Nitin Gokhale puts it...in LIMBO. Anyone who knows the inner workings of the MoD, knows fully well what "limbo" really means :)

I am happy that the MMRCA 2.0 is dead. It was a noose around India's neck. As a dear friend told me ---> no steak (F-21)....just salad (Tejas), dal chawal (more Tejas) and biryani (and even more Tejas). Thank you to my friend :)

The only winner out of this entire sordid episode is the Tejas. She will be India's single engine, mass produced fighter.


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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Manish_Sharma » 17 May 2020 10:26

ldev wrote:Makes it easier for LM or Boeing to set up an assembly line in India and still keep "key technology" under their control. The product will be advertised as "Made in India" under the "Make in India" initiative. If LM can offer a "Made in India" F-16 at prices comparable to a Tejas, then MMRCA 2.0 could still take on a life of it's own.

Stop dreaming, years ago Saudis paid 145 million dollar per F-16.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby MeshaVishwas » 17 May 2020 11:26

Manish_Sharma wrote:Stop dreaming, years ago Saudis paid 145 million dollar per F-16

Saudis do not operate F-16s.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby MeshaVishwas » 17 May 2020 11:29

Goodbye! :mrgreen:

Say Goodbye To India's Super F-16
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2 ... uper-f-16/

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rsatchi » 17 May 2020 12:46

Manish_P wrote:Hain.. it is not a set back for the french and russkies :?:

And a BJP spokesperson G V L Narasimha Rao did say yesterday:
"When we say local, it is not just local products made by domestic companies. Anything that is manufactured in India for us is local."


Manish-ji, Listen to this video explanation ---> https://youtu.be/wNNWJJzMlJw

I think there are wheels within wheels turning here!!! 8) Wonder if CDS has got the IAF on board for LCA by promising local production of 'Rafales'!! :roll: Plus maybe Tata/LM would be given a chance to start second line of LCA. Meaning everybody is happy? Also this 74% increase would make sense, don't you think.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Manish_P » 17 May 2020 15:48

Thank you sirs, for the videos. Will help me in processing the info. It is said that the devil is in the details. And our procurement system has devils at different levels. Hopefully there will be definite movement on this by the stakeholders and things will get unambiguous soon.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Manish_Sharma » 17 May 2020 20:55

MeshaVishwas wrote:
Manish_Sharma wrote:Stop dreaming, years ago Saudis paid 145 million dollar per F-16

Saudis do not operate F-16s.

Yes UAE, not Saudi bought F-16 Block 60.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby dinesha » 18 May 2020 19:36

IAF to acquire 450 fighter aircraft in future, says Air Force Chief RKS Bhadauria
https://www.timesnownews.com/india/arti ... ria/593673
New Delhi: In the future, the Indian Air Force is planning to acquire 450 fighter aircraft for deployment on the northern and western frontiers of the country, Air Force Chief RKS Bhadauria said on Monday.

The list of aircraft planned to be inducted by the Air Force include 36 Rafales, 114 Multirole Fighter Aircraft, 100 Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) and over 200 variants of the Light Combat Aircraft.

"In the next 15 years, 83 LCAs are our primary focus, after that LCA Mark 2 will come in we are looking at close to 100 of those, that makes it near 200 of LCA class," Bhadauria told ANI in an interview.

"AMCA, we are looking at six squadrons, so that puts it close to 100 (aircraft). So, in the indigenous domain areas which are already frozen in terms of our requirement, in terms of our understanding with DRDO in the fighter (segment)," said the Air Force Chief.

He added that the induction of these fighters would take place over a period of the next 35 years as the inductions have to be planned to keep in mind the future requirements.

The Air Force Chief said: "In the trainer aircraft segment, we are looking at 70 HTT-40 as a support aircraft to the Pilatus fleet. So, we are looking at 370 odd indigenous aircraft."

The IAF chief said that currently it was the best time from the point of view for indigenous production and said, "It is now the perfect time for industries to respond and come up with solutions which are rapidly put in place and come up to the challenge of delivering these aircraft."

On plans to acquire 114 multirole fighter aircraft, he said, "this project is in the middle-weight and is in the Rafale class, in this issue, we will deal with it in the Make in India region, with an increase in FDI, with support to the private sector. I think in future this will bring in technology which is required to support the aviation sector. I think it is important to have another generation of aircraft in terms of capability, technology as we go along."

A few months ago, the Indian Air Force was facing a shortage of around 10 squadrons of Combat Aircraft in view of phasing out of the MiG-21 and MiG-27 fighters planes.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby arvin » 18 May 2020 20:39

Just like F-16 was rebranded as F-21, LM will probably rebrand JSF as Janta Strike Fighter to win this 114 Multi role fighter deal.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby ldev » 18 May 2020 22:06

dinesha wrote:IAF to acquire 450 fighter aircraft in future, says Air Force Chief RKS Bhadauria
https://www.timesnownews.com/india/arti ... ria/593673

..........The list of aircraft planned to be inducted by the Air Force include 36 Rafales, 114 Multirole Fighter Aircraft, 100 Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) and over 200 variants of the Light Combat Aircraft..........

......"In the next 15 years, 83 LCAs are our primary focus, after that LCA Mark 2 will come in we are looking at close to 100 of those, that makes it near 200 of LCA class," Bhadauria told ANI in an interview.

"AMCA, we are looking at six squadrons, so that puts it close to 100 (aircraft). So, in the indigenous domain areas which are already frozen in terms of our requirement, in terms of our understanding with DRDO in the fighter (segment)," said the Air Force Chief.

He added that the induction of these fighters would take place over a period of the next 35 years as the inductions have to be planned to keep in mind the future requirements...........


........On plans to acquire 114 multirole fighter aircraft, he said, "this project is in the middle-weight and is in the Rafale class, in this issue, we will deal with it in the Make in India region, with an increase in FDI, with support to the private sector. I think in future this will bring in technology which is required to support the aviation sector. I think it is important to have another generation of aircraft in terms of capability, technology as we go along."



Ahem!!

The Defence Minister will not increase the FDI via the automatic route to 74% without a game plan and end result in mind to enable LM, Boeing, Dassault to set up an assembly line in India without the albatross of HAL around their neck.

There is no way the IAF will accept the LCA and only the LCA as the sole aircraft to be inducted into the IAF for the next 10 years.

The IAF is looking for induction of another generation of aircraft in terms of capability.

Foreign origin aircraft manufactured/assembled in India will be treated as "domestic acquisitions" and will get the benefit of the just announced dedicated capital acquisition budget for local purchases.

The geopolitical re-alignments underway for the past few years have been greatly accelerated and timelines compressed because of the coronavirus and will have an influence on the acquisition process/favored candidates.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby ArjunPandit » 18 May 2020 23:22

aah that sounds like a dampener ..i had high hopes from RKSB....the more things change the more they remain same

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Avinandan » 19 May 2020 02:22

dinesha wrote:X-post
IAF to acquire 450 fighter aircraft in future, says Air Force Chief RKS Bhadauria
https://www.timesnownews.com/india/arti ... ria/593673
.
.....
On plans to acquire 114 multirole fighter aircraft, he said, "this project is in the middle-weight and is in the Rafale class, in this issue, we will deal with it in the Make in India region, with an increase in FDI, with support to the private sector. I think in future this will bring in technology which is required to support the aviation sector. I think it is important to have another generation of aircraft in terms of capability, technology as we go along."

:(( :((
Does this mean somebody misquoted General Rawat and all of us were doing Lungi dance for nothing !!

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby sankum » 19 May 2020 02:25

IAF is still batting for 114 made in India Rafales.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Kartik » 19 May 2020 02:34

I had said this earlier too. Don't take too much meaning out of some statement made in a press conference. Wait for the MoD or GoI to make an official announcement on the MRCA. The likeliest scenario still remains that the contest will drag on but with no money to spend, it'll eventually peter out.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Raman » 19 May 2020 02:37

indranil - that's a fantastic article - well done!

One minor typo: HUMS stands for "Health and Usage Monitoring System" rather than "Health Up Monitoring System"

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 19 May 2020 02:48

Avinandan wrote: :(( :((
Does this mean somebody misquoted General Rawat and all of us were doing Lungi dance for nothing !!

The Chief is doing what he is supposed to do. He is fighting for his service. A few months back, the Navy Chief said a third carrier is definitely coming and so are the 57 carrier borne fighters. What the Chiefs say have to be met with reality (budget) and when no funds are available, then local alternatives will be sought or a reduced number will be acquired. Either way, the Tejas wins. The MoD will drag this out and will then let it die a natural death. The current chief will max have a three year term (2019-2022). At his inaugural press conference in 2022, the new Air Chief will say the same thing - MRCA is still on the cards.

The World Bank supposedly is giving a $1 billion loan to India for COVID. No matter how you slice it, on what basis is the Govt going to justify a $20 billion purchase for MMRCA? Then $15 billion for 57 carrier borne fighters. Another who-knows-how-many-billions for a 65,000 ton, nuclear powered, EMALS equipped, aircraft carrier to influence events from Alaska to the South China Sea? :lol:

Do you remember when the IAF said there is no Plan B to 126 MMRCAs? Well, the IAF has gone well past Plan B!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Mort Walker » 19 May 2020 03:14

Rakesh wrote:
Avinandan wrote: :(( :((
Does this mean somebody misquoted General Rawat and all of us were doing Lungi dance for nothing !!

The Chief is doing what he is supposed to do. He is fighting for his service. A few months back, the Navy Chief said a third carrier is definitely coming and so are the 57 carrier borne fighters. What the Chiefs say have to be met with reality (budget) and when no funds are available, then local alternatives will be sought or a reduced number will be acquired. Either way, the Tejas wins. The MoD will drag this out and will then let it die a natural death. The current chief will max have a three year term (2019-2022). At his inaugural press conference in 2022, the new Air Chief will say the same thing - MRCA is still on the cards.

The World Bank supposedly is giving a $1 billion loan to India for COVID. No matter how you slice it, on what basis is the Govt going to justify a $20 billion purchase for MMRCA? Then $15 billion for 57 carrier borne fighters. Another who-knows-how-many-billions for a 65,000 ton, nuclear powered, EMALS equipped, aircraft carrier to influence events from Alaska to the South China Sea? :lol:

Do you remember when the IAF said there is no Plan B to 126 MMRCAs? Well, the IAF has gone well past Plan B!

MRCA = Tejas = COVID-19 Financial Stimulus. GoI should have placed a purchase order of 166 LCA Tejas Mk1A as part of its overall Rs. 21 trillion stimulus.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 19 May 2020 03:18

More Tejas Mk1As will definitely come. The Mk1A will speak for itself, so I will hold my peace. And 166 birds is any day better than 83 of them. Just from a simple economies of scale perspective, it makes sense. But our Babus are like this onlee.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Bharadwaj » 19 May 2020 08:06

IAF presses ‘reset’ button on modernisation plans to push ‘Make in India’
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 816529.cms
19 May 2020

TOI not allowing quotes but the chief is clearly stating funding priority is 83 Tejas when asked about MRCA. I think MRCA is very much on life support.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 19 May 2020 08:39

Great find Bharadwaj. I have taken the liberty of reproducing some quotes from the the above interview of Air Chief Marshal Bhaduria. The theme is money. No Money = No 114 MRCA. No Money also means goodbye to factory, job creation, aviation park, exporting, etc.

Q: The government has capped expenditure due to the Covid-19 pandemic, while the defence budget is also likely to be slashed. How is IAF tackling the situation?

A: The capping of government expenditure will affect us. But we are looking at ways to mitigate the impact by prioritising our critical requirements. We are putting measures in place to curtail our revenue budget by about 20-25%. On capital expenditure, we are looking at reorganising our plans based on actual budget availability.

Q: Is the proposed strategic partnership (SP) project to produce 114 fighters with foreign collaboration in India for around $20 billion on hold now?

A: Our current focus is on funding 83 Tejas jets. The SP project for 114 multi-role fighter aircraft (MRFA) is an important component of the ‘Make in India’ programme, with significant spin-offs towards establishing a robust aviation ecosystem. MRFA is to be seen under a separate category in terms of performance and technology. The associated transfer and absorption of technology as well as manufacturing in India will energise the indigenous industry. The project is under examination and details will be provided after finalisation and MoD approval.

Q: By when does IAF hope to reach its target of having 42/43 fighter squadrons instead of the just about 30 now?

A: IAF plans to increase its squadron strength in a pragmatic manner making full use of the ‘Make in India’ initiative. The squadron strength will improve based on availability of funding and ability of ‘Make in India’ to deliver.


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