MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 31 Jul 2018 00:03

^^Why have you quoted your own post made immediately above?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 01 Aug 2018 01:50

nachiket wrote:^^Why have you quoted your own post made immediately above?

I have removed it nachiket Saar.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 01 Aug 2018 01:52

Why Stealth Is Boeing’s Big Buzzword In India’s Looming Fighter Race
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2018/07 ... ntest.html

Read the whole thing.

Will · Post by **Will** » 03 Aug 2018 16:15

nachiket wrote:^^Why have you quoted your own post made immediately above?

Was a mistake. Thought I had deleted it. Anyway thanks Rakesh.

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 03 Aug 2018 18:29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_4000

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYueaFelZ9U

I have seen this machine fly and other than a Vigen or an F15 nothing (30+ years and counting) shaked the field around like this did. Without any doubt one of the most impressive machines I have ever seen. I do wish that it could be used as a template, or is it too heavy?

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 03 Aug 2018 22:02

Lisa wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_4000

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYueaFelZ9U

I have seen this machine fly and other than a Vigen or an F15 nothing (30+ years and counting) shaked the field around like this did. Without any doubt one of the most impressive machines I have ever seen. I do wish that it could be used as a template, or is it too heavy?

A template for what?

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 03 Aug 2018 23:05

I have been close to Su-30, F-15 and F-22 taking off at full AB. Nothing shook my ribcage like the Su-30. I don't think Mirage 4000 stands a chance against these biggies.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Aug 2018 01:23

I have seen Rambha in person. She really embodies the term Rambha - beautiful to watch in flight.

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 04 Aug 2018 01:38

Indranil wrote:I have been close to Su-30, F-15 and F-22 taking off at full AB. Nothing shook my ribcage like the Su-30. I don't think Mirage 4000 stands a chance against these biggies.

Ji, If only you had seen it fly. For those of you that have seen and heard a Mirage 2000, imagine, 2 of those engines tearing away simultaneously. The ground and your chest cavity actually vibrated. Once in a lifetime event.

With regards to a template, I have always equated LCA with a Mirage 2000 and have always wanted to see a two engined version, just like the Mirage 4000. If wishes were horses .................

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 04 Aug 2018 03:36

Certainly, I have not seen a Mirage 4000 in flight, so won't argue. But the Su-30/F-15 have 30% more power and F-22 have 60% more installed power than the Mirage 4000s.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 04 Aug 2018 03:36

Lisa wrote:
Indranil wrote:I have been close to Su-30, F-15 and F-22 taking off at full AB. Nothing shook my ribcage like the Su-30. I don't think Mirage 4000 stands a chance against these biggies.
Ji, If only you had seen it fly. For those of you that have seen and heard a Mirage 2000, imagine, 2 of those engines tearing away simultaneously. The ground and your chest cavity actually vibrated. Once in a lifetime event.

Each MKI engine produces about 30% more thrust than the M53-P2's on the Mirages. The roar is awe-inspiring on takeoff.

With regards to a template, I have always equated LCA with a Mirage 2000 and have always wanted to see a two engined version, just like the Mirage 4000. If wishes were horses .................

Not the thread for this. Anyway, starting on a new twin-engine project in this day and age does not make any sense without LO and other 5th gen features.....which is exactly what the AMCA is. The proposed engines are more powerful than the M53's as well. So you'll have your wish.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 21 Aug 2018 23:38

A very good interview from Air Marshal R K Sharma (Retd), former Vice Chief of the Air Staff.

Lots of good nuggets. Do read. Make special note of what the Air Marshal says about the trials.

Critical to have new aircraft, otherwise our combat unit strength will continue to go down
https://www.deccanherald.com/exclusives ... l-new.html

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 21 Aug 2018 23:39

MMRCA 2.0: Why defence procurement decision-making is problematic
https://www.financialexpress.com/defenc ... c/1286824/

Military acquisitions often go beyond political regimes. The procurement process for the new 110 MMRCA can only be adjusted after the next regime comes to power.

Just to give context - the author is referring to who wins the 2024 Elections and not the 2019 Elections

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 21 Aug 2018 23:54

F-16 Exports Could Begin Within Five Years Of Establishing A Production Line In India: Vivek Lall
http://www.businessworld.in/article/F-1 ... 18-158256/

We are at least five years from signing a contract. So let us say by 2024 a contract is signed. By the above measure, a production line in India will begin in 2029 at the earliest. We will be manufacturing F-16s from 2029/30 to export to the rest of the world. Who wants this fighter in 2030?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 22 Aug 2018 02:09

https://twitter.com/Boeing_In/status/10 ... 8485565440 ---> A fighter simply going after a target with speed won't bring anything to the fight. Footprint and radar signature matter for emerging threats. Boeing's Pratyush Kumar and Dan Gilian discuss the F/A-18 Super Hornet's superior capabilities.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Aug 2018 03:12

Rakesh, This thread is becoming a marketing brochure for the foreign vendors.
Wont call them suppliers.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Aug 2018 03:17

Rakesh wrote:A very good interview from Air Marshal R K Sharma (Retd), former Vice Chief of the Air Staff.

Lots of good nuggets. Do read. Make special note of what the Air Marshal says about the trials.

Critical to have new aircraft, otherwise our combat unit strength will continue to go down
https://www.deccanherald.com/exclusives ... l-new.html

Very interesting comment by the former Vice Chief.

If weapons were not evaluated what were they evaluating aerobatics in two places?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 22 Aug 2018 04:23

ramana wrote:Very interesting comment by the former Vice Chief.

If weapons were not evaluated what were they evaluating aerobatics in two places?

The Air Marshal mentions two airbases in the article - Jaisalmer (270 meters above sea level) and Leh (3,256 meters above sea level).

I am sure they were evaluating how the six aircraft operated at two extremes - one in a hot & dry, relative MASL (metres above sea level) air base and the other at a cold & frigid, but significantly higher MASL air base. A number of the aircraft evaluated had issues at an airbase like Leh. Now with the Gripen E and the F-18 Super Hornet (both sharing a similar and updated engine --- GE F414), it will be interesting to see how they perform. As a side note, the PLAAF have it far worse at their airbases in Tibet and thus the reason for ACM Dhanoa speaking confidently about the IAF more than holding its own against the PLAAF. I do not expect much from the Tyhoon or the MiG-35 and one can eliminate them from the competition already. Neither bird has any concrete developmental future.

Same with the F-16, Block 70. They can jazz the F-16 all they want, the IAF will not bite. So regardless of the uprated engine on the F-16 or whatever else they do to the F-16, I do not expect any traction from the IAF on this bird either. And while Lockheed Martin is the undisputed King in exporting F-16s to other nations, please do not forget who the main customer of these 110 birds are for. So I find Vivek Lall's statements - while laudable - will fall on deaf ears in the IAF. Just like I mentioned in the SEF contest - LM is repeating the same mistake again. Exporting F-16s - as a marketing tool - matters little to the IAF.

And then there is the Rafale. Hasimara AFS is 274 MASL. Ambala AFS is 104 MASL. And both airbases are being earmarked for the Rafale and infrastructure is being built up at both airbases that can house two squadrons each of the Rafale. Again as a side note, the choice of main airbases for the Rafale are interesting.

IMVHO, the competition will be between the Rafale, F-18 Block III and Gripen E. Where the Rafale will shine and have a tremendous advantage - during the evaluations - is the IAF will already be operating the type. And what the IAF will definitely do is see how the Super Hornet and Gripen E stack up against the Rafale F3R. Now there will indeed be some areas where the two competitors will shine over the Rafale - turnaround time for the Gripen E being one - but the end reality is this;

1) Can the GOI afford 110 Gripen Es or F-18 Block IIIs, even if the two outperform the Rafale in some areas? One can argue, that is highly subjective to the pilot who is evaluating the bird and to others at Air HQ. But is that worth the investment in a new bird? What can the F-18 or the Gripen E do significantly better than the Rafale, to justify the investment?

2) While the Armed Forces are apolitical, they are not idiots. They know the writing on the wall, when they see it. And the reality is this. The GOI cannot afford 110 birds. A truncated number definitely, but not 110. There is no money, no matter which way you cut it. Still the question remains - even at a truncated number - is it worth the investment for a whole new bird and all the infrastructure and weaponry that comes with it?

3) Thus the IAF realizes its best bet lies in acquiring what is in currently in the inventory. No bird will start evaluation prior to Sept 2019 anyway, when the first set of Rafales will be operational. Even prior to that, aircrew will be sent to France for Rafale conversion training. Pilots will be raving about the plane (and justifiably so) and that will definitely be heard - LOUD & CLEAR - at Air HQ. And if Dassault offers the F4R roadmap - even if on paper - it will be an even more attractive proposition.

4) If the Gripen E is chosen, my guess will be is the IAF feels that Tejas Mk2 is still very much a risky proposition to rely upon and the Gripen E could serve as a good model for the Mk2 to emulate. And if the IAF takes over HAL and ADA - as reported in the media - then anything is possible. But still I find it hard to see how the Gripen E can outperform the Rafale in any significant manner.

5) The F-18 is an unknown variable, politically. News of Trump cancelling the F-35 purchase to Turkey is already well known in India, both in political circles and in military circles. And yes, I am aware India is not Turkey. But the likelihood of that happening to India is possible. This despite the fact - on BRF - we were reminded that America is a reliable friend, talking about sanctions on India shows how narrow minded BRF is, different time period and this is NOT the India of 1990s, etc, etc, etc. Even if we sign COMCASA next month - which I suspect will be a watered down, neutered, platform-specific agreement - it will not change much. The arm twisting of the S-400 purchase also has not gone down too well at South Block & North Block and adds credence to the Turkey F-35 saga.

Despite all this, if the F-18 does get selected it will likely be because the Rafale did not meet IAF expectations. But that is a scenario that is highly unlikely. Dassault is NOT Mikoyan and the Rafale is NOT the MiG-29K

And the IAF experience with Dassault's Mirage 2000 has been exceptional. Yes French birds are expensive and their weaponry is boutique, but they do the job bloody well. Just ask the M2K pilots who flew in Kargil.

6) Of all the three birds - Rafale, Gripen E and F-18 Block III - which is the least riskiest politically and least hit on the exchequer (at a reduced number)? It is the Rafale onlee. The BJP knows it, the IAF knows it and even the Congress knows it. And there is no money for 110 Rafales either - a fact known to all three. I see two more Rafales squadrons (for four squadrons in total) and if the GOI is in a generous mood for a third base which can house one Rafale squadron in reserve, so five squadrons of Katrina in all.

Any new acquisiton of fighter aircraft for the IAF - in triple digits - is the Tejas Mk1A/Mk2. That is the reality and that is a good reality. 123 Tejas Mk1 / MK1As ordered. Triple digits and that is the reality. 201 Tejas Mk2s are expected to be inducted in the IAF, as per Defence Minister Sitharaman. Again triple digits. I say again, Tejas in triple digits is the only reality. Rest are silver bullets.

Moral of the Story - More Rafales will likely come. But it will take MMRCA 3.0 (or 2.0) for that to happen.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 22 Aug 2018 05:13

Coffee spill alert: Make in India jet deal, MiG to partner with HAL, says will be most cost effective

The Russian aviation giant, which has been the largest supplier of fighter jets to India in the past, is offering its MiG 35 jet for an upcoming contest for 110 combat aircraft. While the fighter jet did not qualify in technical trials in a past contest for a medium combat jet by the Indian air force, its manufacturers say that they are offering a `completely new aircraft’ with an upgraded radar and `50 percent more combat potential’. (Failed aircraft trying to gain an entry through the back door)

The head of the MIG aircraft company said that the MiG 35 will be at least 20 percent cheaper than the competitors according to its internal assessments (Pulling figures from their Musharraf and we have got to believe it as it is according to their "internal assessments") . “The MiG 35 we are offering this time has 50 percent more combat potential. The radar has more expanded capabilities, we can trace 30 target simultaneously and hit 10 of them together. We are at least 20 percent less expensive than our competitors,” Director General of MiG Ilya Tarasenko said.

What do the Russians have to lose? They will paddle the same crap. Now that they have a new

aircraft, Natasha will try to entice....

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Sep 2018 07:45

I'm not happy at all to reopen this deal again when 200 odd LCA mk2 and AMCA can be put on fast track.

yet again rajat Pandit crapping like crazy on toilet. Or how come these guys get such news? Especially when the current gov hates DDM.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 03 Sep 2018 08:08

Read my post in the Raffy td.AoN to be issued shortly by NS and Sukhoi throwing their hat too into the ring offering the SU-35! Russkies spreading their bets like the Yanquis what? This contest with so many contestants is going to resemble a WWE " Royal Rumble"!

-----------------------------------

Latest TOI report:
NS to shortly approve "AoN", acceptance of neccesity of 100+ fighters for the IAF as 2 MIG-21 and 27 sqds will retire next year and all remaining MIG-21s by 2024.LCA delays main reason. Once selected, the first aircraft from the OEM will come in 3 years time and local prod. started.The interesting news is that Sukhoi have also thrown their hat into the ring offering the single- seat SU-35! The Russians are spreading their bets offering both the MIG-35 and SU-35
just as the Yanquis with both the F-16 and F-18.

This will end up in another fiasco as the earlier req. for an SE light fighter was dumped in favour of this virtual MMRCA-2 contest.How can you compare an SU-35 with a Gripen for example? Open sources say that an SU-35 costs between $45- 65M ( operating costs between $40K to 60K/ hr. depending upon the user force).China is paying $85M for a package incl. trg., etc.
An EF by comparison costs $165M! A Rafale may be a little cheaper for the second tranche ( no need for duplicating trg., infra costs , the first 36 costing us upwards of $8+ B.That's over $200M a pop for ghe package.

My personal take is that the GOI/ MOD should order the extra 40+ MKIs to SS std., another batch of Rafales after some real hard bargaining, and any extra worthwhile second- hand M2Ks and MIG-29s to bolster the numbers of those birds in the inventory.
If a few new sqds. of Jags for CS/ GA to replace the MIG-27 sqds. being retd., this whole ritual of a new fighter can be avoided saving huge amounts of time and money.The IAF need to get realistic and support LCA development and production with the same enthusiasm that they're showing for wanting a new firang toy!
This will save a lot of moolah which could be used in the future for any 5th-gen acquisition and AMCA development.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 03 Sep 2018 08:32

Philip, please provide source of article. Now assuming the above article - which you have quoted from - is true (which I highly doubt), the best way to achieve 100+ fighters *QUICKLY* is the following;

1) Two squadrons of Su-30MKI (40 aircraft) as Defence Minister Sitharaman and Air HQ was looking at;
See here ----> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6842&p=2287871#p2287871

2) Two additional squadrons of Tejas Mk1 ~~Mk1A~~ on top of the 83 Mk1A ordered. 40 aircraft.

3) Two additional Rafale squadrons (to be ordered post 2019 elections). 36 - 44 birds. I will be very happy with 44 additional birds (to serve as attrition reserves among the four squadrons), but I can live with 36.

The above is 116 - 124 birds. Or if Rafale is too dicey (till CAG gives the clean chit), then do the following;

1) Two squadrons of Su-30MKI (40 aircraft) as Defence Minister Sitharaman and Air HQ was looking at;
See here ----> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6842&p=2287871#p2287871

2) Three additional squadrons of Tejas Mk1 ~~Mk1A~~ on top of the 83 Mk1A ordered. 60 aircraft.

The above is 100 birds. The end goal is to induct new-build aircraft to quickly replace the retiring MiG-21s and MiG-27s. For that Tejas production also needs to increase from the 2019 goal of 16 aircraft/year, which has yet to be seen. Whether that involves improving production efficiencies on the two existing lines and/or adding a third line, a concrete plan has to be chalked out and worked upon.

Regardless of the production challenges above, inducting a new type is pointless for the following reasons;

- None of the birds in MMRCA 3.0 will arrive in time - due to our archaic procurement - to replace the MiG-21 and MiG-27.
- Extensive negotiations with OEM, which will go nowhere.
- Extensive trials to meet some unobtanium test points.
- Time taken to set up factory to do screwdrivergiri.
- Transfer of Tech (utterly meangingless term).

Hoping they will adopt some combination of the above, of inducting current types versus inducting a whole new type. As I mentioned in my post in this very thread (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7634&p=2289934#p2289934), what bird can do significantly better than the Rafale, to *JUSTIFY* the investment for the new type? Apart from a fifth generation platform, all the other five competitors complement the Rafale and offer nothing revolutionary to the Indian Air Force.

Also, the Tejas Mk1 is better than the MiG-21 and MiG-27 squadrons that will retire next year.

I am not even bringing Mk1A into the picture.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 03 Sep 2018 09:30

TOI report today's paper.There must be v.heavy external pressure from the west, no prizes guessing where from, to buy a western bird...other than the Raffy. The IAF would be happy with new toys, no sweat convincing them there!
The speed with which this is being played out to my mind is not coincidental with a visit from 2 worthies from Trumpland for the "2+2" dialogue meant to armtwist us into buying more US weaponry and dumping Russia and the S-400s.

This could even be a move to scuttle the extra 40+ MKIs which HAL has offered to build, why the sudden entrance of the SU-35, Ru smelling a rat .

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 03 Sep 2018 09:44

^ agree with everything but this...

Rakesh wrote:2) Two additional squadrons of Tejas Mk1A on top of the 83 ordered. 40 aircraft.

If haste is required then two additional squadrons of mk1 for std should be ordered and not mk1a. The latter will take time.

soumik · Post by **soumik** » 03 Sep 2018 10:21

AON for new 114 jet tender to be cleared by center this week.
https://www.timesnownews.com/india/arti ... den/278987

Also there's a new Dog on the block & one with real teeth as well!

The six contenders who sent their bids for the project in early July are F/A-18 and F-16 (US), Gripen-E (Sweden), MiG-35 (Russia), Eurofighter Typhoon and Rafale. Meanwhile, the Russian Sukhoi-35 fighter has also sent its bid to the initial tender or request for information (RFI) published by the Indian Air Force in April for the defense deal.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 03 Sep 2018 15:04

were'nt there `10 steps before actual competition is organized?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 03 Sep 2018 19:47

Cain Marko wrote:^ agree with everything but this...
Rakesh wrote:2) Two additional squadrons of Tejas Mk1A on top of the 83 ordered. 40 aircraft.
If haste is required then two additional squadrons of mk1 for std should be ordered and not mk1a. The latter will take time.

Oops

I meant Mk1 in my posts above. Corrected Now. The Mk1 can be converted into the Mk1A anyway, as per HAL Chief. They should just continue with the Mk1 production onlee. The 83 Mk1As on order, should be built at Mk1s, till the former is ready. Add another 40 - 60 Mk1s on top of the 83 order. When Mk1A achieves FOC, start the conversion from Mk1 to Mk1A.

I am hoping for the two lines to start producing 10 aircraft/year starting from 2020. So a full squadron worth each year. If we add 40 aircraft, on top of the 83 birds now, the production stands at 123 aircraft.

Tejas Mk1/Mk1A production
2019: 16 Birds (as per HAL's own plan)
2020: One Squadron (20 Birds)
2021: One Squadron (20 Birds)
2022: One Squadron (20 Birds)
2023: One Squadron (20 Birds)
--------------------------------------------
The above is 96 birds (which includes the 83 Mk1As on order currently)
--------------------------------------------
2024: One Squadron (24 Birds)
--------------------------------------------
At this point - by 2024 end - Mk1/Mk1A production should end. 120 birds in total, but a total production run of 160 birds (which includes 40 birds of the Mk1 batch being made now) or 8 squadrons of the Mk1/MK1A. That will suffice the "light" portion of the heavy-medium-light fighter categories.
--------------------------------------------

Su-30MKI production
I am unsure of how many Rambhas, HAL is producing each year. But I am sure they can complete an additional 40 aircraft order in 2 - 3 years, if a confirmed order is placed now. So by the end of December 2021, two additional Rambha squadrons can join the IAF.

How many of 110 birds will join the IAF by the end of 2023/2024, knowing our tortoise-moving procurement process? What capability do any of the five birds - not incl the Rafale obviously - bring to the IAF, that will be a game changer?

It makes far better sense to end the MMRCA 3.0 farce for a *NEW* fourth generation platform and rather start a competition for joint development of a fifth generation platform i.e. AMCA which will be the game changer. Spend the money wisely on the above fourth generation platforms - Rafale included - and focus on fifth generation fighter acquistion/development.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 03 Sep 2018 19:48

ArjunPandit wrote:were'nt there `10 steps before actual competition is organized?

yup. Our procurement system is a royal pooch screw up mess

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 03 Sep 2018 23:40

The point was not to point that our system is screw up, the point was what you elaborated in the detailed production schedule, that by the time the competition is organized, MoD may ask IAF that what's the need to import aloo gobhi from hyatt when your (k)hal(a) can make it perfectly fine. Get katrina and get done with it

Eric Thompson · Post by **Eric Thompson** » 03 Sep 2018 23:41

soumik wrote:AON for new 114 jet tender to be cleared by center this week.
https://www.timesnownews.com/india/arti ... den/278987

Also there's a new Dog on the block & one with real teeth as well!

The six contenders who sent their bids for the project in early July are F/A-18 and F-16 (US), Gripen-E (Sweden), MiG-35 (Russia), Eurofighter Typhoon and Rafale. Meanwhile, the Russian Sukhoi-35 fighter has also sent its bid to the initial tender or request for information (RFI) published by the Indian Air Force in April for the defense deal.

The offer of SU-35 is a clever maneuvering by Russia.

Russia clearly knows the neither MIG-35 nor SU-35 would be picked and the deal would go to the US fighter. Once this happens Russia would use this rejection of Russian offer by India as an excuse to sell SU-35s to Pakistan.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 03 Sep 2018 23:45

^^Is that you phillip??
Jokes aside, How do you think will pakis pay for it, they are up for IMF bailout..not sure if Russia is interested in access to Gwadar through OBOR/CPEC

Eric Thompson · Post by **Eric Thompson** » 04 Sep 2018 00:58

ArjunPandit wrote:^^Is that you phillip??
Jokes aside, How do you think will pakis pay for it, they are up for IMF bailout..not sure if Russia is interested in access to Gwadar through OBOR/CPEC

China would act as the midwife to finance the Russo-Pak SU-35 deal. Pakistan's SU-35 could act as a collateral and be based at Jiwani, the Chinese naval base in Pakistan. Pak SU-35s would handle Chinese interests in the Arabian sea while freeing up Chinese SU-35s to focus on SCS & East China sea.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Sep 2018 01:41

Eric Thompson: You have done nothing but post your theories - with zero evidence to back them up. This is classic trolling. I have banned you, because you are wasting bandwith and people's time. Have a nice day!

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Sep 2018 01:47

Rakesh wrote:3) Thus the IAF realizes its best bet lies in acquiring what is in currently in the inventory. No bird will start evaluation prior to Sept 2019 anyway, when the first set of Rafales will be operational. Even prior to that, aircrew will be sent to France for Rafale conversion training. Pilots will be raving about the plane (and justifiably so) and that will definitely be heard - LOUD & CLEAR - at Air HQ. And if Dassault offers the F4R roadmap - even if on paper - it will be an even more attractive proposition.

Happening quicker than I imagined....

Away From Politics, Air Force Pilots Train On Rafales In Gwalior
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/away-fr ... or-1910360

Air Force pilots will get an opportunity to fly the French fighters, which are transiting through India. India will receive the first of its own Rafale fighters in the middle of next year.

Indian Air Force personnel look at a Rafale jet inside a hangar during Pitch Black exercise in Australia

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 04 Sep 2018 07:06

Philip wrote:TOI report today's paper.There must be v.heavy external pressure from the west,

#YouToo succumbed to him.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 04 Sep 2018 07:57

The Frenchies are worried stiff about getting shafted with the new AoN and the Rafale political controversy and are pulling out all stops to showcase their filly on Indian soil.If one remembers aeons ago ,I said that like the SU-30 deal, the French should've offered a sqd. of their std. Rafales immediately upon signing the deal to be replaced later on with the India-specific version.Our first old SU-30s have been replaced by MKIs and picked up by smaller nations.

This way the IAF would've had a few years of service of Rafales and its performance in the air would've shot down the new AoN , the SEF and other firang gambits a long time ago.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 04 Sep 2018 15:18

I doubt it ... that it represents a syllabus oriented training programme
I think it represents a deep familiarisation exercise at most as the Pitch Black crew make their way back to the western hemisphere.
Either way, highly symbolic.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Sep 2018 16:59

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/103 ... 78784?s=21 —> BIG: @LockheedMartin announces all future F-16 wings will be built in India by @TataCompanies Advanced Systems Ltd.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Sep 2018 19:35

Lockheed Martin to build F-16 fighter jet wings in India
http://www.wionews.com/business-&-econo ... dia-163569

The wings of Lockheed Martin's F-16 fighter jets will be produced in India, the American security and aerospace giant announced on Tuesday, in a major boost to the 'Make in India' initiative. Maryland-based Lockheed Martin has entered into an agreement with Tata Advanced Systems Limited (TASL) for the production of the wings. Lockheed officials insisted that the planned F-16 wing production to India is not contingent on India selecting the F-16 for the Indian Air Force. Lockheed has offered to move its entire F-16 manufacturing base to India. India is yet to make a decision on it. Producing F-16 wings in India will strengthen Lockheed Martin's strategic partnership with Tata Advanced Systems Limited and support the 'Make in India' initiative of the government, officials of the company said.

"Building F-16 wings in India is a natural next step that builds on our successful partnerships with Tata on the C-130J [Super Hercules airlifter] and S-92 [helicopter]," said Vivek Lall, Vice President of Strategy and Business Development for Lockheed Martin Aeronautics. "This is a strategic business decision that reflects the value of our partnerships with India and the confidence we have in Tata to perform advanced defence manufacturing work and deliver world-class products," Lall said.

Lockheed Martin's broader proposed F-16 partnership with India to produce F-16s exclusively in India for its Air Force and export customers, stands firm, the company said. Lockheed recently submitted a comprehensive, fully compliant 600-plus page Request for Information (RFI) response to the Indian Air Force. Last year, Lockheed Martin and TASL announced their intent to join hands to produce the F-16 Block 70 in India if the aircraft is selected by the Indian Air Force. The F-16 Block 70 features advanced avionics, a proven Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar, a modernised cockpit, advanced weapons, conformal fuel tanks, an automatic ground collision avoidance system, an advanced engine and an industry-leading extended structural service life of 12,000 hours. To date, 4,604 F-16s have been procured by 28 customers around the world. Approximately 3,000 operational F-16s are flying today with 25 leading air forces, including the US Air Force.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Sep 2018 19:43

ArjunPandit wrote:The point was not to point that our system is screw up, the point was what you elaborated in the detailed production schedule, that by the time the competition is organized, MoD may ask IAF that what's the need to import aloo gobhi from hyatt when your (k)hal(a) can make it perfectly fine. Get katrina and get done with it.

I honestly hope that happens. We would all be on Cloud 9!