MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

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Karan M
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Karan M »

Production standards on these beat even the J-20 hollow.
Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/statu ... PWXfM5GDRQ ---> Madhusudana Rao, Project Director of LCA Mk2, in Eurofighter Typhoon cockpit.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Karan M »

ks_sachin wrote:Admiral I can see the rivets and the nose cone appears dirty.....and the canopy appears weathered with a yellowish tinge.

These Brits cannot even keep their aircraft clean...
Despite that weathering, see the panel finish and how closely they are fitted. Superb build quality. Not one rivet out of place or symmetry or streaking corrosion either. And that golden tinge to the canopy is anti radar treatment.
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Prem Kumar »

Looks like the IAF Chief went on a sortie on Rafale and expressed a wish that we induct a few more squadrons of the bird (IIRC, he said 4-5 squadrons). While those kinds of numbers are economically unrealistic, if he is coming around to the view that the MRFA is a dud & the best option is to order more Rafales + MK2, its a welcome development
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Dilbu »

'Anything but desi' seems to be the motto.
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by VKumar »

I used to write - one squadron of Rafale, every year, till AMCA arrives - looks like someone has understood.
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Rakesh »

Prem Kumar wrote:Looks like the IAF Chief went on a sortie on Rafale and expressed a wish that we induct a few more squadrons of the bird (IIRC, he said 4-5 squadrons). While those kinds of numbers are economically unrealistic, if he is coming around to the view that the MRFA is a dud & the best option is to order more Rafales + MK2, its a welcome development
MRFA is not going anywhere. The Govt is pushing for self reliance and the CAS wants 114 MRFA. That impasse cannot be overcome, as there are no funds available for 114 MRFA. So now comes the negotiation. State that 4 - 5 (but push for 6) squadrons are required for future force levels, but will remove insistence for 114 MRFA.

At 114 MRFA, we are looking at six squadrons (18 aircraft per squadron) + 6 reserve airframes. Now the CAS is okay with 4 - 5 squadrons, although he and the rest at Air HQ are still pushing for six squadrons. However, anything less than six squadrons will bring the number below 100. That 100 number is very important, as no OEM will transfer an assembly line for anything less than 100 airframes. So how to overcome that impasse of a must-have assembly line?

And this is where the MRCBF contest comes in at 26 aircraft. Four squadrons equals 72 aircraft and five squadrons equals 90 aircraft. Add 72 plus 26 and we get 98 airframes OR 90 plus 26 equals 116 airframes. Either calculation will result in an assembly line. If the GOI believes it has the money for 98 airframes, another 2 airframes is not going to break the bank.

But the more important takeaway is that by reducing the 114 number, you are reducing the annual CAPEX payment for these aircraft. Payment for the MRFA contract will be stretched out by well over a decade and will not be paid upfront. Reduced CAPEX results in more CAPEX for other vital programs i.e. Tejas Mk1A, Tejas Mk2, Super Sukhoi upgrade, leasing in-flight refuelers, AWACS, improving weaponry stockpiles, etc.

If the Rafale M wins the MRCBF contest, more Rafales for IAF are guaranteed. My guess is four squadrons. One additional squadron each at Hasimara and Ambala and two at Gwalior (to replace the Mirage 2000 fleet of 2.5 squadrons). At the bottom of this post will be a picture I am going to put up. When seen, the numbers I am talking about will make sense. It will also spell the end of the MRFA contest. If the F-18SH wins the MRCBF contest, another 2 - 3 squadrons for the Rafale will be acquired. In either scenario, 114 MRFA is not coming.

In this instance, Air HQ would be keenly open to the idea of the Indian Naval Air Arm selecting the Rafale M over the F-18SH. It helps the IAF tremendously in a conflict, just like how the MiG-29K did at Ladakh during Galwan. And unlike the MiG-29K and MiG-29UPG, the Rafale M is identical to the Rafale C/B, barring the arrestor hook and strengthened undercarriage of the former.

Selection of Rafale M also opens the door for a greater number of Rafale C/B squadrons in the IAF. From Air HQ's perspective - based on the numbers above - six squadrons of Rafales is better than four squadrons of Rafales. Please also note the role of the Rafale in the IAF ---> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7848&start=640#p2528555

Selection of Rafale M will also allow the GOI and the IAF to capitalize on the base infrastructure + ISE upgrades in the first Rafale deal. Fleet commonality - especially across multiple services - is worth its weight in gold. One fleet, one maintenance schedule, one OEM to work with, one set of weaponry, etc. Apart from all this, also note that AMCA requires an indigenous turbofan. Safran is one of the contenders for GTRE to partner with. GE just threw its hat into the ring and Rolls Royce also wants in on the action. MRFA is the key for such a JV to take off via offsets from a proposed deal.

Not financially possible for the GOI to afford everything i.e. 114 MRFA + separate investment of JV for indigenous turbofan + 26 MRCBF. If one country can provide all this in one mega (but cost effective) package, then it makes sense. Then there is also the geopolitical angle to look at as well. But weirder things have happened in the past with Indian defence procurement. Too many to list here, so keeping fingers crossed and hoping the GOI makes the right decision.

Right now, all eyes (especially Air HQ's) is on the MRCBF contest. 26 airframes will decide the future of MRFA + the indigenous turbofan. 26 airframes will also decide the future of India's geopolitical path. The Rafale M has to win the technical downselect, but that is easier said than done. The F-18SH is an excellent naval fighter. But the Rafale has a few aces up her sleeve ;)

See the image below. Ambala, Hasimara and Gwalior are perfectly placed :) For the IAF and her limited budget, two squadrons each at three airbases will give them sufficient capability. And Gwalior is home to TACDE - India's TOP GUN school. Read the quote below as well.

Image Source: https://twitter.com/livefist/status/137 ... t317zczBnA

Image

10 Reasons Why The Indian Rafale Is Evolution Itself
https://www.livefistdefence.com/14696/
03 June 2017
While the Ambala and Hasimara bases will be the IAF’s principal Rafale centres (17 Squadron ‘Golden Arrows’ is slated to be the inaugural Rafale unit), the Gwalior Mirage 2000 station will be fully integrated right from the start for operations and cooperative training. The collective training and synthetic learning architecture being installed at Ambala and Hasimara will be linked directly to a similar module in Gwalior, being set up for the IAF’s upgraded Mirage 2000-5 fleet (eight have been upgraded so far out of 51). This will allow pilots at the three bases to fly cooperative simulated missions using both aircraft types on a long list of existing and fresh combat scenarios. These will, of course, include area denial combat air patrol operations on the Chinese front and northern sectors, close air support and interdiction missions in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, precision strike missions along the Line of Control and cooperative reconnaissance missions/anti-surface missions on both of India’s seaboards. The experience of the Gwalior squadrons, coupled with the new tools coming with the Rafale will be a huge mutual boost to both bases, types and fleets.
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Rakesh »

VKumar wrote:I used to write - one squadron of Rafale, every year, till AMCA arrives - looks like someone has understood.
Not this again! :roll:
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by ernest »

Change that to 2 sqn of Tejas Mk2 per year till AMCA arrives. Given that Mk2 is not exactly favored by IAF procurement bureaucracy, AMCA will be inducted the day it is ready.
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Rakesh »

Nothing else will move till the MRFA deal - in whatever form - is concluded.
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by VKumar »

Rakesh ji, "Man having explored all alternatives will finally do the rational."

What other alternative is available today?
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Rakesh »

Saar, AMCA is going to arrive in the early 2040s. No matter what optimistic and rosy timeline HAL provides, it is not coming any sooner than that. That is like 20 years from now, at minimum.

So that having being said, if your plan is to induct one Rafale squadron per year till AMCA arrives....you are looking at 20 squadrons or 360 Rafales. Even if you halve that number to 10 squadrons or 180 Rafales, what is the plan to pay for this?

Purchasing fighter aircraft is not akin to buying roasted peanuts or channa off the roadside.
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Thakur_B »

Karan M wrote:
ks_sachin wrote:Admiral I can see the rivets and the nose cone appears dirty.....and the canopy appears weathered with a yellowish tinge.

These Brits cannot even keep their aircraft clean...
Despite that weathering, see the panel finish and how closely they are fitted. Superb build quality. Not one rivet out of place or symmetry or streaking corrosion either. And that golden tinge to the canopy is anti radar treatment.
There was a documentary on EF production in which they show that the UK assembly line was built on Bog land which is affected by lunar cycles. To preserve the micron level finish the jigs move around on a cushion of air like hovercraft.
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Rakesh »

Thakur_B wrote:There was a documentary on EF production in which they show that the UK assembly line was built on Bog land which is affected by lunar cycles. To preserve the micron level finish the jigs move around on a cushion of air like hovercraft.
I have seen that documentary. It was a nice one!
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Rakesh »

:rotfl:

https://twitter.com/Tej_Intel/status/15 ... MpGleBQEDw ---> IAF will issue an RFP for MRFA by mid-2023. Speculated in 2024 but this seems to be a year early.
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/_devildog_rv_/statu ... MpGleBQEDw ---> Boeing F-15EX "Silent Eagle", the only aircraft that can challenge the Dassault Rafale in MRFA.

Image
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by KSingh »

Rakesh wrote:
Prem Kumar wrote:Looks like the IAF Chief went on a sortie on Rafale and expressed a wish that we induct a few more squadrons of the bird (IIRC, he said 4-5 squadrons). While those kinds of numbers are economically unrealistic, if he is coming around to the view that the MRFA is a dud & the best option is to order more Rafales + MK2, its a welcome development
MRFA is not going anywhere. The Govt is pushing for self reliance and the CAS wants 114 MRFA. That impasse cannot be overcome, as there are no funds available for 114 MRFA. So now comes the negotiation. State that 4 - 5 (but push for 6) squadrons are required for future force levels, but will remove insistence for 114 MRFA....
What an absolute laughing stock India is.

The 2015/16 Rafale had the provision for additional squadrons at the 2015 prices+ infrastructure created at the 2 Rafale bases for an additional squadron each.

If that had been exercised when the first Rafales landed in India the first jets from tranche 2 would be landing in india within the next 12-18 months. Instead the situation is such that the IAF have insisted on 114 or nothing and hence aren’t going to be getting a SINGLE jet of this class this decade, maybe from early 2030s if they are lucky if MRFA somehow makes it through the gargantuan political/babu decision making process.

MRCBF, MRFA, P75I, NUH, NMRH, RSH etc etc are all just paper projects. Whilst Indian services are coming up with ever more elaborate ways to send 10s of billions abroad the Chinese (and to an extent the Pakis) are actually singing contracts and churning things out and getting them in the stables.

We all know that in 5 years we will still be here talking about the RFP/ASQRs of the MRFA.

Another sobering fact- now the 36th Rafale has been handed over to the IAF and the SU-30 is out of production at Nasik and the Ukraine situation has pretty much ensured no additional can be ordered (along with that MiG-29 squadron) the only jets the IAF will be getting between now and ~2030 when the LCA MK.2 begins its limited run is the 83 odd LCA MK1A.
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Rakesh »

All eyes are on the Navy's MRCBF contest. Reportedly decision is due next month. MRCBF will be a G2G deal.

If it is Rafale M, then MRFA is over.
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by KSingh »

Rakesh wrote:All eyes are on the Navy's MRCBF contest. Reportedly decision is due next month. MRCBF will be a G2G deal.

If it is Rafale M, then MRFA is over.
IST applies. They earlier this year they’d finalise their report for MRCBF not make a decision. I don’t even expect MRCBF to deliver anything but say Rafale is found the winner how will that effect the MRFA? GoI has had the option of Rafales via GTG route for years and have not chosen to go that way
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Rakesh »

What Air HQ wants is 114 Rafales, but 114 is not coming. The only real competitor to the Rafale is the F-15EX and that is not coming either, due to the prohibitive upfront cost (CAPEX) plus the duplication (OPEX) with the Su-30MKI fleet. If Rafale M does win the MRCBF contest, it gives Dassault leverage in the MRFA contest, but it also gives the GOI much needed political room to conclude a (truncated) MRFA deal. Perhaps another two to four more squadrons of the Rafale for the IAF.

Vice Admiral SN Ghormade, Vice Chief of Naval Staff stated that the MRCBF is just an *INTERIM* measure. If Rafale M does win, remember that line. A stand alone fleet of 26 F-18SHs are going to be prohibitively expensive for the Navy to purchase and maintain. And there are plans to eventually increase that number by another 31 additional airframes, depending on how the TEDBF progresses.

P.S. And no F-35 is coming either, unless Lockheed Martin figures out a way to circumvent the S-400 in Indian service. India will also have to provide significant political concessions to Unkil in lieu of such a deal. I doubt that will be palatable to the Govt or even the opposition.
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by KSingh »

Rakesh wrote:What Air HQ wants is 114 Rafales, but 114 is not coming. The only real competitor to the Rafale is the F-15EX and that is not coming either, due to the prohibitive upfront cost (CAPEX) plus the duplication (OPEX) with the Su-30MKI fleet. If Rafale M does win the MRCBF contest, it gives Dassault leverage in the MRFA contest, but it also gives the GOI much needed political room to conclude a (truncated) MRFA deal. Perhaps another two to four more squadrons of the Rafale for the IAF.

Vice Admiral SN Ghormade, Vice Chief of Naval Staff stated that the MRCBF is just an *INTERIM* measure. If Rafale M does win, remember that line. A stand alone fleet of 26 F-18SHs are going to be prohibitively expensive for the Navy to purchase and maintain. And there are plans to eventually increase that number by another 31 additional airframes, depending on how the TEDBF progresses.
Logically it’s all true but logically the IAF should’ve bought 2-3 more Squadrons of Rafales by now

The tail is wagging the dog that’s clear. You, I and anyone with any sense can see 114 aren’t coming but the IAF haven’t waivered from this demand for 20+ years and the GoI has apparently not slapped some sense into them either hence this contest being held into perpetuity.


My cynical mind says that’s by design- plenty of ‘marketing’ bucks of major OEMs continue to flood Delhi I hear. SAAB maintains a huge office in the NCR despite seemingly having little to offer in the aerospace field since MMRCA didn’t go their way.

Why was the Rafale deal so hated? Because GTG deals preclude the use of middlemen?

MRFA, P75I, FRCV etc etc are a ‘consultant’s ‘ dream. They clearly serve little purpose other than to get a select few certain perks. Once these mega procurements with 5/6 contenders cease who will feed them? When was the last time any of these mega deals went past RFP?
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Pratyush »

Rakesh wrote: Snip.....

Vice Admiral SN Ghormade, Vice Chief of Naval Staff stated that the MRCBF is just an *INTERIM* measure. If Rafale M does win, remember that line. A stand alone fleet of 26 F-18SHs are going to be prohibitively expensive for the Navy to purchase and maintain. And there are plans to eventually increase that number by another 31 additional airframes, depending on how the TEDBF progresses.

Snip.....
Since when an interim solution remains an interim solution in the Indian service.

The TEDBF in the absence of engine's is just a pie in the sky.
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by KSingh »

Pratyush wrote:
Rakesh wrote: Snip.....

Vice Admiral SN Ghormade, Vice Chief of Naval Staff stated that the MRCBF is just an *INTERIM* measure. If Rafale M does win, remember that line. A stand alone fleet of 26 F-18SHs are going to be prohibitively expensive for the Navy to purchase and maintain. And there are plans to eventually increase that number by another 31 additional airframes, depending on how the TEDBF progresses.

Snip.....
Since when an interim solution remains an interim solution in the Indian service.

The TEDBF in the absence of engine's is just a pie in the sky.
They’ve long since said they F414 is the TEDBF’s engine choice
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Kartik »

First F-16 Block 70 to be built from raw materials has been rolled out from the LM Greenville facility. Built for the Bahrain AF.

The F-21 on offer to the IAF will broadly be very similar to this with some Indian specific enhancements including probe/drogue refueling and possibly drag chute. 12,000 hours service life for the F-16 Block 70.

Already has more orders than the Gripen E, which itself just got the Military Type certificate so it can begin operational use.

First F-16 Block 70 emerges from LM factory

Image
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Rakesh »

X-post from the International Aerospace Thread. Point to remember when the US offers their wares.

After nearly 250 F-16s in service with the Turkish Air Force and more than triple digit airframes assembled in Turkey, the country still requires permission from the US to assemble even a single one. Who remembers the Single Engine thread on BRF and the snake oil that was being sold to convince India to purchase the F-16 for the Indian Air Force?

Senator Menendez Vows to Veto F-16 Sale to Turkey
https://greekreporter.com/2022/12/08/se ... 16-turkey/
08 Dec 2022
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by nachiket »

Rakesh wrote:X-post from the International Aerospace Thread. Point to remember when the US offers their wares.

After nearly 250 F-16s in service with the Turkish Air Force and more than triple digit airframes assembled in Turkey, the country still requires permission from the US to assemble even a single one. Who remembers the Single Engine thread on BRF and the snake oil that was being sold to convince India to purchase the F-16 for the Indian Air Force?

Senator Menendez Vows to Veto F-16 Sale to Turkey
https://greekreporter.com/2022/12/08/se ... 16-turkey/
08 Dec 2022
Aren't we in the same boat with the MKI? Any new order will require involvement of the Russians. It's not like we can produce any number of MKI clones or modify it into n different types like the Chinese did with their J-1X series.
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by NRao »

A quick note on Sen Menendez threat to veto (since BR, unfortunately, discards data points that are unrelated to anything "India"):

There were two events that he is referring to:

* After the blast in Istanbul, the US gov sent an official note of condolences, which the Turks promptly **returned**, with their own note that essentially said no thanks, we know who did it (and they will pay for it)


* Then Turkey sent a note to the US that essentially stated that the Kurds need to withdraw 25/35 kms or Turkish troops will invade and occupy certain regions
* AND that the US should vacate the region

Assad and Erdogan were supposed to meet at some point - no idea where that stands.



And, since yesterday, every oil tanker transiting Turkish waters is being inspected by Turkey to ensure that the tankers are complying with G7 oil cap insurance requirements - well, 95% of oil tankers are non-Russians and are thus causing unnecessary problems for the EU.

All that in addition to the S-400, BRICS, SCO, delaying Finland/Sweden's entry into NATO, threatened to invade Greece ........

The dynamics are very different.
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Rakesh »

nachiket wrote:Aren't we in the same boat with the MKI? Any new order will require involvement of the Russians. It's not like we can produce any number of MKI clones or modify it into n different types like the Chinese did with their J-1X series.
Indeed. We do require permission from Russia. But how many Russian parliamentarians will oppose such a sale?

The Russians will charge an arm & a leg (as they reportedly did for the 12 Su-30MKIs that HAL wanted to make), but you will not see any political opposition to a sale. If we are willing to pay the exorbitant cost, the Russians will gleefully sell.

Is that the case with the US? What the Executive Branch wants to do, the US Congress will oppose. What a broken system the US has. On what basis should India trust this? Stay away from an American-origin fighter, just as the Comptroller & Auditor General report on the MMRCA recorded the IAF stating so.

And like Turkey, we too have the S-400. Still waiting for that CAATSA waiver! How long does it take to get one?
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Rakesh »

The writing is on the wall and Saab can see it very clearly. No ambiguity.

Saab will not partner The Adani Group in jointly building Gripen E fighters in India
https://www.ajaishukla.com/2023/01/saab ... up-in.html
17 Jan 2023
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Rakesh »

1) Tata producing F-16s in India was going to roll other sectors of the Indian economy.

2) It is all about parts. India will be the sole F-16 supplier to the world.
Shhh...parts for Pakistani F-16s will still be supplied by Amreeka onlee.

3) For every job created at TASL (Tata Aerospace Ltd) producing the F-16, four other jobs will be created elsewhere in the country.

4) Selection of F-16 is down payment for engine technology from General Electric.

5) Selecting Gripen E over F-16 in the Single Engine contest will result in America pulling out from India. So no more annual Malabar exercises and not to expect any help from Amreeka when China attacks.

6) 200 F-16s and 100 F-18s are going to join the Indian Air Force, apart from a separate order of F-18s for the Indian Navy.

7) Selection of F-16 is much more than the plane itself. It is about a strategic relationship/partnership with the world's greatest MIC - the United States of Amreeka.

8] In a future conflict against the PLAAF, any F-16s shot down in conflict will be replaced by the Yuu Yess of Yaay. Just one of many intrinsic and extrinsic benefits of a wonderful strategic partnership.

The above were gems of wisdom from the Tier 1 industry experts that graced their glorious all-knowing presence on BRF during the Single Engine fighter contest. They were led down the rose path by the Risk Assessor Commanding-in-Chief (RAC-in-C) who claimed his predictions are never wrong. After all, he trained for this during his working career.

Meanwhile ---> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7625&start=2520#p2575964

One can hope the policy makers in India are watching this development.
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Manish_P »

^ :shock: For a moment i thought the Admiral had received some of Afghanistan's finest and he was higher than the kites of Sankranti.. whew
Rakesh wrote:...

The above were gems of wisdom from the Tier 1 industry experts that graced their glorious all-knowing presence on BRF during the Single Engine fighter contest. They were led down the rose path by the Risk Assessor Commanding-in-Chief (RAC-in-C) who claimed his predictions are never wrong. After all, he trained for this during his working career.

Meanwhile ---> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7625&start=2520#p2575964

...
To this the RAC (i don't know who the esteemed poster is) can easily give the counter - "Look at the eyeranians and their still non-neutered Cats. Surely Indians with their jugaad can keep the Falcons flying high long after they have been sanctioned"
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Bharadwaj »

https://www.financialexpress.com/defenc ... p/2953232/

Is the mega military project to acquire 114 fighters for the IAF in jeopardy?
IAF’s mega $20 billion Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA) programme is nowhere in sight. There are multiple projects underway in India’s aerospace ecosystem. In the plethora of such big-ticket indigenous programmes, the MRFA seems to have lost its proposition after more than two decades of trials and tribulations.
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Pratyush »

Post the procurement of Rafale. I have not really understood why this program was even created.

Order additional 2 squadrons of the thing and call it a day.

Push ahead with the Mk2 with full speed. If the program slips, order additional Mk1A.
MeshaVishwas
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by MeshaVishwas »

Fits between Tejas & heavier fighters — Why Lockheed wants India to buy F-21- SNEHESH ALEX PHILIP, The Print (30 Jan, 2023)

Edit: Here is the interview on YouTube :lol:

Last edited by MeshaVishwas on 31 Jan 2023 12:14, edited 1 time in total.
Rakesh
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Rakesh »

Making the same mistake as in the SE contest i.e. upselling to the wrong customer (the Govt), when they should be catering to the real customer (the IAF). After all these years, they still have not learnt their lesson.

Triple missile launcher was there in the SE contest as well, which the Gripen did not have. Why did the IAF not jump at it then? Triple launcher is not a game changer for the IAF.

Political reliability goes a long way and the US has clearly proven, that they are anything but. What is the point of low life cycle cost, when you are politically unreliable? :)

Lockheed Martin bought a F-16 Block 70 cockpit demonstrator to India in the past as well. IAF officers tried it out and were *NOT* impressed.

The F-15EX is the only serious US entrant in the MRFA contest. The other two US entrants (F-21 and F-18SH) have zero takers in the IAF.
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Pratyush »

It seems that a decision has been made by the government of India to close this stupid program and order 36 additional Rafale.
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by KSingh »

Pratyush wrote:It seems that a decision has been made by the government of India to close this stupid program and order 36 additional Rafale.
Source?
Pratyush
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Pratyush »

Some you tube channel.
Rakesh
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Rakesh »

Pratyush wrote:Some you tube channel.
Saar, Rafale fan boy channels are not a valuable source.
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Manish_P »

The latest budget will be an additional dampener.
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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Post by Rakesh »

The Navy might announce the MRCBF winner this month or next. If it is Rafale M, I doubt any deal will be signed with Macron in March. But negotiations will commence with Dassault and a team of the MoD and IN.

Once the 2024 elections are done and dusted with, then out will spring the G2G deal for Rafales for IAF and IN.
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