MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rudradev » 18 May 2018 21:34

About the F-16s.

F-16s (at the time) failed to meet flight-test requirements during the original MMRCA trials. Along with Super Hornets they were eliminated from the running.

Does this F-16 Block 70 address the specific issues that caused the failure and elimination from MMRCA contention 2-3 years ago?

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Kartik » 19 May 2018 01:59

JayS wrote:So blk-70 AESA radar is air-cooled while that on blk-60 is water cooled. Why..? Blk-60 one looks like more powerful one.


The Block 60's AESA is a bit dated by comparison to what's on the F-16V. It was one of the first export radars and probably produced a lot more heat and required a lot more cooling than the newer gen SABR and RACR AESAs.

link

..
“When we incorporated the Block 60 AESA radar, we had to change the ECS [Environmental Control System] system on the airplane. We had to change the electrical system on the airplane. You just don’t put a bigger fan on it; you’ve got a lot of tubing, etc. That was one of the reasons that drove us to a Block 60 — because of the infrastructure,” McHenry says.

In contrast, the Northrop Grumman SABR and competing Raytheon Advanced Combat Radar (RACR) evaluated for the CAPES both fit the existing Block 40-to-52 cooling and power infrastructure. “That’s the magic that the SABR and the RACR brought to the table,” said McHenry. The Northrop Grumman AESA has been selected by the Republic of China to upgrade Block 20 F-16 A/B fighters and the Raytheon set by the Republic of Korea for F-16K modernization.
..

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Kartik » 19 May 2018 02:08

Austin wrote:On paper the F-16 Blk 70 looks very capable and perhaps other contenders would be putting their best to get this deal

But it would boil down to who is willing to give the most technology at the lowest price , The new figher deal is all about maximum TOT with no strings attached , Production


Not just on paper. the F-16V/Block 70 is indeed a very capable and modern fighter and when it enters service with Bahrain, will be the most capable single engine fighter in the world, apart from the F-35 and until the Gripen E enters service. the Block 70 should remain comfortably relevant for many years to come, despite its inherent airframe design being older and based on the F-16 Block 50 designed in the 1990s and early 2000s.

I would not have been comfortable with the idea of the PAF getting 100+ fighters that are this capable.

However, as you said, the deciding factor will be the extent to which the supplier will share technology and not just the technology to build the jet plus allow for Indian driven customizations, which will require handing over a lot of details relating to the design itself. And that is where one has to be extremely careful of what the US has to offer.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Cain Marko » 19 May 2018 02:40

Rudradev wrote:About the F-16s.

F-16s (at the time) failed to meet flight-test requirements during the original MMRCA trials. Along with Super Hornets they were eliminated from the running.

Does this F-16 Block 70 address the specific issues that caused the failure and elimination from MMRCA contention 2-3 years ago?


THe biggest issue with the MRCA F-16 was the lack of power, iirc one of the teens bust a tire during landing ops in the trials. The block 70 it seems resolves this at two levels:
1) Newer airframe that is derived from the lighter blk 50 design (9 tons vs 10 tons on the blk 60)
2) Ge F132 engines, which pump out more 2.5 tons more AB thrust than the blk 50s

Even if the airframe gains weight, say 10 tons at empty, the bird will still have an excellent TWR (> 1.0) when loaded with internal fuel and 6 AAMs, quite comparable to twin engined birds such as the Rafale. I"m not sure however, how this will affect its endurance/range considering that powerful engines can result in less range/endurance.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Philip » 20 May 2018 08:42

Look at the new MK-2.A new designation.MWCA whatever! Year another tongue twisters to relish.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 24 May 2018 07:12

https://twitter.com/Chopsyturvey/status ... 5056267264 --> Air Commodore PV Shivanand VM, Air Attache Embassy of India and pilots from the IAF_MCC Test Pilot School visited Lockheed Martin facility in Fort Worth, Texas, to learn more about the F-16.

Image

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 24 May 2018 07:31

^^^ The IAF knows all about the F-16 via the Singapore Air Force and other air forces that it has operated with. They came here to see the radar and sensors on the Block 70 (which I am assuming what that is in the above picture) along with Vivek Lall who gave the presentation. Lall Saar is fourth from right in the navy blue suit.

Expect more of this at Boeing's facility for the F-18 Advanced Super Hornet and at Saab's facility to see the Gripen E. The Rafale is already known to the IAF.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 24 May 2018 07:43

Khalsa wrote:Where is the Naval 57 aircraft thing at ?
Canned (in secret) ?
Or Cancelled
or consolidated with the Air Force one (in stealth) ?

Honestly where is the Naval 57 aircraft deal at ?
I ask I because I cannot believe that it does not influence the Air Force deal.

Depending on the source Khalsa-ji, still on the move or canned altogether. There is no money for 57 naval fighters, especially when the IAF is facing a squadron shortage. Now with Admiral Lanba pouring cold water on the idea of the Quad, that makes acquiring 57 naval fighters for the mythical white unicorn - called the Vishaal - all the more unlikely.

I am surprised the Admiral made that statement, considering all four nations were bullish on the Quad. I guess India had a different vision of the Quad, unlike poodle nations like Japan and Australia. Bad for the Navy (due to the possible loss of the Vishaal), but good for India. No need for India to be anyone's watch dog.

The Vishaal - as envisioned by the Navy, with a nuclear reactor, EMALS and other bells & whistles - was never going to pass muster in the MoD's financial wing. The babu torpedoed her, before even the keel was laid. With Vishaal "possibly" out of the picture, why do you need 57 naval fighters?

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby chola » 24 May 2018 08:07

Rakesh wrote:
Khalsa wrote:Where is the Naval 57 aircraft thing at ?
Canned (in secret) ?
Or Cancelled
or consolidated with the Air Force one (in stealth) ?

Honestly where is the Naval 57 aircraft deal at ?
I ask I because I cannot believe that it does not influence the Air Force deal.

Depending on the source Khalsa-ji, still on the move or canned altogether. There is no money for 57 naval fighters, especially when the IAF is facing a squadron shortage. Now with Admiral Lanba pouring cold water on the idea of the Quad, that makes acquiring 57 naval fighters for the mythical white unicorn - called the Vishaal - all the more unlikely.

I am surprised the Admiral made that statement, considering all four nations were bullish on the Quad. I guess India had a different vision of the Quad, unlike poodle nations like Japan and Australia. Bad for the Navy (due to the possible loss of the Vishaal), but good for India. No need for India to be anyone's watch dog.

The Vishaal - as envisioned by the Navy, with a nuclear reactor, EMALS and other bells & whistles - was never going to pass muster in the MoD's financial wing. The babu torpedoed her, before even the keel was laid. With Vishaal "possibly" out of the picture, why do you need 57 naval fighters?



Come on, let’s not extrapolate that far out yet based on one comment.

The Vishal does not necessarily mean EMALS and nuclear anyways. The Navy wants a 65K-ton CATOBAR. We had a steam catapult on the original INS Vikrant.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Kartik » 25 May 2018 00:42

Gripen E ready for weapons carriage trials

Saab's Gripen E is set to start its next major period of testing, as the new-generation fighter stays on course for delivery from next year, the Swedish manufacturer says.

"We are preparing for the next phase of flight trials – that is, external stores," says Jonas Hjelm, head of Saab's aeronautics business unit. Since the first prototype's flight debut in June 2017, the programme has remained on track, he says, with recent milestones including achieving supersonic flight.

"We are on track. We will deliver according to the contracts that we have," Hjelm confirms. Saab has current orders from the Swedish and Brazilian air forces for a combined 96 E/F-model fighters, with both expected to receive their first examples before the end of 2019.

Speaking during the company's annual Gripen seminar in Stockholm on 16 May, Hjelm declined to reveal when the programme's remaining two prototypes will join the test fleet, but says "they will fly in the not too far future."

Pointing to Saab's adoption of an app-type software development philosophy with the Gripen E, he notes: "We have solved how you reconfigure an aircraft without jeopardising the flight-critical evidence. This will really impact how we are able to adapt the aircraft to new challenges."

Meanwhile, the annual Gripen User Group event took place earlier this month in Brazil, where the construction of a new Saab/Akaer-backed aerostructures plant is also advancing.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 25 May 2018 02:43

chola wrote:
Rakesh wrote:Depending on the source Khalsa-ji, still on the move or canned altogether. There is no money for 57 naval fighters, especially when the IAF is facing a squadron shortage. Now with Admiral Lanba pouring cold water on the idea of the Quad, that makes acquiring 57 naval fighters for the mythical white unicorn - called the Vishaal - all the more unlikely.

I am surprised the Admiral made that statement, considering all four nations were bullish on the Quad. I guess India had a different vision of the Quad, unlike poodle nations like Japan and Australia. Bad for the Navy (due to the possible loss of the Vishaal), but good for India. No need for India to be anyone's watch dog.

The Vishaal - as envisioned by the Navy, with a nuclear reactor, EMALS and other bells & whistles - was never going to pass muster in the MoD's financial wing. The babu torpedoed her, before even the keel was laid. With Vishaal "possibly" out of the picture, why do you need 57 naval fighters?

Come on, let’s not extrapolate that far out yet based on one comment.

The Vishal does not necessarily mean EMALS and nuclear anyways. The Navy wants a 65K-ton CATOBAR. We had a steam catapult on the original INS Vikrant.

Chola, here are some numbers to put the Vishaal acquisition in perspective...

1) The 57 naval fighters are expected to cost the Indian Navy Rs 95,000 crore (US $14+ billion).

Requests for proposals: Indian Navy looks to buy 57 fighters for Rs 95,000 crore
https://www.financialexpress.com/defenc ... e/1136675/

2) The Vikrant has not yet completed construction. At a planned figure of $0.5 billion (I do not understand how they came up with such a low estimate for a 40,000 ton aircraft carrier), it has ballooned to $3.765 billion and will continue to rise. I expect nothing short of $5 billion, when everything has been completed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INS_Vikrant_(2013)

3) Now how much do you think the Vishaal will cost? Even if you take the nuclear reactor out, the Navy still wants the EMALS and is convinced that EMALS will work on a conventionally powered, aircraft carrier. Among the major costs involved with the US $13.5 billion USS Gerald Ford is in its major components - Advanced Arresting Gear, EMALS, etc.
https://www.mccain.senate.gov/public/_c ... rogram.pdf

Even if you take EMALS out of the picture, along with the nuclear reactor, you are still left with a 65,000 ton, non-EMALS aircraft carrier that is going to cost nothing short of US $7 - US $8 billion (low estimate) to US $10 billion (high estimate). Do you know what was the Navy's share of the 2018-19 Indian defence budget? See below...

The Indian Defence Budget FY 2018-19
http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news ... y-2018-19/

US $14 billion + US $8 billion = US $22 billion. This number is not for you or me. This is for the MoD Babu that the navy has to convince, in lieu of all the other immediate purchases - 110 fighters for the Indian Air Force estimated to be nothing short of $20 billion, tanks and artillery pieces for the Army which costs billions as well, naval choppers (dire need) to replace the aging Sea Kings, Project 75I for six new submarines to replace the aging Kilos and HDW 209 boats, the list goes on. At what scale of importance do you think the Babu is going to place the Vishal at? It is at the bottom of the totem pole.

The Vishaal has everything going against it - time, cost, zero Babu support, other pressing needs (as illustrated above), etc. This was a Star Wars project from day one, with no concrete plan from the MoD on project timelines and cost allocations.

The better option is the following;

Option A: Go for an enlarged Vikrant Class (at 55,000 tons) with wider lifts and a ski jump. Quicker to build and cheaper to acquire. As for the naval platform, the F-35B is IMVHO is the best option from a "platform" perspective. There are political considerations to take into account i.e. COMCASA. But it checks all the boxes, with strategic partnership with Amreeka and state-of-the-art platform for the Navy being the two most important. The F-35B can take off with a full combat load, from a ski jump anyway. F-35Bs stationed on the Royal Navy's Queen Elizabeth Class vessels do just that. And yes the F-35B will not be cheap, but it gives the Navy a platform that no other plane can match.

Option B: Go for an enlarged Izumo Class type vessel ---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izumo-cla ... _destroyer
The Japanese plan to station the F-35B on her in the near future. At 27,000 tons...she is too small for the Indian Navy. But a larger Izumo type vessel would also serve the same purpose as an enlarged Vikrant Class.

My personal choice is Option A. Even if we do not get the F-35B - for political and cost reasons - you can still station the MiG-29K and perhaps even the Naval Tejas (assuming the Navy comes around). But the Navy has to make the MiG-29K work. RSK-MiG is not co-operating, so apparently we are doing desi jugaad on her now. I do not know the specifics of this and someone more knowledgeable on the MiG-29K's issues can possibly advise.

The *ONLY* lesson to learn from this tamasha, is that the Naval Tejas must get the requisite funding from the GOI to meet all the navy's aspirations it needs in a 4th generation naval fighter. Same is true for the IAF as well. Tejas is India's mass produced fighter.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Philip » 25 May 2018 05:03

Spot on xcpt. for the F-35 acquisition.Even if available too expensive.I've always advocated a stretched new Vikrant as you've described with larger lifts .Apart from the aircraft mentioned, the uber expensive Rafale-M is also available but for cost effectiveness, suitably modified and corrected MIG-29K/35s with the latest bells and whistles could be the interim aircraft package answer along with a perfected NLCA.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 26 May 2018 23:38

X-Post from the Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments thread....

Austin wrote:As India Goes Military Shopping in Russia, US Reminds of Moscow Sanctions

"CAATSA is a feature and we need to take it seriously. The (Trump) administration is always bound by US law. This is a US law. I'm hoping that not just India, but all of the partners that we engage with will understand that we will have to evaluate any potential large defence purchase from Russia seriously because that's what the law demands of us," Tina Kaidanow, Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Political-Military Affairs, told reporters during a conference call on Saturday.

"We are going to have to continue to have that conversation with both our Indian counterparts and others about how do we deal with the CAATSA issue. But, I will tell you again, it is US law. We need to take it seriously. Our partners need to take that into consideration as they make their decisions. I can't stress that enough," Kaidanow said.

"The intent is not to sanction our partners. The intent is to emphasise how important it is that Russia's malign behaviour all over the world is countered and by virtue of purchasing large-scale Russian system, what you're doing is enabling that kind of behaviour. That's the intent of the legislation," she said.

India is not going to allow its defence engagement with Russia to be dictated by any other country, the sources said earlier this week, adding New Delhi has been lobbying with the Trump administration on the issue.

Kaidanow sought to clarify that the message was intended not just for India but for all its partners as they contemplate these purchases. She underscored the "positive incentives" to buy American products which are "good" and address relevant security needs besides making their forces interoperable in certain instances.

"Think about what you're doing when you purchase Russian product. It has a distinctly negative byproduct and that is you are creating an environment in which they are better able to do some of the things that we know are problematic," Kaidanow said.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 26 May 2018 23:38

X-Post from the Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments thread....

Austin wrote:New U.S. Sanctions Pose Dilemma for India’s Defense
“India is now between the devil and the deep blue sea. If India opts to do business with Russia, it loses out on spares and services from the U.S. on equipment already purchased such as the Boeing P-8I maritime patrol aircraft and the Lockheed Martin C-130J,” said a senior MoD official. However, with no “force majeure” clause in those contracts, U.S. defense companies will be considered defaulters according to India’s Defense Procurement Procedure, resulting in heavy fines.

“This issue brings us back to the issue of trust that took so long to build between the two nations,” said an Indian MoD official. He noted that India has not yet signed two foundational agreements for defense cooperation with the U.S.: the Communications Compatibility and Security Agreement, previously known as the Communications and Information Security Memorandum of Agreement, and Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement. The two are necessary for India to access communication security equipment on imports from the U.S. and sharing geospatial information, respectively. “India never fully trusted the U.S.,” the official added.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 26 May 2018 23:44

Indian signing foundational agreements with US would broaden defence relationship
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/india ... 71615.html

Ahead of her visit to India next week, Tina Kaidanow, Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Political-Military Affairs, told a group of reporters that it is important for Indian officials to understand these foundation agreements because it allows them to do so much more.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 27 May 2018 00:33

^^^^ https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/999583699468472321 ---> Unlike what some believe, if India signs ridiculous agreements like COMCASA / BECA, far from making China wary of India, it will actually make them sanguine that they could then deal directly with the United States since India would have become a part of global US C3I.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/999672144685547520 ---> C3I - Command, Control, Communications, Intelligence.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Philip » 28 May 2018 11:13

Yeah, " do much more", gaining control over our armed forces.Is this our great ambition, to replace Pak as the subcontinent's Yanqui catamite?

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby JayS » 28 May 2018 11:45

Rakesh wrote:X-Post from the Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments thread....

Austin wrote:New U.S. Sanctions Pose Dilemma for India’s Defense
“India is now between the devil and the deep blue sea. If India opts to do business with Russia, it loses out on spares and services from the U.S. on equipment already purchased such as the Boeing P-8I maritime patrol aircraft and the Lockheed Martin C-130J,” said a senior MoD official. However, with no “force majeure” clause in those contracts, U.S. defense companies will be considered defaulters according to India’s Defense Procurement Procedure, resulting in heavy fines.

“This issue brings us back to the issue of trust that took so long to build between the two nations,” said an Indian MoD official. He noted that India has not yet signed two foundational agreements for defense cooperation with the U.S.: the Communications Compatibility and Security Agreement, previously known as the Communications and Information Security Memorandum of Agreement, and Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement. The two are necessary for India to access communication security equipment on imports from the U.S. and sharing geospatial information, respectively. “India never fully trusted the U.S.,” the official added.


In other news, India and Russia finished price negotiations for S400 and are now looking for ways to circumvent US sanctions on Russia.

US will *HAVE* to leave India out of their own wars with other countries. All our contracts should have clauses to get automatic exemptions from such whimsical sanctions, so we do not have to worry about them every time. We are not a secondary partner to US led "coalition".

Anyhow any guarantee given by USG on paper isn't worth the paper its written on. They can renege with impunity anytime. But we can get moral high ground at least. That's all we can hope for really, while dealing with US. :wink:

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Philip » 28 May 2018 20:37

Moral high ground cost us sev. years delay of the LCA after sanctions were imposed post P-2. Getting into bed with the US results in a v.heavy price to be paid.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby darshhan » 28 May 2018 22:28

Forget Military, GOI should advise even the civil airline companies to go only for Airbus and not boeing. As far as Defence imports are concerned, Avoid American systems like plague. Americans are betrayers and they are never going to change. Also we should try to resell

Indigenisation is the only viable course of action available to us in critical areas such as aircraft engines, radars and missiles(all kinds).

On second thoughts if Americans do place us under sanctions, there is a silver lining. We can and should resume nuclear testing immediately. If you are being convicted of murder you didnt commit, you might as well do it now.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby darshhan » 28 May 2018 22:32

By the way American fanboys on BRF are nowhere to be seen now. Looks like all of them fled with tails tucked between their legs.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 29 May 2018 00:59

darshhan wrote:On second thoughts if Americans do place us under sanctions.....

Darshhan Saar, the irony of CAATSA is that these sanctions are designed to hurt Russia or anyone dealing with Russia because of Russia's interference in the 2016 US Presidential Election. But the head of the US Government - the President of the United States - does *NOT* believe that Russia interfered in the 2016 US Presidential Election. In his own words, the Mueller investigation is nothing more than a witch hunt and that there was no collusion between the Trump Campaign and Russia.

This is India's strategic partner vis-a-viv China. Tauba, Tauba...May Bhagwan help us! :roll:

darshhan wrote:By the way American fanboys on BRF are nowhere to be seen now. Looks like all of them fled with tails tucked between their legs.

There was *LOTS* of rhona-dhona in BRF - from American fan boys - when Mr Stable Genius won the 2016 US elections. America First and Make America Great Again goes against the grain of Indo-US partnership. The main fanboy left. He will only come back if F-16 and F-18 join the IAF :)

Trump winning the US Presidency was the best thing to happen for India.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Will » 29 May 2018 04:29

If you trust Uncle Sam then you don’t have your head screwed on straight. They have always been sanction happy and always will be. It would be daft to buy critical equipment like fighter equipment from the US. The Europeans are much better partners. At least the French have an independent foreign policy. The US will have a holier than though attitude for the foreseeable future.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Khalsa » 29 May 2018 06:45

Rakesh wrote:Trump winning the US Presidency was the best thing to happen for India.


Agreed !!

Unfortunately, tell me how much effort to switch with Scnema engine or anything else but Amreekan engine.
While the Amreekan fan boys have left and the Russian fan boys are doing Bhangra.
Desi Fan Boys like me know that LCA Story is incomplete and the Naval LCA is not even born yet.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 29 May 2018 07:31

Khalsa-ji, the Amreekis are not going to do anything to stop the money flow. There are billions of dollars of deals in the pipeline. Are they really willing to risk it over CAATSA? I doubt it.

By the way, the lobbying has already begun...this one from the CEO of the US-India Strategic Partnership Forum.

Why punishing India on Russia Would Be a Mistake for the United States
https://thediplomat.com/2018/05/why-pun ... ed-states/

This is a great trend—one that industry will continue to build upon as long as sanctions don’t upset the apple cart. We have long advocated that India should buy its defense systems from the United States, starting with the F-16 from Lockheed Martin and F-18 from Boeing. If the United States were to sanction India over the S-400, then India would come under extreme political pressure to avoid any major deal with U.S. defense companies.

Furthermore, it is worth noting that an embargo will have impact on job creation in the United States — specifically on the civilian aircraft orders, where India is servicing its fast-growing air travel market. Our defense relationship is still suffering from sanctions that the United States imposed on India for conducting nuclear tests in 1998. Let’s not set back the clock another 20 years.

20 years ago, this very month, India tested five nuclear weapons. While India has moved ahead, the Amreekis are still stuck in 1998.

If Trump is unable to get Congress to pass a new law with waiver authority, he could move to delay the imposition of sanctions under Section 231(c) of CAATSA. He would have to certify that India is substantially reducing the number of significant transactions it makes with Russia. It takes time to shift current military platforms, which India is gradually shifting. While this move would not be clean and Congress’ buy-in is undetermined, Trump could argue that, from a historical perspective, India had reduced the number of significant transactions it had concluded with Russia.

So now, in order to buy American weapons, we must substantially reduce our dependence on Russia? :roll: :lol:

See the irony in the US political set up. The Executive Branch (the President) has one policy, while the Legislative Branch (the Congress) has a different policy. Every two years - due to elections - the majority in the House can switch from Republican to Democrat or vice-versa. With the US Senate, senators serve six year terms and then run for re-election. But even the Senate can change from red (Republican) to blue (Democrat) or vice versa, every two years. Each Congress has their own agenda. Every four years, the Executive goes through the same process and again, each President has policy objectives that he or she would like to achieve. Very rarely do these objectives - between the Executive and Legislative branches - are ever in sync. Extremely unstable foreign policy.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 29 May 2018 07:32

New U.S. Sanctions Pose Dilemma for India’s Defense
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... as-defense

Should India opt to continue doing business with Russia—a likely scenario—licenses of U.S. defense companies in India will be suspended and U.S. equity in India banned.

India is now between the devil and the deep blue sea. If India opts to do business with Russia, it loses out on spares and services from the U.S. on equipment already purchased such as the Boeing P-8I maritime patrol aircraft and the Lockheed Martin C-130J,” said a senior MoD official. However, with no “force majeure” clause in those contracts, U.S. defense companies will be considered defaulters according to India’s Defense Procurement Procedure, resulting in heavy fines.

“This issue brings us back to the issue of trust that took so long to build between the two nations,” said an Indian MoD official. He noted that India has not yet signed two foundational agreements for defense cooperation with the U.S.: the Communications Compatibility and Security Agreement, previously known as the Communications and Information Security Memorandum of Agreement, and Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement. The two are necessary for India to access communication security equipment on imports from the U.S. and sharing geospatial information, respectively. “India never fully trusted the U.S.,” the official added.

The official told AIN that anxious talks are being held with the Russians “on ways to get around” CAATSA because as India was nearing the purchase of the high-end Russian S-400 air defense system, a capability that the country cannot obtain from elsewhere.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 04 Jun 2018 03:33

US may block sale of Armed Drones as India is buying arms from Russia


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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 04 Jun 2018 23:04

Boeing Sees Two-Year Wait for World's Biggest Fighter Jet Deal
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... r-jet-deal

It could be another two years before India picks the winner of the world’s biggest combat aircraft order, according to a senior Boeing Co. executive. “We have gotten to know Indian industry, understand the Indian process,” Cunningham said.


Boeing’s Cunningham said the change in direction meant that the timing of the Indian Air Force process was now about 12 months later than the Indian Navy. “Certainly today, the Indian Navy timeline will conclude sooner than the Indian Air Force,” Cunningham said. “They would appear to us to be sequential, but I’m not assuming that they’re related.”

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 04 Jun 2018 23:09

^^^^ So a minimum of two years to reach contract signature. After that, another three years before first deliveries can begin. 2024 at the earliest. All the while, squadron shortage continues to dwindle.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Austin » 16 Jun 2018 14:40

Gripen E - The Future-Proof Fighter


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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby souravB » 16 Jun 2018 17:03

In my opinion, all the F series a/c do not stand a chance in the MMRCA 3.0. Least of all Gripen. IAF is waiting for upgradation of Rafale and to buy time, they started the tender farce.
Reasons:
    IAF in the long term wants to decrease the variety of a/c it uses for a laundry list of reasons
    after the initial purchase it will come cheaper
    IAF has started to follow USAF strategies and doctrines and according to them the bulk of the inventory should be Medium weight fighters
    all the other reasons that has already been discussed to death
Depending on the timeline of AMCA, the number of Rafales will vary and depending on Kaveri there might be an AHCA or a few numbers of Su-57 after 2030.
just my dream of seeing IAF has at least 70% of operating fleet as indigenous option.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Khalsa » 18 Jun 2018 02:45

Rakesh wrote:^^^^ So a minimum of two years to reach contract signature. After that, another three years before first deliveries can begin. 2024 at the earliest. All the while, squadron shortage continues to dwindle.


Admiral,
our elections must also be playing a decision deference role in this.
The next Lok Sabha elections.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 23 Jun 2018 12:48

INTERVIEW: ‘The F-16 Gives India Great Leverage In Defence Diplomacy’
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2018/06 ... omacy.html


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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby barath_s » 23 Jun 2018 21:30

Rakesh wrote:
US $14 billion [57 airplanes] + US $8 billion [67000 tonne conventionl carrier] = US $22 billion. This number is not for you or me.


You left out the cost of the carrier group. A carrier doesn't work in isolation. It needs a covering group of destroyers, cruisers and submarines.

Re Izumo, the navy has had an RFI out for landing dock helicopter / RFI for juan carlos/mistral class for many years. It, too is languishing somewhere in the weeds of priority.

The problem is not only that this is a StarWars++ kind of wishful thinking, it is that almost all procurement by any branch is almost as bad.

Since no one knows what will get through and when, there is no doctrine or position paper to drive the needs and spending or align them, no joint services to align disconnects and there is a virtual assurance that there will be no regular spending, each initiative is maxed out.

The government is scared of arguing on statement of needs and of political accusation of corruption and does not know how to balance priorities. It instead throttles everything wittingly or not, by the process

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Pratyush » 23 Jun 2018 21:43

Rakesh wrote:INTERVIEW: ‘The F-16 Gives India Great Leverage In Defence Diplomacy’
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2018/06 ... omacy.html



I have the land deed for the Rashtrapati bhawan to be sold for only 51 lakhs.

You will get clean land and building in the heart of Delhi right next to the centre of power.

Please transfer the money into my bank account the details are provided below.

A c number : You are a chu***
Bank name : 420 * 420

On a serious note it is 100% possible that Tejas will be cancelled in favour of this Chu***panti.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Philip » 23 Jun 2018 23:19

Sick if true.Media reports that we are offering buying hundreds of Boeing civil aircraft worth about $5B a year to ward off US trade sanctions/ duties on Indian products.Check who benefits by this as well at home!
This travelling to the US is nauseating.We should stand up and call spade spade.

Watch this deal for civil birds expand into the mil. dimension.The ASW helo G-to-G deal is an indication of the govt. succumbing to US armtwisting over CAASTA, etc.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 24 Jun 2018 02:02

barath_s wrote:You left out the cost of the carrier group. A carrier doesn't work in isolation. It needs a covering group of destroyers, cruisers and submarines.

Re Izumo, the navy has had an RFI out for landing dock helicopter / RFI for juan carlos/mistral class for many years. It, too is languishing somewhere in the weeds of priority.

The problem is not only that this is a StarWars++ kind of wishful thinking, it is that almost all procurement by any branch is almost as bad.

Since no one knows what will get through and when, there is no doctrine or position paper to drive the needs and spending or align them, no joint services to align disconnects and there is a virtual assurance that there will be no regular spending, each initiative is maxed out.

The government is scared of arguing on statement of needs and of political accusation of corruption and does not know how to balance priorities. It instead throttles everything wittingly or not, by the process

Saar, you are preaching to the choir. I fully agree. I have been saying that from day one, when this Star Wars project was launched. Finally, there has been some movement (but lot more needs to be done).

- Towed Array sonars are finally coming for destroyers and frigates via Germany's Atlas Elektronik
- G2G contract for 24 MH-60R Seahawk helicopters approved.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 24 Jun 2018 02:08

Pratyush wrote:On a serious note it is 100% possible that Tejas will be cancelled in favour of this Chu***panti.

Possible, but CAATSA has not gone too well in South Block. Realization has sunk in, that American fighters come with serious strings that India will not see herself tied to. The F-18 or F-16 are still possibilites, but the path has gotten more challenging. We will have to see the outcome of the 2+2 meeting next month.

If the F-16 and F-18 are out of the mix, the remaining four contendors are;

- MiG-35: Not happening
- Eurofighter Typhoon: Pointless
- Gripen E: strong contendor, with the F414 engine being its downfall. Low operational cost being among its trump cards.
- Rafale: Strongest contendor, politically speaking. The only negative being the cost, but that can be overcome by reducing the number.

110 fighters are not coming anyway. The IAF has already realized that fact. The stark reality is that the Tejas is the *ONLY* fighter that India can afford en masse. This will be another silver bullet purchase.

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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Rakesh » 24 Jun 2018 03:11

CANSEC 2018: Saab test pilot shows the benefits of the Gripen E's Wide Area Display


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Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Postby Pratyush » 24 Jun 2018 10:04

You are still thinking about the f series. You have totally ignored the other competitors.


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