Tejas Mk.2: News & Discussions - 25 February 2018

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 09 Oct 2018 22:10

Gyan wrote:LCA already has a huuge draggy wing. Rather than adding canard, perhaps it would be better to adopt AMCA wing design or layout. (without internal bay off course)

Are huge wings draggy???

You are either trolling, or have zero knowledge of basic aerodynamics. In either case, you should not have posted. Consider this an informal warning.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 09 Oct 2018 23:50

Karan M wrote:
JayS wrote:Guess what is this..?
Made in Amethi Gripen

Good one Saar! and nice find JayS. She is gorgeous!

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 10 Oct 2018 14:19

Jays Sir, as expected the idrw kids copied your image, dude seriously these guys need to have some shame ... anyways i like them as news aggregators but hate them for the lack of editorial ethics.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 10 Oct 2018 15:00

suryag wrote:Jays Sir, as expected the idrw kids copied your image, dude seriously these guys need to have some shame ... anyways i like them as news aggregators but hate them for the lack of editorial ethics.

What a lovely oxymoron!!
Editorial Ethics...

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 10 Oct 2018 15:33

JayS wrote:
Gyan wrote:LCA already has a huuge draggy wing. Rather than adding canard, perhaps it would be better to adopt AMCA wing design or layout. (without internal bay off course)
Where did you get this from..? And who says canards add to drag..? And how adopting AMCA wing design (basically creating a new aircraft) makes any sense..?

This is trolling, I say.

Supposedly Russians got rid of canards in the Su-35 due to drag.

The reasons are probably more complex than any simplistic conclusion like the above.

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 12 Oct 2018 11:49

Neshant wrote:
JayS wrote:
Where did you get this from..? And who says canards add to drag..? And how adopting AMCA wing design (basically creating a new aircraft) makes any sense..?

This is trolling, I say.
Supposedly Russians got rid of canards in the Su-35 due to drag.

The reasons are probably more complex than any simplistic conclusion like the above.

And why did they add canard in Su-30..? Because Su-27 was too sleek and they wanted to create export version with more drag and lesser capabilities...?

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 12 Oct 2018 11:55

suryag wrote:Jays Sir, as expected the idrw kids copied your image, dude seriously these guys need to have some shame ... anyways i like them as news aggregators but hate them for the lack of editorial ethics.

Ha ha. I should have put a small marker on the image.

Anyway, I shot a tweet to the buggers. The picture has also landed on Chinese Twitter "Weibo".

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 12 Oct 2018 14:44

JayS wrote:
suryag wrote:Jays Sir, as expected the idrw kids copied your image, dude seriously these guys need to have some shame ... anyways i like them as news aggregators but hate them for the lack of editorial ethics.
Ha ha. I should have put a small marker on the image.

Anyway, I shot a tweet to the buggers. The picture has also landed on Chinese Twitter "Weibo".

Ir And you've been saying that for last few years

Trikaal · Post by **Trikaal** » 12 Oct 2018 17:06

This is what the chinese poster had to say about it:

LCA光辉MK2构性研究之一，看来可动边条已经满足不了三哥的需求了

One of the LCA brilliant MK2 configuration studies, it seems that the movable edge strip can not meet the needs of the third brother.

Translated using Google Translate so not sure if accurate.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 12 Oct 2018 19:08

Tejas MK-1 >> Mig-21
Tejas MK-2 >> Mirage 2000 replacement

Now MK-1 is way more superior to the Mig-21
The MK-1A, hits any comparision for a six !

Similar can be expected of the Mk-2 as well

jpremnath · Post by **jpremnath** » 12 Oct 2018 20:08

JayS wrote:
suryag wrote:Jays Sir, as expected the idrw kids copied your image, dude seriously these guys need to have some shame ... anyways i like them as news aggregators but hate them for the lack of editorial ethics.
Ha ha. I should have put a small marker on the image.

Anyway, I shot a tweet to the buggers. The picture has also landed on Chinese Twitter "Weibo".

In the watermark, you should also add, "not for publishing at idrw"
That should shut those shameless guys...

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 12 Oct 2018 20:37

ArjunPandit wrote:
JayS wrote:
Ha ha. I should have put a small marker on the image.

Anyway, I shot a tweet to the buggers. The picture has also landed on Chinese Twitter "Weibo".
Ir And you've been saying that for last few years

I just can't remember about the IDRW thugs before posting something. May be during the coming AI-19.

jpremnath wrote:
JayS wrote:
Ha ha. I should have put a small marker on the image.

Anyway, I shot a tweet to the buggers. The picture has also landed on Chinese Twitter "Weibo".
In the watermark, you should also add, "not for publishing at idrw"
That should shut those shameless guys...

Ha ha. Thats a good idea.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 17 Oct 2018 11:20

It is ~~323~~ 324.

UAE ‘interested’ in HAL-made light combat aircraft Tejas
https://m.economictimes.com/news/defenc ... 253936.cms

But HAL will first have to meet the demands of the IAF. It is trying to meet IAF’s demand for 123 Tejas. The IAF is also looking at inducting more than 200 Tejas Mark 2. However, the projects are heavily delayed.

=========

We need more production lines.

How about 5?

_____
Q: will pakis to get to fly Tejas if we sell to UAE?

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 17 Oct 2018 13:47

^^packees would give both the kidneys for getting hands on tejas

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 17 Oct 2018 13:59

SaiK wrote:It is ~~323~~ 324.
_____
Q: will pakis to get to fly Tejas if we sell to UAE?

This is a strategic asset and India will do everything it can to protect it. You know, IAF pilots can be deputed too! And very likely, a team from HAL.

Trikaal · Post by **Trikaal** » 17 Oct 2018 16:43

SaiK wrote:It is ~~323~~ 324.

Actually, according to Air chief, it's only 231.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 18 Oct 2018 03:23

Trikaal wrote:
SaiK wrote:It is ~~323~~ 324.
Actually, according to Air chief, it's only 231.

This was only last month - oped. https://www.livefistdefence.com/2018/09 ... firms.html

perhaps you are hinting 231 Mk2s. yay! [it has to meet chief's conditions though per this article]

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 18 Oct 2018 05:32

18 sqadrons - 324 aircraft

20+20+83+201=324

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 19 Oct 2018 03:50

But what about the Tejas Mk.2? The planned up-engined, beefed up Tejas variant has hit a bit of a vacuum now, with the IAF all but pronouncing that it won’t be pursuing the type. A contest awarded to GE for the the F414-GE-INS6 turbofan engine hasn’t translated into a contract yet. But the Mk.2 programme is still very much on. A top official told Livefist, “As far as ADA and HAL are concerned, we are progressing design and development of Mk.2 as it has been approved by the Govt. There are benefits in continuing with it.”

Improvements planned on the Tejas Mk.2, apart from the more powerful engine and attendant expansion of op envelope, include new sensors, new indigenous actuators, and a new indigenous avionics architecture. The variant will also involve the removal of 250 kg in ballast weight, a further half ton weight reduction through revised design factors, performance improvements by “aerodynamic refinements of geometry”, an internal electronic warfare suite (incorporate in the Mk.1A plan), a brand new suite of indigenous avionics systems currently under development, a new digital flight control computer, OBOGS for mission endurance. Crucially, the Mk.2 will also sport an additional LP bleed port from the engine, a safety feature to ensure crucial backup for flight-critical Bleed Air Shut Off Valve (BASOV) failure for fuel tank pressurisation. In addition, the type will get fuel system improvements, NVG compatible external lighting with LEDs.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/2016/06 ... hosen.html

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 19 Oct 2018 05:33

Why are we discussing speculative articles from 2 years back?

Trikaal · Post by **Trikaal** » 19 Oct 2018 12:26

SaiK wrote:But what about the Tejas Mk.2? The planned up-engined, beefed up Tejas variant has hit a bit of a vacuum now, with the IAF all but pronouncing that it won’t be pursuing the type. A contest awarded to GE for the the F414-GE-INS6 turbofan engine hasn’t translated into a contract yet.

I don't know what you are talking about. In a recent press release, the air chief categorically stated that the IAF was on board with the Mk2 programme and that they wanted to induct 231 Tejas planes, all generations combined. He also listed the expectations from Mk2, where it is expected to be in the medium aircraft category and match Mirage 2000 in performance parameters.

Here's the youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95TxsfyauCU

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 20 Oct 2018 02:10

Not 231 Trikaal 324! Seems you didn’t order your 324 Tejas t-shirt.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 20 Oct 2018 10:05

I wonder if LCA Mark 2 is adopting the design philosophy of F16XL? Whether we can understand LCA MK2 Better by looking at F-16XL?

Some Good open source Research based Articles on (Cranked Delta Wing of) F-16XL (rather than fan boy estimates)

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/file ... flight.pdf

http://www.f-16.net/forum/download/file.php?id=18581

Trikaal · Post by **Trikaal** » 20 Oct 2018 13:32

Katare wrote:Not 231 Trikaal 324! Seems you didn’t order your 324 Tejas t-shirt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95TxsfyauCU
Air chief in a presser said IAF wants to recruit 231 Tejas over time. It was a sad day for the '324' t-shirts

ManuJ · Post by **ManuJ** » 21 Oct 2018 01:01

We shouldn't get too hung up over the numbers.
The truth is, IAF will induct as many LCAs as HAL can produce in the next 15 years.

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 21 Oct 2018 06:34

Trikaal wrote:
Katare wrote:Not 231 Trikaal 324! Seems you didn’t order your 324 Tejas t-shirt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95TxsfyauCU
Air chief in a presser said IAF wants to recruit 231 Tejas over time. It was a sad day for the '324' t-shirts

Don’t be sad my friend, it is 324 only! Put on your T-shirt with pride and confidence. Dhanoa saab made a mistake. Add how many Mig29+MK2+ Jaguars we have that Mk2 would replace.

I have a better source than him, his deputy who is responsible for all of IAF’s procurement. He clearly states that IAF would get 18 sqadrons not 12 like Dhanoa saar said. Watch from 9:30....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gyr0ItNa8xE

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 21 Oct 2018 07:06

Katare wrote:
Trikaal wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95TxsfyauCU
Air chief in a presser said IAF wants to recruit 231 Tejas over time. It was a sad day for the '324' t-shirts
Don’t be sad my friend, it is 324 only! Put on your T-shirt with pride and confidence. Dhanoa saab made a mistake. Add how many Mig29+MK2+ Jaguars we have that Mk2 would replace.

I have a better source than him, his deputy who is responsible for all of IAF’s procurement. He clearly states that IAF would get 18 sqadrons not 12 like Dhanoa saar said. Watch from 9:30....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gyr0ItNa8xE

First let us complete one squadron...

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 21 Oct 2018 19:19

DELETED

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 26 Jan 2019 01:09

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1088335979146952704 ---> As far as the Tejas Mk-2 is concerned, prototyping wil need fresh funds to be sanctioned. But has even the proposal for that reached the sanctioning authority? Extensive CFD studies on canard configurations etc have been done & it is now time to actually build something.

sankum · Post by **sankum** » 11 Feb 2019 18:28

Tejas mk2 cross sectional diagrams in HAL jig assembly tenders.

Front section with canards
http://hal-india.co.in/Common/Uploads/T ... I%20FF.pdf

Mid section
http://hal-india.co.in/Common/Uploads/T ... I%20CF.pdf

Rear section
http://hal-india.co.in/Common/Uploads/T ... I%20RF.pdf

My estimate for total length is 14.5m(1.3m more than mk1).

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 11 Feb 2019 18:52

wah wah who is that who said it is on paper every line of that tender is pure gold i am so happy to read that i cant wait to post each and every little detail adn am starting with the first summary, btw time to have a Tejas MK2 wiki page now that we have most of these details

look at page 7 of the first link canards are there

there is also fuel in the spine

page 6 of second link

dont know what stub wing means but yeah tahts there too

length of the fuselage is 6100 + 4500 + 3300 mm = 13900mm = 13.9 metres which is about 0.7 metres more than MK1

There is no indication of a plug between front and mid fuselage which was proposed in the papers(pardon my ignorance)

OVerall like IR sir said the design is super ready, they have most of the LRUs planned out(real estate allocation) and a flight in 2020 looks a definite possibility. Waht i didnt understand is this "jigless" is this some new kind of manufacturing ? where it is indeed plug and play ?? jigs to be operational in 240 days ................... which means by end of 2019 we have the aircraft fuselage ready

and to cap it all the tender says please plan to support 24 assemblies/year, so even if it is done by 2025 then starting that year we will have 24 aircrafts coming in every year hurrayyyyyyyyyy how i wish this was done 5 years ago

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 11 Feb 2019 19:08

so excited reading these tender docs

Any idea if HMT can try these jigless machinery ?

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 11 Feb 2019 19:25

sankum wrote:Tejas mk2 cross sectional diagrams in HAL jig assembly tenders.

Front section with canards
http://hal-india.co.in/Common/Uploads/T ... I%20FF.pdf

Mid section
http://hal-india.co.in/Common/Uploads/T ... I%20CF.pdf

Rear section
http://hal-india.co.in/Common/Uploads/T ... I%20RF.pdf

My estimate for total length is 14.5m(1.3m more than mk1).

Yummy. Thanks a lot. You made my day..

24/yr production rate.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 11 Feb 2019 19:33

Great find!

From the mid-section drawing, does anyone else get the impression that the air ducts have slight downward and then inward S curve to it?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 11 Feb 2019 19:54

What's the "Stub Wing" under the canards? I can't paste the image w.o authorization.

ps: ssshhh

SKrishna · Post by **SKrishna** » 11 Feb 2019 20:29

Super excited to see the canard config on the MK2. Waiting for the full mock-up at Aero India.

(/rant) Why no DSI when they went to all the trouble with canards? (rant end)

sankum · Post by **sankum** » 11 Feb 2019 20:33

The engine nozzle will extend beyond rear. 3.3m section by 80-90cm and some portion of section may overlap therefore length estimate is 14.5m.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 11 Feb 2019 20:36

Ignore the dumb question

sankum · Post by **sankum** » 11 Feb 2019 20:46

Stub wings are parts of main wing.

naird · Post by **naird** » 11 Feb 2019 20:59

What a fantastic discovery. Sankum - thanks a lot !

but hold on - why would HAL issue tender now ? From a lifecycle point of view - isnt ADA supposed to construct a complete prototype before HAL taking over productionizing the prototype ? My guess is that this means - that ADA is already well on its way to roll out prototype. Maybe AMCDE Balaji did was correct when he said 2020 !