CAATSA...An Oxymoron?

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Prem » 13 Jun 2018 09:13

http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=558809

US approves $930 million sale to India of additional 6 Apache AH-64E helicopters

The U.S. State Department approved the sale of equipment including Hellfire and Stinger missiles, supporting a proposed direct commercial sale of six Boeing AH-64E Apache attack helicopters, the Defense Security Cooperation Agency said in a release.The total estimated program cost is $930 million, the Tuesday, June 12 release said.India requested a range of equipment including 14 General Electric engines, four AN/APG-78 fire control radars and other radar equipment, seven of the Apache’s Modernized Target Acquisition Designation Sight/Pilot Night Vision Sensor systems and 14 Embedded GPS Inertial Navigation Systems,The proposed sale also includes 180 AGM-114 L-3 Hellfire Longbow air-to-surface anti-armor missiles; 90 AGM-114 R-3 Hellfire II air-to-surface missiles; 200 Stinger air-to-air missiles; rockets; 30 mm cannons and ammunition.It also includes simulators, communication equipment, spare and repair parts, training, engineering and other support.The proposed sale will “strengthen India’s ability to defend its homeland and deter regional threats” and “provide an increase in India’s defensive capability to counter ground-armored threats and modernize its armed forces,” DSCA said.The prime contractors for the support sale will be Lockheed Martin, General Electric, Longbow and Raytheon, while Boeing manufactures the Apache helicopters.On June 1, Tata Boeing Aerospace delivered the first AH-64 Apache helicopter fuselage made in Hyderabad, India. The joint venture between Boeing and Tata will be the sole Apache helicopter fuselage producer for Boeing’s global customers including the U.S. Army. Completed fuselages will be transported to Boeing’s facility in Arizona for integration.India’s Ministry of Defence initially ordered 22 AH-64E Apache helicopters for the Indian Air Force in September 2015 and deliveries are set to begin in 2019. Then, in August 2017, India’s Defence Acquisition Council approved the purchase of a further six aircraft. The Diplomat reported that the later purchase for the Indian Army Aviation Corps was under an option clause to the earlier contract that allowed for a follow-on order of up to 11 additional Apaches at a price that was agreed in 2013.

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Rakesh » 16 Jun 2018 00:35

LM's pitch to the Indian Government is that the F-16 Block 70/72 comes with F-35 technologies. Read below :)

Why Lawmakers Are Trying To Block Delivery Of Fighter Jets To Turkey
https://www.npr.org/2018/06/14/62010332 ... -to-turkey

But there may be a problem. Congress is moving to block delivery of the F-35 to this nation that's been part of the NATO alliance since 1952. And it could be many months before Turkey's first F-35A would be ready to cross the Atlantic, because Turkish pilots have yet to begin their training at Luke Air Force Base in Arizona to fly it. The Senate has led opposition to the deal. "On its surface, because they're a NATO ally, I don't object to it," North Carolina Republican Thom Tillis declared this week on the Senate floor. "But today, I strongly object to it."

There are national security concerns as well about turning over F-35s to Turkey. "The Turkish government claims to have purchased a Russian air defense system designed to shoot these very planes down," New Hampshire Democrat Jeanne Shaheen declared as she joined Tillis in the Senate chamber. "NATO partners need these F-35s to counter Russian activity. We would be handing this technology over to the Kremlin if we granted Turkey these planes, and Congress will not stand for it."

Late last year, Turkish Defense Minister Nurettin Canikli announced that Turkey had ordered the Russian-made Triumf S-400 air defense system, whose eight launchers and 32 missiles can target both stealth warplanes and missiles within a radius of 372 miles. The missile system is not inter-operable with NATO's air defenses. More worrisome, Russia and Turkey could together use it to run tests to reveal vulnerabilities in the F-35. "If the Russians want by electronic means or even through their technicians to get access to all this F-35 stuff that's highly classified, that's a problem," says James Jeffrey, a former U.S. ambassador to Turkey.

That was followed by a more specific warning last week from Wess Mitchell, who's the State Department's assistant secretary for European and Eurasian affairs and its point man on Turkey. "They should expect that if they move forward with a sophisticated Russian weapons platform, they can expect to see it have a ripple effect for their participation in U.S. military industrial projects," Mitchell said at the Heritage Foundation, "and I think that includes the F-35."

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Austin » 16 Jun 2018 13:52

The congress men are just bombastic , How does using S-400 compromise F-35 technology is beyond words the Russian would then claim using F-35 would compromise S-400 technology ! Would India using S-400 compromise French Rafale technology or vice verse ?

They dont want Turkey to purchase any Non-Nato weapons and they are blackmailing Turkey to purchase US weapons on US terms , Turkey has soured relations with US , the former has to do with US supporting Kurds in Iraq/Syria and they fear kurds will carve a state for themselves endangering Turkey statehood and it has to do with Gullan boss suspected of supporting a massive failed coup against Erdgon and US is not extraditing him to Turkey.

Turkey relations with US is broken at Political and Geo-Strategic level since Obama days.

Turkey slams US demand to nix S-400 deal as ‘blackmail’
Turkish Defense Minister Nurettin Canikli slammed the US demand to give up the deal to purchase S-400 air defense missile systems from Russia as ‘blackmail,’ the Anadolu news agency reported on Thursday.

"Such a demand goes beyond any permissible norms of diplomacy and trade relations. The fulfillment of this demand is unacceptable. The situation can be characterized as blackmail," the Turkish defense minister said.

Canikli also said that Turkey "is fulfilling all its commitments" and expected "timely deliveries of F-35 fighter jets" from the United States.

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby eklavya » 17 Jun 2018 00:42

One way of fixing the US would be to request their vendors to obtain certificates from the US government before they enter tenders in India that CAATSA will be permanently waived for the supply of that equipment. Why should we even bother evaluating their equipment if CAATSA may apply. It’s their law, let them deal with it.

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Rakesh » 17 Jun 2018 07:50

Eklavya, therein lies the problem.

The US Govt is not bound by *ANY* law (including their own) because the two governing parties are so diameterically opposite of each other, that what one government (the Administration which consists of The President & the Cabinet and the Congress, which consists of the House of Representatives and the Senate) adopts, is not necessarily followed by the next government even if its from the same party. Getting waiver certificates will mean squat to the next Congress and the next Administration. Here are two examples;

1) The Pressler Amendment which sanctioned Pakistan over their nuclear program in the 1990s - by a Republican Administration - did a full u-turn years later. 18 F-16 Block 50/52s were delivered to Pakistan for its contribution on the War on Terror by another Republican Administration in the late 2000s. There was an option for another 18, which got denied due to lack of funds.

2) The Patient Protection & Affordable Care Act (ACA) aka Obamacare (law of the land, but the Republicans are slowly dismantling it). Even within their own party, there is dissent over complete repeal because the Republicans cannot agree on a replacement solution. If Democrats win the Presidency in 2020 (and get a subsequent House and Senate majority), I can guarentee you whatever was dismantled in the ACA, will come right back.

The vendors (OEMs) make ridiculous sums of money from their host country and they will not dare upset the money cart over waiver certificates from the US Government. If and when the next US Government tells them to throw those waiver certificates out the window, they will not even flinch or think twice about doing so. The only thing they understand is money i.e. suck on the teat.

I am not sure if you followed the Single Engine Thread on BRF, but the few folks (who argued for the F-16 and F-18 to join the IAF) said that BRF was being too narrow minded in not seeing the value of the strategic partnership between India and the United States. He also said that this idea of America sanctioning India is very 1990s thinking. So what happened now?

And the wonderful theories that were put forth - in favour of the F-16 (and as an extension, the F-18) - strategic partnership, employment (for every one job assembling F-16s in India via Tata Advanced Systems Limited, four more jobs would be created elsewhere), parts, parts, parts, upgrading other countries' F-16s, rolling other sectors of the economy and what not was put forward on BRF. Where would this utopia be, if the Americans imposed sanctions on India for the S-400 purchase?

We have to be fools to consider the F-16, F-18 or any other fighter purchase from the Americans...waiver certificates or otherwise. My fear is that we will end with them anyhow. The geopolitics might force our hand. I hope and pray that never happens.

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Austin » 17 Jun 2018 13:45

Well put Rakesh , Indeed the more US arms we buy over a period of time eventually they will have move control over us to infulence our foreign policy and greater penetration inside our Military Estb across the board.

All you need to be is on the wrong side of US foreign or economic policy to get sanctioned , CAATSA is just one symptom of the problem not the problem itself , We can see how economic tarrif is applied on India now and how other things H1B policy or pressure on Energy Security with it comes to dealing with Iran , policy can change overnight and we will left sucking our thumb

As soon as we start exercising our independent foreign or Economic policy that is not on the right side of US FP they will start shafting us on one grounds or other.

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby kit » 17 Jun 2018 20:30

Rakesh wrote:LM's pitch to the Indian Government is that the F-16 Block 70/72 comes with F-35 technologies. Read below :)

Why Lawmakers Are Trying To Block Delivery Of Fighter Jets To Turkey
https://www.npr.org/2018/06/14/62010332 ... -to-turkey

If the F-35 stealth is compromised the F-22 stealth would also be likely compromised to some degree .. the S-400 seems to be a good platform to test its weakness wrt to certain radar wavelengths and devise counter options. Even without the S-400 its quite likely if the F-35 goes to Turkey (sic !) :mrgreen:

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Rakesh » 17 Jun 2018 21:26

Kit, that is correct. But the reverse is also true. Every system has its inherent strengths and weaknesses. They should make the F-35 purchase for Turkey quid pro quo for access to the S-400. But perhaps the risk of revealing the weaknesses of the F-35 far outweighs the gains in learning the weaknesses of the S-400.

In India’s case - stay away from any American fighter. Great platforms, but extremely unreliable ally. And in India’s threat environment, we cannot afford that risk.

I am not advocating for Russian platforms, but what is different from the MiG-29K’s single digit serviceability rate versus grounded F-16s or F-18s because of CAATSA sanctions?

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Austin » 17 Jun 2018 22:19

US-Turkey row: American lawmakers urge Mattis to immediately halt ‘inconceivable’ sale of F-35s

https://www.rt.com/usa/429999-f35-turkey-russia-ban/

a group of 44 Congressmen has written a letter to Mattis outlining how “inconceivable” it would be to sell the jets to its NATO ally.

Our concern about the sale of F-35 jets to Turkey comes against the backdrop of Turkey's planned purchase of the Russian S-400 surface-to-air missile system. As a NATO ally, Turkey integrates its military systems with those of other NATO members,” the letter, dated June 15, reads. “It is inconceivable that we would place the F-35 technology in the hands of the deepening Russian-Turkish relationship.”

Claiming that Ankara is actively “operating to undermine US interests” across the globe, the bi-partisan group warned that integrating F-35 jets into the country's overall structure would expose America’s “most closely guarded military secrets.”

“We also have no confidence that Turkey will use F-35s responsibly in the region,”
the letter says, noting that Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has previously threatened to attack American soldiers in Syria.

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby dinesha » 18 Jun 2018 08:58

https://twitter.com/sandeepunnithan/sta ... 14337?s=12

Wonder if anyone saw these new India-specific modifications intended to bypass CAATSA. Inserted into the US National Defence Authorisation Act's "Enhancing Defence Cooperation with India" sub-section.



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Last edited by dinesha on 18 Jun 2018 15:15, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Neshant » 18 Jun 2018 11:19

US itself is purchasing Russian rocket engines.

India can certainly bring this issue up with the US.

They want India to follow a dictat which they themselves are not following!

-------

Despite 'New, Tough Sanctions', US Takes Delivery Of Russian Rocket Engines

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06- ... et-engines

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby kit » 18 Jun 2018 15:02

I am trying to include some discussions pertinent to the acronyms that the US seems so intent to push into India. The interesting one is the COMCASA and the level of intrusion this can do into Indian military communications and sensor platforms including BMD and early warning systems

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Austin » 19 Jun 2018 09:39

US Senate blocks F-35 sales to Turkey

A bipartisan clause added to the National Defense Authorisation Act — which was passed by the Senate on Monday evening by a vote of 85 to 10 — would prohibit the transfer of F-35s to Turkey until the secretary of defence submits a plan to remove Turkey from participation in the programme, which includes allocating production of parts to each country.

Turkey is one of 14 Nato member countries that help construct the stealth plane, along with the UK, Norway and Israel.

US senators made the intervention given concerns over Turkey’s stated intent to install the Russian S400 air defence system, which Pentagon officials are concerned would put the secrets of the F-35 and the data it collects at risk.



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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Austin » 19 Jun 2018 09:49

India Today: The sanctions shadow
Sandeep Unnithan
When foreign minister Sushma Swaraj and defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman travel to Washington next month for the first of the annual '2+2' strategic dialogue with their respective US counterparts Mike Pompeo and Jim Mattis, they will have Russia on their mind. Specifically, how to insulate Indias military preparedness from the threat of US sanctions, which has hung a sword of Damocles over the country's military ties with Russia.

In January, the US law CAATSA (Countering Americas Adversaries Through Sanctions Act) came into effect. The law imposes sanctions on Russia, North Korea and Iran as well as countries buying arms from them.

A senior government official says while the sanctions imposed after the Russian annexation of Crimea in 2014 focused only on Russian firms, CAATSA shifts the US attack to foreign countries doing business with all Russian military firms. This has serious implications for India, one of Russia's largest defence partners for nearly 50 years. It not only needs spare parts for warships, fighter jets, radars and battle tanks that now make up nearly 60 per cent of its weaponry, the sanctions impact arms deals worth over $12 billion that the Indian armed forces are seeking to counter China and Pakistan.

The navy has recently negotiated the lease of a second nuclear-powered attack submarine from Russia for $2 billion. The amount will pay for the lease and refit of a Russian navy Akula-2 hull, which is to join the navy in the next decade to replace INS Chakra, which was leased from Russia in 2008. The army needs to urgently replace its ageing fleet of Cheetah and Chetak helicopters with Kamov 226 light utility helicopters, 140 of which will be manufactured in India as a joint venture between Russian Helicopters and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). The Indian Air Force wants five S-400 surface-to-air missile systems worth over Rs 40,000 crore from Russia to significantly offset the disadvantages of its depleted fighter squadrons when facing the air forces of China and Pakistan in case of a two-front war. Each missile has a range of nearly 400 km. When deployed on the border, they can cover vast reaches of Pakistan's airspace (the US-made Patriot PAC-3 missile has a range of just 70 km).


All of these deals will see significant currency transactions, which are likely to attract provisions of CAATSA, but given Indias financial constraints, the deal for S-400 missiles seems closest to the finish line. The S-400 contract is likely to be signed when President Vladimir Putin visits India later this year for the 19th Annual India-Russia bilateral summit. This one deal will thus be the test case of the Indian government's ability to withstand United States sanctions, particularly since the US regards this particular missile system with deep suspicion.

We have clearly explained to the US that India and Russia's defence cooperation is a time-tested relationship.
- Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman


On May 28, Mac Thornberry, chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, told journalists in Delhi that there is "a lot of concern in the US in both the administration and the Congress" over the S-400 system. "And there is concern that any country, and it is not just India that is looking at clearing it, but any country that acquires that system will complicate our ability to work out inter-operability," Thornberry said.


THE WAY OUT

CAATSA forces New Delhi to choose between strategic partners Russia and the US. A decade since the signing of the landmark Indo-US nuclear deal in 2008, the relationship has blossomed into a thriving arms partnership, with the United States becoming India's second-largest arms partner. Both countries regularly hold a series of military manoeuvres under the recently renamed 'Indo-Pacific Command' and have shared common concerns over a rising China.

Meanwhile, CAATSA and the unpredictability of the Donald Trump administration have forced a subtle reset in New Delhi and driving India and Russia closer.

Even as the US gears up to counter a China-Russia axis, New Delhi has reiterated its belief in a multi-polar world. On May 21, Prime Minister Narendra Modi met Putin at an informal summit in Sochi, Russia. On May 29, National Security Advisor Ajit Doval, a key figure in the India-Russia relationship, got Pankaj Saran, India's ambassador to Russia, as his deputy national security advisor. And on June 5, defence minister Sitharaman came out with an emphatic endorsement. "In all our engagements with the United States, we have clearly explained to them that India and Russia's defence cooperation has been going on for a long time and that it is a time-tested relationship. We have also mentioned that CAATSA cannot be impacting on this," she said in New Delhi.

Adds a senior defence official: "We are not the Dominican Republic or Canada, we are India and we have conveyed our concerns to the US administration."


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"It is quite obvious there is a division between the Trump Administration and the US Congress, which is full of Russia baiters, on this issue," says G Parthasarathy, former Indian High commissioner to Pakistan. "Amongst the countries the US is targeting and looking for cooperation for its Indo-Pacific strategy are Vietnam, Indonesia and India--all three vital for achieving its aims. All three have placed orders for or looking forward to doing this for more Russian weaponry. The Americans will have to be told that not just the "Quad" but many who share our views on Indo-Pacific will look at this action as not being friendly."

The United States was already conscious of the impact of CAATSA on partners like India. Signing the bill into law last August, President Donald Trump raised objections, terming it 'seriously flawed' because it limited the executive branch's flexibility on foreign policy. On April 27, Mattis told a Congressional hearing by the Senate Armed Services Committee that a national security waiver be urgently provided to India and other countries, which are trying to turn away from Russian-sourced weapons, to avoid sanctions under CAATSA.


Responding to the request, the US Senate this month inserted four new clauses under Section 1292 of the Act 'Enhancing Defense and Security Cooperation with India' in its defence budget passed last month. The new clauses empower the Trump administration to suspend CAATSA sanctions, but it has to certify that India was reducing its dependency on Russia 'and has a desire to continue doing so', as Thornberry told the media in New Delhi.

The clauses are of the nature of describing 'limitations that hinder or slow (down) progress' in Indo-US ties, 'a description of actions India is taking, or the actions the Secretary of Defense or the Secretary of State believe India should take', to advance the relationship with the United States, measures that can be taken by the United States and India to improve interoperability. And, lastly, it also inserts a clause 'progress in enabling agreements between the United States and India'. The last reflects the US administration's pique over India's slow progress in 'foundation agreements', such as LEMOA (Logistics Exchange Memorandum of Agreement), signed in 2016 after nearly a decade. The Communications Compatibility and Security Agreement (COMCASA) and Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement (BECA) are yet to be signed.


"It's not just the S-400 deal, but India's strategic autonomy that is at stake," says Vice Admiral A.K. Singh (retired), a former commanding-in-chief, Eastern Naval Command. "Hopefully, our leaders will realise we cannot break ties with Russia. The United States is the world leader in anti-submarine warfare, stealth technology and drone technology, but will never part with it or even sell it. There are certain technologies only the Russians will give us." With the 2016 commissioning of the nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine INS Arihant, India recently operationalised the third leg of its nuclear triad, the ability to fire nuclear-tipped missiles from under the sea. This could not have been done without considerable Russian assistance.

ON THE GROUND

Meanwhile, India and Russia have moved away from US dollars and euros and now do business in rupees and roubles. Agreements are being re-drafted and new modes of payments being established between Indian and Russian state-owned banks. Syndicate Bank, Vijaya Bank and the Indian Bank and Sberbank of Russia have been designated to handle the rupee-rouble payments for India to pay for Russian military purchases. The payments bypass SWIFT transactions, which are routed through New York. The first contracts were redrawn recently for the $208 million mid-life upgrade of a Russian-built Kilo class submarine in Russia. But while these relatively minor deals might go under the radar, it is the big-ticket items like the S-400 missile system that have the potential to cause worry in South Block.

"We have to stand firm while making payments arrangements, making it clear to the US that any attempt to pressurise us on the score will only make us prefer exporters like France, Germany and Israel, over US firms. We have to mobilize the Indian community and other friends in the US to lobby on this. There are clearly many in the Administration and Academia who share our views. The Secretaries of State and Defence back us," says Parthasarathy.

A waiver from the US administration will leave a strong negotiation lever in with the US, which they can use to extract other concessions from India. Under present circumstances, India's choices seem pretty limited.

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby dinesha » 19 Jun 2018 12:32

India, Russia weigh rupee-rouble trade for defence deals
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 641731.cms
Senior officials told ET that after several rounds of consultations, it has become evident that a rupee-rouble transfer-–pegged on the exchange rate of an international currency—is the solution. As of now, India signs defence contracts with Russia for which payments are made in US dollars.

With US sanctions making this impossible, contract payments have been frozen since April. A top official said that a foreign currency-—say the Singapore dollar-—could be used as the benchmark and and contract payments would be conducted directly.

However, the two nations are still struggling to find banks that would run the risk of facing US sanctions for transferring the money. Sources said that on the Indian side, the banks being talked to include Vijaya Bank and Indian Bank.

On the Russian side, its largest banking entity in India, Sberbank, was involved in talks. However, the Russian bank has not given any commitment on making the payments. A decision is still to be taken but the idea is to involve banks with the least exposure to American sanctions.


Payments worth over $100 million were blocked in less than a month with payments of over $2 billion facing uncertainty. This includes a payment of over $15 million to Russia that would have been used to repair the damaged INS Chakra nuclear submarine that met with an accident in late 2016.

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby dinesha » 19 Jun 2018 13:22

With US sanctions, India has perfect window of opportunity for defence deals with Vietnam
https://theprint.in/opinion/with-us-san ... nam/72026/

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby kit » 19 Jun 2018 19:57

frankly, i think given the circumstances a CAATSA sanction on India would be good for the country in the long run

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Austin » 21 Jun 2018 09:05

Senate passes defence bill without CAATSA waiver

The Senate version of the National Defence Authorisation Act (NDAA) for 2019 passed on Monday has no waiver provisions.


The U.S Senate has ignored the Donald Trump administration’s request for powers to waiver provisions of the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA), which requires it to impose sanctions on countries that have “significant” defence relations with Russia.

The Senate version of the National Defence Authorisation Act (NDAA) for 2019 passed on Monday has no waiver provisions.

The version of the NDAA 2019 passed earlier by the House of Representatives has a provisions for waiver in rules attached to it, but that is inadequate to address India’s concerns about the law. India is caught in the crossfire of the bipartisan law against Russia, due to its defence relations with Kremlin.

The House version allows for waivers for 180 days, provided the administration certifies that the country in question is scaling back its ties with Russia. This formulation is inadequate to resolve the Indian situation, as it links waiver to India rolling back ties with Russia.

The House and Senate versions of the bill are reconciled through a conference process, but any hope of a legislative resolution to the CAATSA headache now appears out of reach. People lobbying for changes in the law in order to ensure that India’s increasing defence purchases from America won’t be interrupted by sanctions said lawmakers would be more amenable after the November 2018 midterm elections.

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Neshant » 21 Jun 2018 10:57

dinesha wrote:With US sanctions, India has perfect window of opportunity for defence deals with Vietnam
https://theprint.in/opinion/with-us-san ... nam/72026/


Babuz will squander it though..

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Rakesh » 22 Jun 2018 05:05

Warning! Bharat Karnad article...for FWIW :)

US Arm Twists India to Buy Patriot-3 Systems And Not Russians S-400
http://www.thecitizen.in/index.php/en/n ... ians-s-400

Late last year, the Iran-supported Houthi rebels in Yemen fired a Burqan-2 missile (a Scud variant) aimed at the international airport in Riyadh some 600 miles to the northeast. The missile got to its target alright but due to the strains in the metal canister induced by the flight, blew apart with the debris littering parts of the runway and the road outside the airport. The Saudis, however, claimed that they had fired five Patriot advanced capability (PAC-3) interceptor at the intruder and had destroyed the Houthi Burqan. US President Donald Trump visiting Saudi Arabia not long after that event crowed, “Our system knocked the missile out of the air. That’s how good we are. Nobody makes what we make, and now we’re selling it all over the world.” Trump is a loud, less than, credible snake oil salesman at the best of times. As promoter of the PAC-3 he is eminently ignorable, as is any US official urging friendly countries to buy this air defence system whose worldwide publicity is far better than its performance. Except, and this is a kicker, an analysis by air defence experts of the debris distribution and of the parts of the Burqan system that the Saudis proudly displayed days after the attack, came to the conclusion, as reported in the American press, that the incoming missile had come apart by itself at the end of its trajectory and, more shocking still to Trump Admin officials, the Pentagon, and Raytheon — the maker of the Patriot, that all the five PAC-3 interceptors the Saudis fired had missed the target!

Last month Tina Kaidanow, principal deputy assistant secretary of the US State Department’s Political-Military Affairs Bureau, came to Delhi on a triple-pronged mission — to press Delhi to sign the remaining two “foundational” agreements — COMCASA and BECA as follow up to the LSA; and to prevent India signing up to buy the Russian counterpart of the PAC-3, the S-400, for $5 billion; and to persuade the Modi government to buy instead the American product, PAC-3, that doesn’t work. While Kaidanow’s visit wasn’t reported by the Indian media, External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj’s statement that India would go in for the Russian item even if it attracted US sanctions under the 2018 Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act, was. Apparently, the US State Dept official’s muffled threat of CAATSA did not work, nor did it “engender a willingness” on the part of the Indian government to think about the US PAC-3 system as replacement. And as regards COMCASA and BECA she was told nothing she could be reassured by.

“As a function of trying to move the defense relationship forward — and certainly the defense trade relationship — it is important that those foundational agreements are considered by the Indian government, they are acted on hopefully as expeditiously as possible,” Kaidanow told the Washington defence media. “Of course it is their sovereign right to decide on these things, but our hope is that we have presented to them some good options and some ways forward. Hopefully we can make some progress in that relatively soon.” And pertaining to the F-16 and perhaps also the PAC-3, she said “American defense product is great product — it is the best in the world. It’s central that countries really think about when they acquire these things — and particularly when we’re talking about important systems … — that they think about the quality and the interoperability piece and all of the things that we know come with the acquisition of American products.”

Kaidanow is right. Buying military goods from the US comes with lot of attached baggage and just too many do’s and don’t’s, inclusive of the uncertainty attending on the spares supply, which can be stopped at any time on Congressional whim and an Administration’s fancy. And worst of all, the PAC-3 does not work as advertised. Whether Prime Minister Narendra Modi is convinced about the cons outweighing the pros or not, the political scene at home tilting against him suggests his government is unlikely during the remainder of its first term at least to sign any accords, or buy anything big from America, let alone nix the S-400 deal, go in for the PAC-3, and permanently turn Russia into an enemy.

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Rakesh » 24 Jun 2018 02:33

COMCASA: India wants reliability assurance
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... n=ETTWMain

India has asked the United States for a binding assurance in the Communications Compatibility and Security Agreement (COMCASA) to ensure that the secured communication equipment covered by the pact are available to India and kept operational at all times. ET has gathered that broadly, both sides have made healthy progress, including on end user monitoring issues, in their first formal round of negotiations on this key foundational agreement. The US also handed over the template for Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement (BECA), the other foundation agreement. In the COMCASA, New Delhi has sought some India specific assurances to be built into the agreement. This could prolong negotiations as India is unlikely to settle for just a political assurance, making it a tough task to conclude the pact ahead of the India-US 2+2 meeting in the first week of July, though both sides continue to work overtime. Both external affairs minister Sushma Swaraj and defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman will be together on this dialogue with their US counterparts. Besides availability of equipment at all times, India wants it put down in the agreement that the US will not share data from Indian platforms with another country and nor will it access this data without prior permission. Also, the choice to upgrade would rest with India and not determined by the US.

But India, sources said, has told the US delegation led by US deputy assistant secretary of Defence Joe Felter that it would want these
assurances as legally binding elements in the agreement. Washington will now work on details and revert. The COMCASA will allow both sides to operate on the same communication systems, enabling an “interoperable” environment for militaries. Without this agreement, the US cannot part with highly coded communication equipment with the military platforms they sell to India. As a result, India has had to depend on commercially available less secure systems on, otherwise, high end platforms like C-130Js and the P-8I maritime surveillance aircraft, among others. The latest issue has been with obtaining the armed version of the Sea Guardian drones. Washington has made it clear that for it to part with the weapon systems on the drone, India will need to sign the COMCASA so that data and communication systems can be duly installed. The COMCASA is necessitated by the US to ensure that the security of the communication equipment it provides is not compromised. As it works, US forces can plug into these systems during joint action or exercises, which also makes them vulnerable in case equipment with any of the partner countries is mishandled. Due to this, an end use inspection system has also been put in place. The 2+2 dialogue will see both sides discuss, among other issues, the US approach on India’s military cooperation with Russia and the deal for the S-400 missile defence system.

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Rakesh » 24 Jun 2018 02:37

Crucial defence agreement with US within reach
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2018/06/ ... th-us.html

A key defence agreement with the United States (US) that India once staunchly opposed, is now tantalizingly within reach. After three days of intensive negotiations in New Delhi, from Monday to Wednesday, only three points of disagreement remain in finalizing the Communications Compatibility and Security Agreement (COMCASA), which will allow the US to transfer highly secure communications equipment to India. Top defence ministry sources say negotiations were conducted with unusual purpose, with both sides hoping the agreement could be announced at the inaugural “2+2” US-India dialogue on July 6, when Foreign Minister Sushma Swaraj and Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman will jointly meet their American counterparts, Mike Pompeo and Jim Mattis. However, agreement on those three points remains elusive and at least one more round of negotiations would be required. A key part of the dispute relates to “sovereignty issues”, including visits by US inspectors to Indian bases where the COMCASA-safeguarded equipment is deployed.

Business Standard learns that the proposals India provided to break the deadlock are being taken back by the US legal negotiating team to Washington, for legal vetting. Similar issues led to a decade of Indian resistance to signing the Communication & Information Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA) – as the agreement was earlier named. Since India objected to signing a blanket agreement like CISMOA, which several other countries had signed, its name was changed to COMCASA to convey an India-specific nature. For similar reasons, India also resisted two other agreements that the US regards as “foundational” for a viable defence partnership. Eventually, in August 2016, the US and India signed the Logistics Exchange Memorandum of Agreement (LEMOA), which allows both countries’ militaries to replenish from the other’s bases and facilities, subject to permission. India has no similar agreement with any other country, not even Russia. Negotiations on the third agreement, termed Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement for Geo-spatial Cooperation (BECA), will follow COMCASA, say defence ministry sources.

Without COMCASA, the US has been legally obliged to supply India weaponry equipped with commercially available communications systems in place of the more capable equipment safeguarded by COMCASA. When the Indian Navy bought the P-8I maritime aircraft, Boeing supplied it without CISMOA-safeguarded voice and data channels --- called Data Link-11 and Link-16 --- through which the P-8I alerts friendly naval forces about enemy submarines. The absence of these links prevents the generation of a Common Tactical Picture with partner navies that operate over CISMOA-protected links. The non-availability of Link-16 also prevents Indian fighter aircraft from generating a “common air picture” with friendly air forces. Non-signature of CISMOA also denies India precision Global Positioning System (GPS) gear, and state-of-the-art guidance for the Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM) that the air force is procuring for its fighter aircraft. Finally, unless COMCASA is signed soon, the 15 Chinook CH-47F helicopters that Boeing is building for India in Philadelphia will have less sophisticated navigation and radio equipment than US Army Chinooks.

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby kit » 24 Jun 2018 03:08

Rakesh wrote:Crucial defence agreement with US within reach
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2018/06/ ... th-us.html

Non-signature of CISMOA also denies India precision Global Positioning System (GPS) gear, and state-of-the-art guidance for the Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM) that the air force is procuring for its fighter aircraft.

DDM ? :-?

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Rakesh » 24 Jun 2018 21:00

Rakesh wrote:COMCASA: India wants reliability assurance
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... n=ETTWMain

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1010748779748839424 ---> The entire message flow under the terms of CISMOA/COMCASA for interoperability is controlled by the United States. No technology for the COMSEC equipment is shared.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1010751370809495552 ---> The other problem is, once somebody signs something like COMCASA/CISMOA, the Americans start insisting on its early implementation. Also like in South Korea, they start pushing for the wholesale import & implementation of their own Command & control system in the counterparty.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1010752205295706112 ---> COMCASA/CISMOA is meant for countries that have to depend on the United States for their security and thereby become a part of the US led alliance architecture. It also paves the way for more American arms imports.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1010755575829975041 ---> Last time when I opposed LEMOA, a set of ignorant/motivated f***s who get by just because they pretend to be loyal to the BJP, started a slander campaign against me. Be clear, CISMOA/COMCASA is not a 'party issue'. National security is NOT about politics.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1010757144185069568 ---> Why is it that America today thinks it can ask India to choose between it or Russia via things like CAATSA? It is because of LEMOA which gave the sense that they had their foot in the door.If India signs COMCASA they will become even more confident about eroding India's autonomy.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1010903022631882752 ---> For those who want to get a sense of what COMCASA will entail, read the text of the US-South Korea CISMOA. Despite the rebadging from CISMOA to COMCASA, the basic template and *agenda* of this agreement will be the same. (https://t.co/NuFIvGx0zq)

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Rakesh » 26 Jun 2018 05:14

India-US strategic partnership set for new high with deals and drills
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 725024.cms

The strategic clinch with the US is set to get even tighter, with India signaling its readiness to ink two more bilateral military pacts, procure helicopters worth $3 billion and participate in a joint tri-Service amphibious exercise for the first time. Top government sources say “substantial progress” has now been made towards finalizing the Communications, Compatibility and Security Arrangement (COMCASA)+ and the Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement for Geo-Spatial Cooperation (BECA) between the two countries. The previous UPA regime had stonewalled all attempts by the US to push for the inking of the three so-called “foundational military agreements” during its 10-year tenure on the ground that it would “compromise the strategic autonomy” of India. But the NDA government went ahead and inked the first one on reciprocal logistics support -- Logistics Exchange Memorandum of Agreement (LEMOA) — with India-specific safeguards in 2016. Now, the stage is being set for the other two, COMCASA and BECA, which the US contends will allow India more access to advanced military technologies and platforms with encrypted communications like Predator-B and MQ-9 Reaper drones, as was earlier reported by TOI. (Is this true?)

“The broad contours of COMCASA have been finalized…only some text-based negotiations are left. The BECA draft is also under discussion. We have insisted on India-specific assurances, much like what was done in LEMOA, and a status on par with its closest allies,” said a source. This comes ahead of the first India-US “two-plus-two” dialogue between foreign minister Sushma Swaraj and defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman with their American counterparts, Mike Pompeo and Jim Mattis, in Washington on July 6. Sources say the two countries have also decided to hold their first-ever mega tri-Service amphibious exercise to supplement the flurry of wargames they already hold every year from the top-notch naval Malabar (with Japan as the third participant) to the counter-terror Vajra Prahar and Yudh Abhyas between their armies. This will be only the second time India will deploy assets and manpower from its Army, Navy and IAF together for an exercise with a foreign country, after the Indra wargames were held with Russia at Vladivostok last year.

The US, of course, remains keen to make further inroads into the lucrative Indian arms market, having already bagged deals worth $15 billion over the last decade. While the US hard-sell to set up a F/A-18 “Super Hornet” or a F-16 fighter production line in India in still in a preliminary stage, India has virtually finalized the acquisition of six more Boeing Apache attack helicopters for $930 million and 24 Sikorsky S-70B multi-role naval choppers with potent anti-submarine warfare capabilities for around $2 billion. The IAF, incidentally, is slated to induct 12 Apache attack helicopters and 15 Chinook heavy-lift choppers in the 2019-2020 timeframe under the contracts inked for them, worth Rs 13,952 crore and Rs 8,048 crore respectively, in September 2015. India, however, remains miffed about the new US sanctions regime called CAATSA (Countering America’s Adversaries through Sanction Act) that targets countries buying weapon systems from Russia. As reported earlier by TOI, India and Russia are working to get around CAATSA because they have new defence projects worth over $12 billion hanging in the balance as well as the operational need to maintain the huge inventory of Russian-origin equipment held by the Indian armed forces.

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby dinesha » 26 Jun 2018 14:44

Friendly fire: The curious case of US sanctions on India
http://thehill.com/opinion/internationa ... s-on-india
Determined to punish Russia for interfering in the 2016 U.S. presidential election, last August Congress passed the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA). The bipartisan legislation requires the president to sanction foreign and domestic entities doing business with Russia’s defense and intelligence sectors.

Congress’s intentions were noble. Russia should pay a price for meddling in America’s democratic process. Unfortunately, the way CAATSA was drafted it threatens to penalize not just Russia, but India and the promising U.S.-India partnership as well. That is, unless lawmakers move quickly to forestall this misguided burst of friendly fire.

CAATSA orders the president to sanction any person who engages in a “significant transaction” (left undefined) with Russia’s defense or intelligence establishment. The president must impose “five or more” sanctions per individual, drawing from a list of potential actions that includes: prohibiting government loans or grants over $10 million, opposing loans from international financial institutions, blocking assets, and revoking visas.


Peculiarly, it appears the bill’s drafters never foresaw that key American partners like India were likely to be ensnared in CAATSA sanctions. Nor did they envision that even the threat of sanctions might pollute the diplomatic atmosphere or threaten some of the goodwill built with the government of Prime Minister Narendra Modi over the past four years.

Like Vietnam, another Indo-Pacific country the U.S. has been courting, India still relies heavily on Russia for defense hardware. Much of its legacy military platforms are of Soviet origin, requiring costly maintenance and upkeep. New Delhi also continues to pursue new arms deals with Moscow, including a pending multibillion-dollar deal for advanced S-400 air defense systems.

Since the end of the Cold War India has come a long way toward diversifying its defense suppliers, with the U.S. serving as the principal beneficiary. Over the past decade India has purchased roughly $15 billion in U.S. defense equipment. According to the SIPRI database, from 2008 to 2012 Russia provided 79% of India’s arms imports while the U.S. accounted for only 2.7%. Over the next five-year period, Russia’s share plunged to 62%, while America’s share grew over five-fold to 15%.

India should be encouraged to continue weaning itself off Russian hardware. But no credible expert thinks it’s reasonable to demand that India halt defense trade with Russia immediately and indefinitely. None believes India could do so without seriously undermining its national security.

Recognizing this, Defense Secretary James Mattis sought a traditional national security waiver from Congress that would have given the administration some strategic flexibility with India on CAATSA sanctions. The request was denied. As Capitol Hill aides confide, the legislation was written in a manner specifically designed to “tie the hands of the administration” on Russia sanctions. The bar for any waiver or delay was set particularly high.

CAATSA does allow for a presidential waiver, subject to congressional review but the terms are too onerous to be meaningful. Among other things the president must certify “the government of the Russian Federation has made significant efforts to reduce the number and intensity of cyber intrusions conducted by the government.” In other words, likely a non-starter.

CAATSA also contains a renewable six-month delay provision (not subject to congressional review) that the president can exercise if he or she can certify the target of sanctions is “substantially reducing the number of significant transactions” with Russia’s defense and intelligence sectors. However, “substantial reduction” is undefined and a cycle of continuous delays could ensure the subject remains a recurring bilateral irritant.

Finally, the president may terminate sanctions if they notify Congress: (1) the person is no longer engaging in the sanctionable activity or has taken significant verifiable steps toward stopping the activity, and (2) they have received reliable assurances that the person will not knowingly engage in similar activity in the future. India’s geopolitical sensibilities and the reality of its defense profile and requirements make such reassurances unlikely.

Ultimately, these are sub-optimal solutions for a problem that Congress admits it never wanted. For over a decade Washington has been trying to convince Delhi to shed the constraints of its Non-Alignment past—to persuade it that a partnership with America would in no way erode its prized autonomy and independence. For the most part, the U.S. has backed that pledge with action, carving out a panoply of special exemptions for India and demonstrating flexibility when their interests have diverged.

CAATSA risks undermining these long-term efforts at trust-building. Indeed, the very discussion surrounding these sanctions has already provided American skeptics in Delhi ample ammunition, while offering Russia a convenient narrative about America’s capriciousness. The more Delhi fears it can be subjected to U.S. sanctions randomly and haphazardly, the more it will view the U.S. as an unreliable defense partner.

There’s at least one potential legislative remedy in sight. Even as the administration continues to push for a traditional national security waiver, the House version of the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) contains an amendment that would expand the president’s flexibility to apply (or not apply) CAATSA sanctions. An attempt to insert a different fix in the Senate version of the NDAA failed. Legislators will now have to reconcile the two bills in conference committee. While contemplating the House amendment and additional legislative remedies, Congress should carefully consider the geopolitical stakes and the tremendous investments Washington and Delhi have made in this relationship.

Punishing Russia for its electoral chicanery makes a great deal of sense. CAATSA, by contrast, could end up punishing a key U.S. partner while handing Russia an unexpected victory. At a time Delhi and Moscow have grown increasingly estranged, Russia would like nothing more than to drive a wedge between the two democracies. Congress, the ball is in your court.


Jeff M. Smith is a research fellow at The Heritage Foundation; Bharath Gopalswamy is the Director of the South Asia Center at the Atlantic Council

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Philip » 26 Jun 2018 19:16

Unless there is an exception to the rule for India, CAASTA will be an albatross around the Indo- US strategic relationship.There has been a huge investment in the relationship but the Indo-Russian relationship is far more valuable and important.All our fro rlines weaponry and advanced systems in the works like SSBNs, BMos, MKIs,etc. would be impossible without Russia. The S-400s, critical for our AIM defence against China and Pak cannot be sacrificed for a vassalrelationship with the US.It is a mystery why the current regime is tilting so heavily in the direction of the US when even on the trade front the US is indifferent to the effect of its restrictive trade practices against India.

India is actually in a position of strength vis-a-vis the US who need us far more than we need it China specific. As said before, our diplomacy should pro-actively pursue a Pax Indica for the IOR and ASEAN/ ICS region, drawing together states like Indonesia, Malaysia, S.Africa, Vietnam, the Philippines, etc., into a security apparatus.We must also energise our ties with China.It is absurd that China can build up Pak into an anti- Indian nuclear power while India cannot pursue a 2- China policy.

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby chetak » 26 Jun 2018 20:39

Rakesh wrote:Crucial defence agreement with US within reach
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2018/06/ ... th-us.html

A key defence agreement with the United States (US) that India once staunchly opposed, is now tantalizingly within reach. After three days of intensive negotiations in New Delhi, from Monday to Wednesday, only three points of disagreement remain in finalizing the Communications Compatibility and Security Agreement (COMCASA), which will allow the US to transfer highly secure communications equipment to India. Top defence ministry sources say negotiations were conducted with unusual purpose, with both sides hoping the agreement could be announced at the inaugural “2+2” US-India dialogue on July 6, when Foreign Minister Sushma Swaraj and Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman will jointly meet their American counterparts, Mike Pompeo and Jim Mattis. However, agreement on those three points remains elusive and at least one more round of negotiations would be required. A key part of the dispute relates to “sovereignty issues”, including visits by US inspectors to Indian bases where the COMCASA-safeguarded equipment is deployed.

Business Standard learns that the proposals India provided to break the deadlock are being taken back by the US legal negotiating team to Washington, for legal vetting. Similar issues led to a decade of Indian resistance to signing the Communication & Information Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA) – as the agreement was earlier named. Since India objected to signing a blanket agreement like CISMOA, which several other countries had signed, its name was changed to COMCASA to convey an India-specific nature. For similar reasons, India also resisted two other agreements that the US regards as “foundational” for a viable defence partnership. Eventually, in August 2016, the US and India signed the Logistics Exchange Memorandum of Agreement (LEMOA), which allows both countries’ militaries to replenish from the other’s bases and facilities, subject to permission. India has no similar agreement with any other country, not even Russia. Negotiations on the third agreement, termed Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement for Geo-spatial Cooperation (BECA), will follow COMCASA, say defence ministry sources.

Without COMCASA, the US has been legally obliged to supply India weaponry equipped with commercially available communications systems in place of the more capable equipment safeguarded by COMCASA. When the Indian Navy bought the P-8I maritime aircraft, Boeing supplied it without CISMOA-safeguarded voice and data channels --- called Data Link-11 and Link-16 --- through which the P-8I alerts friendly naval forces about enemy submarines. The absence of these links prevents the generation of a Common Tactical Picture with partner navies that operate over CISMOA-protected links. The non-availability of Link-16 also prevents Indian fighter aircraft from generating a “common air picture” with friendly air forces. Non-signature of CISMOA also denies India precision Global Positioning System (GPS) gear, and state-of-the-art guidance for the Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM) that the air force is procuring for its fighter aircraft. Finally, unless COMCASA is signed soon, the 15 Chinook CH-47F helicopters that Boeing is building for India in Philadelphia will have less sophisticated navigation and radio equipment than US Army Chinooks.


We are openly and honestly buying this equipment to fight our battles. Unlike the pakis who are "buying" US funded fighters and warships to fight "terrorists".

I do not see a situation where the US will actually help us in a shooting war nor vice versa.

The use of mil precision GPS from the US for our guidance and nav systems is a crock of schitt. Mission critical stuff like this should be totally under Indian control so its best to use our own satellites for GPS purposes.

The US can and will turn off the GPS over India as and when they damn well please just like they turned it off in cashmere during the kargil incursions to impede our air ops against their friends, the pakis.

What about our Su, AN-32s, our ruski AWACS and Jags and other assets?? Will they also be retrofitted with ameriki mil grade GPS receivers??

Will the amerikis allow us the luxury of precision targeting using their satellites?? One wonders.

COMCASA is a trap and is meant to benefit them and not us.

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Austin » 26 Jun 2018 22:39

When the Indian Navy bought the P-8I maritime aircraft, Boeing supplied it without CISMOA-safeguarded voice and data channels --- called Data Link-11 and Link-16 --- through which the P-8I alerts friendly naval forces about enemy submarines.


Link-11 and 16 are using withing NATO forces for interoperability , India has no use for it as it used its own Data Link ODL . How would Link-16 and 11 on P-8I will communicate with Indian Subs , Ships and other assets if these assets doing have an idential Link-11/16 data link.

Which chutiya writes such article without understanding how Indian system interoperate and selling us the virtue of opting for CISMOA-safeguarded voice and data channels Link 11 and 16 :rotfl:

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Kakarat » 26 Jun 2018 22:39

Thats the Advantage for US of being a weapons exporter and system (GPS) owner. Our problems are our headache and not theirs, so they can switch on or off as they please

We can have control of only what we develop and is under our control so the best way forward is self reliance and developing our own critical technology. As for GPS is concerned NavIC should be developed/deployed to cover our area of interest and friends if necessary

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby KrishnaK » 26 Jun 2018 23:57

Austin wrote:
When the Indian Navy bought the P-8I maritime aircraft, Boeing supplied it without CISMOA-safeguarded voice and data channels --- called Data Link-11 and Link-16 --- through which the P-8I alerts friendly naval forces about enemy submarines.


Link-11 and 16 are using withing NATO forces for interoperability , India has no use for it as it used its own Data Link ODL . How would Link-16 and 11 on P-8I will communicate with Indian Subs , Ships and other assets if these assets doing have an idential Link-11/16 data link.

Which chutiya writes such article without understanding how Indian system interoperate and selling us the virtue of opting for CISMOA-safeguarded voice and data channels Link 11 and 16 :rotfl:
The author understands exactly what he's writing about. The question simply is, does India need interoperability with US and its allies in the foreseeable future or not at all.

When the Indian Navy bought the P-8I maritime aircraft, Boeing supplied it without CISMOA-safeguarded voice and data channels --- called Data Link-11 and Link-16 --- through which the P-8I alerts friendly naval forces about enemy submarines. The absence of these links prevents the generation of a Common Tactical Picture with partner navies that operate over CISMOA-protected links. The non-availability of Link-16 also prevents Indian fighter aircraft from generating a “common air picture” with friendly air forces.


Looks like the current dispensation is at least considering it seriously. By making the political decision (the main hurdle is the political decision) to build up its capacity to interoperate with US and its allies, India sends a very clear signal to Beijing. You can build up the capacity and not use it, but China will still have to factor it in its calculations.

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Rakesh » 27 Jun 2018 01:08

Russian sanctions to dominate 2+2 talks
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/r ... 264718.ece

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Rakesh » 27 Jun 2018 01:09

COMCASA: Why US, India can’t connect
https://indianexpress.com/article/expla ... t-5234691/

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Philip » 27 Jun 2018 10:14

Our stated goal is independence as far as possible, replacing even systems from " old friend" Russia to reduce dependence as far as possible.BMos desi seeker an example.Therefore it is an achronism to want to become " joined at the hip", or more accurately the backside of Uncle Sam and his posse against China. We lose automatically whatever strategic independence we have achieved. Secondly the huge cost and onerous task of replacing all our exg. eqpt of Sov./ Ru origin and by that dumping approx 70% of our commns. and other eqpt. is an asinine thought, worthy of one MB Tughlak!

One is sure that a method can be worked out for any bluntness envisaged as we've been exercisingcwith the US for almost 2 decades now.How have we been communicating thus far? Using smoke signals like " Injuns" what? :D

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Cain Marko » 27 Jun 2018 16:01

The latest is that US wants India to reduce it's oil purchases from Iran by November to"zero" otherwise sanctions are a given.

Wow. 2+2 is going to be hot.

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby arshyam » 27 Jun 2018 17:30

I think these are all trial balloons to put our "two" on the defensive before coming to the talks. I just hope uncle has factored in having to talk to two Bharatiya naaris. Plus it's two 'uncles' on the other side :lol:

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Austin » 27 Jun 2018 19:23

Cain Marko wrote:The latest is that US wants India to reduce it's oil purchases from Iran by November to"zero" otherwise sanctions are a given.

Wow. 2+2 is going to be hot.


Not just india but any one buying oil from Iran , this is like
Gun point diplomacy , do or else types and just because the new guy does not like previous administrations signed jcpoa

Reminds me of Ravan who had too much pride of his power and that lead to its downfall , this another Ravan in being

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Austin » 27 Jun 2018 23:12

US Postpones High-Level Dialogue With India Due To "Unavoidable Reasons

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/us-post ... rpush=true

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Austin » 28 Jun 2018 00:03

Sandeep
‏ @SandeepUnnithan

2X2 postponement now making sense. This India-specific CAATSA waiver inserted when it was presented before the House last month, missing from the NDAA passed by Senate last week. (emphasis mine) Anti-Russia lobby on The Hill prevail. An Indian S-400 buy = US sanctions.

Image

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Re: CAATSA .. An Oxymoron ?

Postby Rakesh » 28 Jun 2018 03:18

I really hope the US imposes sanctions. Please do it!


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