Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

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Aditya_V
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 25 Feb 2019 11:38

kit wrote:Defence Ministry approves torpedo acquisition for Naval submarines
https://www.bignewsnetwork.com/news/259641150/defence-ministry-approves-torpedo-acquisition-for-naval-submarines


The article is very short on details

As per the details of the project, the immediate requirement of the Navy for heavyweight torpedoes will be met by the acquisition to be made through the foreign vendors while the long-term bulk requirement will be fulfilled through the Made in India route.


So we are buying limited number of say Altas Electronik or thales torpedos and submarine version of Varunastra will have Nato compliant 533mm by 21 feet torpedo in addition to Russian size of 533mm and 24 feet length?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby arun » 03 Mar 2019 11:28

Looks like the long drawn out saga of the Indian Navy to acquire 3 Cadet Training Ships following the collapse of ABG Shipyards Ltd who had won the contract in June 2011 for 2 vessels and in December 2011 for 1 vessel only to have contract cancelled for non-performance, may be coming to an end.

DAC grants approval for purchase of defence equipment worth Rs 2,700 cr

Request for Information (RFI) for construction of three Cadet Training Ships (CTS) for Indian Navy dating to April 2018 has technical details:

RFI for Construction of Three Cadet Training Ships (CTS) for Indian Navy

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby chetak » 03 Mar 2019 17:01

twitter

Someone asked navy, IA did Surgical Strikes.. IAF did Air Strikes.. what is navy doing?

He said last time IN went2 war .. Karachi was burning & Bangladesh was born. So, let us continue with our routine work. Because, the day we decide to attack... Maps will again change..

8:32 pm - 2 Mar 2019 From Itanagar, India
:)

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Singha » 04 Mar 2019 10:29

help for our new SSN program may be part n parcel of this 'lease' deal

Image

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Austin » 04 Mar 2019 10:43

We would rather lease or build Yasen class SSN with VLS capability

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Singha » 04 Mar 2019 11:13

RuS does not have spare capacity for yasen i think...they are busy shoring up their own declining numbers with yasen2 and future husky.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Karthik S » 04 Mar 2019 15:18

Any updates on INS Vizag? Are we still waiting on gas turbines from Ukraine?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Austin » 05 Mar 2019 15:16

Video released by PN of IN Submarine near Pakistan but in Intl waters

https://twitter.com/ShivAroor/status/11 ... 7426172928

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Austin » 05 Mar 2019 15:17

The IR image gives me the impression of it being HDW Type 209 submarine , Could be Fake news too of PN own submarine Agusta class during some exercise

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby JTull » 05 Mar 2019 15:44

That P-3 is operating too far from the shores. Perhaps it's time it met with an accident! i.e., accidentally met our MKIs.

Even though Pakis have got part of their airspace open, our Mig-29Ks and Su-30MKIs should pay a visit to half a dozen of their international flights over Arabian sea. That'll spook anyone still willing to fly.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby srin » 05 Mar 2019 15:54

^^^ I wonder what happens if we shoot a P-3 down in Arabian sea and then *deny* it. No ech-and-dee problem, so we can do whatever we like. I'll write up a longish post on the main Balakot thread, but I'm getting really delighted with the idea that as long as we don't give them an ech-and-dee problem, we can do whatever we like.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Kakarat » 05 Mar 2019 16:41

https://twitter.com/kakarat2001/status/ ... 2463760384
My views on the video released by Pakistan on Indian submarine based on the image from @ShivAroor. By comparing it with images of INS Kalvari & Agosta it implies that the sub in the video is Pakistani

Image

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Austin » 05 Mar 2019 17:40

One give away is Submarine would patrol with their Mast on which has ESM and other EW equipment plus periscope.

Subs usually come to know about the presense of Patrol aircraft from long distance either due to Sound these aircraft emit or their ESM catches some enemy signal and would quickly dive to below 50 m .

No sub captain worth its salt would continue to sail at PD with all the equipment with a Patrol Aircrat over them .

This is clearly fake stuff the kind of thing only ISPR can spin

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Pratyush » 05 Mar 2019 21:08

What is this drama. A sub in international waters cannot be forced to surface or change course.

If the Indian Navy sub is surfaced it's because it wants to be. Not because the Pakistanis forced to.

Cause if they forced, then the IN will have its way with the TSPN. no one can save them.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby manjgu » 05 Mar 2019 21:19

all these vids are for porki domenstic consumption... all ur logic about international waters.. change course is lost on the ordinary unwashed jihadi abdul.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Rakesh » 06 Mar 2019 00:05

Pakistan Spooked By Indian Scorpene-Class Submarine On 1st Op Deployment?
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2019/03 ... yment.html

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Austin » 07 Mar 2019 08:42

The first photos of the Indian ship measuring complex VC-11184

The first photos of the Indian ship measuring complex VC-11184, being built at the shipyard Hindustan Shipyard Ltd (HSL) in Vishakhapatnam. It is reported that as of January 2019, the ship is 90% ready and will be put to sea trials this year.

The ship with a displacement of 15,000 tons and a length of 175 meters was laid in October 2014 and is designed to remove telemetric information from the tested Indian ballistic missiles, and can also be used as a command post for managing naval groups.



Image
Image

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Barath » 07 Mar 2019 17:38

Austin wrote:We would rather lease or build Yasen class SSN with VLS capability


India already requested that and Russian navy already rejected it. They do not have sufficient capacity or a number of Yasens for themselves., especially once all those soviet era subs come due for scrap or deep modernization.

Russia has proposed to provide design consultancy for joint development of a submarine for $200 million along with India

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 877908.cms

India has to be careful.

Kazan is already the most expensive submarine in the world at $4 billion.
And not all Russian designs are successful. If I recall correctly Rubin bureau''s designfor next phase of Boreii (SSBN) was rejected in the last year or so by the russian govt (as too expensive). So you might have to check the Russian/joint design for production cost also...

And buying via RFP route calls for immediate spend of $2b (20% of cost), which the government does not have to spare in pre-election time.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Singha » 07 Mar 2019 18:19

we need a quiet small reasonably fast SSN that CinC can use in all situations from a hot peace to a full on war.
it should not be so costly and complex and heavily armed that merely slipping out of its moorings becomes an "event"
the yasens with their gigantic array of 32-40 missiles upto 5000km in range are overkill for our needs.

a 6500t old school "fast attack sub" with perhaps 5-10 UVLS mag for nirbhay/brahmos and 20 heavy torps is plenty for us. a kind of 688I-mki ;)

needs to be good in shallow water.... east asia is full of shallow water and reefs.

needs the whole shindig of sail and chin mounted high freq mine avoidance sonar...

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Rakesh » 08 Mar 2019 18:52

This is a big relief. Never get into any military alliance with any nation, especially the US. Work with all, but no alliances please.

US Commander Hints That Quad Grouping With India, Japan and Australia May be Shelved
https://www.news18.com/news/world/us-co ... 59871.html

A US military commander suggested Thursday that a loose security grouping of his country, Japan, Australia and India, also known as the quad, may be shelved for now. Admiral Phil Davidson, who heads the US Indo-Pacific Command, said he was on a panel with the other navy chiefs at the Raisina Dialogue, a multilateral conference in New Delhi in January. Davidson said the issue came up "several times" but Indian navy chief Admiral Sunil Lanba "made it quite clear that there wasn't an immediate potential for a quad."

"That does not omit or prevent our ability to cooperate in crisis and conflict. And we continue collectively, all of us, to seek opportunities in which we might exercise and work together moving forward," he added. Davidson was asked if the quad was relevant to his country's vision of a free and open Indo-Pacific region, which was the central theme of his lecture in Singapore. The US and the other three countries had come together to provide humanitarian assistance after the Indian Ocean tsunami in 2004. Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe then suggested they form the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue, which met three years later.

The meetings stopped for a decade after China formally reached out to each country to seek information on the meetings' purpose. The quad met again in 2017. India's ministry of external affairs said they addressed "issues of common interest" such as terrorism and "proliferation linkages impacting the region." While members have said the grouping is not in opposition to China, it is viewed as a counterbalance to Beijing's rising influence in Indo-Pacific. India had stressed in the past that the quad was not a military grouping. Lanba noted at January's conference that the Chinese navy had added 80 ships in the last five years, according to Indian media.

The US is also keeping a close watch on North Korea following reported activity at a rocket launch site. Davidson told reporters earlier Thursday that he was committed to maintaining UN sanctions against North Korea and a "readiness of our forces there." He added that he was working with countries including South Korea, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and France to catch any sanctions breaches via methods such as ship-to-ship transfers. "Many of those nations will contribute either maritime patrol aircraft or ships later this year," he said.

On Wednesday, foreign experts and a South Korean lawmaker who was briefed by Seoul's spy service said North Korea was restoring facilities at a long-range rocket launch site that it dismantled last year as part of disarmament steps. Satellite photos taken on various dates showed new activity at the Tongchang-ri launch site, northwest of Pyongyang. The reports surfaced less than a week after President Donald Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un met in Vietnam but failed to reach any agreement on the North's nuclear programme. Davidson also addressed recent comments by Philippine defense secretary Delfin Lorenzana, who called for a review of a 1951 Mutual Defense Treaty with Washington to prevent the Philippines from being dragged into a "shooting war" in the South China Sea.

China is pitted against the Philippines and other Southeast Asian countries in multiple territorial disputes in the waters, which are crucial for global commerce and rich in fish and potential oil and gas reserves. The treaty calls on the US and the Philippines to come to each other's defense against an external attack. "I should note that the Philippines relies heavily on the freedom of the seas and the South China Sea especially," Davidson said. He added that he takes the treaty "quite seriously" and that the US Embassy was in contact with the Philippines regarding the matter. Davidson took command of around 380,000 civilian and military personnel in the region last April.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby kit » 09 Mar 2019 00:15

Rakesh wrote:This is a big relief. Never get into any military alliance with any nation, especially the US. Work with all, but no alliances please.

US Commander Hints That Quad Grouping With India, Japan and Australia May be Shelved
https://www.news18.com/news/world/us-co ... 59871.html


all the instruments of an alliance are in place , whats the use of advertising it

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby chola » 09 Mar 2019 16:24

We are so wealthy onlee. Over $4B in "leases" of subs. $10B in russki weapons in past 4 months alone and aggravating ties with UNkil.

What we cannot do with such money in our own programs.

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/india-inks-over-3-billion-deal-with-russia-for-nuclear-submarine-despite-the-threat-of-us-sanctions/articleshow/68308925.cms


India inks over $3 billion deal with Russia for nuclear submarine despite the threat of US sanctions

Rajat Pandit | TNN | Updated: Mar 8, 2019, 12:08 IST


NEW DELHI: India on Thursday inked yet another mega defence deal worth over $3 billion for the lease of a nuclear-powered attack submarine from Russia, despite the threat of US financial sanctions still looming over the earlier $5.4 billion contract inked for Russian S-400 Triumf missile systems in October last year.

Defence sources said the over $3 billion (around Rs 21,000 crore) contract for the Akula-1 class submarine, which will be ready by around 2025, includes a comprehensive package for refurbishment of the nuclear boat lying mothballed at Severodvinsk, its sustenance and spares support for 10 years, as well as training and technical infrastructure for its operations.

This submarine will replace INS Chakra, the Akula class submarine taken on a 10-year lease from Russia in April 2012, under a secret over $900 million deal inked way back in January 2004.



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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby yensoy » 09 Mar 2019 16:45

It's over many years. It is credible deterrence. It provides a training platform and understanding of best practices from a system which is more advanced than ours in the nuclear weapons area. We will learn and we will build our own, in good time, once our SSBN project is done. I think it is money well spent.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby chola » 09 Mar 2019 16:57

yensoy wrote:It's over many years. It is credible deterrence. It provides a training platform and understanding of best practices from a system which is more advanced than ours in the nuclear weapons area. We will learn and we will build our own, in good time, once our SSBN project is done. I think it is money well spent.


Deter who? This is like buying a golden hammer to use against two fleas (TSP and rump forces of PLA in IOR) and starving the kids.

This is like the recent AG proclaiming we need the Rafale when the IAF just clobbered the top Paki fighter with a MiG-21 and we have 230 SU-30MKIs far better than anything else TSP has.

I'm sorry but we are practically unassailable as a military power right now. What we need is a MIC not more gold plated gora weapons to add to a monstrously powerful conventional armory.

That nuke sub will not prevent Paki from sending terrorists. I much rather spend that $3B on our own SSNs.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Prem » 10 Mar 2019 02:59

yensoy wrote:It's over many years. It is credible deterrence. It provides a training platform and understanding of best practices from a system which is more advanced than ours in the nuclear weapons area. We will learn and we will build our own, in good time, once our SSBN project is done. I think it is money well spent.


This is Guru Dakshina while keeping the Thumb intact . Massa and others will demand all 5 fingers Plus Nose.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Anthony Hines » 10 Mar 2019 03:23

I have been away from these forums for several years now and on return I see the same discussions and the same views being put forth by folks supporting their favored supplier countries. It is not surprising why India will never be self reliant for its defense needs as long as this bias exists within the system.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Rakesh » 10 Mar 2019 04:12

kit wrote:
Rakesh wrote:This is a big relief. Never get into any military alliance with any nation, especially the US. Work with all, but no alliances please.

US Commander Hints That Quad Grouping With India, Japan and Australia May be Shelved
https://www.news18.com/news/world/us-co ... 59871.html


all the instruments of an alliance are in place , whats the use of advertising it

Nothing is in place kit.

Just because we signed COMCASA and got P-8Is does not make us a member of some Quad.

The Indian Navy knows fully well, that in times of conflict with China, India will be on her own. No one will come to India's aid.

That is some fantasy put forward by the American apologists on BRF and policy influencers at institutions like the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace to peddle American wares. You remember the Single Engine Fighter episode on BRF? The yarns we were being spoon fed. My, oh my! :roll:

The main speaker - as per his own admission - visits BRF very rarely now. But he may be lurking silently though :)

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby chola » 10 Mar 2019 05:12

Rakesh wrote:The Indian Navy knows fully well, that in times of conflict with China, India will be on her own. No one will come to India's aid.


There is no realistic scenario where we would need help annihilating whatever the PRC could put up in the IOR.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Austin » 10 Mar 2019 09:46

India is not in favour of any military alliance with any country much less in favour of US or Western one.

India is proud of its non-alligned status and strategic independence and it has maintained good relation with Block and non block powers over 6 decades. That is also a corner stone of our FP across all parties.

Quad or any other type bilateral ex is good for knowledge sharing and building professional relationship but cant be a basis of military coercion against 3rd country

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby MeshaVishwas » 10 Mar 2019 10:52

chola wrote:
yensoy wrote:It's over many years. It is credible deterrence. It provides a training platform and understanding of best practices from a system which is more advanced than ours in the nuclear weapons area. We will learn and we will build our own, in good time, once our SSBN project is done. I think it is money well spent.


I'm sorry but we are practically unassailable as a military power right now. What we need is a MIC not more gold plated gora weapons to add to a monstrously powerful conventional armory.

https://twitter.com/Iyervval/status/1103646769911599104?s=19
Q: why lease these submarines when they can't be used in wartime. A: unlimited range + sophisticated sensors that help us build an acoustic database of chinese submarines operating in the Indo Pacific.
Why do people ignore it's value as an intelligence gathering platform

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Manish_Sharma » 10 Mar 2019 10:56

chola wrote:We are so wealthy onlee. Over $4B in "leases" of subs. $10B in russki weapons in past 4 months alone and aggravating ties with UNkil.



Yess we must grovel to Unkil, we have only money to buy EMALS carrier and f18/f35 (although UNkill won't give nuclear propulsion that HAS TO COME FROM BAD BAD RUSSIANS)

Although DTTI is dead, UNkill has refused to impart any engine tech. The offset for C17 the airframe testing plant came totally junk and no media or party has courage to take UNkill to task.

All the UNkill platforms we buy are to be inspected by UNkill , humiliating for whole nation, but lets revel in the humiliation; after all its from UNkill.

Without Russian help we would be struggling with Arihant, but hey UNkill and Chola has decided nuclear submarines aren't for Bharat SO THATS THAT.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby chola » 10 Mar 2019 13:27

Manish_Sharma wrote:
Without Russian help we would be struggling with Arihant, but hey UNkill and Chola has decided nuclear submarines aren't for Bharat SO THATS THAT.



Nope, you conveniently left out this part:

I much rather spend that $3B on our own SSNs.


When the MOD is balking at releasing funds for IAC 2, when money is a concern for domestic projects from the Saras to Rustom to Kaveri all these billions for phoren gear makes LITTLE sense when the Indian inventory already outclasses everything in its neighborhood (including Cheen along the border and IOR) by a wide, wide, wide margin.

It is time we put those billions to domestic use. And how do you know we are struggling with Arihant. Much thanks for previous help but I rather that $3B be used to overcome whatever issues we might still have.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Singha » 10 Mar 2019 14:08

philip sir's dream...a sukanya sized ship packed to the gunwales

Image

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Austin » 10 Mar 2019 14:15

Must be the most expensive corvette in world and certainly the most capable one

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Karthik S » 10 Mar 2019 14:19

We need huge 10,000T DDGs to patrol and defend our vast ocean lines. Even small countries such as Japan and SoKo have them.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Singha » 10 Mar 2019 14:27

Tamir interceptors are more like CIWS for the odd hezbollah silkworm or c802 than anything serious.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby chola » 10 Mar 2019 14:44

Karthik S wrote:We need huge 10,000T DDGs to patrol and defend our vast ocean lines. Even small countries such as Japan and SoKo have them.


But they are the ONLY ones to have them outside of Khan and Roos! And Roos' are derelicts from the old USSR.

The P-15 and P-15B are the standard size for most of the world's large destroyers and that is around 7K tons.

That said, I would love a few 10K cruisers (like the Ticos) for our CBGs. But I rather have more 7K tonners if forced to choose because of budget. I think cruisers are too extravagant for trade routes patrol. Those are the jobs of smaller blue water vessels including frigates.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Singha » 10 Mar 2019 14:47

we can easily build a few 10K ships with higher number of SAMs once we finalize on the number and size of our bigger carriers along with induction schedule. DDGs can be built in 1/3 of the time needed for a mid sized carrier. its not a big issue.

imo we need more Kamorta (ASW) and Saryu-MKI type ships (to patrol trade routes) and lot of new submarines.

unlike surface action groups, submarines are always lurking around our shores, so ASW is also a constant game.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Thakur_B » 10 Mar 2019 17:45

The follow ons to P15b should be cruiser sized, desi Kirovs.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Singha » 10 Mar 2019 17:46

we need less of the large DDGs and much more of FFGs/OPV hulls + SSNs.


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