Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

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Aditya_V
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 26 Sep 2019 18:29

So now that our MTCR restrictions are over, it is possible our Talwars can launch 1000km LACM's? Its good for IN to have this option till Nirbhay comes along.

Given the sheer volume of CM's required by us, I would be prefer Nirbhay and Brahmos NG.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby John » 26 Sep 2019 19:22

It is possible but unlikely navy will purchase it as only Talwar class (and 2 more Admiral Grigorovich) can carry it and even then only limited to 8. i don't believe L&T VLS launcher for brahmos that is fitted in P-15A,P-15B and P-17A can handle Klub missile. It is possible the domestically built Admiral Grigorovich vessels by Goa Shipyard use L&T launchers. I remember Nirbhay used to be listed as potential armament for P-15A then P-15B but now it is no longer even being mentioned by any official sources.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Rakesh » 26 Sep 2019 19:33

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1177177251537805312 ---> Here's a photo of the soon to be commissioned Khanderi as it left MDL for its maiden sortie. Courtesy: India Navy.

Image

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Rakesh » 26 Sep 2019 19:35

https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 8175363072 ---> Short video on a dry dock at the Sea by the Indian Navy. No easy feat, to put a dry dock at sea.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby pkudva » 26 Sep 2019 22:15

What are the armaments which the Kalvari and Khanderi are equipped with.
Are they still without the much needed Torpedoes,if so it would be a fish without a teeth.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Rakesh » 26 Sep 2019 22:53

Right now, just the submarine launched version of the Exocet ant-ship missile (the SM-39). The SM-39 is also used by the Pakistan Navy's Agosta 90B boats. I am hoping the deal for new torpedoes gets sanctioned by the MoD. The F21 is a good torpedo.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 27 Sep 2019 00:37

It can also use the Torpedoes of the U 209 SUT 264 with 1 fired from the Scorpenes. I hope there is Varunastra variant which is being developed for the NATO 533mm by 21 foot length

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Vips » 27 Sep 2019 03:04

chola wrote:
Philip wrote:SoKo's latest is a larger version of its license- built U- boats. Tricky whether the Germans will allow them to export their proprietary tech.


They've already sold them to the Indonesians. It is the same Type 209 we had except it looks like they got full ToT and can export it.

It would be a kick in the nuts if we end up buying the Type 209 again -- just from Korea this time.


It is mind boggling that Korea and Germany would be both trying to sell advanced versions of the basic Type 209 to us. Korea depends on Germany for the engines to power its version of the 209. Dont know how Korea is able to guarantee supplies by overcoming the possible German objections. Hats off to the Koreans if they are able to convince the Germans to shoot themselves in the foot.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Kakarat » 27 Sep 2019 11:33

https://twitter.com/CaptDKS/status/1177398514898259968
Three landmark events viz. Commissioning of #INSKhanderi, launch of first P17A stealth frigate Nilgiri & dedication of Aircraft Carrier dry-dock to the nation at the hands of @rajnathsingh in Mumbai to be a red letter day for @indiannavy


INS Delhi undergoing upgrade
Image
Image

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby kit » 27 Sep 2019 12:47

Vips wrote:
chola wrote:
They've already sold them to the Indonesians. It is the same Type 209 we had except it looks like they got full ToT and can export it.

It would be a kick in the nuts if we end up buying the Type 209 again -- just from Korea this time.


It is mind boggling that Korea and Germany would be both trying to sell advanced versions of the basic Type 209 to us. Korea depends on Germany for the engines to power its version of the 209. Dont know how Korea is able to guarantee supplies by overcoming the possible German objections. Hats off to the Koreans if they are able to convince the Germans to shoot themselves in the foot.


Well maybe whoever is in MOD procurement needs to take lessons from the Koreans, after all didn't India import the HDWs like the Koreans did ?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby chola » 27 Sep 2019 12:53

Great picture of the new dry dock. We tend to forget how important these things are.

Look what happened to the mighty Russian navy after their floating dock, the only one able to take on a carrier, sank. It completely crippled Russian naval aviation for the foreseeable future.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby chola » 27 Sep 2019 13:01

kit wrote:
Vips wrote:
It is mind boggling that Korea and Germany would be both trying to sell advanced versions of the basic Type 209 to us. Korea depends on Germany for the engines to power its version of the 209. Dont know how Korea is able to guarantee supplies by overcoming the possible German objections. Hats off to the Koreans if they are able to convince the Germans to shoot themselves in the foot.


Well maybe whoever is in MOD procurement needs to take lessons from the Koreans, after all didn't India import the HDWs like the Koreans did ?


They did the same with their F/A-50 tie up with LockMart. It is selling around the world. In fact, it is in the running for the next gen trainer for the USAF.

It is a different negotiation strategy. For them ToT means actual transfer of technology so they can own, develop and sell the products from that technology. For us, ToT means transfer of technical skills to do local subcontracting for the duration of that order onlee.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Mollick.R » 27 Sep 2019 14:54

Explained: Navy’s New Dry Dock To Service Aircraft Carriers; How India Built This Engineering Marvel
https://swarajyamag.com/news-brief/explained-indian-navys-modern-dry-dock-to-service-aircraft-carriers-how-india-built-this-engineering-marvel

The Indian Navy is set to inaugurate its new aircraft carrier dry dock at Mumbai on 28 September.

India already had three British era dry docks but they don’t have the capacity to accommodate aircraft carrier ships like INS Vikramaditya. With the induction of the latter, a new dry dock with the enhanced capacity was required.

The construction was a mammoth task which took almost a decade’s time to complete. At 281 m long, 45 m wide and almost 17 m deep, the dry dock has a large size, and can accommodate two smaller vessels at the same time, apart from berthing the aircraft carrier. This is made possible by the three intermediate gates that can divide the dock across its length.

Costing about Rs 1,000 crore, the dry dock was built 300 m into the sea with only its head on land. First a coffer dam was built with 114 piles of steel and concrete to keep the water out, and construction was carried out on the sea bed for a 281 m long dock and the wharves on each of its sides.

Around 2.23 lakh tonnes of silt had to be removed from the site, enough to lay 90 football fields. The project required 8000 metric tonnes of steel and 5 metric tonnes of concrete, 1.5 times that used in Mumbai’s iconic Bandra-Worli sea link.

It is a modern dry-dock with high automation, and can be dewatered in less than three hours and filled back within just one and a half hour.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby kit » 27 Sep 2019 16:04

chola wrote:
kit wrote:
Well maybe whoever is in MOD procurement needs to take lessons from the Koreans, after all didn't India import the HDWs like the Koreans did ?


They did the same with their F/A-50 tie up with LockMart. It is selling around the world. In fact, it is in the running for the next gen trainer for the USAF.

It is a different negotiation strategy. For them ToT means actual transfer of technology so they can own, develop and sell the products from that technology. For us, ToT means transfer of technical skills to do local subcontracting for the duration of that order onlee.


I was actually serious :) .. Why not learn how the Koreans do their "TOT" , why not make our procurement process better ?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Karthik S » 27 Sep 2019 16:19

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1177177251537805312 ---> Here's a photo of the soon to be commissioned Khanderi as it left MDL for its maiden sortie. Courtesy: India Navy.


admiral sir, with so many merchant ships around, can any country place snooping devices on those merchant ships to get some intel: acoustic signatures for ex on new sub? Wouldn't it be better if the area is cleared of any non naval vessels?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Barath » 27 Sep 2019 17:05

https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... n-6014999/

@Chola : The FA/50 Lockmart/Korean offering lost out to the Boeing offering for T-X

Also the stakes for the dry dock (gorgeous photos!) aren't as high as in Russia. India can take their carriers to cochin. They just have to wait their turn in a private ship yard, which costs money and time. Also, the new yard isn't big enough for the Kuznetsov, so India cannot offer to service the Kuz and do unto Russia ......

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby bhavani » 27 Sep 2019 18:35

Kakarat wrote:https://twitter.com/CaptDKS/status/1177398514898259968
Three landmark events viz. Commissioning of #INSKhanderi, launch of first P17A stealth frigate Nilgiri & dedication of Aircraft Carrier dry-dock to the nation at the hands of @rajnathsingh in Mumbai to be a red letter day for @indiannavy


INS Delhi undergoing upgrade

It looks the main gun on Delhi has already been updated from the 100mm Russian gun to an OTO 76mm or is it the bigger 127mm BAe gun?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Rakesh » 27 Sep 2019 19:21

Karthik S wrote:
Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1177177251537805312 ---> Here's a photo of the soon to be commissioned Khanderi as it left MDL for its maiden sortie. Courtesy: India Navy.

admiral sir, with so many merchant ships around, can any country place snooping devices on those merchant ships to get some intel: acoustic signatures for ex on new sub? Wouldn't it be better if the area is cleared of any non naval vessels?

Please no Sir. A simple "oye" is sufficient :)

Karwar naval base is designed for that very purpose. A base solely for the Indian Navy.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Rakesh » 27 Sep 2019 19:26

bhavani wrote:
Kakarat wrote:https://twitter.com/CaptDKS/status/1177398514898259968
INS Delhi undergoing upgrade

It looks the main gun on Delhi has already been updated from the 100mm Russian gun to an OTO 76mm or is it the bigger 127mm BAe gun?

Good catch bhavani. It looks like the 127mm BAe gun. Can someone confirm please?

Here is a picture of the BAe gun from wiki. And as per wiki, 13 such guns were cleared for acquisition in 2018.

Defence ministry clears procurement proposals worth Rs 3,700 crore
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 942731.cms
27 April 2018

The DAC also approved the procurement of thirteen 127mm calibre guns from BAE Systems of the US for over Rs 3,000 crore. “These guns, which have a 24-km range that can be further extended by using ERGMs (extended range gun munitions), will be fitted on board newly- constructed warships to provide fire support and engagement of targets on the land,” he added.


The latest version, a 5-inch/62 caliber Mark 45 Mod 4, in flat-panel gun turret, test firing on USS Forrest Sherman in 2007

Image

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby titash » 27 Sep 2019 19:55

Rakesh wrote:
bhavani wrote:It looks the main gun on Delhi has already been updated from the 100mm Russian gun to an OTO 76mm or is it the bigger 127mm BAe gun?

Good catch bhavani. It looks like the 127mm BAe gun. Can someone confirm please?

Here is a picture of the BAe gun from wiki. And as per wiki, 13 such guns were cleared for acquisition in 2018.

Defence ministry clears procurement proposals worth Rs 3,700 crore
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 942731.cms
27 April 2018

The DAC also approved the procurement of thirteen 127mm calibre guns from BAE Systems of the US for over Rs 3,000 crore. “These guns, which have a 24-km range that can be further extended by using ERGMs (extended range gun munitions), will be fitted on board newly- constructed warships to provide fire support and engagement of targets on the land,” he added.


The latest version, a 5-inch/62 caliber Mark 45 Mod 4, in flat-panel gun turret, test firing on USS Forrest Sherman in 2007



How about this one? Russian 100mm stealth cupola...would be a simpler upgrade on the lines of Sthil

Image

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby John » 27 Sep 2019 22:18

^ Please read the posts from previous page it has already been discussed by tsarkar. Bigger news is the brahmos


tsarkar wrote:The drydock image has modernized Delhi class with OTO 76/62 SRGM mount and Brahmos inclined launchers.


Tsarkar is that gun from INS Kolkata? It looks like Kolkata is being refitted with 127mm gun.

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/117 ... 05377?s=21

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby maz » 28 Sep 2019 01:05

As tsarkar said, the new gun is a 76mm SRGM. To add to his post, most of the Russian origin weapon and sensor kit as well as fire ocntrol sytems are being replaced by home built kits. For now, it seems that the single arm SAM launcher is still in place but this could change in the near future if replacements for the Kashmir 'articles' are installed. In addition, there are similar updates and improvements to the engineering systems and hull systems. The post Mid Life Update (MLU) incarnation of the Delhi will be quite different from its pre MLU incarnation.

Let us hope that new pix of the Delhi emerge after the many events scheduled for tomorrow Sep 28.

Clearly, there is a concerted effort to improve the degree of standardization and indigenization across various combatant platforms in the Fleet. Expect to see more and more Russian origin systems being replaced with indigenous equivalents as warships go in for their major refits.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Rakesh » 28 Sep 2019 01:10

Maz, so nice to see you after all this while. Hope you are doing well.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby tsarkar » 28 Sep 2019 01:35

John wrote:Tsarkar is that gun from INS Kolkata? It looks like Kolkata is being refitted with 127mm gun.

Gun on INS Delhi is OTO 76/62 newly built at BHEL Haridwar for which ToT was received

Unique Identifier is the mount under the turret

13 BAe 127 mm guns have been ordered -
7 Type 17A
4 Type 15B
1 INS Dronacharya Gunnery School for training
1 INS Valsura Electrical School for maintenance training

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Rakesh » 28 Sep 2019 01:48

Very nice tsarkar. Thank You.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Rakesh » 28 Sep 2019 01:50

Nice set of images in there....

India’s 2nd Scorpene Class submarine Khanderi enters service this weekend
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2019/09 ... ekend.html

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby maz » 28 Sep 2019 02:14

More pix of Delhi MLU here (from forums.airbase.ru IN thread at http://forums.airbase.ru/2019/09/t52954_74--vms-indii.1764.html
Image


compare to this image of Delhi at sea to see differences. For example, atop the bridgehouse, the T-91E fire control radar for the AK100 gun is gone as is the Garpun Bal missile targeting radar. Replacements should be the BEL Lynx and what may be the Terma Scanter 6002 SSR. Image

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby John » 28 Sep 2019 02:41

tsarkar wrote:
John wrote:Tsarkar is that gun from INS Kolkata? It looks like Kolkata is being refitted with 127mm gun.

Gun on INS Delhi is OTO 76/62 newly built at BHEL Haridwar for which ToT was received

Unique Identifier is the mount under the turret

13 BAe 127 mm guns have been ordered -
7 Type 17A
4 Type 15B
1 INS Dronacharya Gunnery School for training
1 INS Valsura Electrical School for maintenance training

Interesting thought P 15A will also get the Mk45 gun guess that makes sense given much larger size of 127mm gun it would hard to refit it on existing vessels. Looks like lw08 radar has also been removed from Delhi.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby A Nandy » 28 Sep 2019 13:06

https://swarajyamag.com/insta/scorpene- ... ndian-navy

https://twitter.com/rajnathsingh/status ... 1253948416

Scorpene Class Attack Submarine INS Khanderi, Shivalik Class Frigate Nilgiri Commissioned Into The Indian Navy


Image

The aircraft carrier drydock which was commissioned on Saturday is the largest drydock of the Indian Navy. Maintenance work on ships which cannot be carried out while it is out in the seas is undertaken after berthing it in the drydock.

Apart from maintenance works, the drydock also provides facilities for refuelling and repair. The dimensions of the drydock commissioned on Saturday are such that it will be capable of even dry docking INS Vikramaditya, the modified Kiev-class aircraft carrier of Indian Navy.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby nam » 28 Sep 2019 13:09

We need some P15B pictures...

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby parikh_ind » 28 Sep 2019 13:29

tsarkar wrote:
We have ample frigates and destroyers, so early part of next decade might not see any new designs. As John said, we've 3 programs - Type 15B, Type 17A and Type 1136.6 and between them 15 ships and that matches Chinese fertility rates.

One pointer is that we avoid large ships cramming everything since a single combat loss takes away significant capabilities in one go. We instead focus on multiple ships with distributed capabilities.


Totally armchair views FWIW

TSarkar ji we also are decomissioning 5 rajputs and the brahmaputra class (3 no.s) are pretty outdated , that leaves only 7 new ships . The other missile boats (INS Kora etc) are useless as well and their replacement is still on paper. Out of the 7 ships at least 3 will escort the new IAC I .

We have inadequate capability to combat the Chinese in the South China Sea or even blockade Malacaa and Sunda straits unless we are planning to camp in the Bay of Bengal . Ultimately trained crews with sufficient numbers win in a war.

How will adding 8 more brahmos or 16 more SAM's to a DDG centralize significant capability , those 16 SAM's may save the ship under saturation attacks . Surely all naval designers in other countries who are packing the ships to the brim with missiles cant be wrong.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby John » 28 Sep 2019 15:44

A Nandy wrote:https://swarajyamag.com/insta/scorpene-class-attack-submarine-ins-khanderi-shivalik-class-frigate-nilgiri-commissioned-into-the-indian-navy

https://twitter.com/rajnathsingh/status ... 1253948416

Scorpene Class Attack Submarine INS Khanderi, Shivalik Class Frigate Nilgiri Commissioned Into The Indian Navy


Image

Nilgiri was launched not Commissioned the pictures seem to indicate compared to P-15b launches it is much further along in terms of construction at launch.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby nam » 28 Sep 2019 16:01

One aspect, I don't understand is the logic around expanding Mazagoan docks. It is situated in Mumbai, the most expensive real estate in India.

And a very expensive city to live in.

You are paying very high cost for real estate & construction and to top it, pay for the workers will be very high to allow them to live in Mumbai.

No wonder our ships are so expensive.

Mazagoan docks should have a subsidiary in a cheaper place or utilize GSL for some of the build. We have 4-5 capital ships and 3 subs been built in a cramped place, in the most expensive city of the country.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby John » 28 Sep 2019 18:46

How will adding 8 more brahmos or 16 more SAM's to a DDG centralize significant capability , those 16 SAM's may save the ship under saturation attacks . Surely all naval designers in other countries who are packing the ships to the brim with missiles cant be wrong.

No one is packing with missiles see FREMM (8+16-32) and Type 26 Frigates (24+48).

Short range SAM will also be fitted, scrapping of Maitri due to cost concerns made that procurement a bit messy. Currently foreign vendor will be chosen for P-28 and DRDO SR SAM will be fitted on rest of vessels( won't be suprised if navy orders more from foreign vendor if it gets delayed). I believe P-15A/B will both get 32-48 missiles installed depending on the Srsam system.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Vips » 28 Sep 2019 18:55

INS Khanderi Capabilities.

INS Khanderi is the second Scorpene class submarine which was handed over to the Navy on September 19 to enhance its power projection undersea and on September 28, Defense Minister Rajnath Singh will commission it here. INS Khanderi has many features that make it one of the best and most advanced submarines in the country.

The state-of-the-art vessel displaces 1,615 tonnes on the surface and 1,775 tonnes when submerged. The 67.5 metres long INS Khanderi is powered by four MTU 12V 396 SE84 diesel engines and 360 battery cells and can remain on patrol for 50 days at a stretch at a depth of 350m. The attack submarine can travel at 37 kmph (20 knots) undersea while its speed on the surface is 20 kmph (11 knots).

This submarine can also be called a 'silent killer', as it can engage in combat without itself being a target. For example, due to the magnetised propulsion motor in its rear part (a French technology), the noise coming from inside the vessel is not allowed to come out. Due to this, the enemy's search plane or submarine or any other war vessel are not able to get its information properly. This shield puts the submarine at a strategic advantage.

The submarine will have eight officers and 35 sailors. It will be armed with 18 SUT torpedoes which can be fired from six tubes, sea-skimming Exocet anti-ship missiles. It can also carry 30 anti-ship mines in place of torpedoes.

DNA also spoke to Captain Dalbir Singh, Commanding Officer of INS Khanderi and he told how INS Khanderi is a matter of pride for our Navy. "Due to the lack of space in the submarine, many things have to be taken care of. Kitchen in a submarine is called galley. It takes a lot of care to cook here too. Apart from this, there are different compartments for sleeping. After three hours of duty, the soldiers take a break of six hours. As far as possible, the use of water is minimized."

Speaking to news agencies earlier, Singh said that INS Khanderi will enhance the Navy's level and that he is 'absolutely satisfied' with the performance of the submarine. The results of all its trials were better than expected, Singh added.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby maz » 01 Oct 2019 05:29

From the IN Facebook site:
Indigenous stealth ASW corvette Kavaratti under construction at M/s Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers Limited, Kolkata, successfully completed maiden Constructor Sea Trials of all her systems over four days in Bay of Bengal from 26 to 29 September 2019.

My hope is that if all the trials and post trial work can be completed in a timely manner, then delivery is possible before end 2019.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby kit » 01 Oct 2019 17:37

Why exactly are the LPD tenders being cancelled..? .. what difference will it make if a new tender is put ..the shipyards are the same and only possibility is that a foreign tender more likely. Quite weird !

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby brar_w » 01 Oct 2019 17:46

John wrote:No one is packing with missiles see FREMM (8+16-32) and Type 26 Frigates (24+48).


FREMM offered to USN (Italian design being used for US FFG(X) competition) houses 32 Mk-41's which means 16 x 4 ESSM Block II's along with 16 SM2 Block IIIC missiles for a total of 80 VL SAM's (or 128 x ESSM blk II load out if ship-self defense is the only concern i.e. No Area Defense needs). Plus 16 Naval Strike Missiles carried on deck and a 21 cell RAM launcher for point defense. Every competitor on that program is offering this capability (though NSM count varies from 8-16 but I doubt anyone barring prehaps Austall will show up with 8 instead of 16) to comply with the RFP requirements.

https://news.usni.org/wp-content/upload ... .38-AM.png

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby John » 01 Oct 2019 18:29

^ Was comparing it to only operational vessels even Type 26 being proposed for Canada and Australia Surface combatant programs packs a bit more heftier armament lets see when they get built.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby brar_w » 01 Oct 2019 18:39

John wrote:^ Was comparing it to only operational vessels even Type 26 being proposed for Canada and Australia Surface combatant programs packs a bit more heftier armament lets see when they get built.


The US FFG(X), the Australian and Canadian Type-26's (or the British one for that matter) are all expected to be delivered around the 2024-2026 time-frame and all pretty much have very firm, and clearly articulated performance and outfit requirements (though Lockheed Martin began working on the radar for the Canadian ship very recently they are expected to have it ready by the time it is needed since it is based on the US LRDR and Japan's SSR/AA). I think the point is that SAM load outs are trending upwards even when SAMs and sensors (GaN AESA based radars and Electronic Warfare/Attack soft kill systems) are getting better and Directed energy weapon are beginning to show up. I'd put the US FFG(X) at the lower end of the SAM loud out spectrum going forward, for they have a very large Destroyer and Cruiser fleet to provide area-defense. I can see the Europeans, Canadians and Australians growing their SAM capability considerably over time since these are pretty close to the upper limit of their warships in many cases.


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