Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

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John
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby John » 06 Mar 2020 22:48

Philip wrote:Back to Backfires.In 2012, Russia had around 150 Backfires in service plus another "90" mothballed! The latest 22M3M variant with Blackjack engines,etc. can carry 52,900 lbs. of ordnance in underwing,fuselage and internal weapons bays. You can work out the cocktail of missiles it can carry from that. The tragedy is that we were offered adter the '71 war around 70+ Backfires for a song,but our fighter-jock IAF chief declined the offer. So after the Canberras were pensioned off,we had nothing until the MKI came along giving some semblance of LR strike,but with limited capabilities ( 1 BMos only as of now). The IN has to change tack mindsetwise. The excruciating time it will take for a new CV to be built in India ,plus the range of anti-ship weaponry available a decade from now, may make the conventional CV look like a dinosaur ( literally waiting) waiting for the comet strike.

Please stop spewing nonsense and slamming our IAF chiefs with your made up stories. Backfire did even enter production till 72 and Russia didn't even build 70 of them till late 70s but they already offered them to India after 71 war :rotfl:. And for hundredth time Tu-22M were never offered to India till late 90s and even then originally it was lease offer then it became acquisition offer for couple of them but was rejected due to large amount of $$ Russia asked for and also missile treaty. Either way at the pace at which Russians are crashing the Tu-22M one good thing is in couple years they will run out of them so you will stop posting about it :D

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby yensoy » 07 Mar 2020 01:02

Actually Backfires, Blackjacks and the likes are liabilities for us, let me explain.

These planes are strategic bombers. You don't just load them up with conventional bombs. They provide airborne nuclear delivery capability. Now you can be like Unkil and keep a bunch of B-52s (or B-1Bs) in the air all the time, loaded with nukes and what not. Or you can be like us, parking these assets till we need them (because it costs a lot of money to keep them in the air, and specifically for these Russian creatures a lot of spare parts & servicing).

Now what happens when things get rough with Pak? We load some up and put them in the air. What happens next? Every P5 member and other busybody will ask us to "exercise restraint". These planes will have to return to base. Even worse will be the reaction if things get rough with China.

For us, given our circumstances and our adversaries, our nuclear posture "show of fangs" cannot be overt. We need to have a credible nuclear second strike capability, but all overt escalation will have to be conventional. These planes are pretty useless in indicating either a conventional escalation, or a second strike nuclear capability when they are sitting on the ground. In the air, they are an even bigger headache, besides being easy targets to shoot down.

Our missiles and nuke subs are sufficient deterrents.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Rakesh » 07 Mar 2020 04:10

kit wrote:That quite aptly sums up it. The Soryus would have made better sense.

Which the Japanese will not sell to India.

It was good enough to compete in the Aussie competition, but we are not worthy enough I guess.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby John » 07 Mar 2020 07:02

yensoy wrote:Actually Backfires, Blackjacks and the likes are liabilities for us, let me explain.

In BR there is always constant revisionist history done by few folks, went back to do some research and Russia only offered a meager 4 Tu-22M for lease in 04 which did not pan out because the large sum they asked for. Once again it was 4 not 40 or 70 and this was in 2004. Also have to keep in mind Soviet Union refused to sell Tu-22s (not Tu-22M) to India, they had no problem selling them to Iraq where they turned out to have pretty poor track record.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Cain Marko » 07 Mar 2020 09:20

yensoy wrote:Actually Backfires, Blackjacks and the likes are liabilities for us, let me explain.

These planes are strategic bombers. You don't just load them up with conventional bombs. They provide airborne nuclear delivery capability. Now you can be like Unkil and keep a bunch of B-52s (or B-1Bs) in the air all the time, loaded with nukes and what not. Or you can be like us, parking these assets till we need them (because it costs a lot of money to keep them in the air, and specifically for these Russian creatures a lot of spare parts & servicing).

Yensoyji, This is quite incorrect. The Blackjacks, B1s are in one category, the B52s in another and the Tu22s in altogether another. BTW, the Russians used the Backfires to great effect in Syria a rather low-key, below nuke level conflict won't you say (considering that their enemy was no more than ragtag bunnies?) So, the idea that these assets can't be loaded with conventional munitions is quite incorrect. In fact the Backfire has been used consistently as a delivery platform for conventional bombs and missiles - even in AFghanistan.

Now what happens when things get rough with Pak? We load some up and put them in the air. What happens next? Every P5 member and other busybody will ask us to "exercise restraint". These planes will have to return to base. Even worse will be the reaction if things get rough with China.

You think calls will be any less if we use CBGs and blockade Karachi? Rest assured, everything from MKI to Brahmos is a weapon of considerable destructive potential, and their use will result in calls for restraint. But if it is war situation, you think India will care? Not before objectives are achieved.

For us, given our circumstances and our adversaries, our nuclear posture "show of fangs" cannot be overt. We need to have a credible nuclear second strike capability, but all overt escalation will have to be conventional. These planes are pretty useless in indicating either a conventional escalation, or a second strike nuclear capability when they are sitting on the ground. In the air, they are an even bigger headache, besides being easy targets to shoot down.

Backfires are not for nuke delivery - not necessary at al.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby dinesh_kimar » 08 Mar 2020 13:53

^ I stand corrected abt Submarines in A&N.

That post showing submarine docking is awesome. I wasn't able to find confirmation abt submarine operations online, even berthing facilities. So assumed it wasn't available. (IN truly don't talk abt their subs).

Happy to be corrected on that one .

BTW, Japan is an unwilling partner for navy hardware, owing to geo politics. Too much Rhona dhona is unbearable.

However, a lot to learn from them about building a modern fleet, modular construction techniques, planning and implementation.

For eg, certain vessel classes have standardized propulsion, with engine suppliers either Nigata Engines or Mitsubishi, in tranches.

We are using 3-4 suppliers like Kirloskar Pielstick, MTU and Rolls Royce.

Our main concerns could be spreading of suppliers to ensure timely delivery, no large orders to overwhelm suppliers, and use of Rolls Royce for special waterjet/ pump jet requirements.

Japan has localised this into an electric propulsion system called Z-peller, which is modular and powered by regular diesel engine.

Orders are on time due to efficient production techniques, and heavy local efforts (engine power from 3-15 MW built quickly in same plant, testing and accessories like turbocharger fitment are streamlined, turn key delivery to JSDF).

Such efforts don't require sophisticated sensor and computer technology, only deep communication and common sense.

Additionally, our IN large ships are using propeller shafts from Russia/Ukraine. I heard our HEC , Ranchi has capabilities to cater to this, but heavily unionised and difficult to deal with.

" The material won't move within the shop floor for many months".

Also heard recently, if GE sanctions us, our Navy rather than LCA will be more affected.

Majority of our big warships use LM2500, and spares and service can be affected.

HAL license apparently limited to local Assembly and Test only.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby K Mehta » 08 Mar 2020 18:46

After reading Commodore Maolankar's article on LCA, I feel we need to have a three carrier navy. Not because of it's capabilities as a force projection but rather about the result of this induction to promote indigenous capabilities.
The amount spent on maintaining a carrier can be compared with maintaining any other large force. But the navy is a futuristic force which wants and wholeheartedly supports indigenous capability development. Any investment in the navy will lead to a betterment of indigenous future capabilities like naval ucav.
Already the development of LCA navy has been remarkable. If we want to support the navy and its indigenous capability development especially to a future aircraft program, we need to support a third carrier. I am sure it will be a huge spending and may even be a sitting target for some futuristic chinese threat, but if we want to support LCA navy and its derivatives, we have to support a third carrier.
If any service has had the short end of the spending stick it has been the Navy, yet we have seen tremendous indigenous program support from them. Even if low budget is cause and support to indigenous capability the effect, what is wrong in the other services getting the short end now and let navy get the third carrier?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby fanne » 08 Mar 2020 20:40

I would say that Navy can mature LCA and twin-seater TEDBF (ORCA for IAF) way faster than IAF can. For that reason, lets support them. Having TEDBF and it's technology flowing into ORCA, we can stave off importing twin-seater 4.5 gen - 5th gen plane 10 years down the line (if we ever buy something below AMCA, or a true LO platform).

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Manish_Sharma » 08 Mar 2020 21:27

^ it seems navy is not happy about being Naval Force, they WANT TO BE AIRFORCE!

I never see them lobbying for more Submarines, P 28s, Destroyers OR Bigger Missile Cruisers.

Only Airwing P8s, 65000 ton carriers.... with EMALS so CIA will have full access to carriers secrets, Like they are having full spy capabilities on the Naval airbases which operate P8 Poseidon through their spies posing as Boeing engineers.

65000 ton carrier will take 4 - 5 years of refit what happens if the war happens at that time?

All the money and resources wasted. Instead that money will go a long way to add another Mountain Corps.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Vivek K » 08 Mar 2020 22:03

Manish - the navy is about a) protection of the homeland - coasts b) sea denial c) force projection into enemy waters and d) capturing enemy territory. For a lot of its work (b, c and d) it operates far away from friendly shores and can face threats from enemy aircraft. A lot of this happens out of the envelope of the airforce. Therefore aircraft carriers come in very handy to allow it to control the situation and accomplish the objectives.

Making aircraft carriers also promotes the economy by providing a lot of employment as well.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Manish_Sharma » 08 Mar 2020 22:56

^Vivek we need more Mountain Divisions first; for which Parrikar found out we have no money.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Rakesh » 08 Mar 2020 23:03

That design (conceptual by the artist and not official) does not look proportional. I love that MH-60R at the back!

Drag & Drop into new window for larger size...

https://twitter.com/Kuntal__biswas/stat ... 73792?s=20 ---> Future Frigate design for Indian Navy.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby John » 08 Mar 2020 23:11

That design is step down from P-17a :D and chances of navy going away from Rbu-6000 is unlikely.

On topic for next generation frigate, P-17a will be built til end of decade but There is good chance that once GSL completes the 2 1135.6 Frigates, we will move to more cleaner/modified version of 1135.6.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Philip » 09 Mar 2020 12:38

Back to the supersonic LRMP capability.As of a few days ago,UK Typhoons scrambled to intercept TU- 142 Bears off the coast of Scotland ,.They were flying outside UK airspace,but are regularly testing UK air defences. The enormous range and capability weaponsloadwise , makes them extremely potent.Even more are the Backfires and Blackjacks.The stats I gave were late 2019 ones. Backfires cann carry a variety of missiles underwing,fuselage and internally.To say that they're useless and only capable of dropping dumb bombs is a gross case of self-deception given open source facts. The USNI said that they regularly bombed targets in Syria.

I seriously wonder whether there is a consiracy to prevent India from obtaining long range supersonic strategic bombers which have dual- use roles. In the context of China it is absolutely essential that we possess the same.In the maritime sphere,carrying a cocktail of missiles.

The foll. facts were reported in the USNI Proceedings magazine,the main professional naval mag for the USN,no.145 in 2019. A summary of the article.

Improvements " quite impressive".
KH-101 & 555 land attack missiles,
In addition,2 " ultra- high speed dual capable ( nuclear) missiles in 2021."
KH-32 LR supersonic anti-ship missole,620nm range," probably invulnerable to existing western air defences ,"
The KH-32 entered service in 2016 and is carried by "100 Backfires"! A huge number in service,plus more mothballed.
Though slower than a MIG-31, it can also carry the Kinzhal LR AAM,400km range.The KH-32 has a speed between M.4 to 5.1
Thus,according to the USNI, Backfires will be out of range of western/ US carrier air defnces/ aircraft and will be almost impossible to intercept and shoot down before they laynch their ultra-high speed almost invulnerable missiles. The range and speed of both aircraft and missiles "complicates air defence by a factor of 4."

The Backfire was the most dreaded of Sov. bombers by the USN during the Cold War, according to US naval sources given their high speed of attack and LR missiles. It has now been upgraded hugely with the same engines as on the new Blackjacks with a complete cockpit conversion similar to Blackjacks.

So ond can clearly see the merits of the Backfire Tu-22M3M,
facts from the USN itself. If the aircraft and missiles are " invulnerable" to the USN, imagine what they would represent in the IN context against the PLAN.We would be able to sink the Chin CBGs within the ICS itself before they could attempt ingress into the IOR. Also remember that the Chins have a large number of legacy Tupolev bombers ,equipped with stand- off Chin missiles,which will be used against us. Acquisition of Backfires is a neccessity for the IN, not a possible option.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Anthony Hines » 09 Mar 2020 23:50

Does Russia have Backfires to sell? Last produced in 1997 so wont there be a spares issue?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby brar_w » 10 Mar 2020 01:05

No one is doing what I think they ought to do..hence there must be a global conspiracy... :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby John » 10 Mar 2020 02:25

Anthony Hines wrote:Does Russia have Backfires to sell? Last produced in 1997 so wont there be a spares issue?

Ignore our resident mother Russian comrade Philip he goes off on topics about how we should do acquisitions that are were no longer being offered or never been offered. Not sure what purpose it really serves.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby nachiket » 11 Mar 2020 05:49

John wrote:
Anthony Hines wrote:Does Russia have Backfires to sell? Last produced in 1997 so wont there be a spares issue?

Ignore our resident mother Russian comrade Philip he goes off on topics about how we should do acquisitions that are were no longer being offered or never been offered. Not sure what purpose it really serves.

Not to forget those which don't even exist beyond scale models.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Vips » 12 Mar 2020 06:40

Indian Navy to enhance Submarine Patrol in Indian Ocean Region with deep submergence rescue vessels.

The submarines deployed in forward areas to showcase India’s interest in the Indian Ocean Region (IOR) is critical but the underwater operations carry many risks. However, seawater profile for detection of underwater routes by the submarine’s navigational sonars etc., are a matter of concern. Denial of access to unauthorised vessels inside India’s Offshore Development Area is a major challenge, with warships and submarine involved in the robust surveillance arrangement.

These submarine operations can provide high-quality ISR (Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance) information during peace times and this capability comes from the submarine’s ability to enter an area to watch, listen and to collect the information because it can operate stealthily close to the action they can capture many elusive signals.

In recent times, Chinese military and commercial facilities have emerged along its sea line of communication through strategic investments in several Indian Ocean ports (like Gwadar, Hambantota, and Colombo etc.). This potential Chinese intention in the IOR is geopolitically known as String of Pearl’s theory. The protection and safeguard of all present or evolving economic assets fall within the ambit of Indian Navy’s Flag Officer Defence Advisory Group (FODAG). The FODAG’s role is to advise various ministries — Defence, Petroleum & Natural Gas and Shipping on all planning and policy aspects of offshore security and defence covering EEZ, territorial waters and other Maritime Zones of India.

Diving Support Vessels

Indian Navy regularly conducts deep sea diving operations, including in the IOR, with an aim to undertake submarine rescue exercise, actual undersea inspection or salvage operations. The Saturation divers are specialized deep-sea divers who carry out such highly complex diving operations, usually with the assistance from a Diving Support Vessel (DSV). “This unique vessel has Deck Decompression Chambers where divers are compressed to the required depth and then transferred under pressure to a Diving Bell, which is further lowered into the sea. Underwater, these divers are provided a heated gas mixture of oxygen and helium for breathing and hot water for maintaining body temperatures. With every 10 meters depth, the water pressure on the Saturation diver increases by a kilogram per centimetre square, causing physiological problems like gas bubbles throughout the human body while surfacing. Once at the surface, these divers undergo a ‘decompression’ routine inside specialized chambers installed onboard the DSV,” explains Milind Kulshreshtha, C4I expert.

Deep Submergence Rescue Vessels

Keeping an active watch over an ‘area of interest’ closer to hostile coastline requires an enhanced shallow water submarine operation. Though submarine provides a significant strategic advantage here, it is also vulnerable to action damage and requires critical follow-up diving operations for the Search and Rescue mission. C4I expert, says, “This role is amply supported by a Deep Submergence Rescue Vessel (DSRV), and is the much-required re-assurance to the crew onboard the submarine undertaking risky manoeuvres. Earlier unfortunate incidents like Russian Kursk submarine sinking and fire accident onboard INS Sidhuratna, had also highlighted the need for a submarine rescue vessel. India’s first DSRV procured from the UK completed Navy’s Sea Acceptance Trials successfully in June’2019. The trials involved an underwater ‘mating’ of the DSRV with a hatch of a submerged submarine to carry out a personal transfer. The hatch of the submarine was duly strengthened earlier as per directives of Submarine Design Directorate at Naval Headquarter, so as not to buckle with the additional load of DSRV.”

What are they equipped with?

“These DSRVs are equipped with sophisticated sonar systems and an ROV (Remotely Operated Vehicle) to clear debris and various other obstructions underwater. It has a Side Scan Sonar for locating the position of the submarine in distress at sea, and can use its ROV (Remotely Operated Vehicle) to assist the rescue operations. And can be transported rapidly to the mission area via air, sea or land,” he explains.

According to the Indian Navy the DSRV can recover submarine crew from depths up to 650m and Navy intends to position one each on West and East Coast, respectively.

Centre of Regional Excellence for Submarine Rescue

As has been reported by Financial Express Online earlier, India is part of a select league of nations which possess the capability to rescue submarines, including that of friendly nations in the IOR. India has the ambition to emerge as the Centre of Regional Excellence for Submarine Rescue missions and accordingly, apart from procuring the additional DSRVs is undertaking indigenous construction of two 7,650 ton Diving Support Vessels (DSVs) at Hindustan Shipyard Ltd. (HSL) to further augment the submarine support operations. It is planned to fit a DSRV onboard each of these new induction DSVs. Overall, the induction of DSVs and DSRVs by Navy shall go a long way in enhancing India’s regional role of being the nodal agency in IOR for submarine rescue.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby nits » 12 Mar 2020 16:56

kit wrote:On a side note, the first SSBN of a new class will enter sea trials this year .. fully laden with 8 slbms or 16 shorter range ballistic missiles, giving India a full blown third triad.

i thought third triad was already in place by our nuclear subs - is that not the case ?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby MeshaVishwas » 12 Mar 2020 17:56

New boomer(Sister of Arihant) is what he is saying.
Deterrence Patrol should be ideally 24*7 so the numbers are getting built up to provide just that.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Philip » 13 Mar 2020 10:29

AH, et al, Russia has over a hundred in service and dozens more mothballed.Latest western reports say that around 40 to 50 are being heavily upgraded ,all worlk to be completed between 2023 to 2025. The advent of new LRCMs,strat. missiles,hypersonic missiles and a variety of PGM munitions, has made these CW platforms very valuable because of their speed,range ( extended with new engines) weaponload ,upto 50,000lb, and ability to carry at least a cocktail of a doz. plus missiles in underwing,fuselage and the internal weapons bay. Just a few Backfires could launch massive saturation strikes in the Malacca Straits, even the ICS,
the Straits of Hormuz, entrance to the Red Sea,etc. Our 2 carriers will not be able to launch at short noticd such attacks and in such volume,neither do our DDGs have the LRCM firepower at the moment. The Backfires could after the first strike return,refuel,rearm and replay their initial strike ops whereverreqd.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby John » 13 Mar 2020 12:47

Philip wrote:AH, et al, Russia has over a hundred in service and dozens more mothballed.Latest western reports say that around 40 to 50 are being heavily upgraded ,all worlk to be completed between 2023 to 2025.

Russia has less than 60 Tu-22m3 that are operational and 30 are being upgraded please stop making stuff (considering the Russian economy and how fast they are crashing Tu-22m3 they will lucky to have dozen upgraded or even 30 flying by 2025).

Do you just keep spamming the same thing over and over again. For hundredth time Russia only offered 4 Tu-22m3 for lease as part 2.3 billion deal with Gorshkov. Luckily sanity won out and we regengotiated the deal of 1 billion deal for just Gorshkov in 04 ( Russians came back to demand more money in 09 but that's story for another day) . So Russia was asking for around 1.3 billion just to lease 4 Tu-22m3. After that it was no longer offered so even if you want india to buy 100 Tu-22m3 they are not offering them...

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Manish_Sharma » 13 Mar 2020 14:44


Gerard
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Gerard » 13 Mar 2020 15:58

We understand the defence of the country is crucial and is an important aspect, but the environment is also our concern,” the Chief Justice said. Everyone knows that low frequency affects the wildlife, the flora and fauna and the forest ecology adversely, he said.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Vips » 13 Mar 2020 17:05

Insanity of this kind is possible only in India.Everyone who do something which goes against common sense and the security of the country usually have nothing to loose and everything to gain - Praise from the "Psuedo-Intellectuals", invitation to and felicitation in seminars, interviews in newspapers, recognition from special interests (anti-national) groups abroad etc etc etc.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Rakesh » 13 Mar 2020 18:11

Navy makes a case for third aircraft carrier
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2020/03/ ... craft.html

Opponents claim it will create another white elephant, but naval planners say funding is possible.


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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Arun.prabhu » 13 Mar 2020 18:36

Three carriers would ensure we have two deployed. That is going to be necessary in the coming years. If the navy can give up on EMALS and maybe come up with a plan that won't cost us twenty billion dollars to procure and operate, I'd be all over it.

Rakesh wrote:Navy makes a case for third aircraft carrier
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2020/03/ ... craft.html

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Pratyush » 13 Mar 2020 20:28

Manish_Sharma wrote:https://m.timesofindia.com/india/hc-stays-navys-elf-radar-project/articleshow/74597080.cms

HC stays Navy's ELF Radar Project



WTF is this??

What has given the judiciary the authority to intervene in the project?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Arun.prabhu » 13 Mar 2020 20:31

Activist judge. Probably.

Pratyush wrote:
Manish_Sharma wrote:https://m.timesofindia.com/india/hc-stays-navys-elf-radar-project/articleshow/74597080.cms

HC stays Navy's ELF Radar Project



WTF is this??

What has given the judiciary the authority to intervene in the project?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby John » 15 Mar 2020 06:01

Arun.prabhu wrote:Three carriers would ensure we have two deployed. That is going to be necessary in the coming years. If the navy can give up on EMALS and maybe come up with a plan that won't cost us twenty billion dollars to procure and operate, I'd be all over it.

Rakesh wrote:Navy makes a case for third aircraft carrier
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2020/03/ ... craft.html

I support the idea of building another Vikrant class to reduce build and operational cost, focus on getting this ASAP by 2028. If our budget increases in next couple years we can look at new AC design based on a enlargened Vikrant.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby kit » 15 Mar 2020 06:12

Manish_Sharma wrote:^ it seems navy is not happy about being Naval Force, they WANT TO BE AIRFORCE!

I never see them lobbying for more Submarines, P 28s, Destroyers OR Bigger Missile Cruisers.

Only Airwing P8s, 65000 ton carriers.... with EMALS so CIA will have full access to carriers secrets, Like they are having full spy capabilities on the Naval airbases which operate P8 Poseidon through their spies posing as Boeing engineers.

65000 ton carrier will take 4 - 5 years of refit what happens if the war happens at that time?

All the money and resources wasted. Instead that money will go a long way to add another Mountain Corps.


Why do you think the US NAVY has the Second largest Air force in the world just after the US air Force ? .. is this a contradiction ?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Suresh S » 15 Mar 2020 06:33

not activist , more like deshdrohis hidden in plainsight in the film industry, in judiciary, in lok sabha, in rajya sabha and in every other part of our country. You have to thank the deshdrohi party also known as indian national congress and peacefuls.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Manish_Sharma » 15 Mar 2020 14:20

kit wrote:
Manish_Sharma wrote:^ it seems navy is not happy about being Naval Force, they WANT TO BE AIRFORCE!

I never see them lobbying for more Submarines, P 28s, Destroyers OR Bigger Missile Cruisers.

Only Airwing P8s, 65000 ton carriers.... with EMALS so CIA will have full access to carriers secrets, Like they are having full spy capabilities on the Naval airbases which operate P8 Poseidon through their spies posing as Boeing engineers.

65000 ton carrier will take 4 - 5 years of refit what happens if the war happens at that time?

All the money and resources wasted. Instead that money will go a long way to add another Mountain Corps.


Why do you think the US NAVY has the Second largest Air force in the world just after the US air Force ? .. is this a contradiction ?


No USN has 82 Arleigh Burke-class destroyers each weighing 10,000 tons, 56 Nuclear Submarines, 27 Ticonderoga class Guided missile cruisers ....

On top of such solid base they build huge airwing.

Our navy having piddly 4 P15 Destroyers and 4 P17 Shivaliks and 10 SSKs wants 65,000 tons emal equipped AC with 57 naval MRCA fighter force. So if AC is in refit for 3 years and war happens during that period all that money and resources will be lying unused. While there's no money for 2 more Mountain Divisions, more IAF squadrons.

When Modi became PM he visited INS Vikramaditya, but no take off OR Landing was performed for PM. Later PMO enquired, why it was so?

"Weather didn't permit aircraft landings and takeoffs" came reply.

Imagine waiting for weather during war.

What navy wants is inverted pyramid, it's bound to topple

Vips
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Vips » 15 Mar 2020 23:54

Indian Navy is taking one 260 Meters length Berth at the L&T Shipyard in Katupalli on Lease for 8 years from 2022 to 2030 to base the INS Vikrant aircraft carrier. The Navy's plan to have a base on the East Coast to station its aircraft carrier and nuclear powered submarines has not materialized and hence the need to lease the shipyard on yearly lease charges of Rs 30 Crores,

Vivek K
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Vivek K » 16 Mar 2020 00:09

Manish - no argument about funds for IAF and others over IAC3 but didn’t follow your point about weather restricting flying. There are similar issues on land.

JTull
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby JTull » 16 Mar 2020 01:25

How did the PM embark on and off the AC? On a helicopter? If that can fly, then surely the Migs could have flown.

Manish_Sharma
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Manish_Sharma » 16 Mar 2020 03:01

Vivek K wrote:...but didn’t follow your point about weather restricting flying. There are similar issues on land.


Vivek on Ambala Airbase there's no chance of happening that, maybe on Leh airbase possibly sometimes but not as much as happening on a steel tub in middle of the ocean.

It's all about squeezing more out of platforms to get more of money's worth.

57 RafaleM for navy will wear out faster than 57 Rafale for Airforce. As each landing is 'controlled crash'. Sea salt air will allow do corrosion on Naval fighter leading to more money spent on maintenance and fighter retirement much faster.

Manish_Sharma
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Manish_Sharma » 16 Mar 2020 03:06

JTull wrote:How did the PM embark on and off the AC? On a helicopter? If that can fly, then surely the Migs could have flown.


https://m.hindustantimes.com/india/no-m ... WxVsL.html

No MiG show on INS Vikramaditya, PMO asks why
The Prime Minister’s Office is likely to ask the Navy why the MiG-29K fighter aircraft could not operate from the deck of INS Vikramaditya during PM Narendra Modi’s visit on Saturday, a senior government official told HT.

The Prime Minister’s Office is likely to ask the Navy why the MiG-29K fighter aircraft could not operate from the deck of INS Vikramaditya during PM Narendra Modi’s visit on Saturday, a senior government official told HT.

The Navy had to abort plans to showcase take-off and landing of the fighters on the Russian-made aircraft carrier due to turbulent sea conditions.


Indranil
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Indranil » 16 Mar 2020 04:10

What are you guys talking about? Does anybody know here what was the sea-state when the PM embarked the ship? What was the sea state when he was onboard?

When sea states reach a certain stage ACs don't launch aircrafts. Yes, even in war! Yes, every Navy does that! Simple Google searches can help here.

There are moronic govt. officials in every govt. DDM is there to amplify their moronic opinions. We don't need that here.


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