Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby SSridhar » 20 Oct 2018 20:28

^ The Print also claims that the destination is Kudankulam. But, it then convolutes the whole issue by linking it extravagantly with the ATVs. Load of cr@p.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Chinmay » 23 Oct 2018 09:25

Defence, connectivity key in PM Narendra Modi’s Japan visit

This tidbit caught my eye
Japan declined to bid for a recent Indian Navy submarine tender because, the ambassador indicated, New Delhi was holding separate talks over Japan’s Soryu-class attack submarine. “This is now being processed internally by India,” he said, and talks were on with a private sector Indian partner.


Lets hope the P75I tender is cancelled, more Scorpenes made and another private shipyard (L & T?) makes the Soryus.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Rakesh » 23 Oct 2018 10:18

I really hope the above is true

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Singha » 23 Oct 2018 10:22

+209 +75 sir. we need those big Soryus.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby chola » 23 Oct 2018 11:57

Singha wrote:+209 +75 sir. we need those big Soryus.


At probably 75% the cost of a SSN? They are big and Japanese which means expensive.

We build nuclear subs without licensing. We need to build SSKs by paying through the nose to firangs? Why?

I just as soon have an all nuclear sub fleet like the US. SSKs are green water for nations needing to defend from enemy already in their littorals. Who’s going to be cruising 20 miles of India (other than the US Sixth and Seventh fleets)?

Far better to meet enemy ships in blue waters with SSNs than SSKs in green (where the IAF can deal with intruders anyways.)

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby mody » 23 Oct 2018 14:40

U209+scorpene hybrid is the way to go for SSK. We have the ToT for both and we have built both of them from scratch. The electronics and combat management systems etc. have come directly from OEM. But we can make the entire hull on our own. We also have a decent sonar, indigenous batteries and now an indigenous AIP unit as well (almost ready). Some of the systems can be imported from France or Germany as need be.
We can modify the design to have 8 VLS tubes to fire Klub missiles or later Brahmos-NG or Nirbhay.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby nam » 23 Oct 2018 16:51

Getting those Soryu subs would be a killer, specially the tech that could go in to our SSN.

Moreover gives us leverage on the French to pull some SSN tech from them.

Ofcourse Soryu is going to sink our naval budget quite "deep".

My major disappointment has been Indo-Japan relation. I was expecting some good tech deals since 2014, it has not really materialized. Probably Japanese seem to be very reluctant to share their tech other their moo bhola gora brothers.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby abhik » 23 Oct 2018 18:25

chola wrote:
Singha wrote:+209 +75 sir. we need those big Soryus.


At probably 75% the cost of a SSN? They are big and Japanese which means expensive.

We build nuclear subs without licensing. We need to build SSKs by paying through the nose to firangs? Why?

I just as soon have an all nuclear sub fleet like the US. SSKs are green water for nations needing to defend from enemy already in their littorals. Who’s going to be cruising 20 miles of India (other than the US Sixth and Seventh fleets)?

Far better to meet enemy ships in blue waters with SSNs than SSKs in green (where the IAF can deal with intruders anyways.)

IIRC Arihant has something like 70% Russian content, you can bet they are squeezing $$$ out of us.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Rakesh » 23 Oct 2018 19:59

chola wrote:At probably 75% the cost of a SSN? They are big and Japanese which means expensive.

We build nuclear subs without licensing. We need to build SSKs by paying through the nose to firangs? Why?

I just as soon have an all nuclear sub fleet like the US. SSKs are green water for nations needing to defend from enemy already in their littorals. Who’s going to be cruising 20 miles of India (other than the US Sixth and Seventh fleets)?

Far better to meet enemy ships in blue waters with SSNs than SSKs in green (where the IAF can deal with intruders anyways.)

There are six SSNs right now, in the planning phase. But the high cost involved of maintaining an all SSN fleet requires the Navy to have SSKs as well. The Soryu has many advantages over the Type 209, Kilo and the Scorpene.

And India does require SSKs to defend from enemies in their littorals. And a SSK is inherently more silent than a SSN. It does not have the reach of a SSN, but that is not required of the SSK. In numerous exercises with Los Angeles Class boats, our Kilos have gotten the better of them every time. That is not because the Los Angeles Class is a bad vessel, but rather that the Kilo is much more quieter.

They do not call a Kilo boat, the black hole for nothing.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Kakkaji » 23 Oct 2018 21:00

Then why not just order some more new-build Kilos?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Rakesh » 23 Oct 2018 21:14

Kakkaji, that is what Project 75I is all about - inducting a new generation SSK to complement the Scorpene SSK.

The Soryu has plenty of cutting edge tech that we can incorporate into our own SSN program. Read below (the second link is from Oct 2018)...

Why Japan’s Soryu-Class Submarines Are So Good
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-b ... good-17898

Japan Launches First Lithium-Ion Equipped Soryu Class Submarine
https://thediplomat.com/2018/10/japan-l ... submarine/

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby chetak » 23 Oct 2018 21:32

We should have started the same process with the jet engine project too.

We already have almost all of the blueprints for many of the submarine types that we have imported so far.

we have the tech for the batteries as well as maybe the nuke power plant too.

We also have a very good in house design capability. It is too much to ask for the team to try and amalgamate the worthy features from the many varieties we have to try an go ahead with a green field project of our own??

Better than paying someone an arm and a leg for another new submarine again.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Singha » 23 Oct 2018 21:50

buying a proven design would derisk the project. we should aim to use our own HWT, mines, a desi sub launched ASM cloned from the uran with a new sensor/brahmos-M , a local combat system and obviously the hull ..... since we do not make the power plant that and its associated kit can be japani.
the dosa and idli maker from mylapore. perhaps get Li Ion tech for a few and try out DRDO AIP when it matures.

a proven large hull with room for a midsection VLS / marcos delivery chamber would be more tfta than a smallish U209 / scorpene derivative, which I am all for if soryu is not possible.

this need a open collaborative mentality from the japanese. so far all we heard is noises. perhaps they are afraid of "offending" the dragon and being put under pressure by more Noko nukes?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby chetak » 23 Oct 2018 23:16

Singha wrote:buying a proven design would derisk the project. we should aim to use our own HWT, mines, a desi sub launched ASM cloned from the uran with a new sensor/brahmos-M , a local combat system and obviously the hull ..... since we do not make the power plant that and its associated kit can be japani.
the dosa and idli maker from mylapore. perhaps get Li Ion tech for a few and try out DRDO AIP when it matures.

a proven large hull with room for a midsection VLS / marcos delivery chamber would be more tfta than a smallish U209 / scorpene derivative, which I am all for if soryu is not possible.

this need a open collaborative mentality from the japanese. so far all we heard is noises. perhaps they are afraid of "offending" the dragon and being put under pressure by more Noko nukes?


The japanese have had an almost organically grown MIC since before the WWII when they used some foreign designs/help to start off initially. They had dealings with the brits, germans and some of the others at that time. They already had some really large industrial companies that started off at that time with some of these foreign products and then they quickly moved into some very innovative products of their own.

Offhand, I haven't heard of any countries that they "exported" to at that time so it was pretty much their own military forces that were their customers. By all reports, the japanese equipment, navy, army or air force, was very potent and lethal.

Since after the end of the great war, their terms of surrender may have a lot to do with what their MIC did not do or was not allowed to do. So their "self" defence forces used ameriki stuff which they also made in japan for themselves.

So in one way or the other, they have kept their historical weapon making capabilities alive and honed and also retained their historic military industrial "muscle memory" but still no significant exports of any note.

Therefore, I seriously doubt if they would go against that policy of theirs and help us out in this particular field. Also, for some strange reason, they have always had a soft corner for the pakis while doing hard headed business with us and none of their businesses with us has been on charitable terms but almost all of it driven by hard bargained terms that left no doubts that they were in the driver's seat.

After the advent of Modi, they have loosened up somewhat but I don't think that will play ball with us in the defence sector.

I still cannot figure out why they have the soft corner for the pakis, even after the horrific nuclear proliferation done by the pakis via xerox khan and his greedy, complicit jehadi general friends.

OTOH, we have never proliferated or transgressed in any way but still, for some reason. we have been at the receiving end of their displeasure.

I know that Indian troops decisively blunted and beat back the japanese thrust into the north east of India during WWII, but that cannot be the reason for any leftover aggression or resentment that they may still be harbouring or can it??.
Last edited by chetak on 23 Oct 2018 23:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Singha » 23 Oct 2018 23:41

Perhaps they think handing over cashmere would stop tsp nuclear program and proliferation into noko

That boat sailed out long ago so maybe thats why more relaxed terms now

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby chetak » 23 Oct 2018 23:44

Singha wrote:Perhaps they think handing over cashmere would stop tsp nuclear program and proliferation into noko

That boat sailed out long ago so maybe thats why more relaxed terms now


Even they could not be that naive, saar. :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby VinodTK » 24 Oct 2018 21:42

India signs $777 million deal for Israeli missile defence systems
TEL AVIV: State-owned Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) has won an additional, $777 million contract to supply LRSAM air and missile defence systems to seven ships in the Indian navy, the company said on Wednesday.

The contract is with India's state-owned Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL), which is the main contractor in the project, IAI said.

The LRSAM, part of the Barak 8 family, is an air and missile defence system used by Israel's navy as well as India's navy, air and land forces.

With this deal, sales of the Barak 8 over the past few years total over $6 billion, IAI said.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby V_Raman » 25 Oct 2018 02:09

I have always had two questions and never gotten a good answer.

What happened to the HDW line?

Why cant we get Kilo tech?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Rakesh » 25 Oct 2018 03:31

The HDW 209 line was cancelled due to allegations of corruption.

Govt-to-govt deal on submarines
https://www.telegraphindia.com/india/go ... id/1511695

German conglomerate, Thyssenkrupp, the original builders of the U-Boat of Hitler's navy in World War II, currently owns HDW from which the Indian Navy sourced its Type 209 Shishumar-class submarines (INS Shishumar, Shankush, Shalki and Shankul) between 1986 and 1994 before the deal was hit by allegations of bribery and suspended.

We lost our submarine building capability after the delivery of the last two HDW 209 boats (Shalki and Shankul) and that was restarted only with the acquisition of the Scorpene Class boat, in which the keel of INS Kalvari - lead boat - was laid down in April 2009.

Between the delivery of INS Shankul in 1994 and INS Kalvari in 2017, we acquired 10 Kilo Class boats - all directly from Russia. For reasons unknown, we got them as fully built versus building them in India itself.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Singha » 25 Oct 2018 09:05

beautiful pic of QE2 showing its fabled width and roomy deck space . we should use this kind of design when upsizing to 65k
its shorter than Nimitz class but equally wide. even the huge merlin helis on deck look small. the deck edge lifts can bring up 2 X JSF / F18 / RafaleM side by side , armed and ready to roll

Image

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Rakesh » 25 Oct 2018 09:08

That is amazingly gorgeous! WOW! :eek:

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Singha » 25 Oct 2018 09:09

the british make good looking ships, the type45 is another looker with that supertall EMPAR mast and SMART-L

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Rakesh » 25 Oct 2018 09:11

I heard the Type 45s are having serious problems...but solutions are being introduced...

Final cure for Type 45 destroyer propulsion problems announced
https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/final- ... announced/

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby ArjunPandit » 25 Oct 2018 10:13

I hope the Britain is not able to afford this beauty after a decade and India buys this

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby darshhan » 25 Oct 2018 10:22

ArjunPandit wrote:I hope the Britain is not able to afford this beauty after a decade and India buys this


I hope India does not indulge in such Bhikaari type activity after 10 years

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby ArjunPandit » 25 Oct 2018 11:16

That will be my preferred option too, bit the way things are today let's not kid ourselves

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby srin » 25 Oct 2018 12:39

Singha wrote:beautiful pic of QE2 showing its fabled width and roomy deck space . we should use this kind of design when upsizing to 65k
its shorter than Nimitz class but equally wide. even the huge merlin helis on deck look small. the deck edge lifts can bring up 2 X JSF / F18 / RafaleM side by side , armed and ready to roll


Don't see angled deck for landing. Looks like vertical landing only. So no F18 or Rafale-M. Only F-35Bs STOVL. What's the point ?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Kakarat » 25 Oct 2018 14:23

Rakesh wrote:The HDW 209 line was cancelled due to allegations of corruption.

Govt-to-govt deal on submarines
https://www.telegraphindia.com/india/go ... id/1511695

German conglomerate, Thyssenkrupp, the original builders of the U-Boat of Hitler's navy in World War II, currently owns HDW from which the Indian Navy sourced its Type 209 Shishumar-class submarines (INS Shishumar, Shankush, Shalki and Shankul) between 1986 and 1994 before the deal was hit by allegations of bribery and suspended.

We lost our submarine building capability after the delivery of the last two HDW 209 boats (Shalki and Shankul) and that was restarted only with the acquisition of the Scorpene Class boat, in which the keel of INS Kalvari - lead boat - was laid down in April 2009.

Between the delivery of INS Shankul in 1994 and INS Kalvari in 2017, we acquired 10 Kilo Class boats - all directly from Russia. For reasons unknown, we got them as fully built versus building them in India itself.


The situation is very similar to the Bofors scandal and dhanush gun. According to Vice Admiral GM Hiranandani via his books, a lot of Type 209's design documents were transferred for their production in India and also a team from Indian Navy was involved in design modifications to the Type 209 for Indian needs. So if the Navy decides it can design a sub based on those transferred documents and unlike the 80s the market is open for any subsystems that we will not be able to make

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Singha » 25 Oct 2018 15:52

srin wrote:
Singha wrote:beautiful pic of QE2 showing its fabled width and roomy deck space . we should use this kind of design when upsizing to 65k
its shorter than Nimitz class but equally wide. even the huge merlin helis on deck look small. the deck edge lifts can bring up 2 X JSF / F18 / RafaleM side by side , armed and ready to roll


Don't see angled deck for landing. Looks like vertical landing only. So no F18 or Rafale-M. Only F-35Bs STOVL. What's the point ?


Check the french NG PA2 design based off the same template. they have started talks for EMALS.
what is that overhang part on french diagram the UK seems to have made it wider and overhanging all the way for that huge CVNish deck

Image

note the all-the-way overhang on the left and how wide the deck is ... they balance the weight of the two islands nicely and permit big safe parking areas
Image

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby chola » 25 Oct 2018 16:04

Kakarat wrote:
Rakesh wrote:The HDW 209 line was cancelled due to allegations of corruption.

Govt-to-govt deal on submarines
https://www.telegraphindia.com/india/go ... id/1511695


We lost our submarine building capability after the delivery of the last two HDW 209 boats (Shalki and Shankul) and that was restarted only with the acquisition of the Scorpene Class boat, in which the keel of INS Kalvari - lead boat - was laid down in April 2009.

Between the delivery of INS Shankul in 1994 and INS Kalvari in 2017, we acquired 10 Kilo Class boats - all directly from Russia. For reasons unknown, we got them as fully built versus building them in India itself.


The situation is very similar to the Bofors scandal and dhanush gun. According to Vice Admiral GM Hiranandani via his books, a lot of Type 209's design documents were transferred for their production in India and also a team from Indian Navy was involved in design modifications to the Type 209 for Indian needs. So if the Navy decides it can design a sub based on those transferred documents and unlike the 80s the market is open for any subsystems that we will not be able to make


Absolutely INFURIATING why South Korea’s 209 deal not only allowed them to build the sub in Korea but to EXPORT it too.

The bribing scandal is nothing compared the scandalous way we negotiate “ToT” which transfers absolutely nothing when we cannot make things beyond terms of contract. That is subcontracting work onlee. Not transfer of technology.

We should be building 209s on our own to punish HDW for bribing.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby John » 25 Oct 2018 18:27

I been saying here for over a decade that locally built U-209 were best bang for the money and Scorpene are waste of $$.

Navy went with Scorpene because it translates into more money for all parties involved including MDL, CMS for Scorpene was heavily hyped by marketing machine of the DCN i feel navy felt for it and on top of that GOI wanted a deal with France to maintain a "good" relationship. Where as there is no incentive to build a indigenous U-209 sadly most often it is not about doing the right thing for the country but rather wants most beneficial for various parties involved.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Vips » 25 Oct 2018 23:28

India’s plans on archipelago in Mauritius cause unease.

India will extend a runway and build port facilities on the Mauritian archipelago of Agaléga in what security experts say is a significant boost for New Delhi in its tussle with China for military influence in the Indian Ocean.

Agaléga consists of two sparsely populated islands about 600 miles north of Mauritius, a beach holiday destination that also boasts a huge exclusive economic zone of 2.3m sq km, roughly the size of India’s.

The exact nature of construction is shrouded in secrecy. However, Abhijit Singh, a former Indian naval officer and head of the Maritime Policy Initiative at the Observer Research Foundation in Delhi, said the plan was to double the length of the runway to 3,000m and build a jetty as well as a transponder system to identify ships as friend or foe.

The runway extension would allow both Mauritius and India to land bigger aircraft, which would give Delhi “better maritime awareness” in that part of the Indian Ocean, said Mr Singh.

In written answers to questions from the Financial Times, Pravind Jugnauth, Mauritian prime minister, confirmed that “India would be allowed to utilise the facilities in Agaléga subject to prior notification from the competent authorities of Mauritius”.

Afcons, an Indian company, has won the MRs3bn ($87m) contract for the works that would be “fully funded by the government of India on a grant basis” and include “a jetty and an airstrip with associated facilities”, said Mr Jugnauth.

“This project is meant to improve the connectivity with mainland Mauritius and also support economic development of Agaléga to the benefit of the people,” he added.

The planned construction has however provoked opposition among many of the roughly 300 Agalégans, some of whom fear the islands could be ceded to India.

In 1965, before Mauritian independence from the UK, London split another archipelago, the Chagos islands, from Mauritius, forcibly relocating the inhabitants and allowing the US to build a military base on Diego Garcia.

Many Agalégans fear they could suffer a similar fate. “I and all the people of Agaléga are worried about this project because the Mauritian government is hiding many things,” said Arnaud Poulay, an Agaléga resident contacted by phone.

“We are against a military base on Agaléga,” he said. “I am very frightened to be from Agaléga right now.”

José Moirt, a lawyer and rights activist, said Agaléga residents could be expelled to make way for a base. “There is clearly a policy in place for them to leave the island,” he said.

Mr Jugnauth denied any such threat, saying: “Not only will the people of Agaléga be able to continue living on the island, Mauritian sovereignty will not be affected.”

Brahma Chellaney, an Indian expert on security issues, said using Agaléga as a “logistics hub” could help Delhi “sustain naval operations in the south-west Indian Ocean”.

He described China as “an outside power” seeking a naval presence in “India’s maritime backyard” in what he said was a provocation to India and others. The US, France and Britain, he said, were also “getting anxious about what China is up to”, including its recent construction of a military base in Djibouti on the Red Sea as well as ports in Sri Lanka and Pakistan.

When Narendra Modi, India’s prime minister, visited Mauritius in 2015, the two countries signed a memorandum of understanding to “improve sea and air transport facilities” on Agaléga, including the provision of state of the art telecommunications equipment.

This May, Fazila Jeewa-Daureeawoo, Mauritian deputy prime minister, gave a written response to the country’s national assembly in which she said the agreement between India and Mauritius was “subject to confidentiality and cannot be disclosed in part or in full”.

Mauritius, which Mr Modi has referred to as “little India”, has long had close security ties with Delhi. In the 1980s, India helped it establish a coast guard, supplying both ships and personnel. Two-thirds of Mauritius’ 1.4m people are of Indian descent, the majority brought in by Britain as indentured labourers in the 19th century to work on sugar plantations.


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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby kit » 26 Oct 2018 04:01

Chinmay wrote:Defence, connectivity key in PM Narendra Modi’s Japan visit

This tidbit caught my eye
Japan declined to bid for a recent Indian Navy submarine tender because, the ambassador indicated, New Delhi was holding separate talks over Japan’s Soryu-class attack submarine. “This is now being processed internally by India,” he said, and talks were on with a private sector Indian partner.


Lets hope the P75I tender is cancelled, more Scorpenes made and another private shipyard (L & T?) makes the Soryus.


If true that could indeed be the second line for subs !! the scorpenes could get a followup order if modified suitably but that would not be the second line

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby abhik » 26 Oct 2018 14:24

I hope we don't get kicked out of Agaléga after building the runway like in Ayni.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Singha » 26 Oct 2018 14:56

Uk and sinic payrolls are behind such movements with irony being uk stole chagos

Same issue happened in seychelles

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Vips » 27 Oct 2018 05:28

Navy's reconnaissance aircraft makes maiden landing in Car Nicobar, operational edge to the force.

The Indian Navy's Boeing P-8i Long Range Maritime Reconnaissance Anti Submarine Warfare aircraft made its maiden landing at Car Nicobar, giving the force tactical advantage, the Navy said on Friday. This assumes significance as it comes amid the increasing movement of Chinese submarines in the Indian Ocean Region.

The aircraft need not have to come to the mainland in case the Andaman airport is not operational and can land at Car Nicobar instead, which will give it an edge in conducing its operations.

The Andaman and Nicobar archipelago lies at a strategic location, just ahead of the mouth of the crucial Malacca Straits, one of the most important Sea Lanes of Communications (SLOCs).



Great. Need to now expand the airstrip in Lakshwadeep and make it capable of basing some strategic assets there.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby g.sarkar » 27 Oct 2018 06:47

Singha wrote:Perhaps they think handing over cashmere would stop tsp nuclear program and proliferation into noko
That boat sailed out long ago so maybe thats why more relaxed terms now

Slightly old article about Japan on board to stop India in Pokhran-II. Japan may be against China becoming the king, but it does not mean that it wants India to have more influence in Asia. This is Realpolitik 101.
https://www.news18.com/news/opinion/opi ... 47817.html
Narasimha Rao Passed on a Chit to Vajpayee During His Swearing-in. Here’s Why
Vajpayee’s former advisor Ashok Tandon writes that the then BJP regime not only battled tough economic sanctions but also withstood internal as well as external onslaughts after the Pokharan nuclear tests.
Ashok Tandon | August 17, 2018.
.....
Wisner also met PM Rao’s principal secretary AN Varma, and showed him a satellite photograph of the test site and warned that a test would “backfire” against India. Later sometime in mid-December, President Bill Clinton spoke to Rao over phone and the PM assured him that India would act “responsibly”.
These documents also revealed that the US tried to use Japanese influence to stop India from going ahead with the nuclear test. PM Rao later decided against the nuclear tests. And perhaps that was the reason why he gave the go-ahead message while handing over baton to Vajpayee in 1996.
.....
Gautam

John
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby John » 27 Oct 2018 07:43

^ It has to do with Japan's anti nuclear stance nothing to do with curbing influence.

Austin
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby Austin » 27 Oct 2018 08:27

They are both under the guise of anti nuclear stance they want to restrain india becoming a major power in this part of the world , they just toe the west line and try to cover it up with its anti nuclear stance.

chetak
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Postby chetak » 27 Oct 2018 09:15

John wrote:^ It has to do with Japan's anti nuclear stance nothing to do with curbing influence.

japan can have all the anti nuclear stance it wants to have in its own sphere of influence which is basically the islands that they occupy. Why go with the pakis and against India?? It should know its place in the order of things. After all, didn't the amerikis show them their place, in the face of many decades of extremely aggressive nippon hegemonistic ambitions and actual invasions?? How public a stance have they ever taken against ameriki nuke hegemony?? and who is to certify that japan has indeed given up her long pursued but now (temporarily??) interrupted hegemonistic ambitions??

It cannot and will not be allowed to have any say in India's actions. Trade, yes. interference in India's internal affairs, NO.

Anyway, the japanese are now slowly beginning to appreciate the wisdom of India's investment in deterrence and her single minded pursuit of an organically grown, robust and multidimensional deterrence capability.

Japan's island locked reality and the civilizational insecurity that such a stark situation has brought about in its national psyche as well as thinking over the centuries may have something to do with it. Their option less dependence on offshore based fragile supply chains that feed into most of their industrial base as well as the ever present and very real threat of earthquake and tsunami has scarred them.


The implacable historic enmity of the hans and the nokos has unnerved them to the extent that they are now willing to seek alliances with countries that they may have despised before.


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