Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Post Reply
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32283
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by chetak »

The murky role of br@je$h mi$hr@ is very often missed and that gent, despite appearances to the contrary, was no friend of vajpayee, and, nor for that matter, was he a well wisher of India either.
'Distinguished service’ is the common criterion for the Padma awards. However, the perception of 'distinguished' has been quite elastic for our rulers. The awards have often been given away as patronage, as expressions of gratitude for personal services and on whims and fancies of the government. On every Republic Day, the government creates pockets of disappointment and shock while announcing the awards. Many refuse to accept them, many ridicule them. And there’s the hint of a scandal always.
br@je$h mi$hr@ was among those recommended by the raincoat prime minister's office. .
was it because he had been secretly rooting for the other camp or was it because he was telling the mafiaso tales out of school

there were so many moles and saboteurs in the ABA woodpile



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG9exLlMTLU


Algebra : A S Dulat & Kanwal Sibal


Rupesh
BRFite
Posts: 967
Joined: 05 Jul 2008 19:14
Location: Somewhere in South Central India

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by Rupesh »

Chetak Saar, But he did keep Pokharan2 a secret from the khans. other than that he was a durbari.
Cyrano
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5481
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by Cyrano »

Was he in the know ? May be not ;)
fanne
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4282
Joined: 11 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by fanne »

If you hear the last YouTube about dulat, he comes as an illegitimate son of a tspian.
ABV made many blunders - brajesh mishra, dulat , arun Shourie (they dodged susw). Even LkA made mistake with Sudhir Kulkarni. Now you appreciate why Namo has avoided many so called experts like plague. He knows many things that we do not know. This applies to many RW intellectuals as well.
Cyrano
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5481
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by Cyrano »

Agree. If you go over the Panch PraN it becomes clear why NaMo picked the people he did.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32283
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by chetak »

Cyrano wrote:Agree. If you go over the Panch PraN it becomes clear why NaMo picked the people he did.

Janab Cyrano,

and it also explains why so many "sure shot stalwarts" were pissed off because they all had to return the advances that they had taken or the culinary institute would have sent recovery agents to their homes
vikassh
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 68
Joined: 02 Jan 2009 14:09

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by vikassh »

We are living in interesting times 8) 8)

“Many social media users speculated about a possible "Indian hand" in the killing of the Hizbul Mujahideen terrorist in Pakistan's capital.”

https://swarajyamag.com/amp/story/defen ... ndian-hand
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by ramana »

Pak has so many natakkars that the guy might have been killed by any of them.
Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14332
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by Aditya_V »

ramana wrote:Pak has so many natakkars that the guy might have been killed by any of them.
As thier economy goes south it's also easy to hire hit men.
Manish_P
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5414
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by Manish_P »

Data breach: Defence personnel among 16.8 cr citizens whose personal info is hacked
A massive data breach that has implications for national security was unearthed by the Cyberabad Police in Hyderabad, who arrested seven people of a gang allegedly involved in the theft and sale of sensitive data of the government and important organisations, including details of defence personnel as well as the personal and confidential data of about 16.8 crore citizens.

Seven data brokers were arrested from Delhi, the police said, adding that the accused had been operating through three companies (call centres) in Noida and other places. So far it has been found that the accused sold data to at least 100 fraudsters. Investigations are still on, police said.

Sensitive data of defence personnel containing their ranks, email ids, place of posting, etc was found available with the accused, Commissioner Raveendra said.

"This will have serious national security implications. The data of defence and government employees can be used for espionage; to impersonate them and commit serious offences that may jeopardise national security. We are in the process of finding out how this data got leaked and who are the insiders who are doing it," he added.
RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5620
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by RoyG »

The assassination of ISI brigadier is huge. It's open season on their intelligence officers. They are losing whatever little control they have left in these tribal areas and these kinds of losses are very demoralizing.
Bart S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2938
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 00:03

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by Bart S »

^Wrong country, for this thread.
srin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2509
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:13

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by srin »

Interview with Vikram Sood

MeshaVishwas
BRFite
Posts: 869
Joined: 16 Feb 2019 17:20

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by MeshaVishwas »

India, likewise, appeared to avoid taking sides between Washington and Moscow during a conversation Feb. 22 between Indian national security adviser Ajit Kumar Doval and his Russian counterpart, Nikolay Patrushev, another of the leaked documents indicates.
It says that Doval assured Patrushev of India’s support for Russia in multilateral venues and that New Delhi was working to ensure the war did not come up during a Group of 20 meeting chaired by India, despite “considerable pressure” to do so. At the meeting of G-20 foreign ministers in New Delhi a week later, disagreement over Ukraine resulted in a failure to forge a consensus on broader global challenges.

Doval, the leaked document shows, also cited India’s resistance to pressure to support the Western-backed U.N. resolution over Ukraine, saying his country “would not deviate from the principled position it had taken in the past.”
-Washington Post
Hope this info was gained via Patrushev's team else we may need to find the mole and vaporize it.
VinodTK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2982
Joined: 18 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by VinodTK »

Senior DRDO official held in suspected honey trap case with Pakistan links
The official has worked on several strategically significant projects of the DRDO including several missiles. He has been booked under Official Secrets Act.

"This primarily seems to be a case of honeytrap in which the senior scientist has come into contact with Pakistan-based intelligence operatives after he was trapped using photos of women on social media platforms. He was in contact with the Pakistan-based operatives through voice messages and video calls from September-October last year and suspected to have shared some sensitive information with the operatives,” the officer said.
SRajesh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2069
Joined: 04 Aug 2019 22:03

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by SRajesh »

^^other newspapers also carrying this story
Wonder what sensitive project and what been compromised
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18274
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by Rakesh »

Rsatchi wrote:^^other newspapers also carrying this story
Wonder what sensitive project and what been compromised
We do not know and will never know the full extent of the leak, for obvious reasons. Only the concerned officials will know. But below is what he was responsible for. All listed below is sensitive, but the third point below is worrisome.

https://twitter.com/amanroutray7/status ... 71394?s=20 ---> He was the :

- Project Leader for Akash Ground Systems.

- On the team that worked out production orders for Agni Road and Rail Launchers.

- One of the lead Designer for Programme AD, MRSAM and Nirbhay, Prahar, QRSAM, XRSAM and Brahmos.

- Launcher for Mission Shakti.
Manish_P
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5414
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by Manish_P »

Hopefully we were able to also pass on incorrect info (misinformation) to the pakis..

In some cases like this, the mole has been caught much before the news is released (years in some cases) and has been used to pass on deliberate misinformation
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32283
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by chetak »

Rsatchi wrote:^^other newspapers also carrying this story
Wonder what sensitive project and what been compromised
the horny joker gave it up to the pakis just because he had an african toothache....

what a pathetic waste of a career, to have ended up like this, pension gone, freedom gone, respect and honor gone
Brad Goodman
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2426
Joined: 01 Apr 2010 17:00

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by Brad Goodman »

I had seen many of his videos, he was a great orator, had worked with Dr Kalam. Recently was awarded an honorary doctoral degree. Almost on verge of retirement not sure how many years he was leaking intel. What a way to disgrace your family country and yourself
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32283
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by chetak »

Brad Goodman wrote:I had seen many of his videos, he was a great orator, had worked with Dr Kalam. Recently was awarded an honorary doctoral degree. Almost on verge of retirement not sure how many years he was leaking intel. What a way to disgrace your family country and yourself
there are many senior guys who have put out unwanted details of their military related work, projects and awards on the net

what is the need to do so unless they are keen on attracting attention one way or the other

this chapter and verse on the net is against existing regulations and these guys are not even supposed to be be having any presence on the social media

the guy who has been caught is 59 years old and obviously plumping for a cushy and well paid post retirement sinecure with some foreign entity
SRajesh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2069
Joined: 04 Aug 2019 22:03

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by SRajesh »

Rakeshji/Chetakji
A question:
After a certain level : is there no vetting process/psychometric test etc for senior scientist going on to lead sensitive projects
Or is it just like Aam Government job of time bound promotions??
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32283
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by chetak »

China ‘Keen’ To Recruit Gurkha Soldiers Into PLA; Will It Become 3rd Country After UK & India To Hire The Fearless Men......


https://eurasiantimes.com/china-keen-to ... it-become/
Not a single Nepalese Gorkha/ Gurkha will be joining the Indian Army in 2023. The Communist government in Nepal has decided not to allow the 1,300-odd Gorkhas who join the Indian Army annually to be recruited. The predicament has been the newly launched four-year-service Agnipath (Fire Warriors) scheme of the Indian Army.

But another chilling effect could be waiting in the already frosty Indo-Nepalese ties. Communist China, which has long been intrigued by the motivation behind Nepalese youth joining the Indian Army, may seek the Communist government in Nepal to allow the Gurkhas to join the People’s Liberation Army (PLA).

This is an apparent effort by China, which under the Mao Zedong plan wanted to gobble up Nepal as one of the ‘Five Fingers’ of occupied Tibet, to exploit the Communist government in Nepal to create an anti-India sentiment in the Himalayan nation.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32283
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by chetak »

Rsatchi wrote:Rakeshji/Chetakji
A question:
After a certain level : is there no vetting process/psychometric test etc for senior scientist going on to lead sensitive projects
Or is it just like Aam Government job of time bound promotions??
there may be a vetting process for director and project head positions at important DRDO labs.

Many vital position holders are monitored regularly.

But that happens in many countries across the world
sajaym
BRFite
Posts: 315
Joined: 04 Feb 2019 09:11

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by sajaym »

I feel maybe the Government is not doing enough to send a strong message to horny-guys-wannabe-spies. I feel that just like in the case of terrorists in J&K, the houses of spies should also be bulldozed.
Prem Kumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4218
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by Prem Kumar »

Too many spies have settled abroad (notably in the US) after betraying their country

Examples need to be made of them. If not in a Litvinenko-manner, at least in the form of unfortunate accidents
srin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2509
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:13

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by srin »

There are many innocent ways someone can get trapped and then reeled in to self-incriminate more and more. It can start with a simple whatsapp video call hextortion and then progress deeper and deeper from there.

I'm not saying that this is what happened, but this could also have been how he got trapped and blackmailed.

But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter *to him* how he got trapped - what matters is what all info got shared, and what the heck our counter intel was doing.
But the modus operandi needs to be understood and the DRDO (and other institutions in strategic space) conduct awareness and red team exercises.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32283
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by chetak »

Prem Kumar wrote:Too many spies have settled abroad (notably in the US) after betraying their country

Examples need to be made of them. If not in a Litvinenko-manner, at least in the form of unfortunate accidents

Accused name: Pradeep Kurulkar
Age: 60 yrs
Means of ensnarement: Honey trapped
60 saal ki umr mein



Image

Image
RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5620
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by RoyG »

srin wrote:There are many innocent ways someone can get trapped and then reeled in to self-incriminate more and more. It can start with a simple whatsapp video call hextortion and then progress deeper and deeper from there.

I'm not saying that this is what happened, but this could also have been how he got trapped and blackmailed.

But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter *to him* how he got trapped - what matters is what all info got shared, and what the heck our counter intel was doing.
But the modus operandi needs to be understood and the DRDO (and other institutions in strategic space) conduct awareness and red team exercises.
For every 1 they catch 10 more are there evading detection. It's the nature of the business.
vikassh
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 68
Joined: 02 Jan 2009 14:09

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by vikassh »

Another old timer dispatched by unknown gunmen in Lahore. Whosoever is doing it, is doing a great service to Bharat. This guy was still trying to revive old sleeper cells.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/wor ... s?from=mdr
RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5620
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by RoyG »

Penetrate, puppeteer, divide
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by ramana »

Another case of honey trap in DRDO(Pune) and IAF (Bengaluru).
Same phone numbers.

Some wag suggested chastity belts for DRDO and military personnel.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18274
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by Rakesh »

ramana wrote:Another case of honey trap in DRDO(Pune) and IAF (Bengaluru).
Same phone numbers.

Some wag suggested chastity belts for DRDO and military personnel.
Pune: After DRDO Scientist Kurulkar, Now IAF Officer Nikhil Shende Found Providing Defence Secrets To Pakistan
https://www.punekarnews.in/pune-after-d ... -pakistan/
15 May 2023
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18274
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by Rakesh »

How does Vivek Raghuvanshi - a defence reporter - get his hands on classified information?

https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/statu ... 17601?s=20 ---> CBI files case against Vivek Raghuvanshi, a defence journalist under Officials Secrets Act (OSA) on allegations of sharing classified information about DRDO, Defence Projects & armed forces with foreign countries. Multiple raids in Jaipur and NCR. Reported By: @IndiaToday
Tanaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4521
Joined: 21 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by Tanaji »

The OSA is draconian: effectively anything can be declared a state secret after the arrest… its up to you to show that its not common knowledge.

Not sure what happened here though, he might have ticked off the wrong people or might be genuinely dancing for a foreign power
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by ramana »

Rakesh wrote:How does Vivek Raghuvanshi - a defence reporter - get his hands on classified information?

https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/statu ... 17601?s=20 ---> CBI files case against Vivek Raghuvanshi, a defence journalist under Officials Secrets Act (OSA) on allegations of sharing classified information about DRDO, Defence Projects & armed forces with foreign countries. Multiple raids in Jaipur and NCR. Reported By: @IndiaToday
Most journalists get access.
Note locations.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by ramana »

Tanaji wrote:The OSA is draconian: effectively anything can be declared a state secret after the arrest… its up to you to show that its not common knowledge.

Not sure what happened here though, he might have ticked off the wrong people or might be genuinely dancing for a foreign power
What kind of post is this? How often OSA been invoked since 1950? Why not compare to US and UK laws?
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32283
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by chetak »

Tanaji wrote:The OSA is draconian: effectively anything can be declared a state secret after the arrest… its up to you to show that its not common knowledge.

Not sure what happened here though, he might have ticked off the wrong people or might be genuinely dancing for a foreign power
Janab,

90% of Indian journos make money by peddling info which they get from their "sources" like the babooze, desk officers, peons etc. This is sold to companies, fixers, middlemen, embassies, and foreigners from weapon systems, and other companies, looking to leverage their way into the Indian MIL market

It is like a lot like industrial espionage but with serious NATSEC ramifications

remember buddi butt and her radia tapes, peddling ministerial portfolios and political intelligence that her pliable sources from the then PMO fed to people like her for a hefty price. These journos, in turn monetize their info by selling to other interested parties in the food chain

That is how the lootyens goondas, the pakis, the cheeni and a whole lot of phoren embassies, NGOs, foundations survived in dilli

Modi, in one fell stroke, has cut off this parasitical enterprise at the knees

This is very lucrative for all concerned

the private track thoo, and the 5 star aman ki tamasha free loading brigade are the ones which are the worst hit
Tanaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4521
Joined: 21 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by Tanaji »

ramana wrote:
What kind of post is this? How often OSA been invoked since 1950? Why not compare to US and UK laws?
Ramana I still stand by the statement that the law is draconian. It was supposed to be reviewed and updated in 2017 or so but possibly Covid put paid to that. The problem is that Section 5 of the act is overly broad, even by the standards of having a need to have a blunt instrument to tackle National security threats. The government gets to define anything and everything as an official secret even if it’s in public domain.
The issue that it causes is that it allows for creative interpretations: both for babooze trying to cover up incompetence and for hizzoners to jump in under the guise of fundamental freedoms. Such laws need to be precise to get convictions… This is another of the umpteen acts that are a legacy of the British used against the colonies.


The wiki entry for this act is absolute garbage, probably authored by a denizen of JNU. Here is a semi decent link:

https://blog.ipleaders.in/official-secr ... sis/?amp=1

Note the various definitions as per the act in the above link. Pretty sure the GoI can effectively argue that the contents of BR website are “secrets” and prosecute under the act…

The act in its original is at

https://www.indiacode.nic.in/bitstream/ ... 923-19.pdf

Please note that I have no opinion on that journalist: chetakji might very well be correct.
Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 8965
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion - July 2018

Post by Sachin »

Post Reply