Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

gaurav.p · Post by **gaurav.p** » 20 Feb 2019 18:30

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/10981646 ... 81943.html

Former Vice Chief of Indian Air Force, Air Marshal SB Deo (retd) offers 4 missiles of different types to Indian armed forces. He has personally designed & developed all the missiles(DDM?). It includes a 297-km strike range cruise missile Vel and stand-off missile Khagantak

This epitomizes Make in India, foreign exchange content is less than 10%. We have 2 glide bombs of different caliber and a light-weight cruise missile with a range of 297 km that carries a small warhead. They could be inducted in less than 6 months

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 20 Feb 2019 20:51

Am I reading it right? 154 km!! that'll cover half (latitude wise) of useful populated areas of bakistan.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Feb 2019 21:07

have these been tested? what is the propulsion?

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 20 Feb 2019 21:11

gaurav.p wrote:https://twitter.com/ANI/status/10981646 ... 81943.html

Former Vice Chief of Indian Air Force, Air Marshal SB Deo (retd) offers 4 missiles of different types to Indian armed forces. He has personally designed & developed all the missiles(DDM?). It includes a 297-km strike range cruise missile Vel and stand-off missile Khagantak

This epitomizes Make in India, foreign exchange content is less than 10%. We have 2 glide bombs of different caliber and a light-weight cruise missile with a range of 297 km that carries a small warhead. They could be inducted in less than 6 months

It was first showcased in AI13. It's a crazy pet project with absolutely no ground in reality.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Feb 2019 21:20

I am glad he was into weapons development. Really glad.
Many US weapons are developed as initiatives of military officers and later get transferred to MIC for production and improvement.

gaurav.p · Post by **gaurav.p** » 20 Feb 2019 22:08

Singhaji, No idea picked it up from SM

Interesting to have ex-IAF pursue such crazy pet projects. Having played the game and more connected to the different entities it would be easier to get things moving. As ramana-ji said, this has happened for many US weapons (some hints to the nanha?).

<edited>
It takes some spine to try to keep such pet projects afloat esp in India. Also there is no age to be a part of start-up.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Feb 2019 22:16

I am sure the founders of many aerospace giants were also in that mode once.
wright brothers had a cycle workshop and little else.

GOI should define a framework in which private cos can come and test their weapons and ideas for free on Govt owned ranges and provide seed funding for all such ideas. out of 10 ideas, usually 1 works really well.

atleast he has the guts to stand up there and try things, despite the hecklers and critics.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 20 Feb 2019 22:56

I have deleted sivab's post. No point in that post.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 20 Feb 2019 23:29

gaurav.p wrote:https://twitter.com/ANI/status/10981646 ... 81943.html

Former Vice Chief of Indian Air Force, Air Marshal SB Deo (retd) offers 4 missiles of different types to Indian armed forces. He has personally designed & developed all the missiles(DDM?). It includes a 297-km strike range cruise missile Vel and stand-off missile Khagantak

This epitomizes Make in India, foreign exchange content is less than 10%. We have 2 glide bombs of different caliber and a light-weight cruise missile with a range of 297 km that carries a small warhead. They could be inducted in less than 6 months

I wish the Vice Chief well. But that is very very far from a product!

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 20 Feb 2019 23:34

It has a lightweight carbon fibre body, seems to have fixed wings, but that could be changed to foldable ones.
I remember seeing an article on Livefist a few years ago.

GoI / DRDO should let this be tested. He owns IP rights, but someone should help test, refine, re-test, and give to industry to produce and GoI/MOD/IAF purchase it if it passes. That is the way to go !!!

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 21 Feb 2019 12:23

When chinese dudes does these sort of UAV/craft models at Zhuhai and chola faithfully splashes it all over the cheen thread, we all are obliged to shiver. Also we are urged to not under-estimate chinese enterprise/entrepreunership/private sector etc and try to replicate the same here in India.

But when this sage gentlemen (after serving the nation, he could be playing gully-cricket with his grandkids and sipping rum) is standing in scorching sun next to his model, we are all suddenly staff writers for Flight Global ? I wish the gentleman the very best and hope to see more of this.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 21 Feb 2019 19:54

He mentions the missile range and induction timeline, for an untested missile?
What is this- a Prototype or just the empty shell to represent an idea?

gaurav.p · Post by **gaurav.p** » 21 Feb 2019 21:20

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/24330/ ... India_2019

BEL Signs MoU With JSR Dynamics Glide Weapons, Cruise Missiles At Aero India 2019

Good luck to vice chief. Now the gruelling phase begins.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 21 Feb 2019 22:39

Aero India 2019: India’s Nirbhay cruise missile to make final developmental flight in April

https://www.janes.com/article/86739/aer ... t-in-april

The Nirbhay cruise missile developed by India’s Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE) is set to make its final developmental trial in April, more than a year after the weapon successfully completed its previous flight test, an ADE official told Jane’s during the 20–24 February Aero India 2019 exhibition in Bangalore.

The official said that all issues related to the missile’s control hardware and software have been resolved, and that preparations are under way for a low-altitude flight test, which is expected to be its final developmental trial. The official declined to provide specific details on the rectified issues.

The 6 m-long, nuclear-capable, land-attack Nirbhay has a diameter of 0.52 m and is fitted with two tapering-chord fold-out (backwards) wings with a span of 2.7 m. The one-tonne missile is brought up to the takeover speed of its turbofan engine by a jettisonable solid propellant booster. The missile cruises at a speed of 270–305 m/s, and its maximum strike range is claimed to be 1,000 km.

The ADE official said that the missile programme is on track and expressed optimism that the weapon will soon be moving into the production-standard configuration, followed by the operational testing phase. He added that once the technology behind the missile is certified, there is a proposal to develop an air-launched variant of the Nirbhay within two to three years.

The intended air-launched variant would be developed to be fired from Su-30MKI multirole fighter aircraft, each of which would carry a maximum of two missiles.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 21 Feb 2019 22:57

V Interesting Brahmos-NG will have AWACS killer role besides anti-land and anti-sea

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... s&from=mdr

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 21 Feb 2019 23:02

The TVC Ramjet Engine can be shaped to give it A2A capability against slow targets like AWACS or Tanker at 300 km range plus Brahmos-NG is already advertised as dual mode seeker IIR/ARH.

Seems like our discussion on BRF multiple times of giving it A2A capabilty is coming true

srin · Post by **srin** » 21 Feb 2019 23:37

^^^ Another key takeaway is that it'll fit into torpedo tubes (and I'm hoping it'll be the 533mm tubes), which hopefully means that even our current SSKs can fire it. And we don't need to search for subs with VLS tubes for P75I.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Feb 2019 23:44

choti mooh bari baat sarkar, but anyone noticed the army official in green dress behind Deo sir ?

BEL signing MoU with JSR Dynamics at the Aero India 2019

dress matches vietnamese army

question is why is he there at MOU signing? I wonder if another MOU were signed....or maybe just as brahmos was jv this too is a kind of informal india-vietnam JV

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Feb 2019 23:47

gent is young, perhaps military attache or member of a defence delegation in various talks here.

time for cheen to shiver at what we are baking together.

NachiketM · Post by **NachiketM** » 21 Feb 2019 23:50

prasannasimha wrote:Nirbhay trials in March. Seems Manik engine has been fully validated for use on Nirbhay

No, it is not the Manik engine but the Russian supplied NPO Saturn 36MT mini turbofan.

http://idrw.org/nirbhay-missile-prepped-for-new-trial/

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 22 Feb 2019 00:05

The gentleman (white beard) that is holding the blue folder is Air Marshal S B Deo (retd) - Managing Director, JSR Dynamics Pvt Ltd

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Feb 2019 00:29

AdityaM wrote:He mentions the missile range and induction timeline, for an untested missile?
What is this- a Prototype or just the empty shell to represent an idea?

AM Deo (R) was vice chief of staff and knows what's needed. Please give some credit. It's a engineering mock up.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 22 Feb 2019 06:26

Wish him all the best!

Meanwhile,
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... s&from=mdr

Sharing that the idea of integrating the Brahmos NG with the LCA came from Defence Secretary Sanjay Mitra, the CEO said that the weapon will give a competitive edge to the LCA when it comes to export order.

“We have done system studies and performance models. We have also found what modifications need to be done to LCA wing to carry the Brahmos as well as some changes to the missile. Both these studies are done and the feasibility study shows that the missile can travel over a range of 300 km,” Mishra said.

The Brahmos NG – which will also be integrated with the Su 30 MKI fighter jets – is being designed to take down slow moving `force multipliers’ deep within enemy territory. This would make the missile an `AWACS killer’ that could take down an enemy early warning and control system even after being fired from the Indian side of the border. Similarly, it can target enemy refuelling aircraft and transporters.

“The missile will have an anti land and an anti ship role as well, that is the plan. We will have a timeline of 3-4 years in which we would like to finish the final configuration tests and start delivering the missile from year four plus,” Mishra said.

The other potential for the NG version could be to be a prime weapon for submarines as well as it would be designed to be launched from torpedo tubes.

John · Post by **John** » 22 Feb 2019 06:41

Austin wrote:V Interesting Brahmos-NG will have AWACS killer role besides anti-land and anti-sea

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... s&from=mdr

Existing air launched Brahmos should have similar capability I and few others here speculated that before. But since only single Brahmos can be carried by Su-30mki it’s probably more prudent to exploit that capability with NG allowing multiple shots at target.

souravB · Post by **souravB** » 22 Feb 2019 07:02

Noob pooch from nanha jingo.
If Bramhos M/NG can do a range of 300 KM with half the weight of standard Bramhos, the range of standard Bramhos should be well over 500 KM. Why are we then not just increase the range of standard Bramhos using Ducted Ramjet &/or other improvements to 1000+ KM and not bother with Nirbhay at all. Will we absolutely miss loitering capability? Is it a money issue? The research could be well directed towards making the terminal stage of Bramhos a hypersonic one.

John · Post by **John** » 22 Feb 2019 07:21

souravB wrote:Noob pooch from nanha jingo.
If Bramhos M/NG can do a range of 300 KM with half the weight of standard Bramhos, the range of standard Bramhos should be well over 500 KM. Why are we then not just increase the range of standard Bramhos using Ducted Ramjet &/or other improvements to 1000+ KM and not bother with Nirbhay at all. Will we absolutely miss loitering capability? Is it a money issue? The research could be well directed towards making the terminal stage of Bramhos a hypersonic one.

We are seeing the move away from vanilla turbojet/prop LACM to more stealthier CM and ramjet/scramjet land attack missiles, Nirbhay was in development before that shift and delayed due to multiple factors. I suspect Nirbhay could serve as a basis for improved stealthier variant.

That said Brahmos is certainly more expensive than a cruise missile it would be interesting to see if NG brings down the cost. So Nirbhay could still fill a niche till NG is inducted.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 22 Feb 2019 08:30

Couple of areas where I don't see Nirbhay being replaced by Brahmos-type missile anytime soon:

1) The range of Nirbhay starts at 1000 Km. Will go upto 1500 and 2000 Km with subsequent versions

2) Nirbhay can fly nap of the earth + go around obstacles with terrain mapping capabilities. A Brahmos flying supersonic will not have the reaction time to maneuver its way through obstacles at low altitudes to avoid detection

3) Nirbhay technologies can be ported over to UAV/UCAVs and vice versa. That's the class of weapons it belongs to

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 22 Feb 2019 09:21

gaurav.p wrote:http://www.defenseworld.net/news/24330/ ... India_2019

BEL Signs MoU With JSR Dynamics Glide Weapons, Cruise Missiles At Aero India 2019

Good luck to vice chief. Now the gruelling phase begins.

Great news. It is hopefully first of many MoU that PSU will sigh with such persons with designs and go on to build such weapons.

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 22 Feb 2019 12:35

gaurav.p wrote:https://twitter.com/ANI/status/10981646 ... 81943.html

One can clearly see the BEL logo on the top right of the front display placard. So they already previously have had some agreement with BEL.
BTW:Bharat Electronics jumps 2% on deal with JSR Dynamics. Markets knows something already which we don't know..

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 23 Feb 2019 04:07

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1098830723820056576 ---> As far as the Nirbhay cruise missile concerned, it is slated for a final developmental trial in the next few months where low-level flying will be demonstrated.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1098844514364514304 ---> Please understand that developmental trials are not the end. There are UATTs. Then there are UETs. Then there are pure induction related trials as well. So Nirbhay has some distance to cover.

UATT = User Assisted Technical Trial
UET = User Evaluation Trial

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Feb 2019 10:46

beautiful video by defencenews india of Akash desert and obstacle mobility trials and various types of shooting trials on approaching, receding and crossing lakshya targets

https://www.facebook.com/IndiaDefenseNe ... 637/?t=109

watch with sound, you can hear some control room talk and engineers happy in background.

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 23 Feb 2019 11:16

BTW I saw on Twitter somewhere that JSR in JSR dynamics stands for Jay Shree Ram...!!

Glad to see someone like a Senior IAF offcr coming into this field, that some these top ranking officials dont just want to be white elephants in some MNC using their contacts and weight, but looking to something hands on. Even if a handful of such officrs who truly appreciate technology and understand need for indigenisation join start up market, we can see true technological transformation in pvt industry.

I wish him good luck. Though some of the bombastic things being thrown around are unrealistic, like can be inducted within 6 months. But I wish he succeed. Good to see heavy weight PSU supporting him.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 23 Feb 2019 11:33

JayS wrote:BTW I saw on Twitter somewhere that JSR in JSR dynamics stands for Jay Shree Ram...!!

Glad to see someone like a Senior IAF offcr coming into this field, that some these top ranking officials dont just want to be white elephants in some MNC using their contacts and weight, but looking to something hands on. Even if a handful of such officrs who truly appreciate technology and understand need for indigenisation join start up market, we can see true technological transformation in pvt industry.

I wish him good luck. Though some of the bombastic things being thrown around are unrealistic, like can be inducted within 6 months. But I wish he succeed. Good to see heavy weight PSU supporting him.

https://twitter.com/Chopsyturvey/status ... 5293274113

IAF's former Vice Chief SB Deo is now pursuing his passion for developing a stand off weapon and set up JSR (Jai Shree Ram) Dynamics. Here seen at his stall.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 23 Feb 2019 21:30

Do we have any ABM system involving PAD/AAD operational today ?

I suppose we have Green Pine and Indian system deployed along for surveillance purpose

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 23 Feb 2019 22:45

From NPO-Mash presentation ( who are co-partners of Brahmos JV ) Zircon/Brahmos 2 are the same design with different designation ......Speed of Mach 9 is what Zircon is quoted to be tested and Dr Pathak in interview to FORCE latest issue quotes Hypersonic Brahmos speed at Mach 8 or 9

http://forceindia.net/interview/directo ... ar-mishra/

Check the Image of Zircon and Brahmos 2 , Designed by same organisation NPO-Mash

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... cification

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 23 Feb 2019 22:51

JayS wrote:BTW I saw on Twitter somewhere that JSR in JSR dynamics stands for Jay Shree Ram...!!

Glad to see someone like a Senior IAF offcr coming into this field, that some these top ranking officials dont just want to be white elephants in some MNC using their contacts and weight, but looking to something hands on. Even if a handful of such officrs who truly appreciate technology and understand need for indigenisation join start up market, we can see true technological transformation in pvt industry.

I wish him good luck. Though some of the bombastic things being thrown around are unrealistic, like can be inducted within 6 months. But I wish he succeed. Good to see heavy weight PSU supporting him.

Oh Good Lord that name will be such a kick in the unmentionables to the likes of Bedi, Saikat and the rest of the leftist fraternity etc.

On topic, apparently he also has a tieup with Tonbo Imaging to use a seeker developed by them (EO/IR) and displayed that at AI.

It will be truly incredible if he *does* develop a range of relatively inexpensive munitions for the IAF.

siddhu · Post by **siddhu** » 23 Feb 2019 23:08

NachiketM wrote:
prasannasimha wrote:Nirbhay trials in March. Seems Manik engine has been fully validated for use on Nirbhay
No, it is not the Manik engine but the Russian supplied NPO Saturn 36MT mini turbofan.

http://idrw.org/nirbhay-missile-prepped-for-new-trial/

It will use Manik engine for the next test.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 24 Feb 2019 00:58

Austin wrote:The TVC Ramjet Engine can be shaped to give it A2A capability against slow targets like AWACS or Tanker at 300 km range plus Brahmos-NG is already advertised as dual mode seeker IIR/ARH.

Seems like our discussion on BRF multiple times of giving it A2A capabilty is coming true

Yes at last. I feel like a number of stalwarts from here should be in these organizations

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 24 Feb 2019 01:15

siddhu wrote:
NachiketM wrote:
No, it is not the Manik engine but the Russian supplied NPO Saturn 36MT mini turbofan.

http://idrw.org/nirbhay-missile-prepped-for-new-trial/
It will use Manik engine for the next test.

Yep Manik in Nirbhay next test. GTRE guy confirmed Manik is good to go.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 25 Feb 2019 19:04

https://indianexpress.com/article/what- ... e-5600307/

The missile is getting publicised. A good development. Considering its only a matter of time that it is successfully tested.