Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

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brar_w
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby brar_w » 12 Mar 2019 00:58

abhik wrote:The latest version of American MLRS does 150km, I think we will see further improvement in range in future versions.


TCGMLRS is good for about 139 km with the changes accepted by the US Army. It becomes a 150 km system only when combined with other changes (slightly larger, though still pod compliant, motor) offered, but not yet accepted, by Lockheed Martin. But GMLRS it is a 227 mm diameter system.

100 km for Pinaka should be plenty of stand off range given PA targets given their lack of depth and the sheer numbers that the IA can put in once it cranks up production for this variant.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby JTull » 12 Mar 2019 01:27

This isn't Pinaka-3 but just a guided version of the rockets for Pinaka-2.

It seems the development of desi PGMs has been accorded priority under Modi govt. They had clearly envisaged them as first use capability.

90kms means that any conventional attack on civilian population will be responded with serious amount of carnage. We should produce 1000s per year.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby suryag » 12 Mar 2019 18:48

This pinaka stuff is confusing, there are mk2 rockets and there is mk2 system, DDM being DDM can hardly distinguish between a guerilla and a gorilla

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kakarat » 12 Mar 2019 19:05

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1105458431295713281

VIDEO: Guided Pinaka in its third test today at the Pokhran ranges.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby nam » 12 Mar 2019 19:19

The rocket fired is longer than standard pinaka rocket. The front is peeking out .. which is not the case for regular Pinaka rounds.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby sankum » 12 Mar 2019 21:19

The 'guided' Pinaka is basically a Pinaka-II with a modern inertial navigation system. As such, Pinaka-II weighs 325 kg with a warhead weight of 112 kg and the rocket length is 5.175 metres. The Mk-II rocket is larger and longer than the Mk-I rocket & achieves greater range.
Saurav Jha twitter

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby JTull » 12 Mar 2019 22:44

nam wrote:The rocket fired is longer than standard pinaka rocket. The front is peeking out .. which is not the case for regular Pinaka rounds.


Same as before
Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kakarat » 14 Mar 2019 15:30

https://twitter.com/writetake/status/11 ... 1175409664
Just In
#MPATGM successfully test-fired at Pokhran today. There was a test yesterday as well. These were the first 2 tests in the guided mode, say @DRDO_India sources.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 14 Mar 2019 15:33

YKakarat beat me to it, these in high numbers will be very useful along thee LOC and any future recovery of Gligit Baltistan.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 14 Mar 2019 15:35

JTull wrote:
nam wrote:The rocket fired is longer than standard pinaka rocket. The front is peeking out .. which is not the case for regular Pinaka rounds.


Same as before
Image


These are dummy tips usually added for R Day parade. Real rocket is completely enclosed in the pod.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Singha » 14 Mar 2019 15:53

yes brahmos has a similar dummy tableau showing missile coming out....all plastic all yindu all bluffing fakes.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kakarat » 14 Mar 2019 21:46

https://twitter.com/writetake/status/11 ... 8130591745
From yesterday's #MPATGM successful test-firing (guided mode) at Pokhran.

Image

https://twitter.com/writetake/status/11 ... 6104955905
And what a beauty this!
From yesterday's #MPATGM successful test-firing (guided mode) at Pokhran.

Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kakarat » 14 Mar 2019 21:49

https://twitter.com/writetake/status/11 ... 8662097921
And, this is from today's #MPATGM successful test-firing (guided mode) at Pokhran.

Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kakarat » 14 Mar 2019 22:53

https://twitter.com/writetake/status/11 ... 8332316673
VIDEO of yesterday's #MPATGM successful test-firing (guided mode) at Pokhran.


https://twitter.com/writetake/status/11 ... 9955798021
VIDEO of today's #MPATGM successful test-firing (guided mode) at Pokhran.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby JTull » 14 Mar 2019 23:03

What's the extra bit that's needed to qualify IIR seeker of this missile for a short/medium range AAM like ASRAAM?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 14 Mar 2019 23:13

The wave bands will likely be different, the dome as well (speed) and image processing as well. Its not going to be a drop in drop fit.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Singha » 14 Mar 2019 23:23

is that vast sheet of smoke and flame normal for MPATGMs in general?

I would in theory have preferred a quiet stealthy fire to mask the position of the firing unit.

from this fagot missile slowmo, the projectile itself has hardly any visible flame, but the launch is a flamesy event like our MPATGM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkGWj5kfaGA

khan saheb's javelin has lower flames than fagot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5BXArdVlNA

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby JTull » 14 Mar 2019 23:41

If BEL is already working on IRST 'that's better than OLS-30' for MWF, and we've a working IIR seeker then surely we've enough knowhow for a short range AAM. Eagerly waiting for news on that front

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Singha » 14 Mar 2019 23:43

the challenges of a missile may be related to size,cooling and packing density into a very small space vs on a aircraft.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 15 Mar 2019 00:01

JTull wrote:If BEL is already working on IRST 'that's better than OLS-30' for MWF, and we've a working IIR seeker then surely we've enough knowhow for a short range AAM. Eagerly waiting for news on that front


We have an AON cleared for a D&D project for an IRST replacement. A long way from an operational product.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 15 Mar 2019 00:07

Singha wrote:is that vast sheet of smoke and flame normal for MPATGMs in general?

I would in theory have preferred a quiet stealthy fire to mask the position of the firing unit.

from this fagot missile slowmo, the projectile itself has hardly any visible flame, but the launch is a flamesy event like our MPATGM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkGWj5kfaGA

khan saheb's javelin has lower flames than fagot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5BXArdVlNA


Usually there is a kick-out motor, then the actual launch motor kicks in. This amount of flame is indeed unusual.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KIgWgzGHXI

Perhaps its a timed exposure to the initial launch.
The first test showed this soon after launch.
Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby nachiket » 15 Mar 2019 00:36

Are my eyes playing tricks or do the first two pictures seem to be from later in the day than the third one? The sky seems awfully dark in them.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby sudeepj » 15 Mar 2019 00:55

Singha wrote:is that vast sheet of smoke and flame normal for MPATGMs in general?

I would in theory have preferred a quiet stealthy fire to mask the position of the firing unit.

from this fagot missile slowmo, the projectile itself has hardly any visible flame, but the launch is a flamesy event like our MPATGM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkGWj5kfaGA

khan saheb's javelin has lower flames than fagot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5BXArdVlNA


You are calling this giant 20ft x 80ft plume of smoke for javelin 'low'.. For the next 30 seconds, every gun on the battlefield will know where the javelin wala is. In comparison, our MPATGM appears relatively smokeless in the day picture.. In the night picture, you are seeing that flash.

Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Prem Kumar » 15 Mar 2019 00:59

Tarmak has 2 videos: day launch & night launch. In the videos, its clear that there is an initial booster to get the missile to clear the launch tube, followed by the main booster.

For the initial boost, we can see a smaller flame in the musharraf, compared to the main booster.

In the daytime launch video, the flame for the initial boost seems reasonable - comparable to Javelin. In the night time launch, it seems more pronounced - it needs to be compared to a night launch of Javelin (see below). Even for Javelin, we can clearly some amount of smoke from the main booster blowing back into the face of the GI Joe who is launching

Video of night launch of Javelin. The flame/sparks appear a lot more pronounced

https://youtu.be/fCNq1x4_VtI?t=69

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 15 Mar 2019 02:23

Great stuff Prem. Yes, its a case of "a timed exposure to the initial launch." The camera has been set up for maximal time exposure, i.e. visual capture at low light conditions and hence the brief burst of flame, and set of sparks appears as if its a very big deal. We can literally see the same flame/sparks pattern with the Javelin video.

Great digging.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kakarat » 15 Mar 2019 17:12

https://twitter.com/writetake/status/11 ... 1489284097
A great capture of #MPATGM release from yesterday's test at Pokhran.

Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby dmun » 15 Mar 2019 17:27

How many more tests untill it goes into production?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 15 Mar 2019 17:31

Many more I see, they need to move from the rig to a real prototype test it in summer, winter, desert, High altitude etc.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ks_sachin » 15 Mar 2019 18:10

Then they will test if my grandma can fire it!

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby sudeepj » 15 Mar 2019 19:33

Any details on the specs of this mpatgm?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ashthor » 15 Mar 2019 22:07

Aditya_V wrote:Many more I see, they need to move from the rig to a real prototype test it in summer, winter, desert, High altitude etc.


Cant they qualify it in iterations? Say first for plains and deserts then High altitude

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby milindc » 15 Mar 2019 23:49

Good news is that VEM is the private sector partner on this. We might see some acceleration in terms of delivery

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Vips » 16 Mar 2019 02:16

We are half way through march and no news or Notam info so far for the Nirbhay test that was scheduled for this month.Hope it happens soon.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Vips » 16 Mar 2019 03:10

US offers Javelin Anti-Tank Guided Missiles again to India.

The Javelin is included in the Defense Technology and Trade Initiative (DTTI) between India and the US, which means that that the US administration is ready to share technology and to co-produce and co-develop future weapon systems in India.

Lockheed Martin, india US ties, Javelin Anti-Tank Guided Missiles, India, make in india, aero india show, DRDO, Foreign Military Sales route
The Americans have so far been reluctant to part with the latest generation of technology for Javelin, but the MoD source said Washington has now agreed to part with new-generation Javelin for co-production in India.

US aerospace giant Lockheed Martin is ready to offer Javelin Anti-tank Guided Missiles through the Defense Technology and Trade Initiative (DTTI) between India and US, and `MAKE II’ set, say company officials. Speaking to Financial Express Online, Haley Donoho, International Business Development, Javelin said, “We are offering the Javelin ATGM through the DTTI route and if the deal is finalised it will be made in India under `Make II’ category.”

The Javelin is included in the Defense Technology and Trade Initiative (DTTI) between India and the US, which means that that the US administration is ready to share technology and to co-produce and co-develop future weapon systems in India. Through the efforts of the DTTI, more than 50 per cent of the original or pathfinder projects have reached project agreement. Projects including signature aperture radar, hot-engine technology for indigenous light combat aircraft and stealth-coating technology are critical for widening the scope for DTTI cooperation.

Donoho in response to a question said that, “We are very willing to share technology, and we are very willing to co-produce and co-develop future versions of the weapon system in India.”

The Americans have so far been reluctant to part with the latest generation of technology for Javelin, but the MoD source said Washington has now agreed to part with new-generation Javelin for co-production in India.

Sources confirmed that Lockheed Martin at the recently concluded Aero-India show had made a presentation again on Javelin Anti-tank Guided Missiles, and further discussions will take place.

India had come very close to purchasing the Javelin weapon, through the Foreign Military Sales route, but the US had refused to transfer technology for the system and the proposal finally fell through in 2010.

It may be recalled that the US ‘Javelin’ ATGM built by Lockheed Martin has a range of 4000 meters, has already been rejected once when Indian Army chose Spike of Israel which has a range of only 2500 meters.

The tender for acquiring ATGM from countries including Israel, France and US was cancelled earlier after a decision was taken to get the indigenous missiles from the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

Last October, after successfully flight testing for the second time the indigenously developed Man Portable Anti-Tank Guided Missile (MPATGM), production facility for manufacturing these missiles was inaugurated at Bharat Dynamics Ltd (BDL) unit at Bhanur. The mass production of the man portable anti-tank guided missile (MPATGM) is likely to start in 2021.

Financial Express Online has reported earlier that the MPATGM is a third-generation anti-tank guided missile (ATGM), which has been under development by DRDO in partnership with Indian defense contractor VEM Technologies Ltd. since 2015. This missile is fitted with a high-explosive anti-tank (HEAT) warhead and has a maximum engagement range of about 2.5 Kms. Eight static tests of rocket motor have been conducted to achieve consistent ballistic performance in 2017.

In 2017, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) had called off the planned purchase of Israeli Spike-MR which was valued at $ 500 mn and had directed the DRDO to indigenously work on man-portable fire and forget guided missile.

These missiles are going to equip India Army’s both infantry and mechanised units by the early 2020s. Also, as has been reported earlier in the media, DRDO has also been working on the third-generation ATGM Nag which is in advanced stage of testing, fired from the Nag Missile Carrier (NAMICA). The Indian army says it requires at least 40,000 anti-tank guided missiles in the next 20 years to equip 382 infantry battalions and 44 mechanized infantry units with new-generation weapons and replace the second- generation French-made Milan missile.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby srin » 16 Mar 2019 06:59

^^^ Now that's a clue that MPATGM is coming on quite well !

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ramana » 16 Mar 2019 08:00

MPATGM effect.
US doesn't want tactical weapons also to be developed by India.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Singha » 16 Mar 2019 10:15

lot of dalals will be pushing for one time 'emergency' import of 10,000 javelins for a few billion.

fortunately we have enough stock of konkurs, kornets and milan2T - mostly we will be ok. its not as if Paki tanks will have run of the place - not with 100 jaguars and mi35 waiting to pounce and make all their wet dreams come true.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby kurup » 16 Mar 2019 17:07

Nirbhay Test scheduled for next week ( March 18/19/20 )

https://twitter.com/kurup89/status/1106877919484219393

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby nash » 16 Mar 2019 17:09

kurup wrote:Nirbhay Test scheduled for next week ( March 18/19/20 )

https://twitter.com/kurup89/status/1106877919484219393



What will be total testing range? - 130+220+(~40)+(~150)+(~100) = 700+ KM ?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 16 Mar 2019 17:52

sudeepj wrote:Any details on the specs of this mpatgm?


See:
https://www.examrace.com/Current-Affair ... essful.htm
vs
https://www.inetres.com/gp/military/inf ... velin.html

I suspect either weights are off in that brochure scan or the missile is much heavier and has more punch than the Javelin.


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