Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

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srai
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby srai » 25 May 2019 03:48

Kakarat wrote:https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1131902102576484357
Guided 500kg bomb tested from an IAF Su-30MKI today over Pokhran, says @DRDO_India.

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Is this based on the 500kg GP bomb w/ different nose & tail kit?
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500kg PGHSLD
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Garuda would be a cheaper alternative to PGHSLD. Think of it like JDAM equivalent.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Prem » 25 May 2019 11:38

https://twitter.com/easterncomd/status/ ... 9643540481
short video in the link
A BrahMos Missile was successfully test-fired by a Unit of #EasternCommand, #Indian Army from Car Nicobar Islands at 1450 h on 22 May as part of jt trg with @IAF_MCC & @indiannavy demonstrating synergized #jointmanship @adgpi @SpokespersonMoD

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ramana » 25 May 2019 12:19

KaranM, Two things.
1
- Note no wings. So lifting body with tail control unit. More reliable
- Note the accuracy.

Another person on Twitter sad this is like penetration and blast warhead. Can attack concrete structures also.
Need to find the tweet.
Had a Bengali name.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 25 May 2019 12:34

I hope it just gets inducted ASAP after tests etc. Useful against fixed targets and also AD destruction.

Garuda will work against Crotale, Giraffe guided RBS-70NGs, likely even SPADA 2000 which has a 25km slant range but will find it hard to engage low RCS targets at that range.
The low reduced RCS Garuthma w/wings 100KM is good for taking out PAF/PLAAF SAM installations like the HQ-16 which have 40km + range.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Rakesh » 25 May 2019 18:42

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1131780315272306688 ---> India does not need America's THAAD when it has its own homegrown PDV exo-atmospheric interceptor. In fact, the only reason THAAD is being offered now is because India has a truly comparable system in the form of DRDO's PDV. The THAAD vs S-400 juxtaposition is a red herring.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1131804161668919296 ---> Just because S-400 comes with the 40N6E missile does not make it a comparable system to THAAD. Roles and capabilities of the two systems are different. Some anal-cysts are deliberately obfuscating the matter because the real target is to screw DRDO's PDV interceptor's prospects.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1131783651518083072 ---> India had expressed an interest in THAAD many years ago. But at the time, the Americans were not amenable at all, because our own ballistic missile defence programme was at a nascent stage. But now that the PDV has matured, THAAD is on 'offer'.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Picklu » 25 May 2019 22:11

So, one thing is for sure. At least one lab of DRDO have mastered the clean separation of un-powered ordnance for airbourn delivery.

We lost a Jag earlier during test since we hadn't understood/calculated properly all the forces at play. Our first attempt at laser guided bomb also failed.

But we persisted and first indication of mastery came from successful test of HSLD and SAAW. Now Garuda.

Expect rapid build up of quantity and variety of precision guided munition from now onward.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby kit » 25 May 2019 22:29

Don't expect America to provide ANY strategic military technology..just look at American acquisitions and history. NOT going to happen. S400 is a done deal even if we have to deal with sanctions.there is no work around it.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ramana » 26 May 2019 07:54

Picklu and KaranM,
Bomb aerodynamics is complex.
For stable flight the Cp is after the Cg due to the aft fins.

The amazing thing is the bomb lift is being used to give the range by releasing at height. Then the fins are used to guide and even change the attitude to deliver vertical delivery.

I haven't seen this mastery earlier.

Need to dig the tweet that describes types of targets.
This 500kg IGB is like SPICE 1000 but without the Digital Scene Matching Computer.
So costs should be lower.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Singha » 26 May 2019 08:07

garuthma has equivalent range to spice. we need it in numbers to snipe at terror camps.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby sudhan » 27 May 2019 18:07

What is the advertised range of Garuthma?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Pratyush » 27 May 2019 18:49

Akash 1s successfully test fired.

Republic TV reporting.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 27 May 2019 19:06

sudhan wrote:What is the advertised range of Garuthma?


100 km

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 27 May 2019 19:08

Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 27 May 2019 19:10

https://english.jagran.com/india/drdo-s ... e-10000559

New Delhi| Jagran News Desk| The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) on Monday successfully test-fired the Akash-1S surface-to-air (SAM) missile defence system.

The 1S is the new version of the Akash missile which comes fitted with an indigenous seeker. This is the second successful missile test conducted this week.

The Akash system has been developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL) is the production agency.

Akash has already been deployed by IAF at its bases in Gwalior, Hashimara, Tejpur, Jorhat and Pune. The deployment started in 2013.

Akash is a potent supersonic mobile multi-directional, multi-target point, area Air Defence system that can simultaneously engage multiple air targets using sophisticated multi-function phased array radars.

The advanced ECCM (Electronic Counter Counter Measures) features provide secure communication links with other Air Defence Command and Control networks to handle the counter electronic warfare scenario.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 27 May 2019 19:15

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/11329980 ... 89/photo/1

DRDO today successfully test fired the Akash-1S surface to air defence missile system. This is the second successful test of the missile in last two days. This is a new version of the missile fitted with an indigenous seeker.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby SSridhar » 28 May 2019 07:18

Picklu wrote:So, one thing is for sure. At least one lab of DRDO have mastered the clean separation of un-powered ordnance for airbourn delivery.

Garuthma, winged-versionfor longer distance, was tested for its full range in December 2014 itself.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 28 May 2019 11:31

2x regiments of the Army will be ordered with Mk1S. We should move the IAF 2nd tranche to Mk1S as well (7 squadrons).

Each launcher should have a mix of the missiles, active + SARH if possible. Will make countermeasures that much harder for Opfor.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby rohitvats » 28 May 2019 11:50

Karan - With seeker, Akash 1S moves from Command Guidance to SARH mode, right? Or, is this new active seeker we're talking about here? Thanks.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 28 May 2019 11:55

Inertial/Command Guidance to Inertial + Active mode. If the seeker is powerful enough, it may even have LOBL (lock on before launch) and fully autonomous. SARH is in a sense an advanced flavor of command guidance, the seeker just homes in on reflected energy from the target, so the ground radar has to be on throughout. Akash Mk1S does not have a SARH seeker, but a variant of the same indigenous seeker as used on Astra (not the Russian one).

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 28 May 2019 12:01

MOD Annual Report 2017-18 (still waiting for 2018-19, elections got in the way)

Akash Mk-1S Surface-to-Air Missile: Akash Mk 1S is the upgradation of Akash missile with indigenous RF seeker. During the flight test held on December 5, 2017 against Banshee target, the integration of indigenous RF seeker with basic missile configuration was proved.

Ku-band Active Radar Seeker (Ku-band ARS): DRDO has undertaken a project for the development of indigenous Ku-band seekers leading to production. First batch of five seekers are being developed with participation of M/s BEL. Two seekers from this lot have been acceptance tested (AT) and one of the seeker has been flight tested in Akash Mk-1S mission during December, 2017 successfully for the first time. This seeker was also successfully tested in captive flight trials (CFT) with different flight engagement profiles in Astra weapon system configuration on Su-30 aircraft at Pune AF station.


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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Indranil » 28 May 2019 12:22

This is a significant development.
1. It Mark's the coming off age of A2A seeker. IAF/IA/DRDO must be happy with this seekers performance to field it on Astra, QRSAM and Akash.
2. With this seeler the Pk of the missile has gone up significantly. People in the know are saying that the salvo firing of two Akash missiles to ensure a kill will not be required.
3. With this seeker, the missiles range has been augmented to 35 km.
4. I won't be surprised if all slash missiles won't be retrofitted with this seeker.
5. Over to akash mk2 now

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby tsarkar » 28 May 2019 12:42

So Astra seeker is being retrofitted to Akash.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7Why0zUYAEc8ca.jpg

Note the satellite downlink on BrahMos launcher being used - most probably IN GSAT 7 or IAF 7A used to download data. There is a microwave link as well that is kept recessed. IA Brahmos covers the Jehadi state of Aceh in Indonesia.

We're much friendlier with Myanmar with BEL RAWL and HMX sonar serving on their Chinese engined and missile armed corvettes

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7KsvbPUwAA_zdE.jpg

RAWL Radar export - http://www.psuconnect.in/company/bharat ... -limited/5

Sonar Export - http://pib.nic.in/newsite/erelease.aspx?relid=103911

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby tsarkar » 28 May 2019 12:43

What does QRSAM do differently than Akash?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 28 May 2019 13:38

Its Much smaller than having to lug a 750kg missile. More logistic friendly in that respect. Wonder with the new seeker whether there is any reduction in the Akash's 55KG warhead which is a lot of for a SAM,

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby nits » 28 May 2019 13:43

Karan M wrote:https://english.jagran.com/india/drdo-successfully-test-fires-akash1s-surfacetoair-missile-10000559

New Delhi| Jagran News Desk| The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) on Monday successfully test-fired the Akash-1S surface-to-air (SAM) missile defence system.

The 1S is the new version of the Akash missile which comes fitted with an indigenous seeker. This is the second successful missile test conducted this week.

The Akash system has been developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL) is the production agency.

Akash has already been deployed by IAF at its bases in Gwalior, Hashimara, Tejpur, Jorhat and Pune. The deployment started in 2013.

Akash is a potent supersonic mobile multi-directional, multi-target point, area Air Defence system that can simultaneously engage multiple air targets using sophisticated multi-function phased array radars.

The advanced ECCM (Electronic Counter Counter Measures) features provide secure communication links with other Air Defence Command and Control networks to handle the counter electronic warfare scenario.



It looks as a response to Pak Missile (1500Km) test conducted on Election Counting day

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 28 May 2019 14:01

Nope. that does not make any to sense. In the Indian context tests are done 1) to Validate or justify scientific reaserch 2) If inducted to test the missile working in an operational environment.

The Pakistani context painted Chinese missiles are tested for H&D purposes.

So now way is the Akash 1S missile test any response to updated M-9 missile

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby nam » 28 May 2019 15:07

tsarkar wrote:What does QRSAM do differently than Akash?


Smaller missile, more rounds. Fire on the move as per IA requirements. Probably has faster reaction time as well.

Also radar footprint is smaller with out and out AESA radars. So ability to handle saturation attacks, with multi target engagement.

I take QRSAM will evolve in to our own Iron dome, in the future.

I guess a better question will be, what is Akash NG meant to do?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby srai » 28 May 2019 15:17

Indranil wrote:This is a significant development.
1. It Mark's the coming off age of A2A seeker. IAF/IA/DRDO must be happy with this seekers performance to field it on Astra, QRSAM and Akash.
...

Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 28 May 2019 16:17

tsarkar wrote:What does QRSAM do differently than Akash?


Much smaller footprint, smaller vehicles, smaller radars, smaller missiles, more mobile.
Search on move, can keep looking for targets while moving
Fires from short halt
Dual pulse vs all-the-way ramjet
Has EO backup
Less powerful radars but also more mobile
IMHO natural replacement of Akash in SRSAM role.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 28 May 2019 16:28

Indranil wrote:This is a significant development.
1. It Mark's the coming off age of A2A seeker. IAF/IA/DRDO must be happy with this seekers performance to field it on Astra, QRSAM and Akash.
2. With this seeler the Pk of the missile has gone up significantly. People in the know are saying that the salvo firing of two Akash missiles to ensure a kill will not be required.
3. With this seeker, the missiles range has been augmented to 35 km.
4. I won't be surprised if all slash missiles won't be retrofitted with this seeker.
5. Over to akash mk2 now


Points 2, 3, be very big ones.
And point 4 is quite logical.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby titash » 28 May 2019 18:11

Karan M wrote:
Indranil wrote:This is a significant development.
1. It Mark's the coming off age of A2A seeker. IAF/IA/DRDO must be happy with this seekers performance to field it on Astra, QRSAM and Akash.
2. With this seeler the Pk of the missile has gone up significantly. People in the know are saying that the salvo firing of two Akash missiles to ensure a kill will not be required.
3. With this seeker, the missiles range has been augmented to 35 km.
4. I won't be surprised if all slash missiles won't be retrofitted with this seeker.
5. Over to akash mk2 now


Points 2, 3, be very big ones.
And point 4 is quite logical.


I predict a mix of guidance modes. The active seeker is < 15 km range, and is relatively low powered if jammed. The rajendra is a very high power (relatively) radar and in the absence of ARMs (e.g. small sized raids by 1-2 aircraft or cruise missiles) is actually a very solid option

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby kit » 28 May 2019 18:38

nits wrote:
Karan M wrote:https://english.jagran.com/india/drdo-successfully-test-fires-akash1s-surfacetoair-missile-10000559




It looks as a response to Pak Missile (1500Km) test conducted on Election Counting day


dont think akash has ABM capability

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 28 May 2019 18:51

titash wrote:I predict a mix of guidance modes. The active seeker is < 15 km range, and is relatively low powered if jammed. The rajendra is a very high power (relatively) radar and in the absence of ARMs (e.g. small sized raids by 1-2 aircraft or cruise missiles) is actually a very solid option


>13 km. Exact range not specified. And RCS is usually ~2sq mtrs, so 25% more against a loaded fighter from below/sides. This is an Astra sized seeker ported into Akash.

Also, remember, jamming has to be directed at seeker, in how many cases will fighters be directly coming at the missile? It attacks from the flanks, from below.. its not easy to jam at all unless strike package has escort jammers with antenna designed for the task (facing forward, downwards, in a wide swathe) leading SEAD packages to take out the Akash in advance and for that to work, you need to know where the Akash are. IAF can have 3-4 prepared positions and redeploy from peacetime "known positions" at wartime, with decoys at earlier position.

And with MTI, chaff will be ignored as well.

Lets consider: CG + ARH:
Point being the terminal seeker will be turned on ~at half the range. The radar can switch to another target now. So, it increases the radars target capability. Once missile goes active, radar can turn off as well, increasing its survivability.

LOBL mode (if implemented):
Suppose the Akash battery remains silent and launches at ~15km vs low flying targets with missiles going active right off the rails. The radar/Akash battery cannot be targeted by ARMs easily as they stay on only for surveillance.

Third mode: Lets just call it WAG (wise @ss guess) mode. Lob missiles into a "basket" initially determined by 3D surveillance radar and let them guide in on their own, to protect the Rajendra's.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 28 May 2019 19:01

If this missile is inducted in number, PAFs/PLAAFs problems increased manifold.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ashishvikas » 28 May 2019 19:03

Outgunned By Pak F-16s, IAF Plans To Re-Arm Its Sukhois With Israeli Missiles

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/outgunn ... es-2044172

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 28 May 2019 19:06

Som is becoming more and more masala heavy in his articles. I won't quote it, but its clearly speaking of his desperation to drum up eyeballs.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ArjunPandit » 28 May 2019 19:30

^^to be fair, no journo gets to write his headings. That said he's the same guy who peddled Abhi disobeyed orders

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 28 May 2019 19:33

There is very good money to be made in selling and promoting arms. Nobody in the media business can ignore it.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 28 May 2019 19:36

ArjunPandit wrote:^^to be fair, no journo gets to write his headings. That said he's the same guy who peddled Abhi disobeyed orders


He was busy giving gyan on clouds, radar, Modi till a slew of professionals spoke up. Then, silence. :roll:

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby JayS » 28 May 2019 20:03

ArjunPandit wrote:^^to be fair, no journo gets to write his headings. That said he's the same guy who peddled Abhi disobeyed orders

Its not just the headline but the content too is like sales material for imported maal. Doesn't even consider Astra Mk1 as an option which also has 100km range, which in brochure to brochure comparison be enough for Su30 for not "outgunning" by F16. It also says 10yrs for Astra MK2.


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