Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

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abhik
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby abhik » 10 Jun 2019 21:23

sum wrote:^^ Truly Chankyan to ensure no enemy in this world can ever guess which component to develop counter-measures for since literally every system of the world seems represented!

Yup truly chunkian move, friendly fire is one of the biggest risks (and we got a bitter reminder recently)... it will become the most dangerous airspace for both enemy and friendly aircraft.

Although I really doubt they will actually deploy all these systems at the same place.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby rohitvats » 10 Jun 2019 21:29

I'm posting content from my Tweets on NASAM-2 purchase. It baffles me, to say the least.

Link to Tweet (it has pictures as well): https://twitter.com/KesariDhwaj/status/1138105674779389952

(1) Thoughts on NASAM missile system is this thread:
NASAM initially stood for Norwegian Advanced Surface to Air Missile System. Till Raytheon & Kongsberg Defense decided to market it world-wide and National replaced Norwegian. Can't understand the need for #NASAM air-defense system

(2) Composition of NASAM fire Unit:
- Missile: AIM-120-C7 missile (can fire AIM-9X or RIM-162 Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile)
- Launcher: 6 x missiles/launcher (Launcher can be static or mobile)
- Radar: Raytheon X-Band, 3D, MPQ-64F1 Sentinel (scan and track)
- It also has an Electro-Optical sensor for passive identification and cuing of the missiles. This system is mounted on a 4x4 vehicle.

(3) A battery consists of a Fire Distribution Center (FDC) which manages 3/4 launchers. Each FDC is connected to Radars, EO Unit & Launchers through a data-link (including Link 16).
- FDC is the main C4I and Battle Management node.
- Each full NASAM-II battalion has 12 launchers; at 6 missiles/Launcher, it has 72 ready-to-fire missiles.
- So, we're talking about 4 batteries of 3 launchers each.

(4) Each Battery has 1 x Radar + 1 x EO Sensor + 3 x Launchers.
- Though, each FDC can manage up to 12 launchers. This requires additional radars and EO Units.
- Data-link allows launcher to be placed 25 km away

(5) Performance:
-Missile Range: 40 km
- Altitude: 14 km
-Radar: 75 km

(6) Question is - What does NASAM-2 bring to table which can't be filled by more SPYDER orders?
NASAM-2 is a short-to-medium range networked system. SPYDER has same capabilities. It has mix of passive (PYTHON-5) & active (DERBY) missiles and has range from 15-50 km.

(6) Is NASAM-2 purchase meant to placate USA? Or, is there more to the purchase than what is being shared in the public? Because on the face of it, NASAM-2 does not bring anything extraordinary to the table which SPYDER-MR cannot.

Need to wait for more data as the story unfolds.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Anujan » 10 Jun 2019 21:44

Also why is it better than Akash

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ramana » 10 Jun 2019 21:51

rohitvats,
It assures the opponents that there are a variety of systems which they have to defeat if they escalate to conflict.
Just a $1B insurance.
Basically a political decision.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby brar_w » 10 Jun 2019 22:01

rohitvats wrote:I'm posting content from my Tweets on NASAM-2 purchase. It baffles me, to say the least.

Link to Tweet (it has pictures as well): https://twitter.com/KesariDhwaj/status/1138105674779389952

(1) Thoughts on NASAM missile system is this thread:
NASAM initially stood for Norwegian Advanced Surface to Air Missile System. Till Raytheon & Kongsberg Defense decided to market it world-wide and National replaced Norwegian. Can't understand the need for #NASAM air-defense system

(2) Composition of NASAM fire Unit:
- Missile: AIM-120-C7 missile (can fire AIM-9X or RIM-162 Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile)
- Launcher: 6 x missiles/launcher (Launcher can be static or mobile)
- Radar: Raytheon X-Band, 3D, MPQ-64F1 Sentinel (scan and track)
- It also has an Electro-Optical sensor for passive identification and cuing of the missiles. This system is mounted on a 4x4 vehicle.

(3) A battery consists of a Fire Distribution Center (FDC) which manages 3/4 launchers. Each FDC is connected to Radars, EO Unit & Launchers through a data-link (including Link 16).
- FDC is the main C4I and Battle Management node.
- Each full NASAM-II battalion has 12 launchers; at 6 missiles/Launcher, it has 72 ready-to-fire missiles.
- So, we're talking about 4 batteries of 3 launchers each.

(4) Each Battery has 1 x Radar + 1 x EO Sensor + 3 x Launchers.
- Though, each FDC can manage up to 12 launchers. This requires additional radars and EO Units.
- Data-link allows launcher to be placed 25 km away

(5) Performance:
-Missile Range: 40 km
- Altitude: 14 km
-Radar: 75 km

(6) Question is - What does NASAM-2 bring to table which can't be filled by more SPYDER orders?
NASAM-2 is a short-to-medium range networked system. SPYDER has same capabilities. It has mix of passive (PYTHON-5) & active (DERBY) missiles and has range from 15-50 km.

(6) Is NASAM-2 purchase meant to placate USA? Or, is there more to the purchase than what is being shared in the public? Because on the face of it, NASAM-2 does not bring anything extraordinary to the table which SPYDER-MR cannot.

Need to wait for more data as the story unfolds.


Performance specifications depend upon the versions of individual systems being sought. While the baseline Sentinel is a 70-80 km ranged X-band radar, the upcoming GaN A4 has a 2x performance requirement and will be on contract next month for early to mid 2020s IOC. Having a 150-200km ranged X-band AESA that you can tow with an HMMWV is quite relevant for the sort of missions and deployability the NASAMS has been designed for. It will be plug and play with existing Sentinel A3s though it may require a larger generator. Similarly, the AMRAAM-ER is already on offer and that can probably be swapped with ESSM BLK II If local assembly isn’t an issue/requirement ( AMRAAM-ER exists only to provide that range and altitude / envelope increases without the restrictions of a consortium based weapon like the ESSM where local component production cannot be easily farmed out as offsets). So NASAMs can be configured as a short to medium ranged system or a full blown medium ranged system with larger diameter missiles and more powerful radars. The footprint or the mobility requirements are unaffected and the C2 is unchanged as well as its the same basic C2, same launcher (even with the larger diameter missiles, and essentially the same Radar group, though a 60kW prime power supply for the radar may be swapped out with a 80Kw or higher power system which wouldn't add a whole lot when it comes to the footprint or mobility and transportability.
Last edited by brar_w on 11 Jun 2019 21:37, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Singha » 10 Jun 2019 22:01

but in exchange we do not get any concessions on iran front, just more threats.

trump is a classless and thankless kind of leader. its better we distance ourself from his naked highness and go our own way. fan the flames on the china-us fight if we can.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby kit » 10 Jun 2019 22:07

brar_w wrote:
rohitvats wrote:I'm posting content from my Tweets on NASAM-2 purchase. It baffles me, to say the least.

Link to Tweet (it has pictures as well): https://twitter.com/KesariDhwaj/status/1138105674779389952

(1) Thoughts on NASAM missile system is this thread:
NASAM initially stood for Norwegian Advanced Surface to Air Missile System. Till Raytheon & Kongsberg Defense decided to market it world-wide and National replaced Norwegian. Can't understand the need for #NASAM air-defense system

(2) Composition of NASAM fire Unit:
- Missile: AIM-120-C7 missile (can fire AIM-9X or RIM-162 Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile)
- Launcher: 6 x missiles/launcher (Launcher can be static or mobile)
- Radar: Raytheon X-Band, 3D, MPQ-64F1 Sentinel (scan and track)
- It also has an Electro-Optical sensor for passive identification and cuing of the missiles. This system is mounted on a 4x4 vehicle.

(3) A battery consists of a Fire Distribution Center (FDC) which manages 3/4 launchers. Each FDC is connected to Radars, EO Unit & Launchers through a data-link (including Link 16).
- FDC is the main C4I and Battle Management node.
- Each full NASAM-II battalion has 12 launchers; at 6 missiles/Launcher, it has 72 ready-to-fire missiles.
- So, we're talking about 4 batteries of 3 launchers each.

(4) Each Battery has 1 x Radar + 1 x EO Sensor + 3 x Launchers.
- Though, each FDC can manage up to 12 launchers. This requires additional radars and EO Units.
- Data-link allows launcher to be placed 25 km away

(5) Performance:
-Missile Range: 40 km
- Altitude: 14 km
-Radar: 75 km

(6) Question is - What does NASAM-2 bring to table which can't be filled by more SPYDER orders?
NASAM-2 is a short-to-medium range networked system. SPYDER has same capabilities. It has mix of passive (PYTHON-5) & active (DERBY) missiles and has range from 15-50 km.

(6) Is NASAM-2 purchase meant to placate USA? Or, is there more to the purchase than what is being shared in the public? Because on the face of it, NASAM-2 does not bring anything extraordinary to the table which SPYDER-MR cannot.

Need to wait for more data as the story unfolds.


Performance specifications depend upon the versions of individual systems being sought. While the baseline Sentinel is a 70-80 km ranged X-band radar, the upcoming GaN A4 has a 2x performance requirement and will be on contract next month for early to mid 2020s IOC. It will be plug and play with existing Sentinel A3s though it may require a larger generator. Similarly, the AMRAAM-ER is already on offer and that can probably be swapped with ESSM BLK II If local assembly isn’t an issue/requirement ( AMRAAM-ER exists only to provide that range increases without the restrictions of a consortium based weapon like the ESSM where local component production cannot be easily farmed out as offsets). So NASAMs can be configured as a short to medium ranged system or a full blown medium ranged system with larger diameter missiles and more powerful radars. The footprint or the mobility requirements are unaffected and the C2 is unchanged as well.



Wont the Forward-Based X-Band – Transportable (FBX-T) radar coupled with HTK missiles be a better option ?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby srin » 10 Jun 2019 22:32

brar_w wrote:


Given that this has been doing the rounds for quite a while now, one would have thought that the media at least get the weapon system facts down. This is very much a Norwegian system, and though it utilizes many elements from US Army systems, the guts of the system (C2) are 100% Norwegian as are the data rights and libraries. The US never really created a HAWK replacement and this allowed Kongsberg to step in and put together something for that market. The US does operate stand alone systems (not expeditionary/ one off purchase) but neither NASAMS as it currently exists, nor any future iteration of it is going to be included in the US Army's Air and Missile Defense set up.


Maybe it's used by the Airforce ? 'coz for two reasons:
- Wiki says NASAMS is deployed to defend DC, and linked to an article that mentions it.
- This is an FMS deal and my understanding is that we get it at around the same price that US forces got it. So, if US Army isn't using it, then may be AF is ?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby abhik » 10 Jun 2019 22:37

Our weapons purchases from US are really nothing compared to what they are signing with the A-Rabs, and all our deals painfully long draws out with ToT and offset requirements. In fact even we are giving the Russians billions with ToT/offset obligations.

I think the govt is mistaken if it thinks it can placate the US with a piddly 1B deal, it will expect an equal or greater amount to placate.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby brar_w » 10 Jun 2019 22:37

srin wrote:
brar_w wrote:
Given that this has been doing the rounds for quite a while now, one would have thought that the media at least get the weapon system facts down. This is very much a Norwegian system, and though it utilizes many elements from US Army systems, the guts of the system (C2) are 100% Norwegian as are the data rights and libraries. The US never really created a HAWK replacement and this allowed Kongsberg to step in and put together something for that market. The US does operate stand alone systems (not expeditionary/ one off purchase) but neither NASAMS as it currently exists, nor any future iteration of it is going to be included in the US Army's Air and Missile Defense set up.


Maybe it's used by the Airforce ? 'coz for two reasons:
- Wiki says NASAMS is deployed to defend DC, and linked to an article that mentions it.
- This is an FMS deal and my understanding is that we get it at around the same price that US forces got it. So, if US Army isn't using it, then may be AF is ?




I know the US uses it but as I said it was a one off purchase to defend the NCR. It is not a part of the US army IAMD architecture or essentially - the US army won’t be taking it to war as part of its Air defense formations, though the components like the “pocket” X band radar does and is going to continue to form the backbone of US army CMD and C-UAS mission and integrated fire control connectivity to extend the PATRIOTs sensor and interceptor reach beyond the horizon.
Last edited by brar_w on 10 Jun 2019 23:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Prem Kumar » 10 Jun 2019 23:52

The U.S
1) Armed Pakistan with F-16s and AIM-120Cs which were used against India
2) Threatens sanctions over S-400 purchase
3) Forces us to cancel Iran oil
4) Removes preferential trade status

And we reward them by purchasing a so-so SAM system worth $1.2B. Shameful.

A middle-finger & reciprocal threats would've been in order. The U.S cannot afford a 3 front war against Russia, China and India at the same time. They need us more than we need them. We are like Hanuman who doesn't know his own strength.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Anujan » 11 Jun 2019 00:17

OT for this thread.

But it's not the case that Iran is doing us any favors either. They tried to strong arm us in Iran-Pakistan-India pipeline. Now threatening to connect chabahar to CPEC highways. They even attacked an Israeli diplomat on Indian soil.

On top of all that, their supreme leader makes statements about JK in his eid address.

It's high time we moved on from their oil.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Nikhil T » 11 Jun 2019 04:30

I don't think this deal is to "keep US happy" (I'm not sure $1B will keep a superpower with $700B annual budget "happy"). There must be some thinking behind this decision to secure Delhi at all costs, but I can't imagine what it is. We're not a tiny nation that faces a threat of a unprovoked decapitation air strike that wipes out our entire political-military leadership.

For a nation with severely constrained resources, we have far better ways to spend this money.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby SSridhar » 11 Jun 2019 07:23

ArjunPandit wrote:Please note that it's chindu..

It is PTI.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 11 Jun 2019 10:28

Nikhil T wrote:I don't think this deal is to "keep US happy" (I'm not sure $1B will keep a superpower with $700B annual budget "happy"). There must be some thinking behind this decision to secure Delhi at all costs, but I can't imagine what it is. We're not a tiny nation that faces a threat of a unprovoked decapitation air strike that wipes out our entire political-military leadership.

For a nation with severely constrained resources, we have far better ways to spend this money.

The richest people bargain the most, the US probably has a target for us which the MH 60R alone did not fulfill and we did not want the sea guardian drones.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Singha » 11 Jun 2019 10:38

what is the diff between the sea guardian and the base reaper drone? does the US model reaper have classified SAR / ELINT sensors for A2G role that are deleted in the sea guardian and remarketed as a naval patrol drone?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby mody » 11 Jun 2019 19:23

The Sea Gaurdian purchase for 22 drones has been approved. India had asked for the drones. Its US which has now approved it.
The NASSAM-II purchase if it goes through, just sounds stupid.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby RKumar » 11 Jun 2019 22:16

NASSAM-2 is a indeed a stupid decision. It will make sense to buy more armed drones if available. Or finalize transport fleet contract.

God only knows what is blocking additional 20 Tejas MK1 plus MK1A orders? Awaiting for Tejas moving up north by end of this year :D

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 11 Jun 2019 23:59

NASAMS-2 gives us a good look into AMRAAM.

Apart from that, there is one intriguing bit of info I found in the description by some senior dude as usual not authorized to speak to media but yacking.

"It can even fire around buildings".

So..has NASAMS-2 been tested/certified in an urban environment?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ArjunPandit » 12 Jun 2019 00:34

here is what i found from the NASAM's sale to qatar

https://www.dsca.mil/sites/default/file ... _18-43.pdf

The Government of Qatar has requested to buy defense articles and services from the U.S. Government in support of a Direct Commercial Sale of the National Advanced Surface to Air Missile System (NASAMS). The items Qatar requests include the following: forty (40) AIM 120C-7 AMRAAM missiles, one (1) spare AIM 120C-7 AMRAAM guidance section, one (1) spare AIM-120C-7 control section, eight (8) AMRAAM Captive Air Training Missile (CATM-120C), missile containers, classified software for the AN/MPQ-64F1 Sentinel Radar, spare and repair parts, cryptographic and communication security devices, precision navigation equipment, other software, site surveys, weapons system equipment and computer software support, publications and technical documentation, common munitions and test equipment, repair and return services and equipment, personnel training and training equipment, integration support and test equipment, and U.S. Government and contractor, engineering, technical and logistics support services, and other related elements of logistical and program support. The estimated cost is $215 million

costs are pretty steep...

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ArjunPandit » 12 Jun 2019 00:36

RKumar wrote:NASSAM-2 is a indeed a stupid decision. It will make sense to buy more armed drones if available. Or finalize transport fleet contract.

God only knows what is blocking additional 20 Tejas MK1 plus MK1A orders? Awaiting for Tejas moving up north by end of this year :D

my thought process is US is going towards the russian mode..asking us to buy one thing for another like russia made us buy Mig 23s along with 25 or mig 27 with 25 IIRC.
so this may be that thing

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby kit » 12 Jun 2019 03:59

Karan M wrote:NASAMS-2 gives us a good look into AMRAAM.

Apart from that, there is one intriguing bit of info I found in the description by some senior dude as usual not authorized to speak to media but yacking.

"It can even fire around buildings".

So..has NASAMS-2 been tested/certified in an urban environment?


quite probable that the nasams brings some level of ultra-sophisticated tech in the form of radar or cryptographic comms.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 12 Jun 2019 04:15

Doubt it. We will get downgraded stuff anyhow. Check P-8I radar modes.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby brar_w » 12 Jun 2019 06:57

kit wrote:
quite probable that the nasams brings some level of ultra-sophisticated tech in the form of radar or cryptographic comms.


No wizardry. Just standard stuff. What the article/unknown official likely refers to is the urban deployment of the AN/MPQ-64 where the ATG and its prime power supply can be lifted onto rooftops by displacing it from its trailer bed. I think the ATG on the F1 weighs well under 2 tons (with the IFF it is around 3000-3500 lb IIRC) once you displace it from the trailer bed (they've even managed to mount it on an airship). C2 communication can be either wireless or hardwired if it's a more permanent deployment. Same with launchers. This is one of the reasons the US Army is not upgrading all of its Sentinel radars to the A4 standards and will be maintaining two distinct F1 and A3 variants depending upon system weight, configuration and mobility requirements. The A4 would bulk up the antenna and the SDP quite a bit as switching to GaN will require more cooling resources and the requirement of nearly tripling the search volume capability and almost doubling the maximum range will probably require a larger antenna. The lighter weight F1 and optimized A3's would continue to serve in the gap filler and higher mobility and urban deployment requirements that the original Sentinel radars were designed to serve. The A4's would serve the CRAM, SHORAD and for Extending the fire-control connectivity of Air Defense battalions to beyond primary radar horizon (US Army prefers X band and Ku band radards for Counter Cruise Missile and counter small UAS missions ). The NASAMS going forward would probably utilize both in mixed units depending upon user needs. I can see some of the smaller nations who would use it primarily as their main air defense system deploy it with the Sentinel A4 and the AMRAAM-ER (sort of like the legacy HAWK operators), while others who have other more capable Medium or Long ranged systems would use the system as purely a short ranged system with cheaper weapons like the standard AMRAAM (that can be shared with A2A stocks) or even just Aim-9X missiles.
Last edited by brar_w on 12 Jun 2019 09:36, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Philip » 12 Jun 2019 08:38

This acquisition is pressure to get a toe into our networked air defence system which would include our buffet of other missiles, desi and firang.Frankly it is superflous when we already have a multi-layered cocktail from Akash, B-8ER, Prithvi AD and the S-400s.Just one system "protecting" Delhi is probably a sop thrown to the US to go ahead with the S-400s what the services desire.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby kit » 12 Jun 2019 11:31

Philip wrote:This acquisition is pressure to get a toe into our networked air defence system which would include our buffet of other missiles, desi and firang.Frankly it is superflous when we already have a multi-layered cocktail from Akash, B-8ER, Prithvi AD and the S-400s.Just one system "protecting" Delhi is probably a sop thrown to the US to go ahead with the S-400s what the services desire.


might be too naive to think so. AAD bubbles are in place covering most of India but ABM shield does not cover the entire land mass, and probably doesn't need to, of course, there would nothing even remotely accurate in an OSI 8)

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby JayS » 12 Jun 2019 12:43

Hemant Rout tweets that HSTDV was flight tested for the first time.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Raghunathgb » 12 Jun 2019 13:31

#BREAKING In a path breaking attempt, #India conducts 1st test of Hypersonic Technology Demonstrator Vehicle. With scramjet engine it can cruise at Mach 6 & have multiple civilian applications, including launch of low cost satellite & long range cruise #missile. @NewIndianXpress.https://t.co/9Cqnee30Rh

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby hanumadu » 12 Jun 2019 13:54

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1138716887246725120

Saurav Jha

Verified account

@SJha1618
9m9 minutes ago
More
Saurav Jha Retweeted Saurav Jha
Yes, that day is finally here. @DRDO_India tested the Hypersonic technology demonstrator vehicle (HSTDV) for the first time today.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kakarat » 12 Jun 2019 14:20

India test fires Hypersonic Technology Demonstrator Vehicle

India on Wednesday successfully test-fired Hypersonic Technology Demonstrator Vehicle (HSTDV) off Odisha coast.

It was test-fired from launch pad number-4 of Integrated Test Range (ITR) at Abdul Kalam Island in Balasore district at 11.22 a.m.

With scramjet engine, it can cruise at Mach 6 and have multiple civilian applications. It can be used for launching satellites at low cost and long-range cruise missile, said sources.

The trial was conducted in the presence of the senior scientists of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and Defence secretary Sanjay Mitra, sources added.

The HSTDV is an unmanned scramjet demonstration aircraft.

--IANS

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby MeshaVishwas » 12 Jun 2019 14:21

Mounted on an Agni series #missile, the hyper-sonic technology demonstrator vehicle launched from a defence test facility off #Odisha coast. Data generated during the mission are being analysed. Defence Minister @rajnathsingh witnesses test. @NewIndianXpress. #India #MissionHTDV

https://twitter.com/TheHemantRout/statu ... 86305?s=19

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby nits » 12 Jun 2019 14:28

can they have kill switch in missile shield also - if we are protecting Delhi by it we cant rely on it completely and need to have a backup system for eventualities - IMHO

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby nash » 12 Jun 2019 14:49

https://twitter.com/kurup89/status/1138069169151201281


kurup
‏ @kurup89

550 km range missile test from ITR on 12/13 June


This warning coincide with this test.

Singha
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Singha » 12 Jun 2019 15:13

so we are proceeding to our own avengard. this would be a good RV for 1-warhead missiles like A4 and A5.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby JayS » 12 Jun 2019 16:35

Singha wrote:so we are proceeding to our own avengard. this would be a good RV for 1-warhead missiles like A4 and A5.


Avengard is a Hypersonic glider, sort of skipping on the upper atmosphere at M25-30 speed. HSTDV is a powered hypersonic flight vehicle, a Scramjet. It will be flying at M6 or so. Hypersonic glider is relatively easier tech, India should be able to put together a prototype within 3yrs and operationalize one within a decade if the Political leadership wants to. Scramjet tech is much more complex.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby rgosain » 12 Jun 2019 16:41

JayS wrote:
Singha wrote:so we are proceeding to our own avengard. this would be a good RV for 1-warhead missiles like A4 and A5.


Avengard is a Hypersonic glider, sort of skipping on the upper atmosphere at M25-30 speed. HSTDV is a powered hypersonic flight vehicle, a Scramjet. It will be flying at M6 or so. Hypersonic glider is relatively easier tech, India should be able to put together a prototype within 3yrs and operationalize one within a decade if the Political leadership wants to. Scramjet tech is much more complex.


The existing p5 may try to enable a hypersonic proliferation treaty. Look for the PRC and the Us to cosy up on this one even though the PRC is outside of the MTCR.

https://www.rand.org/blog/2018/03/hypersonic-missiles-a-new-proliferation-challenge.html

nam
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby nam » 12 Jun 2019 17:22

Finally. We need to push hard on the scramjet tech.

Hope to see a boost phase scramjet BM interceptor mounted on Su30 someday...

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby siqir » 12 Jun 2019 18:06

from that rand blog dated 2018 03 29

A recent RAND Corporation report recommends that the United States, Russia, and China (the Big Three) take advantage of these technical barriers by agreeing to embargo complete hypersonic missiles and their major components. Because of the challenges associated with the technology, this embargo could limit hypersonic missiles to the Big Three for many years.


haha

edit: ok probably spoke too soon
Last edited by siqir on 12 Jun 2019 21:02, edited 1 time in total.

abhik
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby abhik » 12 Jun 2019 18:19

Did they disclose for how long the scramjet ran?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 12 Jun 2019 19:22

Just to be clear, is this scramjet from DRDO totally distinct from what ISRO tested in August/2016? With separate teams, designs et al?


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