Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kartik » 16 Jul 2019 18:02

Karan M wrote:Yeah, ask these guys how many of these systems were stress tested in the conditions we face in the plains, in the Thar etc.
Anyhow, some addition to our capabilities. Best not crib.

Exactly my thought. Sure hope they “stress tested” it in 50 deg C and not -50 deg C which has hardly any bearing on us.

But like you said, just happy that the IAF is getting these. Will put the fear of God into the PAF.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby kit » 16 Jul 2019 18:23

nam wrote:Our BMD (PDV & AAD) should take the path of S400/S500.

Need to get MRSAM/ XRSAM, a version of QRSAM and PDV/AAD under all integrated Swordfish and mobile search & tracking AESA radars.

All should be one single package, to form the layered defense.

By the way we are spending close to 10 billion on SAM. Despite people crying over falling sqd numbers, the SAM investment is tremendous.


Quite so, with the introduction of the S400 and NASAMS for the NCR, the Indian airspace would probably be one of the best-defended airspaces in the world., the best of the East meets the best of the west !., probably no other nation would field such a diverse variety of equipment. A potential adversary would . have a headache just thinking about the defences, that said the whole conundrum needs to be integrated to a national grid with input to space command as well., that will give the ABM/SAM systems antisatellite capability as well., better bang for the buck. An ABM firing should include simultaneous launch of anti sat weapons that can knock out of the adversaries satellites, both GPS and comm sats as well. A doctrine in effect to this will serve to contain Chinese assistance to Pakistan as well unless they want to risk their beidou s as well.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Prem Kumar » 16 Jul 2019 23:06

USA has activated its shills in the Indian Media to pressurize the GOI on S-400. Was surprised to see Madhav Nalapat arguing vociferously (& nonsensically) against it as a "CBM to the U.S"! SuSwamy retweeted it too.

No dearth of morons.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Zynda » 17 Jul 2019 21:42

Strengthening IAF after Balakot: India set to acquire new Russian armaments

In the wake of Balakot, and the Pakistani Air Force's attempts to hit targets in India, foiled by Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman and his colleagues, the Indian Air Force (IAF) has begun looking for new armaments for its fighters.

* For any air force, it is not only about a high-quality fighter, but also, armaments, and in this age, missiles fired from beyond visual range (BVR). Wing Commander Varthaman had fired a short-range Russian R-73 missile at the Pakistan Air Force F-16 on February 27 this year. The IAF has just signed a contract for about 400 R-73s missiles worth around Rs 1,000 crore. The IAF sees the heat-seeking R-73 (with a range of about 30 km) as a low-cost, high-efficiency solution as it can be fired from many of its fighter jets, including the newer MiG-21 Bison, the MiG-29 and the Sukhoi-30MKI.

* India has also asked Russia for more X-31 Anti Radiation Missiles (ARM). These can be fitted on to most Russian designed fighters like the Sukhoi or the MiG-29 and even the French-made Mirage-2000 and are very accurate. These are supersonic air-to-surface missiles and the IAF will get about 250 of them (at a cost of about Rs 1,800 crore) and are effective against radar stations. The IAF had got some ARMs from Russia earlier.

* The IAF is also getting the very sophisticated Russian BVV-AE air to air missiles. These are roughly equivalent of the US-made AMRAAM missiles that were fired by Pakistani F-16 fighters on February 27. The BVVs have BVR capability with a range of about 80 to 100 km. About 400 of them are likely to be purchased and can be fitted on to the MiG-21 Bison, the MiG-29 and the Sukhoi-30.

The purchases come in the wake of Balakot, after which the Defence Ministry gave the armed forces emergency powers to make up for shortages in weapons and ammunition. The IAF is also procuring other weapons and equipment to maintain operational readiness. This is also another sign that India continues to buy weapons from Russia despite strong international pressure.


There were some reports of IAF testing R-77-1, RVV-BD (R-37 I think) from Sukohi a couple of months ago. One can assume some sort of DDM in the above report...if at all buying Russian AAMs, hopefully they will be buying the updated ones.
Last edited by ramana on 18 Jul 2019 05:39, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Added underline ramana

ramana
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ramana » 19 Jul 2019 23:55

In statistics there is a concept called rank sample tables. It gives you probability number at different confidence levels. So Nag getting 10 hits out of 10 trials gives a probability number at 50% and 95 % confidence. What are those numbers?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kakarat » 20 Jul 2019 00:07

https://twitter.com/DRDO_India/status/1 ... 8940567552
NAG-fire & forget anti tank missile uses imaging infrared seeker in lock-on-before-launch mode.The robust imaging algorithm has made the missile hit the target even in severe summer desert conditions which is unique in its class


Image
Image
Image
Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby nachiket » 20 Jul 2019 00:30

NAG missile trials have become like a leisure activity. When you're bored and looking for something fun to do, call the DRDO in for a NAG trial. This will be repeated in winter no doubt and the next summer and so on.

They should build a viewing gallery and sell tickets to the general public.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby SSridhar » 20 Jul 2019 07:44

During Aero India 2019, DRDO announced that Nag was finally set to enter production by the end of 2019 after undergoing the final set of summer user trials in May-June, 2019. From the above MoD tweet, it appears that Nag has cleared all trials finally. Hopefully !

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Prem Kumar » 20 Jul 2019 15:11

Knowing its history, I wouldn't be surprised if questions are raised about Namica, NAG's weight or some such issue. Followed by a token Arjun-like order to show their "support".

But 2 things give me a glimmer of hope:

1) Its Modi sarkar
2) This was user-trials

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ramana » 20 Jul 2019 22:56

ramana wrote:In statistics there is a concept called rank sample tables. It gives you probability number at different confidence levels. So Nag getting 10 hits out of 10 trials gives a probability number at 50% and 95 % confidence. What are those numbers?


OK here is the link.

https://www.weibull.com/GPaper/ranks10_13.htm

The probability of 10 hits in a row with 90% confidence is 98.90%

Folks most are engineers. Yet we make the most ill informed comments.
Should be more engaged.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby srai » 21 Jul 2019 03:47

SSridhar wrote:During Aero India 2019, DRDO announced that Nag was finally set to enter production by the end of 2019 after undergoing the final set of summer user trials in May-June, 2019. From the above MoD tweet, it appears that Nag has cleared all trials finally. Hopefully !



https://mobile.twitter.com/DefenceMinIn ... 8705785856
रक्षा मंत्री कार्यालय/ RMO India
·
Jul 19
All missiles met the mission objectives including minimum and maximum ranges, direct attack as well as top attack modes and achieved a direct hit onto the target. NAG ATGM has been developed by DRDO to engage highly fortified enemy tanks in all weather conditions
@DRDO_India



https://mobile.twitter.com/DefenceMinIn ... 6268227586
रक्षा मंत्री कार्यालय/ RMO India
·
Jul 19
Raksha Mantri Shri
@rajnathsingh
has congratulated the user evaluation teams from Indian Army and
@DRDO_India
on NAG’s successful completion of user trials.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby SSridhar » 21 Jul 2019 08:43

Excellent news. We await a similar one for Helina soon.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby nam » 26 Jul 2019 15:36

https://mod.gov.in/sites/default/files/MoDAR2018.pdf

I hope I understood it correctly.

SFDR is been developed for impluse of 1200 Sec! that is 20 minutes of flight! Claimed range is 340KM.

Now 20 mnts of flight at Mach 3 gives ... 1000KM+ range! Even if not that range, it can keep chasing the target for 20 minutes!

Ya Allah, What am i missing? :eek:

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby nam » 26 Jul 2019 15:38

SANT has MMW seeker.

There is a image of it been fired from Mi35.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 26 Jul 2019 17:20

Reading along, I found this on page 105 Interesting

Supersonic Missile Assisted Release of Torpedo (SMART): DRDO has taken up a project to develop and demonstrate a missile assisted release of light weight anti-submarine torpedo system for ASW operations far beyond torpedo range (50-650 km). During August, 2018, pneumatic ejection test of TAL dummy torpedo from canister was carried out at 150 bar which established the design of safe shear pin failure. Ejection speed of torpedo was also estimated during the trials.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Pratyush » 26 Jul 2019 17:45

nam wrote:https://mod.gov.in/sites/default/files/MoDAR2018.pdf

I hope I understood it correctly.

SFDR is been developed for impluse of 1200 Sec! that is 20 minutes of flight! Claimed range is 340KM.

Now 20 mnts of flight at Mach 3 gives ... 1000KM+ range! Even if not that range, it can keep chasing the target for 20 minutes!

Ya Allah, What am i missing? :eek:


A typo. :((

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby nam » 26 Jul 2019 17:58

It is peculiar.

If we take it at face value of 340KM, at Mach 3/54KM pm would need 7 -8 mnt impulse.

So it cannot be 100/120 sec, if it was typo.

I feel 1200 sec is the objective. May be a bigger version of the missile.

If it is true, given the range possible, I am thinking air launched, boost phase interceptor :D

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby srin » 26 Jul 2019 22:00

^^^ I don't understand the confusion, saar.

Specific impulse of rocket is around 200s, so the SFDR is much much more efficient. Interestingly, the ramjet's specific impulse is around 800 (per wiki), so the SFDR is more efficient than a ramjet (something that I hadn't thought of).

The range is factor of both the specific impulse and how much fuel/oxidiser is carried, no ? I honestly didn't get the calculation you presented above.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby nam » 26 Jul 2019 22:59

srin wrote:^^^ I don't understand the confusion, saar.

Specific impulse of rocket is around 200s, so the SFDR is much much more efficient. Interestingly, the ramjet's specific impulse is around 800 (per wiki), so the SFDR is more efficient than a ramjet (something that I hadn't thought of).

The range is factor of both the specific impulse and how much fuel/oxidiser is carried, no ? I honestly didn't get the calculation you presented above.


Unless someone can correct my understanding of impulse.

SFDR missile is suppose to achieve 1200 sec impulse. It means the fuel + aerodynamics allows it a flight time of 1200 sec. Calculating a straight line theoretical range of travelling at Mach 3 for 20 minutes, gives a range more than 1000 KM!

It is also claimed SFDR is ranged to be 340KM. Even if I consider practical constraints, 1200 sec, should give us more than 340KM range.

So either 1200 sec impulse is wrong or we are understating the range... by a lot.

Does any one believe a Mach 3 missile flying for full 20 minutes, will reach only 340KM?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kakarat » 26 Jul 2019 23:45

nam wrote:
srin wrote:^^^ I don't understand the confusion, saar.

Specific impulse of rocket is around 200s, so the SFDR is much much more efficient. Interestingly, the ramjet's specific impulse is around 800 (per wiki), so the SFDR is more efficient than a ramjet (something that I hadn't thought of).

The range is factor of both the specific impulse and how much fuel/oxidiser is carried, no ? I honestly didn't get the calculation you presented above.


Unless someone can correct my understanding of impulse.

SFDR missile is suppose to achieve 1200 sec impulse. It means the fuel + aerodynamics allows it a flight time of 1200 sec. Calculating a straight line theoretical range of travelling at Mach 3 for 20 minutes, gives a range more than 1000 KM!

It is also claimed SFDR is ranged to be 340KM. Even if I consider practical constraints, 1200 sec, should give us more than 340KM range.

So either 1200 sec impulse is wrong or we are understating the range... by a lot.

Does any one believe a Mach 3 missile flying for full 20 minutes, will reach only 340KM?


MoDAR2018 wrote: boron based sustainer to deliver specific impulse of 1000 - 1200 sec in ramjet

It is clearly mentioned as Specific impulse which is measure of how effectively a rocket uses propellant and not the flight time, srin has explained the same

Your understanding is wrong please correct it

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby nam » 27 Jul 2019 00:24

Kakarat wrote:
MoDAR2018 wrote: boron based sustainer to deliver specific impulse of 1000 - 1200 sec in ramjet

It is clearly mentioned as Specific impulse which is measure of how effectively a rocket uses propellant and not the flight time, srin has explained the same

Your understanding is wrong please correct it


From the wiki link:

The curious unit of seconds to measure the 'goodness' of a fuel/engine combination can be thought of as "How many seconds this propellant can accelerate its own initial mass at 1 gee".[9] The more seconds it can accelerate its own mass, the more delta-V it delivers to the whole system.


Isn't that fundamentally flight time or part of flight time? Granted we don't know at what Mach speed is the 1200 sec defined, however being a Ramjet, it has to be more than Mach 1, before the engine kicks in.

I am thinking it is Mach 1, because 1200 sec flight gives around 350KM range!

I will be happy be corrected, if some one can tell why would seconds be used as unit to depict efficiency, other than to indicate the duration of thrust/power provided by the engine for a standard mass of fuel.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby brar_w » 27 Jul 2019 00:42

SFDR missile is suppose to achieve 1200 sec impulse. It means the fuel + aerodynamics allows it a flight time of 1200 sec.


Specific impulse is a measure of how efficiently the propellant is used not for how long the motor is working .

Posted these before but relevant to bring them back -

Image

Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kakarat » 27 Jul 2019 00:58

nam wrote:
Kakarat wrote:
It is clearly mentioned as Specific impulse which is measure of how effectively a rocket uses propellant and not the flight time, srin has explained the same

Your understanding is wrong please correct it


From the wiki link:

The curious unit of seconds to measure the 'goodness' of a fuel/engine combination can be thought of as "How many seconds this propellant can accelerate its own initial mass at 1 gee".[9] The more seconds it can accelerate its own mass, the more delta-V it delivers to the whole system.


Isn't that fundamentally flight time or part of flight time? Granted we don't know at what Mach speed is the 1200 sec defined, however being a Ramjet, it has to be more than Mach 1, before the engine kicks in.

I am thinking it is Mach 1, because 1200 sec flight gives around 350KM range!

I will be happy be corrected, if some one can tell why would seconds be used as unit to depict efficiency, other than to indicate the duration of thrust/power provided by the engine for a standard mass of fuel.


nam first thing Specific impulse is for a engine not for the entire rocket, but seriously I don't know how to make you understand
The Specific impulse of CE-20 is 443 does it mean that it flies for 443 seconds? It actually flies for 643 seconds. Specific impulse is a measure of engine efficiency and flight duration depends on available fuel and other factors

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby kit » 27 Jul 2019 01:04

Kakarat wrote:
nam wrote:
From the wiki link:



Isn't that fundamentally flight time or part of flight time? Granted we don't know at what Mach speed is the 1200 sec defined, however being a Ramjet, it has to be more than Mach 1, before the engine kicks in.

I am thinking it is Mach 1, because 1200 sec flight gives around 350KM range!

I will be happy be corrected, if some one can tell why would seconds be used as unit to depict efficiency, other than to indicate the duration of thrust/power provided by the engine for a standard mass of fuel.


nam first thing Specific impulse is for a engine not for the entire rocket, but seriously I don't know how to make you understand
The Specific impulse of CE-20 is 443 does it mean that it flies for 443 seconds? It actually flies for 643 seconds. Specific impulse is a measure of engine efficiency and flight duration depends on available fuel and other factors


Specific impulse is for propellant and engine by virtue, what does it have to do with range .. unless you think of only the "engine" blasting off to somewhere, i guess when you talk about range of a rocket/missile its more about quantity of fuel it carries and the velocity the engine can achieve plus burn time that is directly proportional to both !

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby manjgu » 27 Jul 2019 17:44

"Specific impulse is the change in momentum per unit mass for rocket fuels, or rather how much more push accumulates as you use that fuel.

The speed of a rocket depends on thrust (which is roughly the amount of propellant that is thrown out of the back of the rocket and the speed at which that propellant is thrown out) compared to the rocket's weight.

The faster the speed at which propellant is thrown out the back of the rocket, the faster the rocket can travel or the more cargo it can carry. The specific impulse of a rocket propellant is a rough measure of how fast the propellant is ejected out of the back of the rocket. A rocket with a high specific impulse doesn't need as much fuel as a rocket with low specific impulse. The higher the specific impulse, the more push you get for the fuel that rushes out. Or, put another way, specific impulse determines how much fuel you have to use to get a good-sized push."

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby manjgu » 27 Jul 2019 17:47

The curious unit of seconds to measure the 'goodness' of a fuel/engine combination can be thought of as "How many seconds this propellant can accelerate its own initial mass at 1 gee".[9] The more seconds it can accelerate its own mass, the more delta-V it delivers to the whole system.

In other words, given some engine and a pound of a particular fuel, specific impulse measures how long of a time that engine can exert a continuous pound of force (thrust) until fully burning through that pound of propellant. A given mass of a more energy-dense fuel can burn for a longer duration than some less energy-dense fuel made to exert the same force while burning in an engine.[note] Different engine designs burning the same fuel may not be equally efficient at directing their fuel's energy into effective thrust, in the same manner that some car engines are better built than others to maximize the miles-per-gallon of the gasoline they burn.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Katare » 27 Jul 2019 18:03

1200S is pretty impressive, best a rocket can achieve is with Liquid H2 @ 550 seconds. Solid rockets max out just above 200seconds, Jet engines can achieve up-to 3-4000 seconds.

So going from ~200 S to 1200S is 6x more efficient fuel utilization. Since there will be additional dead weight, controls etc that will eat into much of the gains but still one can expect 2x the range of a similar solid rocket missile

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby JayS » 28 Jul 2019 19:33

Katare wrote:1200S is pretty impressive, best a rocket can achieve is with Liquid H2 @ 550 seconds. Solid rockets max out just above 200seconds, Jet engines can achieve up-to 3-4000 seconds.

So going from ~200 S to 1200S is 6x more efficient fuel utilization. Since there will be additional dead weight, controls etc that will eat into much of the gains but still one can expect 2x the range of a similar solid rocket missile


Its not so much as 'more efficient fuel utilization', but simply having fuel with more energy density and the fact that its air-breathing propulsion (unlike solid rocket motors, DR motors don't have to carry oxidizing agent on-board). Boron is pretty much the highest energy density (by volume) material (considering only chemical energy and not nuclear reaction based energy).

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Katare » 29 Jul 2019 17:50

Jay,
This is a side discussion but specific impulse is a unit of efficiency of fuel utilization in a propulsion system. We know that H2 being the smallest molecule achieves the highest efficiency and releases highest chemical energy in oxidation chemistry while there are some crazy fluoride based chemistries (I don’t know about boron but may be possible) that are marginally better than H2 but they are not worth the trouble of enhanced EHS concerns.

Nothing beats air breathing engines since they don’t carry oxidizer or at least not all of it. So that is the rocket propulsion 101 that I know.

For same fuel and over all rocket weight a ducted motor would produce a much longer impulse or carry the same weight a lot longer distance.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby srin » 29 Jul 2019 20:52

JayS wrote:
Katare wrote:1200S is pretty impressive, best a rocket can achieve is with Liquid H2 @ 550 seconds. Solid rockets max out just above 200seconds, Jet engines can achieve up-to 3-4000 seconds.

So going from ~200 S to 1200S is 6x more efficient fuel utilization. Since there will be additional dead weight, controls etc that will eat into much of the gains but still one can expect 2x the range of a similar solid rocket missile


Its not so much as 'more efficient fuel utilization', but simply having fuel with more energy density and the fact that its air-breathing propulsion (unlike solid rocket motors, DR motors don't have to carry oxidizing agent on-board). Boron is pretty much the highest energy density (by volume) material (considering only chemical energy and not nuclear reaction based energy).


Is it true that DR motors don't have an oxidizing agent ? My understanding was that there will be a fuel rich (ie, with lesser oxidizer than in normal rocket) which feeds the exhaust gases into the ramjet (where it then burns completely due to atmospheric oxygen).

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Indranil » 29 Jul 2019 21:58

That is my understanding too.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby JayS » 29 Jul 2019 22:43

well, to be precise, yes, but in much smaller quantity, as compared to a solid rocket for equivalent fuel quantity. The GG sees only partial burning enough to create hot and high pressure gaseous fuel that can be burned in Secondary Combustor. Majority oxygen is provided by the air. And the Boron which carries lion's share of the energy starts burning only in SC.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Katare » 30 Jul 2019 01:15

Yes, if no oxidizer carried on board than, i think it’ll become a cruise missile with specific impulse of > 3000s

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Indrajit » 30 Jul 2019 15:56

The Economic Times · 5 hours ago
India, Russia sign Rs 1,500 crore deal for air-to-air missiles to be used by Su-30.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... nm&ampcf=1

Of all R-27!

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Barath » 30 Jul 2019 17:21

Katare wrote:Jay,
This is a side discussion but specific impulse is a unit of efficiency of fuel utilization in a propulsion system. .....
Nothing beats air breathing engines since they don’t carry oxidizer or at least not all of it. So that is the rocket propulsion 101 that I know. .


Can I suggest a small amendment ....

Nothing chemical beats air br ...for specific impulse
.

Since we have VASIMR, ion propulsion/electric propulsion, light sails, project orion etc..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_impulse#Examples

And since specific impulse is just one of the factors that goes into choosing engine/architecture.

Obviously efficiency in case you have to carry both fuel & oxidizer (rocket) will be less than if we skip the carrying the oxidizer and use it from the atmosphere (eg jet, including ducted ramjets). Of course, a ramjet needs a boost to get it up to ramjet speeds, which could be from a regular jet, rocket etc.. And thrust is important,too - especially for jet take-offs and rocket first stages.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby srai » 30 Jul 2019 17:45

Mi-35 - SANT
Image

Rudra - Helina
Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby JayS » 30 Jul 2019 18:20

Sjha tweets - XRSAM has entered test phase.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby JayS » 30 Jul 2019 18:37

Katare wrote:Jay,
This is a side discussion but specific impulse is a unit of efficiency of fuel utilization in a propulsion system. We know that H2 being the smallest molecule achieves the highest efficiency and releases highest chemical energy in oxidation chemistry while there are some crazy fluoride based chemistries (I don’t know about boron but may be possible) that are marginally better than H2 but they are not worth the trouble of enhanced EHS concerns.

Nothing beats air breathing engines since they don’t carry oxidizer or at least not all of it. So that is the rocket propulsion 101 that I know.

For same fuel and over all rocket weight a ducted motor would produce a much longer impulse or carry the same weight a lot longer distance.


When you say "6x more efficient fuel utilization" it suggests some different way of burning the fuel vis-à-vis solid rockets. In fact exact same fuel as the solid rocket motor can be used in DR and they would burn in pretty much the same way i.e. chemical reaction. The difference factors are presence of Boron and Air-breathing. Just wanted to point that out.

perhaps just semantics. Lets leave it at that.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Katare » 30 Jul 2019 21:19

Jay, we are on same page!

Vips
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Vips » 30 Jul 2019 21:19

Indrajit wrote:The Economic Times · 5 hours ago
India, Russia sign Rs 1,500 crore deal for air-to-air missiles to be used by Su-30.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... nm&ampcf=1

Of all R-27!


India needs to take a lesson from this and make MMRCA award conditional on the winner having to share the source codes and complete readiness to integrate third party missiles and armaments on the platform.

Russia is not ready to let us integrate ASRAAM, I-Derby ER, MBDA on its platforms and thus gets a windfall gain on supplying its missiles which are sub optimal and not best in class. We are stuck with so called improved versions of its R series missiles which are duds and no match to the US/European and Israeli missiles.


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