Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

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ArjunPandit
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ArjunPandit » 01 Oct 2019 22:18

kit wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:^^seems unlikely esp when kazhaks are trying for India's NSG entry. It would not be good from an optics perspective..but then would be better from a perspective "who cares" and esp a good show to china day ...Sniper on twitter had a statement eons back..that Modi wants to be ahead of JLN in every matter...and this is one legacy that will make him immortal like IG and ABV..but i think time hasnt come to bare that fang..


It might as well be, especially if there is a perceived credible threat on the horizon esp from Pakistan.This could very well stop them dead on tracks literally.

evidence suggests otherwise sir...no earth quake signal until an hour back...i doubt a surface test will be done..

kit
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby kit » 01 Oct 2019 22:25

*deleted
Last edited by kit on 02 Oct 2019 02:42, edited 1 time in total.

Iyersan
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Iyersan » 01 Oct 2019 22:31

kit wrote:
Iyersan wrote:https://twitter.com/DrGPradhan/status/1179068792200019973?s=19

Even Dr Gaurav Pradhan says so


link disappeared ?

https://twitter.com/DrGPradhan/status/1 ... 67330?s=19

Its alive

Indranil
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Indranil » 01 Oct 2019 22:38

Sensationalism about such a sensitive topic is terribly irresponsible. Let's put a lid on it here.

No more on this here unless it comes from an official source.


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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby sudeepj » 01 Oct 2019 22:51

darshhan wrote:
sudeepj wrote:
When you have one AAM costing about a million dollars, a three million dollar missile that with a 600km range may actually be cost effective for the initial stages of the conflict.

...
Total life time cost over 25 years = ( $100 million + 25 x $3 million ) = $175 million to deliver 50 Brahmos equivalent strikes.

Cost for 50 Brahmos missiles over 25 years may be a comparable number.

So at least for initial phases of a war when air space may be contested, Brahmos may be a better solution than JDAM type weapons from fighter planes. In later stages, fighter planes may be better.


Such MBA style thinking almost never works in actual warfare.


Such MBA type thinking was actually used by the allies to win WW II. It spawned a whole new subject of engineering, called 'operations research'. It failed in the Vietnam war, because it failed to account for other things that won wars - public morale, information/propaganda, exit strategies etc.

Karthik S
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karthik S » 01 Oct 2019 22:56

Guys, if not nuke, then what else could have been tested? Something like FOAB?

Aditya_V
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 01 Oct 2019 23:22

Better not speculate and let official news if any comes out

darshhan
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby darshhan » 02 Oct 2019 00:30

sudeepj wrote:
darshhan wrote:
Such MBA style thinking almost never works in actual warfare.


Such MBA type thinking was actually used by the allies to win WW II. It spawned a whole new subject of engineering, called 'operations research'. It failed in the Vietnam war, because it failed to account for other things that won wars - public morale, information/propaganda, exit strategies etc.


ok

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Vivasvat » 03 Oct 2019 08:49

Iyersan wrote:https://twitter.com/DrGPradhan/status/1179068792200019973?s=19

Even Dr Gaurav Pradhan says so

Iyersan,
I have known GP personally. I wouldn't trust any words of his without corroboration, ever.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby VinodTK » 04 Oct 2019 06:31

Army inducts Israeli 'tank killers’ till DRDO develops indigenous ones

NEW DELHI: Indian infantry soldiers now finally have a new weapon to destroy advancing enemy tanks on the western front with Pakistan. The Army has begun to induct a limited number of Israeli Spike anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs) to meet immediate operational requirements till the indigenous man-portable “tank killers” being developed by DRDO are ready for induction.

Sources on Thursday said the “first lot” of the 210 Spike missiles, with a dozen launchers, “arrived in India about 10 days ago” as part of the “Army vice chief’s emergency procurement powers” exercised by the force amidst the ongoing heightened tensions with Pakistan.


The Army moved to buy the initial amount of the fire-and-forget Spike ATGMs, which have a strike range of up to 4-km, for around Rs 280 crore after the Jaish-e-Muhammed training facility at Balakot in Pakistan was bombed by Indian Mirage-2000 fighters on February 26.

“The order will be repeated if the man-portable ATGM being developed by DRDO is not ready by next year. We don’t want to be slowed down any longer in plugging our critical operational deficiencies by DRDO,” said an Army source.

DRDO, however, is quite confident about offering its MP-ATGM for “user trials” in 2020 after having conducted three successful trials of the weapon system at the Kurnool range in Andhra Pradesh in early last month.

“The third-generation MP-ATGM, which has state-of-the-art infrared imaging seekers along with advanced avionics, hit the targets mimicking operational tanks in top-attack mode to destroy them with precision at 2.5 km range,” said a DRDO official.

Whether it’s indigenous or Israeli man-portable “tank killers”, the fact remains the 13-lakh strong Army has an alarming over 50% shortage in its “authorised holding” of different kinds of shoulder, vehicle and helicopter-launched ATGMs, which are crucial to halt advancing enemy tanks in the plains as well as “bunker-bursting” across the volatile line of control with Pakistan.


The Army’s existing second-generation Milan-2T (2-km range) and Konkurs (4-km) ATGMs, produced by defence PSU Bharat Dynamics under licence from French and Russian companies, do not have night-fighting capabilities.

The Army for well over a decade has been clamouring to upgrade from these wire-guided ATGMs to third and fourth-generation ones that are top-attack, fire-and-forget and night-capable. In late 2017, India had scrapped a proposed Rs 3,200 crore deal for 8,356 Spike missiles, 321 launchers and 15 simulators that had been first approved by the Defence Acquisitions Council in June 2009.


This was primarily because the DRDO said it could deliver a more technologically advanced MP-ATGM in the next two-three years, as was then reported by TOI. The Army is now keeping its fingers crossed, keen as it is on equipping all its over 380 infantry battalions and 44 mechanised infantry units with third and fourth-generation ATGMs in the long run.

Prem Kumar
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Prem Kumar » 04 Oct 2019 10:05

And btw, for all the conspiracy theorists, including Gaurav Pradhan on Teetar, the Pokhran blasts were nothing but old ordnances being blown up

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Raghunathgb » 04 Oct 2019 21:02

So ASRAAM is only for Jaguar yet. So this quashes rumours on ASRAAM replacing R-40.


Very newsy 1st press conf by new @IAF_MCC Chief:
1. No foreign 5th gen fighter for IAF, only AMCA
2. Addl 36 Rafales not in IAF procurement plan
3. ASRAAM only for Jaguar, no decision yet to standardise across all fighters
4. Fresh Refueller RFI soon

https://t.co/zq5Qsh3Y2M https://t.co/S7eLfdwHKm


ramana
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ramana » 05 Oct 2019 05:39

https://twitter.com/Vakil_Raghu/status/ ... 25216?s=19

Guided bombs by DRDO

I thought Sudarshan was discontinued.

Indranil
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Indranil » 05 Oct 2019 06:02

He is behind the curve by more than one year.

kit
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby kit » 05 Oct 2019 06:26

Prem Kumar wrote:And btw, for all the conspiracy theorists, including Gaurav Pradhan on Teetar, the Pokhran blasts were nothing but old ordnances being blown up



It's more likely to be a simulation of a" tactical nuke "blast background for the exercise . ..exploding all that old ordnance in one go !

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 05 Oct 2019 11:44

And what about Garuthama, the extension kit for HSLD- Garuda?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Barath » 05 Oct 2019 18:19

VinodTK wrote:Army inducts Israeli 'tank killers’ till DRDO develops indigenous ones

...... to meet immediate operational requirements the “first lot” of the 210 Spike missiles, with a dozen launchers, “arrived in India about 10 days ago” as part of the “Army vice chief’s emergency procurement powers” ......

“The order will be repeated if the man-portable ATGM being developed by DRDO is not ready by next year. We don’t want to be slowed down any longer ....


https://www.defenseworld.net/news/25120 ... with_India

According to the media, the sensors of the Spike ATGM could not identify the target when the army was testing the missile at Pokhran, Rajasthan state.

"The missile failed in multiple areas during summer trials. Sensors failed to detect the target during trials carried out in Pokhran," a source familiar with the development said.


Was also discussed here: viewtopic.php?t=7675&start=1280#p2362870 including pertinent fact that the big Spike was killed but the emergency Spike stayed (presumably this one)

Inputs and opinions, please ... This does not appear to be a great look.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby prasannasimha » 06 Oct 2019 00:03

Not to worry. Nag is being used. We want other ATGM's to build up our stock and well we are not operating at present in hot summer when spie etc failed and now Nag works

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Cybaru » 07 Oct 2019 23:29

so it is okay to import external goods even though they fail - but the desi stuff needs to be perfect! Nice!!

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby abhik » 07 Oct 2019 23:47

Ramana saar asked the pertinent question some time back - How many of the emergency purchases are being are from domestic suppliers rather than outright importgiri?

IMO the MoD should start publishing what % of capex was spent designed & made in India/screwdrivier-giri/imports - and set the yearly targets on improving it with the armed forces being responsible for achieving it.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby sudeepj » 08 Oct 2019 01:23

The problem with spike is, it has failed multiple times and in many conditions. A small procurement of Javelin would have made much more sense.. Alternatively, an emergency procurement of Nag which has seen many successes.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 09 Oct 2019 11:33

Javelin would have been a better choice, only reason SPIKE was in play because it had TOT involved per DPP. Anyhow when the seeker has issues, what's the point.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby VikramA » 09 Oct 2019 13:08

sudeepj wrote:The problem with spike is, it has failed multiple times and in many conditions. A small procurement of Javelin would have made much more sense.. Alternatively, an emergency procurement of Nag which has seen many successes.


From news sources spike only failed the desert trails where its uncooled seeker did not do a good job in thar afternoon heat. The low number of missiles suggest that this procurement was for SF for LOC deployment. So seeker should not be problem there.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Raghunathgb » 09 Oct 2019 13:32

VikramA wrote:
sudeepj wrote:The problem with spike is, it has failed multiple times and in many conditions. A small procurement of Javelin would have made much more sense.. Alternatively, an emergency procurement of Nag which has seen many successes.


From news sources spike only failed the desert trails where its uncooled seeker did not do a good job in thar afternoon heat. The low number of missiles suggest that this procurement was for SF for LOC deployment. So seeker should not be problem there.


And NAG was failing in hot deserts only all these years. And nobody gave any concession.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 09 Oct 2019 13:58

Thats the way things go in India, we self flagellate and worry too much about another Indian being successful or profitable, and today beyond any doubt there is a clear that there was/ is an import lobby. It is not in any other country's interest to allow us to develop an MIC and too many Indians are easy to bribe through the NGO mafia.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby pankajs » 09 Oct 2019 14:36

Raghunathgb wrote:
VikramA wrote:
From news sources spike only failed the desert trails where its uncooled seeker did not do a good job in thar afternoon heat. The low number of missiles suggest that this procurement was for SF for LOC deployment. So seeker should not be problem there.


And NAG was failing in hot deserts only all these years. And nobody gave any concession.

That might be true but NAG in its current form is not a replacement for the Spike procurement.

IF goi is to be believed the Spike procurement is limited keeping in view the Indian development in the space. What happens in future will depend on how that development goes.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby kit » 09 Oct 2019 14:45

pankajs wrote:
Raghunathgb wrote:
And NAG was failing in hot deserts only all these years. And nobody gave any concession.

That might be true but NAG in its current form is not a replacement for the Spike procurement.

IF goi is to be believed the Spike procurement is limited keeping in view the Indian development in the space. What happens in future will depend on how that development goes.


Quite right, this is a matter of needs and wants in terms of operational capability NOW. If the forces have and anticipate ( its their job) a requirement that cannot be serviced by local industry they are mandated to procure a similar or a tested and trialled one that suits at least some percentage of their quality requirements., i think its best to leave it there.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kanson » 17 Oct 2019 21:27

I believe Spike that is procured is not for its prime objective - that is Anti-tank.
Fire&Forget capability along with MITL of Spike provides very interesting possibilities for IA in challenging environment.

Have you seen the type of target used in the recent test of Man Portable Nag?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Raghunathgb » 18 Oct 2019 17:10

http://www.sps-aviation.com/news/?id=85 ... -milestone

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has inducted and operationalised the air-launched, extended range BrahMos supersonic cruise missile.

With a kill range of 450 km, this is the IAF's most potent air-launched anti-surface weapon, and its induction is a significant capability milestone.

The missile has been mated with select Sukhoi-30MKI fighters. An estimated 42 Su-30MKIs will be modified to wield the airborne BrahMos. The modified Sukhois will have the capability to carry only one BrahMos at a time as part of a weapons configuration which also includes four RVV AE (R-77) air-to-air medium range missiles, two R-73 air-to-air short range missiles and six 250 kg bombs.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 18 Oct 2019 19:33

Very good news

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 18 Oct 2019 20:27

Now for Astra orders en masse and some accelerated devpt, test fires of Astra Mk2 to have it in service asap.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karthik S » 18 Oct 2019 20:36

OT really hope all these will save yindoos in bharat.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby naird » 18 Oct 2019 20:37

Raghunathgb wrote:The modified Sukhois will have the capability to carry only one BrahMos at a time as part of a weapons configuration which also includes four RVV AE (R-77) air-to-air medium range missiles, two R-73 air-to-air short range missiles and six 250 kg bombs.


Wait - What ? In one sortie - all these stores ?? Thats extremely impressive. Although i am not sure why you would require six 250 KG bombs, when you are planning to fire a stand off missile.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 18 Oct 2019 20:44

naird wrote:
Raghunathgb wrote:The modified Sukhois will have the capability to carry only one BrahMos at a time as part of a weapons configuration which also includes four RVV AE (R-77) air-to-air medium range missiles, two R-73 air-to-air short range missiles and six 250 kg bombs.


Wait - What ? In one sortie - all these stores ?? Thats extremely impressive. Although i am not sure why you would require six 250 KG bombs, when you are planning to fire a stand off missile.


Strike platforms engaged in offensive counter-air, defense busting ops carry a mix of Precision weapons & area weapons.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby srai » 19 Oct 2019 02:23

^^^

Stand-off 100km SAAW (2-4 x quad packs) would be a better option :twisted:

Su-30MKI DEAD operations (stand-off)
  • 4 x NGARM 100km+
  • 4 x SAAW quad-pack (16 SAAWs) 100km

Destruction of the radars (using NGARM) along with SAM launchers and support vehicles (using SAAW).

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby dinesha » 19 Oct 2019 17:33

Between October 23 and 25
Image
Image

dinesha
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby dinesha » 19 Oct 2019 17:50

Looks like K4 test ranging about 3200 KM from Submerged Pontoon off Visakhapatnam Cost

Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby pkudva » 19 Oct 2019 19:31

dinesha wrote:Looks like K4 test ranging about 3200 KM from Submerged Pontoon off Visakhapatnam Cost

Image


This makes me to think, can this be a desended Trajectory Test of K5?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Arun.prabhu » 19 Oct 2019 19:49

A squadron of MKIs, each armed with a Brahmos and BVR and WVR missiles would nicely deny the Indian Ocean to any Chinese fleet. Nice.

Karan M wrote:
naird wrote:
Wait - What ? In one sortie - all these stores ?? Thats extremely impressive. Although i am not sure why you would require six 250 KG bombs, when you are planning to fire a stand off missile.


Strike platforms engaged in offensive counter-air, defense busting ops carry a mix of Precision weapons & area weapons.


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